Balsaminaceae, Geraniaceae and Oxalidaceae Week: Geraniaceae-Geranium collinum from Kashmir-GS-19

[Gurcharan Singh]

Posting again as I missed proper subject line in earlier post

Geranium collinum Steph. ex Willd., Sp. Pl. 3:705. 1800. 

Perennial herb up to 80 cm tall with elongated horizontal rhizome, stems ascending to erect with retrorse hairs and some spreading glandular hairs; stipules lanceolate, 6-8 mm long; leaves opposite, petiole up to 12 cm long in lower leaves, upper shorter; blade rounded, 2-8 cm broad,5-7 lobed to about middle, segments wedge-shaped  further 3-5-lobed; flowers 25-30 mm across, lilac to lilac-purple, usually in 2-flowered cluster on up to 15 cm long ascending to recurved peduncle; pedicel up to 5 cm long; bracteoles linear-lanceolate; sepals 5-9 mm long, elliptic-oblong, with 1-2 mm long mucro, pubescent; petals 12-18 mm long, obovate, rounded to retuse at tip; filaments triangular and hairy at base; mericarps pubescent, with up to 2.5 cm long beak.

Photographed from Khillenmarg, Kashmir, about 3000 m altitude

-- 

Dr. Gurcharan Singh

Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089

http://www.gurcharanfamily.com/ 
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/

[Prashant Awale]

Thanks   Gurcharan Singh ji for showing us so many sp. of Geranium. You have got fantastic collection of Geranium sp. Thanks again.
Regards
Prashant

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[Nidhan Singh]

Thanks Sir for showing..perhaps we also recorded this during VOF Tour, but I do not have "eligible" pictures..that's why only enjoying..
--
Regards,

Dr. Nidhan Singh

Assistant Professor
Department of Botany
I.B. (PG) College
Panipat-132103 Haryana
Ph.: 09416371227

[chrischa...@btinternet.com]

I currently cannot put a firm name on this - shall comment further in due course, though is often difficult with so little information to go on when only a small number of photos are taken.  KINDLY NOTE THAT THE 4TH IMAGE DOES NOT TALLY WITH THE FIRST THREE (assuming the third image does represent the lower leaves of the first two) - the flower looks like a variant of Geranium wallichianum to me.  This species has widely-varying flower colour.  There is a form in cultivation in the UK known as 'Buxton's Variety (sometimes but incorrectly, as 'Buxton's Blue).  A colleague of mine came across a variant similar to this on the Rohtang in 1989.  G.wallichianum is recorded from up to 3300m, so may well be found on Khelanmarg (albeit towards its upper limit altitude-wise).  The stipules are not shown in any of the photos, which in the case of G.wallichianum are usually diagnostic.  It is not unknown to have more than one species of Geranium growing near to each other/amongst each other, meaning care needs to be taken to distinguish between them.  

Given that geraniums readily hybridise in cultivation one has to wonder about the possibility of hybrids when two geranium species meet in the wild?  I have yet to see the possibility of hybrids mentioned in any postings on eFI in relation to possible identification of any genera (nor apomictic genera like Taraxacum).  True, it is often hard enough to try and recognise which species a specimen belongs to, let alone consider hybrids!

Further to my recent post about photographing Geraniums.  I am far from certain that the true Geranium collinum is found in the Himalaya. This is a complicated matter.  Let me try to explain. It has certainly been thought to in the past. Stewart e.g. listed this species from the Khardong La in his 'The Flora of Ladakh' (1916-17) - I have not seen the pressed specimen but from the altitude and location, I would think this is probably what I understand to be G.regelii.  He also listed G.grandiflorum (which is now Geranium himalayense).  The images above do not come close to my understanding of either of these species - nor G,.pratense subsp. stewartianum a specimen of which I saw near Sonamarg which Peter Yeo at Cambridge identified as this in 1987.  Dickore & Klimes (2005) which is the most up-to-date checklist for Ladakh do not include G.collinum only G. himalayense, pratense, regelii and sibiricum. 

 

In 'The Valley of Flowers' G.pratense, collinum, wallichianum and grevilleanum (now G.lambertii) are listed.

