SK125OCT042016:ID
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Saroj Kasaju
Oct 4, 2016, 4:59:03 AM10/4/16
to efloraofindia, J.M. Garg
Dear Members,
Sharing some pictures for ID shot at the Chandtagiri Hill Kathmandu on 19 September 2016 at 8200 ft.
Could it be Clematis buchananiana DC. ??
If so why color of flower is different?
Thank you.
Saroj Kasaju
Nayan Singh
Oct 4, 2016, 9:12:11 AM10/4/16
to Saroj Kasaju, efloraofindia, J.M. Garg
Nice pics with great details
Nayan.
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chrischa...@btinternet.com
Oct 4, 2016, 11:35:57 PM10/4/16
to efloraofindia, jmg...@gmail.com
My first offering on Nepal. I am not as familiar with its flora as Ladakh or the NW Himalaya and as with the whole of the Himalayan foothills, the lower the elevation one goes, especially into sub-tropical and tropical plants, my knowledge rapidly diminishes! Nevertheless, I have visited Nepal on a number of occasions and know something of its flora. This Clematis is certainly not C.buchananiana. I think you will find this is Clematis acutangula - it is not recorded in 'An Enumeration of the Flowering Plants of Nepal' Vol 2, 1979) nor 'Flora of Kathmandu Valley' (1986). Hooker knew the plant as is in FBI - from Khasia Hills (now Meghalaya). Do not know of any images on internet. The pressed specimens in Kew herbarium will not help much.
If circumstances permit, I shall contribute more about Nepalese flora.
J.M. Garg
Oct 13, 2016, 7:18:09 AM10/13/16
to efloraofindia, Saroj Kasaju, chrischa...@btinternet.com
Thanks a lot, Chadwell ji.
Catalogue of Life gives it (Clematis acutangula Hook. fil. & Thomson) as a syn. of Clematis ranunculoides Franch.
Images of this look different at the following links:
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With regards,
J.M.Garg
J.M.Garg
'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'
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Saroj Kasaju
Oct 13, 2016, 9:01:25 AM10/13/16
to J.M. Garg, efloraofindia, C CHADWELL
Dear all,
Clematis acutangula is not listed in Nepal in books as well as link :
Another, the flower color and leaves do not match at all as per the links:
and
As such, request expert for the verdict.
Thank you,
Saroj Kasaju
C CHADWELL
Oct 13, 2016, 11:18:50 AM10/13/16
to J.M. Garg, efloraofindia, Saroj Kasaju
Dear All
Thanks for letting me know. This name was supplied to me some years back. I had assumed they had expertise, so never
checked further. I am not a specialist in the genus Clematis but will check further incl. with the person who provided the name.
Yes, the plant photographed does not match the images of Clematis ranunculoides you provided links to.
A lesson to all - always double-check IF you can!
From: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>
To: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>; chrischa...@btinternet.com
Sent: Thursday, 13 October 2016, 12:17
Subject: Fwd: SK125OCT042016:ID
J.M. Garg
Oct 20, 2016, 3:08:34 AM10/20/16
to efloraofindia, Saroj Kasaju, chrischa...@btinternet.com
Forwarding again for Id assistance please.
Some earlier relevant feedback:
My first offering on Nepal. I am not as familiar with its flora as Ladakh or the NW Himalaya and as with the whole of the Himalayan foothills, the lower the elevation one goes, especially into sub-tropical and tropical plants, my knowledge rapidly diminishes! Nevertheless, I have visited Nepal on a number of occasions and know something of its flora. This Clematis is certainly not C.buchananiana. I think you will find this is Clematis acutangula - it is not recorded in 'An Enumeration of the Flowering Plants of Nepal' Vol 2, 1979) nor 'Flora of Kathmandu Valley' (1986). Hooker knew the plant as is in FBI - from Khasia Hills (now Meghalaya). Do not know of any images on internet. The pressed specimens in Kew herbarium will not help much. If circumstances permit, I shall contribute more about Nepalese flora. |
-- Chris Chadwell
|
Thanks a lot, Chadwell ji. Catalogue of Life gives it (Clematis acutangula Hook. fil. & Thomson) as a syn. of Clematis ranunculoides Franch. Images of this look different at the following links: |
Clematis acutangula is not listed in Nepal in books as well as link : Another, the flower color and leaves do not match at all as per the links: |
|
Thanks for letting me know. This name was supplied to me some years back. I had assumed they had expertise, so never checked further. I am not a specialist in the genus Clematis but will check further incl. with the person who provided the name. Yes, the plant photographed does not match the images of Clematis ranunculoides you provided links to. A lesson to all - always double-check IF you can! Best Wishes, Chris Chadwell
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Saroj Kasaju
Oct 20, 2016, 4:25:10 AM10/20/16
to J.M. Garg, efloraofindia, C CHADWELL
Dear all,
I believe ID from Mr. Chadwell is correct.
Sending some links for further reference.
Thank you.
