Thistle For ID : Uttarakhand : 160413 : AK-1

[Aarti S. Khale]

Thistle growing wild in the Jim Corbett area on 24/3/13.

Id please.

Aarti

[Gurcharan Singh]

Some leaves please. May be a Saussurea.

-- 

Dr. Gurcharan Singh

Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089

http://www.gurcharanfamily.com/ 
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

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[Nidhan Singh]

Yes, can be Saussurea candicans....

--
Regards,

Dr. Nidhan Singh

Assistant Professor
Department of Botany
I.B. (PG) College
Panipat-132103 Haryana
Ph.: 09416371227

[Aarti S. Khale]

Gurcharan ji, Nidhan ji,

Thanks for a possible id.

I found this picture of the leaves.

Regards,

Aarti

[D.S Rawat]

Saussurea heteromala.

DSRawat Pantnagar

[Gurcharan Singh]

S. heteromella is current name for S. candicans

-- 

Dr. Gurcharan Singh

Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089

http://www.gurcharanfamily.com/ 
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

--

[Aarti S. Khale]

Gurcharan ji, Nidhan ji, Rawat ji,

Thanks for the id.

Regards,

Aarti

[J.M. Garg]

Forwarding again for Id confirmation or otherwise please.

Some earlier relevant feedback:

Some leaves please. May be a Saussurea. -- Dr. Gurcharan Singh

Yes, can be Saussurea candicans....

-- Regards, Dr. Nidhan Singh

I found this picture of the leaves. Regards, Aarti
Saussurea heteromala. DSRawat Pantnagar

S. heteromella is current name for S. candicans -- Dr. Gurcharan Singh

S. heteromella (The Plant List & GRIN) & S. candicans (The Plant list & GRIN) are different as per GRIn & The Plant List.- from me.

--

 
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With regards,
J.M.Garg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1

'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'
The whole world uses my Image Resource of more than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise): http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg. You can also use them for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image.

For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group (largest in the world): http://groups.google.co.in/group/indiantreepix (more than 2085 members & 1,50,000 messages on 31/3/13) or Efloraofindia website: https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/ (with a species database of more than 8000 species).

Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of India'. 

[Aarti S. Khale]

Dr Gurinder ji,

Thanks for validation.

Regards,

Aarti

On Wed, May 1, 2013 at 6:08 AM, gurinder goraya <guri...@hotmail.com> wrote:

It is Saussurea heteromala.
 
Regards,

Dr. G. S. Goraya, IFS
Addl. Pr. Chief Conservator of Forests,
(Research & Training),
Himachal Pradesh Forest Department,
Sundernagar - 175 019 (Dist. Mandi, Himachal Pradesh)
 
Ph. 09418025036; 01907-264113 (O) 


 

---

Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2013 13:01:04 +0530
Subject: Fwd: [efloraofindia:152965] Thistle For ID : Uttarakhand : 160413 : AK-1
From: jmg...@gmail.com
To: indian...@googlegroups.com
CC: sing...@gmail.com; tab...@gmail.com; sahani...@gmail.com; amit...@gmail.com; prajn...@gmail.com; mithuc...@gmail.com; shreya....@gmail.com; abesh...@gmail.com; balka...@gmail.com; nidhans...@gmail.com; res...@gmail.com; mand...@gmail.com; mach...@gmail.com; tigeru...@gmail.com; pka...@gmail.com; dattaben...@gmail.com; drdsrawat...@gmail.com; aarti...@gmail.com

[gurinder goraya]

It is Saussurea heteromala.
 
Regards,

Dr. G. S. Goraya, IFS
Addl. Pr. Chief Conservator of Forests,
(Research & Training),
Himachal Pradesh Forest Department,
Sundernagar - 175 019 (Dist. Mandi, Himachal Pradesh)
 
Ph. 09418025036; 01907-264113 (O) 


 

---

Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2013 13:01:04 +0530
Subject: Fwd: [efloraofindia:152965] Thistle For ID : Uttarakhand : 160413 : AK-1
From: jmg...@gmail.com
To: indian...@googlegroups.com
CC: sing...@gmail.com; tab...@gmail.com; sahani...@gmail.com; amit...@gmail.com; prajn...@gmail.com; mithuc...@gmail.com; shreya....@gmail.com; abesh...@gmail.com; balka...@gmail.com; nidhans...@gmail.com; res...@gmail.com; mand...@gmail.com; mach...@gmail.com; tigeru...@gmail.com; pka...@gmail.com; dattaben...@gmail.com; drdsrawat...@gmail.com; aarti...@gmail.com

[surajitkoley]

Very nice flower again, Aarti Ji.

Regards,

surajit

[Aarti S. Khale]

Surajit ji,

Thank you.