 

In the Notes Yeo supplied me, he draws attention to the problematical G.collinum-pratense-himalayense alliance.  He considered this was particularly critical in the NW Himalaya with high quality pressed specimens needed (nowadays these can be supplemented and sometimes replaced by high quality digital images (provided the advice given below is followed).  This alliance has pink to blue flowers (sometimes white) in which the stamen-tip and stigmas are never blackish-purple...

 

I consider it will be helpful for keen photographers, willing to make an additional effort, to know which parts of Geranium to photograph.  Having images of such parts of each geranium will greatly aid identification and enhance our understanding of the genus in the Himalaya - and perhaps you can help with the locating and identification of a species new-to-science!

 

 

PHOTOGRAPHING GERANIUMS:

 

IF only the first one or two flowers have come out don't bother to collect as the form of inflorescence will not be evident.

The rootstock is important; get enough to show whether compact or creeping, or annual.  You can photograph the base of the plant which should provide this information.  Clearly, one requires permission from the authorities to uproot a plant.  There is still  a need and indeed role for the collection of pressed specimens for herbaria in India but that is primarily the domain of staff of botanic gardens/ institutions.
 
 In the early stages of flowering look out for the best-developed unripe fruits available.
 
 If fruit is ripe try to include both dehisced and undehisced states.
 
 If the fruits are falling with the seeds inside them, collect some (many geraniums disperse their seed explosively but some seed is often retained).
 
Include some loose petals when pressing (detach if necessary).  Expose stamens to show filament shape and hairs by taking 2 or 3 sepals off a flower from which petals have recently dropped.
 
Smoothing out one or two leaves and flowers as you close the press may be helpful; a few separately pressed basal and lower/middle stem leaves are often useful.
 
Wilted specimens can be very misleading.
 
Notes should be taken as to flower posture, colour and patterning of petals, colour of stigmas, anthers and distal parts of filaments (not necessary if your photos show these).
 
And don't forget to ensure the stipules are clearly shown - something that would have been obviously in pressed specimens, so not mentioned above by Yeo.

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks, Chadwell ji

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[Gurcharan Singh]

Thanks a lot Dr. Chadwell for your very critical analysis. I assure you all images are from the same plant, I have even checked time of photography. Why it looks different to you I think is because it shows upper view of flowers, others lower view. 

   I have cropped original image 1 to show stipules and bracts, and similar from G. wallichianum. You may compare to see clear differences.

   To me G. wallichianum is a very distinct species, not to be easily confused with others. 

Dr. Gurcharan Singh

Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089

http://www.gurcharanfamily.com/ 
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/

On Mon, Nov 21, 2016 at 5:38 PM, J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks, Chadwell ji

[C CHADWELL]

Dear Dr Singh

Fair enough but the main point is that the Geranium photographed at Khelamarg does not tally with what I understand to be G.lambertii.

Not sure if you have seen the images I sent of a form of this in cultivation in the UK - I will forward the images I sent to Mr Garg.

Whilst I agree that G.wallichianum is quite distinctive, more than one geranium can get mixed up and I still think this has happened in images posted taken in Uttarakhand. 

I am getting tired now and need to get some sleep.  I will provide a link to what I mean in the above paragraph and then forward the images of

Geranium lambertii.

Will also initially respond to your comment re: Geranium pratense. 

Best Wishes,

Chris Chadwell

81 Parlaunt Road 
SLOUGH
SL3 8BE
UK

www.shpa.org.uk

---

From: Gurcharan Singh <sing...@gmail.com>
To: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>
Cc: C CHADWELL <chrischa...@btinternet.com>; efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 22 November 2016, 4:38
Subject: Re: [efloraofindia:257113] Re: Balsaminaceae, Geraniaceae and Oxalidaceae Week: Geraniaceae-Geranium collinum from Kashmir-GS-19

Thanks a lot Dr. Chadwell for your very critical analysis. I assure you all images are from the same plant, I have even checked time of photography. Why it looks different to you I think is because it shows upper view of flowers, others lower view. 

   I have cropped original image 1 to show stipules and bracts, and similar from G. wallichianum. You may compare to see clear differences.

   To me G. wallichianum is a very distinct species, not to be easily confused with others. 

