UDP Discovery - is it needed?

[Jiri Culak]

Hi all

this is mostly for SW developers. 

I am still missing the fun of using Thetis / PowerSDR SW as I run clean VPN (WireGuard) which seems to be the most %effective VPN. It works like all other OSI L3 VPNs so my home network, or phone etc. runs an subnet (10.x or whatever) and my LAN on my VHF/HF QTH run 192.168.1.x    I am able to ping, ssh.... whatever is needed BUT broadcast. 

I can do QUISK, SparkSDR even SDR Console takes static IP and only does discovery when searching initially for Hermes. I know that openhpsdr protocol 1 / 2 uses the discovery (port 63? and it looks for 127.0.0.1 and default IP etc. and probes protocl version etc.) but would there be an option to just selecet Protocol 1 and static IP? 

If that is configured in Thetis, it still complains and Wireshark shows it still does discovery....

Now that the question - is it needed? Can it be turned off or modified to allow remote users over L3?

I purchased FTTH with VDSL ( 200 + 150mbps) and I am using aggregation protocls also so I am able to run 3 x 384kHz slices so bandwithb is not a problem, but I would love to avoid using L2TP or PSeudoWire....

73 Jiri OK2IT

PS I played a t with small HF PAs with different tranzistors and found that for 13.8V, IRF530/IRF510 works better than let's say MRF186 etc. (too small gain on 12V)

If interested I can do tnread.

[Pez]

Hi Jiri, 

I think you will find that the latest HL2 Beta 5 now includes the options you need to do what you want. (With more updates and improvements planned for the future as well). 

Reid might be able to comment on whether you specific use case is catered for, but I can now use Thetis remotely over WAN or VPN, with directed UDP. Nothing flash is needed. This is all thanks to the fantastic new changes Reid has been making in the latest Beta 5. 

73

Pez

[DL1YCF]

A „Discovery“ is needed since the reply contains information about the board type etc.

A „Broadcast“ discovery is super if the radio is on the same subnet, since you need not know its IP address.
Remember using DHCP, this address will vary over time.

„directed UDP“ is necessary if you cross network segments. Unfortunately the original HPSDR standard
insists on broadcast, so there are radios which won’t respond to a directed UDP discovery packet
(but the HL2 does).

P.P.S.: MRF150 with 50 Volt is super for HL2, since you easily get > 100 Watt out of < 5 Watt in.

I get 120 Watt out with my BLA350 (2* MRF150, 50 Volt) although is has a 3 dB attenuator in the
input path

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[ron.ni...@gmail.com]

My iOS SDR app is currently not capable of discovery at all, but seem to operate my HL2's just fine.  The app just sends the Metis start command and commences streaming UDP data to a pre-configured IP address.

My home networks assigns a fixed DHCP IP address to my HL2's known Mac addresses.  And I use the HL2's known self-assigned IP when working portable.  So I only need to run discovery (hl2_tcp -d on a Pi or Mac) when operating on someone else's network to find the HL2's new IP, which I then use to configure my iOS SDR app.  

I have an older iOS testflight beta test app that performs HL2 discovery, but it only works on older iOS devices running very old iOS versions.  Recent iOS versions seem to block generic iOS apps from doing UDP broadcasting, which Apple states is for network privacy reasons.  So the default broadcast method of discovery seems to be impossible on new iPhones and iPads.  But I wonder if multicast UDP might work instead of broadcast for discovery?

73, Ron, n6ywu

[Jiří Čulák]

Hello Pez,Ron,DL1YCF etc.

 

I understand why OpenHPSDR protocol used broadcast for board type etc.(well, still if I want to use OpenHPSDR Android App g0orx and HL2, it wont TX as it complains about Pennylane or simillr RX path boards not being present.

What we missed out is that other software pieces work just fine – Quisk, SpardSDR, SDR Console…  so it’s not needed. On my QTH where the main HL2 is based, I have a DHCP Server with address reservations and I also will switch to static ,as all three HL2 seem to have same MAC address (I know this can be changed).

 

Anyway, since i.e. SDR Console does discovery, and then adds definition, you can do the same – Thetis allows to select Static IP (if you use more than one device on network).

I am not a big fan of forwarding broadcast and multicast over VPNs as where I have HL2, there are things like IGMP, multiple TV casts etc.and I would have to go into multiple vlans, bonjour gw fwd, etc…

 

SO someone mentioned directed UDP discovery….

HL2 Beta5 (are we talking about gateware or how that would work? I thought that Thetis looks at what subnets you have and then sends on x.x.x.255 broadcast and listens for replies.

 

And yes, my aim was always to use the quiet QTH with good internet connectivity (finally) and running the HL2 in exactly same way, like I am sitting next to it (minus the local CW keyer etc.)

 

Anyway, thanks a lot for replies. I hope that option to select manual, no discovery , static IP with “tickboxes” to allow proper hw config (n2adr or PA enable/disable…. Etc.)will be possible to get implemented into Thetis / PowerSDR….   In worst case I will just have to stick to SDRConsole now and single RX slice.

 

BR Jiri

 

Odesláno z aplikace Pošta pro Windows

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[Pez]

Hello Jiri,

Thetis HL2 BETA 5 has changed the Thetis game for remoting. It now works (functionally, at least) just like SDR Console, SparkSDR for the purpose you describe. It is a big change to how Thetis has worked in the past.  

Please see here: https://groups.google.com/g/hermes-lite/c/35wcFqGSvwY/m/dkSkQDe5BQAJ

73

[Pez]

Jiri,

To answer your other question: this is not gateware (the HL2 Gateware already supports directed UDP). Thetis HL2 Beta 5 is just a specially modified version of Thetis, made by Reid Gi8TME/Mi0BOT, that includes these new IP features. Follow the instructions (and tick the correct boxes) as mentioned in Reids post https://groups.google.com/g/hermes-lite/c/35wcFqGSvwY/m/dkSkQDe5BQAJ  - and you should be working just as you have been with SDR Console and SparkSDR already. Good luck! 

73

[Jiří Čulák]

Excellent!

That is exactly what I was after 😊

I will give it ago, first on Windows, then I hope I can also compile on Linux… or later on macOS. 😊

 

Odesláno z aplikace Pošta pro Windows

 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/hermes-lite/62852100-9006-421e-926d-83ebb1e0ac5an%40googlegroups.com.

 

[DL1YCF]

This is not state of the art.

a) how does the iOS SDR app know it’t a HL2?

b) how des the iOS SDR app known the HL2 is not yet connected

   from somewhere else?

The answer to both questions is in the discovery reply packet.

[ron.ni...@gmail.com]

If one needs the information in the discovery reply packet from a known HL2, one doesn't need to do a broadcast UDP discovery.  An app can send the UDP discovery packet to a single known IP address without having to do a broadcast to the entire subnet, and the HL2 will reply.  Many routers can be configured to assign a known IP address to the HL2's MAC address, via DHCP.  73, Ron, n6ywu