Regards,

Aarti

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[Gurcharan Singh]

Some one needs to investigate and go at the root of confusion.

Clarke had in 1876 described Saussurea candicans Clarke, described in Flora of British India with Cirsium heteromallum Spreng and Carduus heteromallus as synonyms. He also mentioned Aplotaxis candicans DC. as first synonym. It seems a combination was made before Clarke by Sch.Bip. in 1846.

Flora of Himalayas as well as Enumeration of Flowering Plants of Nepal consider Saussurea candicans (DC.) Sch.Bip. as synonym of Saussurea heteromalla  (D. Don) Hand.-Mazz., ; Symb. Sin. 7: 1152 (1936), citing also as synonyms Aplotaxis candicans DC. and Cirsium heteromallum Spreng. This plant is now correctly known as Himalaiella heteromalla (D. Don) Raab-Straube, 2003.

In above publications it seems there is no mention of Saussurea candicans Clarke, which is listed as distinct species, apparantly the synonyms mentioned in FBI were not correctly assigned.

It now seems that Saussurea candicans Clarke and Himalaiella heteromalla (D. Don) Raab-Straube are two very distinct plants, belonging to two different genera as per GRIN and The Plant List.

The Million dollar question is what is our common Himalayan plant (and the above one) and whether one or both grow in Himalayas. And if both occur here how to differentiate them. Not to forget that description given by Clarke for S. candicans is based on West Himalayan specimens.

-- 

Dr. Gurcharan Singh

Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089

http://www.gurcharanfamily.com/ 

http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/  

--
 
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[J.M. Garg]

Forwarding again for Id confirmation or otherwise please.

Some earlier relevant feedback:

Some leaves please. May be a Saussurea. -- Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Yes, can be Saussurea candicans.... -- Regards, Dr. Nidhan Singh
I found this picture of the leaves. Regards, Aarti
Saussurea heteromala. DSRawat Pantnagar
S. heteromella is current name for S. candicans -- Dr. Gurcharan Singh

S. heteromella (The Plant List & GRIN) & S. candicans (The Plant list & GRIN) are different as per GRIn & The Plant List.- from me.

It is Saussurea heteromala.

Regards, Dr. G. S. Goraya, IFS

Some one needs to investigate and go at the root of confusion.

Clarke had in 1876 described Saussurea candicans Clarke, described in Flora of British India with Cirsium heteromallum Spreng and Carduus heteromallus as synonyms. He also mentioned Aplotaxis candicans DC. as first synonym. It seems a combination was made before Clarke by Sch.Bip. in 1846. Flora of Himalayas as well as Enumeration of Flowering Plants of Nepal consider Saussurea candicans (DC.) Sch.Bip. as synonym of Saussurea heteromalla (D. Don) Hand.-Mazz., ; Symb. Sin. 7: 1152 (1936), citing also as synonyms Aplotaxis candicans DC. and Cirsium heteromallum Spreng. This plant is now correctly known as Himalaiella heteromalla (D. Don) Raab-Straube, 2003. In above publications it seems there is no mention of Saussurea candicans Clarke, which is listed as distinct species, apparantly the synonyms mentioned in FBI were not correctly assigned. It now seems that Saussurea candicans Clarke and Himalaiella heteromalla (D. Don) Raab-Straube are two very distinct plants, belonging to two different genera as per GRIN and The Plant List. The Million dollar question is what is our common Himalayan plant (and the above one) and whether one or both grow in Himalayas. And if both occur here how to differentiate them. Not to forget that description given by Clarke for S. candicans is based on West Himalayan specimens.

Dr. Gurcharan Singh

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Aarti S. Khale <aarti...@gmail.com>
Date: 16 April 2013 09:50
Subject: [efloraofindia:152140] Thistle For ID : Uttarakhand : 160413 : AK-1
To: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>

Thistle growing wild in the Jim Corbett area on 24/3/13.

Id please.

Aarti

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With regards,
J.M.Garg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1

'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'
The whole world uses my Image Resource of more than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise): http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg. You can also use them for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image.

For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group (largest in the world): http://groups.google.co.in/group/indiantreepix (more than 2085 members & 1,53,000 messages on 30/4/13) or Efloraofindia website: https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/ (with a species database of more than 8000 species).

[D.S Rawat]

Now 

Lipschitziella heteromalla (D.Don) Kasana & A.K.Pandey

https://www.gbif.org/species/10891759

DSRawat Pantnagar

[J.M. Garg]

Ok, Rawat ji.

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With regards,
J. M. Garg

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/3095ecf3-db61-4327-9bb7-18a1dc11241fn%40googlegroups.com.

[Aarti S. Khale]

Rawat Ji,

Thanks for the correction in the name.

Regards,

Aarti

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