Dr. Gurcharan Singh

Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089

http://www.gurcharanfamily.com/ 
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/

On Mon, Nov 21, 2016 at 5:38 PM, J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks, Chadwell ji

On 19 Nov 2016 6:28 pm, "chrischadwell261@btinternet. com" <chrischadwell261@btinternet. com> wrote:

I currently cannot put a firm name on this - shall comment further in due course, though is often difficult with so little information to go on when only a small number of photos are taken.  KINDLY NOTE THAT THE 4TH IMAGE DOES NOT TALLY WITH THE FIRST THREE (assuming the third image does represent the lower leaves of the first two) - the flower looks like a variant of Geranium wallichianum to me.  This species has widely-varying flower colour.  There is a form in cultivation in the UK known as 'Buxton's Variety (sometimes but incorrectly, as 'Buxton's Blue).  A colleague of mine came across a variant similar to this on the Rohtang in 1989.  G.wallichianum is recorded from up to 3300m, so may well be found on Khelanmarg (albeit towards its upper limit altitude-wise).  The stipules are not shown in any of the photos, which in the case of G.wallichianum are usually diagnostic.  It is not unknown to have more than one species of Geranium growing near to each other/amongst each other, meaning care needs to be taken to distinguish between them.  

Given that geraniums readily hybridise in cultivation one has to wonder about the possibility of hybrids when two geranium species meet in the wild?  I have yet to see the possibility of hybrids mentioned in any postings on eFI in relation to possible identification of any genera (nor apomictic genera like Taraxacum).  True, it is often hard enough to try and recognise which species a specimen belongs to, let alone consider hybrids!

Further to my recent post about photographing Geraniums.  I am far from certain that the true Geranium collinum is found in the Himalaya. This is a complicated matter.  Let me try to explain. It has certainly been thought to in the past. Stewart e.g. listed this species from the Khardong La in his 'The Flora of Ladakh' (1916-17) - I have not seen the pressed specimen but from the altitude and location, I would think this is probably what I understand to be G.regelii.  He also listed G.grandiflorum (which is now Geranium himalayense).  The images above do not come close to my understanding of either of these species - nor G,.pratense subsp. stewartianum a specimen of which I saw near Sonamarg which Peter Yeo at Cambridge identified as this in 1987.  Dickore & Klimes (2005) which is the most up-to-date checklist for Ladakh do not include G.collinum only G. himalayense, pratense, regelii and sibiricum. 

 

In 'The Valley of Flowers' G.pratense, collinum, wallichianum and grevilleanum (now G.lambertii) are listed.

 

In the Notes Yeo supplied me, he draws attention to the problematical G.collinum-pratense-himalayens e alliance.  He considered this was particularly critical in the NW Himalaya with high quality pressed specimens needed (nowadays these can be supplemented and sometimes replaced by high quality digital images (provided the advice given below is followed).  This alliance has pink to blue flowers (sometimes white) in which the stamen-tip and stigmas are never blackish-purple...

[C CHADWELL]

Thanks but the main issue is what species this geranium is.  I remain uncertain. 

Are you familiar with Geranium kashmirianum?  In another post I have requested a description of this (and ideally

images) and how this is distinguished from other geraniums in Kashmir?

Are you familiar with G.kishtvariense and how this is distinguished from other geraniums in Kashmir.

Are you familiar with G.swatense and how it is disntiguished from other geraniums.

Until I am comfortable recognising all the geraniums recorded from Kashmir, shall struggle to be sure of images posted and

whether many represent a taxon not previously recorded.

As it now appears that what was G.pratense in Kashmir is now G.clarkei?  What about Geranium collinum?

Are you familiar with G.himalayense?  Are you familiar with G.regelii?

I would welcome seeing any geraniums you have photographed in the NW Himalaya.

Best Wishes,

Chris Chadwell

81 Parlaunt Road 
SLOUGH
SL3 8BE
UK

www.shpa.org.uk

---

From: Gurcharan Singh <sing...@gmail.com>
To: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>
Cc: C CHADWELL <chrischa...@btinternet.com>; efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 22 November 2016, 4:38
Subject: Re: [efloraofindia:257113] Re: Balsaminaceae, Geraniaceae and Oxalidaceae Week: Geraniaceae-Geranium collinum from Kashmir-GS-19

Thanks a lot Dr. Chadwell for your very critical analysis. I assure you all images are from the same plant, I have even checked time of photography. Why it looks different to you I think is because it shows upper view of flowers, others lower view. 