Saroj Kasaju
C CHADWELL
Oct 20, 2016, 8:04:51 AM10/20/16
to J.M. Garg, efloraofindia, Saroj Kasaju
As per my e-mail earlier today when I indicated my error naming this as
C.acutangula, it is in fact Clematis confusa Grey-Wilson which has been
reduced by W.T. Wang to Clematis connata var. confusa, an accepted name
in 'The Plant List' and COL.
I do have reservations about this, given how different the flowers seem cf. what
I understand to be more typical C.connata and its restricted
geographical range. I also wonder about differences in the 'connate part'.
Inevitably there will be differences of opinion/interpretation.
But given the seemingly minimal differences used to distinguish between some species
in certain genera, I wonder about this but I am not a plant taxonomist.
As to which source of information is more reliable, I am new to using these, so shall
scrutinise further and see what others think of them.
Come what may, none will be perfect and subject to change!
It really must be a nightmare for most 'mortals' with no particular background in plant
identification to face so many changes and different interpretations....
I recollect remarking (like others before me) to someone taking an interest in Nepal flora
whilst visiting the Natural History Museum herbarium in London that, "In many ways identifying
plants is as much an art form as a science".
We are all trying incl. Mr Garg to make things more scientific, consistent and reliable but this has never
been straightforward.......
From: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>
To: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>; chrischa...@btinternet.com
Sent: Thursday, 20 October 2016, 8:08
Subject: [efloraofindia:254260] Fwd: SK125OCT042016:ID
Subject: [efloraofindia:254260] Fwd: SK125OCT042016:ID
Forwarding again for Id assistance please.
Some earlier relevant feedback:
My first offering on Nepal. I am not as familiar with its flora as Ladakh or the NW Himalaya and as with the whole of the Himalayan foothills, the lower the elevation one goes, especially into sub-tropical and tropical plants, my knowledge rapidly diminishes! Nevertheless, I have visited Nepal on a number of occasions and know something of its flora. This Clematis is certainly not C.buchananiana. I think you will find this is Clematis acutangula - it is not recorded in 'An Enumeration of the Flowering Plants of Nepal' Vol 2, 1979) nor 'Flora of Kathmandu Valley' (1986). Hooker knew the plant as is in FBI - from Khasia Hills (now Meghalaya). Do not know of any images on internet. The pressed specimens in Kew herbarium will not help much. If circumstances permit, I shall contribute more about Nepalese flora. -- Chris Chadwell |
Thanks a lot, Chadwell ji. Catalogue of Life gives it (Clematis acutangula Hook. fil. & Thomson) as a syn. of Clematis ranunculoides Franch. Images of this look different at the following links: |
Clematis acutangula is not listed in Nepal in books as well as link : |
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Saroj Kasaju
Oct 20, 2016, 9:03:40 AM10/20/16
to C CHADWELL, efloraofindia, J. M. Garg
Well said Dear Mr. Chadwell!
On 20 Oct 2016 5:54 p.m., "C CHADWELL" <chrischa...@btinternet.com> wrote:
I think the identification is now correct (though one always must exhibit an element of caution) it isreally a question of the name! Using an 'old' synonym does not mean it is a misidentification.As I quip when talking about identifying plants in the wild or cultivation during my lectures,"the plants themselves could not care less what we decide to call them or that we have changedour minds".
Cc: efloraofindia <indiantreepix@googlegroups.com>; C CHADWELL <chrischadwell261@btinternet.com>
Sent: Thursday, 20 October 2016, 9:25
Subject: Re: SK125OCT042016:ID
Dear all,I believe ID from Mr. Chadwell is correct.Sending some links for further reference.Thank you.Saroj Kasaju
On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 12:53 PM, J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com> wrote:
Forwarding again for Id assistance please.Some earlier relevant feedback:
Saroj Kasaju
Mar 2, 2017, 10:01:49 AM3/2/17
to C CHADWELL, efloraofindia, J. M. Garg
Dear All,
Same plant on 2 March, 2017.
Thank you.
Saroj Kasaju
On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 6:48 PM, Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com> wrote:
Well said Dear Mr. Chadwell!
On 20 Oct 2016 5:54 p.m., "C CHADWELL" <chrischadwell261@btinternet.com> wrote:
I think the identification is now correct (though one always must exhibit an element of caution) it isreally a question of the name! Using an 'old' synonym does not mean it is a misidentification.As I quip when talking about identifying plants in the wild or cultivation during my lectures,"the plants themselves could not care less what we decide to call them or that we have changedour minds".
J.M. Garg
Mar 2, 2017, 11:34:57 PM3/2/17
to Saroj Kasaju, chrischa...@btinternet.com, efloraofindia
Nice fruiting images.
Saroj Kasaju
Sep 17, 2024, 3:01:46 AM9/17/24
to J.M. Garg, efloraofindia
I think we should follow the link I have sent you earlier regarding the Clematis
genus about the sps. from Nepal. In the latest book by KK shrestha et all and the online
database 'Flora of Nepal' from the RBGE have mentioned Clematis confusa and
Clematis barbellata as the accepted names and var as synonyms.
And most of the databases have synonymised the variation species.
Saroj Kasaju
Nice fruiting images.
Thank you.Saroj Kasaju
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