old and new names

[Michele Roman]

I am a bit confused about old and new scientific names.  I thought Corynza canadensis was the old taxon and Erigeron canadensis the new name.  Then, I read this:

http://www.inaturalist.org/taxa/160843-Conyza-canadensis


Also, how can I find out about whether a taxa has already been flagged and a swap taking place.  In the case of Corynza and Erigeron canadensis, I see observations under both names.

Thanks in advance for the explanation.
Michele

[bouteloua]

To view whether a swap has already taken place, click Taxonomic changes in the Extras section on the left sidebar of a species page, e.g. Conyza canadensis, which shows changes that I just made. To find inactive species, search for the species, then click "Show active and inactive taxa" on the sidebar.

[Arleigh Birchler]

Is there a place that gives general information of the taxonomic philosophy and/or authorities used?

[bouteloua]

http://www.inaturalist.org/pages/curator+guide#changes

[Michele Roman]

Thanks for the explanation on the "how to."  What I am finding, however is that according to the Jepson interchange Conyza would be inactive and Erigeron the new taxon.
http://ucjeps.berkeley.edu/cgi-bin/get_cpn.pl?2311 while the iNat species information says the opposite.

On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 8:30 AM, bouteloua <cassi...@gmail.com> wrote:

http://www.inaturalist.org/pages/curator+guide#changes

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Michele

[bouteloua]

Welp, taxonomy's tricky like that. I don't live near California, so I've never encountered/used Jepson. In any regard, if it's decided to switch back to Erigeron, should be easy enough.

[Charlie Hohn]

Yeah, taxonomy is definitely a bit of a mess in general.  For California plant Jepson is used as the authority, and for New England plants we use Flora of Nova Anglicae.  This covers a surprising number of the plants of the US and Canada, but not all of them.  There are also a few that occur in both with different names.  So, we can only do the best we can.  I recently messed up one taxa (merged in a name and then found the name is still valid in Europe) and am still sorting that out with Ken-ichi's help.

Nevermind even more confusing taxa like insects.

In general, I think the most important thing is that synonyms are linked.  IE, it doesn't matter as much which name you use between Erigeron and Conyza, as it does for them to be linked in the database so entering either one goes to the same plant.

[Michele Roman]

Yes, Charlie, cross reference would be nice indeed.

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Michele

[Charlie Hohn]

Once they are merged, it should automatically correct the id to the current iNat-specified id.  if the one it is correcting to is believed wrong that is a different issue.

[Michele Roman]

The problem is to find WHICH is the current ID.  Personally, I think Wikipedia linked article is wrong and Jepson Manual right but I am not a professional botanist hence the post, in the first place. :-)

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Michele

[Charlie Hohn]

yeah, we would go by Jepson in most if not all cases.  I saw that Bouteloua has already changed it back to Conyza though, so I think this issue is fixed

[Michele Roman]

No, it is not fixed.  If we go by Jepson the current name is Erigeon canadensis.  And, since I screw up once, in a swap, I decided not to modify taxa, just to flag it the best I know how. :-)

[Arleigh Birchler]

I like the fact that iNaturalist allows me to use the botanical name I want to use, and link it to the botanical name iNaturalist wants to use.  Apparently their name gets automatically updated when there is a change, but the name I enter stays the same until I change it.

[Michele Roman]

Nothing happens automatically. There are a few magicians behind the curtain, Arleigh. ;-)

[Ken-ichi]

Well, we don't manually update every identification. When a taxon
change gets committed, all IDs of the old taxa get updated to the new
taxa when possible (swaps and merges), but not if people have opted
out of automatic changes and not when it's impossible to be sure what
to do (splits).

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[Michele Roman]

So your answer did not respond to my initial question on the "correct" or "current" taxa for this plant.

[Ken-ichi]

Well, as our policies state
(http://www.inaturalist.org/pages/curator+guide#policies) we try to
follow Calflora for California plants, and they use Erigeron
canadensis over Conyza canadensis. Cassi cited The Plant List as her
source for changing from Erigeron to Conyza, which is accurate, but
The Plant List hasn't been updated since 2010, which is pre-Jepson 2.
GoBotany, which is based on Flora Nova Angliae, another more recent
flora, also supports a placement in Erigeron over Conyza, so I think
we should go with Erigeron. I'll swap it back.

Taxonomy is subjective, parochial, and often flat out insane. I mean,
Jepson Interchange seems to have rejected Dodecatheon in favor of
Primula! Argh! I'm going to wait to see if Calflora adopts it before
making that change, though.

On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 11:22 PM, Michele Roman

[Arleigh Birchler]

Here is all I have on it (Alan Weakley, "Flora of the Southeast", Sep 2012 draft):

A genus of about 60 species, herbs, shrubs, and trees, of temperate, subtropical, and tropical regions. Recent molecular studies have indicated the likely polyphyly of Conyza and its close relationship with Erigeron; the ultimate circumscription of these genera is in doubt (Nesom 2000b, Noyes 2000). References: Strother in FNA (2006b); Cronquist (1980)=SE; Nesom (2000b).

   ***   ***   ***

Conyza canadensis (Linnaeus) Cronquist var. canadensis, Common Horseweed. Old fields, disturbed areas, gardens. July-November. S. Canada south through nearly all of the United States to tropical America. [= C, G, K, Pa, SE, W, WH; = Erigeron canadensis Linnaeus var. canadensis – RAB; < C. canadensis – FNA; = Erigeron canadensis – F; = Leptilon canadense (Linnaeus) Britton – S; < Erigeron canadensis – WV]

Conyza canadensis (Linnaeus) Cronquist var. pusilla (Nuttall) Cronquist, Southern Horseweed. Dunes, old fields, disturbed areas. (May-) July-December. Se. MA and CT west to s. IN, south to FL and TX, and south into tropical America. [= C, G, K, Pa, SE, W, WH; = Erigeron canadensis Linnaeus var. pusillus (Nuttall) Boivin – RAB; < C. canadensis – FNA; = Erigeron pusillus Nuttall – F; = Leptilon pusillum (Nuttall) Britton – S; = Conyza parva Cronquist]

I could try to find out why Dr Weakley has not changed it.  It is possible that he already has, but he has not made another draft available in awhile.  I think he is finishing the Flora up and is close to publication.

[Michele Roman]

Thanks for the explanation, Ken-ichi!

[bouteloua]

I didn't know that, thanks!