   I have cropped original image 1 to show stipules and bracts, and similar from G. wallichianum. You may compare to see clear differences.

   To me G. wallichianum is a very distinct species, not to be easily confused with others. 

Dr. Gurcharan Singh

Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089

http://www.gurcharanfamily.com/ 
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/

On Mon, Nov 21, 2016 at 5:38 PM, J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks, Chadwell ji

On 19 Nov 2016 6:28 pm, "chrischadwell261@btinternet. com" <chrischadwell261@btinternet. com> wrote:

I currently cannot put a firm name on this - shall comment further in due course, though is often difficult with so little information to go on when only a small number of photos are taken.  KINDLY NOTE THAT THE 4TH IMAGE DOES NOT TALLY WITH THE FIRST THREE (assuming the third image does represent the lower leaves of the first two) - the flower looks like a variant of Geranium wallichianum to me.  This species has widely-varying flower colour.  There is a form in cultivation in the UK known as 'Buxton's Variety (sometimes but incorrectly, as 'Buxton's Blue).  A colleague of mine came across a variant similar to this on the Rohtang in 1989.  G.wallichianum is recorded from up to 3300m, so may well be found on Khelanmarg (albeit towards its upper limit altitude-wise).  The stipules are not shown in any of the photos, which in the case of G.wallichianum are usually diagnostic.  It is not unknown to have more than one species of Geranium growing near to each other/amongst each other, meaning care needs to be taken to distinguish between them.  

Given that geraniums readily hybridise in cultivation one has to wonder about the possibility of hybrids when two geranium species meet in the wild?  I have yet to see the possibility of hybrids mentioned in any postings on eFI in relation to possible identification of any genera (nor apomictic genera like Taraxacum).  True, it is often hard enough to try and recognise which species a specimen belongs to, let alone consider hybrids!

Further to my recent post about photographing Geraniums.  I am far from certain that the true Geranium collinum is found in the Himalaya. This is a complicated matter.  Let me try to explain. It has certainly been thought to in the past. Stewart e.g. listed this species from the Khardong La in his 'The Flora of Ladakh' (1916-17) - I have not seen the pressed specimen but from the altitude and location, I would think this is probably what I understand to be G.regelii.  He also listed G.grandiflorum (which is now Geranium himalayense).  The images above do not come close to my understanding of either of these species - nor G,.pratense subsp. stewartianum a specimen of which I saw near Sonamarg which Peter Yeo at Cambridge identified as this in 1987.  Dickore & Klimes (2005) which is the most up-to-date checklist for Ladakh do not include G.collinum only G. himalayense, pratense, regelii and sibiricum. 

 

In 'The Valley of Flowers' G.pratense, collinum, wallichianum and grevilleanum (now G.lambertii) are listed.

 

In the Notes Yeo supplied me, he draws attention to the problematical G.collinum-pratense-himalayens e alliance.  He considered this was particularly critical in the NW Himalaya with high quality pressed specimens needed (nowadays these can be supplemented and sometimes replaced by high quality digital images (provided the advice given below is followed).  This alliance has pink to blue flowers (sometimes white) in which the stamen-tip and stigmas are never blackish-purple...

 

I consider it will be helpful for keen photographers, willing to make an additional effort, to know which parts of Geranium to photograph.  Having images of such parts of each geranium will greatly aid identification and enhance our understanding of the genus in the Himalaya - and perhaps you can help with the locating and identification of a species new-to-science!

 

 

PHOTOGRAPHING GERANIUMS:

 

IF only the first one or two flowers have come out don't bother to collect as the form of inflorescence will not be evident.

The rootstock is important; get enough to show whether compact or creeping, or annual.  You can photograph the base of the plant which should provide this information.  Clearly, one requires permission from the authorities to uproot a plant.  There is still  a need and indeed role for the collection of pressed specimens for herbaria in India but that is primarily the domain of staff of botanic gardens/ institutions.
 
 In the early stages of flowering look out for the best-developed unripe fruits available.
 
 If fruit is ripe try to include both dehisced and undehisced states.
 
 If the fruits are falling with the seeds inside them, collect some (many geraniums disperse their seed explosively but some seed is often retained).
 
Include some loose petals when pressing (detach if necessary).  Expose stamens to show filament shape and hairs by taking 2 or 3 sepals off a flower from which petals have recently dropped.
 
Smoothing out one or two leaves and flowers as you close the press may be helpful; a few separately pressed basal and lower/middle stem leaves are often useful.
 
Wilted specimens can be very misleading.
 
Notes should be taken as to flower posture, colour and patterning of petals, colour of stigmas, anthers and distal parts of filaments (not necessary if your photos show these).
 
And don't forget to ensure the stipules are clearly shown - something that would have been obviously in pressed specimens, so not mentioned above by Yeo.

 

On Saturday, March 9, 2013 at 3:56:25 AM UTC, Gurcharan Singh wrote:

Posting again as I missed proper subject line in earlier post

Geranium collinum Steph. ex Willd., Sp. Pl. 3:705. 1800. 

Perennial herb up to 80 cm tall with elongated horizontal rhizome, stems ascending to erect with retrorse hairs and some spreading glandular hairs; stipules lanceolate, 6-8 mm long; leaves opposite, petiole up to 12 cm long in lower leaves, upper shorter; blade rounded, 2-8 cm broad,5-7 lobed to about middle, segments wedge-shaped  further 3-5-lobed; flowers 25-30 mm across, lilac to lilac-purple, usually in 2-flowered cluster on up to 15 cm long ascending to recurved peduncle; pedicel up to 5 cm long; bracteoles linear-lanceolate; sepals 5-9 mm long, elliptic-oblong, with 1-2 mm long mucro, pubescent; petals 12-18 mm long, obovate, rounded to retuse at tip; filaments triangular and hairy at base; mericarps pubescent, with up to 2.5 cm long beak.

Photographed from Khillenmarg, Kashmir, about 3000 m altitude

-- 

Dr. Gurcharan Singh

Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089

http://www.gurcharanfamily.com / 
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg 45/

--

[C CHADWELL]

Thanks but the main issue is what species this geranium is.  I remain uncertain. 

Are you familiar with Geranium kashmirianum?  In another post I have requested a description of this (and ideally

images) and how this is distinguished from other geraniums in Kashmir?

Are you familiar with G.kishtvariense and how this is distinguished from other geraniums in Kashmir.

Are you familiar with G.swatense and how it is disntiguished from other geraniums.

Until I am comfortable recognising all the geraniums recorded from Kashmir, shall struggle to be sure of images posted and

whether many represent a taxon not previously recorded.

As it now appears that what was G.pratense in Kashmir is now G.clarkei?  What about Geranium collinum?

Are you familiar with G.himalayense?  Are you familiar with G.regelii?

I would welcome seeing any geraniums you have photographed in the NW Himalaya. 

Best Wishes,

Chris Chadwell

81 Parlaunt Road 
SLOUGH
SL3 8BE
UK

www.shpa.org.uk

---

From: Gurcharan Singh <sing...@gmail.com>
To: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>
Cc: C CHADWELL <chrischa...@btinternet.com>; efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 22 November 2016, 4:38

Subject: Re: [efloraofindia:257413] Re: Balsaminaceae, Geraniaceae and Oxalidaceae Week: Geraniaceae-Geranium collinum from Kashmir-GS-19

Thanks a lot Dr. Chadwell for your very critical analysis. I assure you all images are from the same plant, I have even checked time of photography. Why it looks different to you I think is because it shows upper view of flowers, others lower view. 

   I have cropped original image 1 to show stipules and bracts, and similar from G. wallichianum. You may compare to see clear differences.

   To me G. wallichianum is a very distinct species, not to be easily confused with others. 

Dr. Gurcharan Singh

Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089

http://www.gurcharanfamily.com/ 
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/

On Mon, Nov 21, 2016 at 5:38 PM, J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks, Chadwell ji

On 19 Nov 2016 6:28 pm, "chrischadwell261@btinternet. com" <chrischadwell261@btinternet. com> wrote:

I currently cannot put a firm name on this - shall comment further in due course, though is often difficult with so little information to go on when only a small number of photos are taken.  KINDLY NOTE THAT THE 4TH IMAGE DOES NOT TALLY WITH THE FIRST THREE (assuming the third image does represent the lower leaves of the first two) - the flower looks like a variant of Geranium wallichianum to me.  This species has widely-varying flower colour.  There is a form in cultivation in the UK known as 'Buxton's Variety (sometimes but incorrectly, as 'Buxton's Blue).  A colleague of mine came across a variant similar to this on the Rohtang in 1989.  G.wallichianum is recorded from up to 3300m, so may well be found on Khelanmarg (albeit towards its upper limit altitude-wise).  The stipules are not shown in any of the photos, which in the case of G.wallichianum are usually diagnostic.  It is not unknown to have more than one species of Geranium growing near to each other/amongst each other, meaning care needs to be taken to distinguish between them.  

Given that geraniums readily hybridise in cultivation one has to wonder about the possibility of hybrids when two geranium species meet in the wild?  I have yet to see the possibility of hybrids mentioned in any postings on eFI in relation to possible identification of any genera (nor apomictic genera like Taraxacum).  True, it is often hard enough to try and recognise which species a specimen belongs to, let alone consider hybrids!

Further to my recent post about photographing Geraniums.  I am far from certain that the true Geranium collinum is found in the Himalaya. This is a complicated matter.  Let me try to explain. It has certainly been thought to in the past. Stewart e.g. listed this species from the Khardong La in his 'The Flora of Ladakh' (1916-17) - I have not seen the pressed specimen but from the altitude and location, I would think this is probably what I understand to be G.regelii.  He also listed G.grandiflorum (which is now Geranium himalayense).  The images above do not come close to my understanding of either of these species - nor G,.pratense subsp. stewartianum a specimen of which I saw near Sonamarg which Peter Yeo at Cambridge identified as this in 1987.  Dickore & Klimes (2005) which is the most up-to-date checklist for Ladakh do not include G.collinum only G. himalayense, pratense, regelii and sibiricum. 

 

In 'The Valley of Flowers' G.pratense, collinum, wallichianum and grevilleanum (now G.lambertii) are listed.

 

In the Notes Yeo supplied me, he draws attention to the problematical G.collinum-pratense-himalayens e alliance.  He considered this was particularly critical in the NW Himalaya with high quality pressed specimens needed (nowadays these can be supplemented and sometimes replaced by high quality digital images (provided the advice given below is followed).  This alliance has pink to blue flowers (sometimes white) in which the stamen-tip and stigmas are never blackish-purple...

 

I consider it will be helpful for keen photographers, willing to make an additional effort, to know which parts of Geranium to photograph.  Having images of such parts of each geranium will greatly aid identification and enhance our understanding of the genus in the Himalaya - and perhaps you can help with the locating and identification of a species new-to-science!

 

 

PHOTOGRAPHING GERANIUMS:

 

IF only the first one or two flowers have come out don't bother to collect as the form of inflorescence will not be evident.

The rootstock is important; get enough to show whether compact or creeping, or annual.  You can photograph the base of the plant which should provide this information.  Clearly, one requires permission from the authorities to uproot a plant.  There is still  a need and indeed role for the collection of pressed specimens for herbaria in India but that is primarily the domain of staff of botanic gardens/ institutions.
 
 In the early stages of flowering look out for the best-developed unripe fruits available.
 
 If fruit is ripe try to include both dehisced and undehisced states.
 
 If the fruits are falling with the seeds inside them, collect some (many geraniums disperse their seed explosively but some seed is often retained).
 
Include some loose petals when pressing (detach if necessary).  Expose stamens to show filament shape and hairs by taking 2 or 3 sepals off a flower from which petals have recently dropped.
 
Smoothing out one or two leaves and flowers as you close the press may be helpful; a few separately pressed basal and lower/middle stem leaves are often useful.
 
Wilted specimens can be very misleading.
 
Notes should be taken as to flower posture, colour and patterning of petals, colour of stigmas, anthers and distal parts of filaments (not necessary if your photos show these).
 
And don't forget to ensure the stipules are clearly shown - something that would have been obviously in pressed specimens, so not mentioned above by Yeo.

 

On Saturday, March 9, 2013 at 3:56:25 AM UTC, Gurcharan Singh wrote:

Posting again as I missed proper subject line in earlier post

Geranium collinum Steph. ex Willd., Sp. Pl. 3:705. 1800. 

Perennial herb up to 80 cm tall with elongated horizontal rhizome, stems ascending to erect with retrorse hairs and some spreading glandular hairs; stipules lanceolate, 6-8 mm long; leaves opposite, petiole up to 12 cm long in lower leaves, upper shorter; blade rounded, 2-8 cm broad,5-7 lobed to about middle, segments wedge-shaped  further 3-5-lobed; flowers 25-30 mm across, lilac to lilac-purple, usually in 2-flowered cluster on up to 15 cm long ascending to recurved peduncle; pedicel up to 5 cm long; bracteoles linear-lanceolate; sepals 5-9 mm long, elliptic-oblong, with 1-2 mm long mucro, pubescent; petals 12-18 mm long, obovate, rounded to retuse at tip; filaments triangular and hairy at base; mericarps pubescent, with up to 2.5 cm long beak.

Photographed from Khillenmarg, Kashmir, about 3000 m altitude

-- 

Dr. Gurcharan Singh

Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089

http://www.gurcharanfamily.com / 
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg 45/

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[J.M. Garg]

Thanks, Chadwell ji

On 24 Nov 2016 10:38 pm, "C CHADWELL" <chrischa...@btinternet.com> wrote:

Thanks but the main issue is what species this geranium is.  I remain uncertain. 

Are you familiar with Geranium kashmirianum?  In another post I have requested a description of this (and ideally

images) and how this is distinguished from other geraniums in Kashmir?

Are you familiar with G.kishtvariense and how this is distinguished from other geraniums in Kashmir.

Are you familiar with G.swatense and how it is disntiguished from other geraniums.

Until I am comfortable recognising all the geraniums recorded from Kashmir, shall struggle to be sure of images posted and

whether many represent a taxon not previously recorded.

As it now appears that what was G.pratense in Kashmir is now G.clarkei?  What about Geranium collinum?

Are you familiar with G.himalayense?  Are you familiar with G.regelii?

I would welcome seeing any geraniums you have photographed in the NW Himalaya.

Best Wishes,

Chris Chadwell

81 Parlaunt Road 
SLOUGH
SL3 8BE
UK

www.shpa.org.uk

---

From: Gurcharan Singh <sing...@gmail.com>
To: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>

Cc: C CHADWELL <chrischadwell261@btinternet.com>; efloraofindia <indiantreepix@googlegroups.com>

[J.M. Garg]

To me these images appear similar to those at Geranium pratense from Kashmir

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With regards,
J.M.Garg

'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'

Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia. 

For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group (largest in the world- around 2800 members & 2,65,000 messages on 31.3.17) or Efloraofindia website (with a species database of more than 12,000 species & 2,50,000 images).

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[Gurcharan Singh]

After comparing images further, especially more finally dissected leaves, I think that this is G. clarkei (syn: G. kashmirianum).

On Sunday, June 11, 2017 at 4:06:35 PM UTC+5:30 JM Garg wrote:

To me these images appear similar to those at Geranium pratense from Kashmir

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Gurcharan Singh <sing...@gmail.com>
Date: 9 March 2013 at 09:26
Subject: [efloraofindia:148776] Balsaminaceae, Geraniaceae and Oxalidaceae Week: Geraniaceae-Geranium collinum from Kashmir-GS-19
To: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>

Posting again as I missed proper subject line in earlier post

Geranium collinum Steph. ex Willd., Sp. Pl. 3:705. 1800. 

Perennial herb up to 80 cm tall with elongated horizontal rhizome, stems ascending to erect with retrorse hairs and some spreading glandular hairs; stipules lanceolate, 6-8 mm long; leaves opposite, petiole up to 12 cm long in lower leaves, upper shorter; blade rounded, 2-8 cm broad,5-7 lobed to about middle, segments wedge-shaped  further 3-5-lobed; flowers 25-30 mm across, lilac to lilac-purple, usually in 2-flowered cluster on up to 15 cm long ascending to recurved peduncle; pedicel up to 5 cm long; bracteoles linear-lanceolate; sepals 5-9 mm long, elliptic-oblong, with 1-2 mm long mucro, pubescent; petals 12-18 mm long, obovate, rounded to retuse at tip; filaments triangular and hairy at base; mericarps pubescent, with up to 2.5 cm long beak.

Photographed from Khillenmarg, Kashmir, about 3000 m altitude

-- 

Dr. Gurcharan Singh

Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089

http://www.gurcharanfamily.com/ 
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/

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