GPS Displacement Data to EW?

[Erol Kalkan]

Has anyone worked with bringing GPS displacement data to EW?

I remember from last year’s EW course that there were some efforts having a new module for GPS data.

Any input will be greatly appreciated.

Erol

[Paul Friberg]

Hi Erol,

There is a geojson2ew module that can bring 1Hz streaming solutions into EW as a Tracebuf2 from various sources (the USGS supports this module's output from the Pasadena group). There is also work at PRSN (Puerto Rico Seismic Network) by Francisco Hernandez that allows other systems to send TBUF2 from GPS recievers into Earthworm. Francisco has put his stuff on github, but it requires QT to compile currently. Eventually we will include Francisco's code into EW proper once we get it to compile without Qt.

Cheers,

Paul

--
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Earthworm Community Forum" group.

To post to this group, send an email to earthworm_forum@googlegroups.com

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to
earthworm_forum+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com

For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/earthworm_forum?hl=en

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Earthworm Community Forum" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to earthworm_forum+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

===================================
Paul Friberg   p.fr...@isti.com
CEO/Seismologist
ISTI==Instrumental Software Technologies, Inc.
Phone 845.256.9290  FAX 845.256.9299   Mobile +1.914.489.4888

[Erol Kalkan]

Thanks Paul, I appreciate the input. I will check with our folks at Pasadena to see what kind of receivers they use and export process they have. 

Cheers,

Erol 

On Monday, April 2, 2018 at 12:03:15 PM UTC-7, Paul Friberg wrote:

Hi Erol,

There is a geojson2ew module that can bring 1Hz streaming solutions into EW as a Tracebuf2 from various sources (the USGS supports this module's output from the Pasadena group). There is also work at PRSN (Puerto Rico Seismic Network) by Francisco Hernandez that allows other systems to send TBUF2 from GPS recievers into Earthworm. Francisco has put his stuff on github, but it requires QT to compile currently. Eventually we will include Francisco's code into EW proper once we get it to compile without Qt.

Cheers,

Paul

On Mon, Apr 2, 2018 at 12:34 PM, Erol Kalkan <kalk...@gmail.com> wrote:

Has anyone worked with bringing GPS displacement data  to EW?

I remember from last year’s EW course that there were some efforts having a new module for GPS data.

Any input will be greatly appreciated.

Erol

--
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Earthworm Community Forum" group.

To post to this group, send an email to earthwo...@googlegroups.com

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to

earthworm_for...@googlegroups.com

For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/earthworm_forum?hl=en

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Earthworm Community Forum" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to earthworm_for...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Jean-Marie Saurel]

Hello Erol,

GNSS receivers usually doesn't send a direct displacement output but
rather GPS phase readings or at best GPS phase corrections.
Then you need to have a software that receives those data and, together
with satellite trajectory data and other stuff compute the displacement
vector (East, North, Up) in real-time.

I think that it's to this software that you are going to connect to, in
order displacement values into Earthworm.
Based on Paul's answer, I assume that the software in use at Pasadena
output those values in geojson, which is why they made this module.
PRSN might use a different GNSS software with a different output, which
would explain why they have a different module.

At this step, and this is a more general reflexion, I don't think there
is an existing standard to stream real-time displacement values out of
the various processing software that are in use today (gipsy, RT-Track,
Trimble, Leica ....).
Maybe something around the NTRIP protocol, which is used for real-time
data exchange of GNSS receiver data.
NTRIP could perhaps transport some displacement value.

From my point of vue, it would be great if the Earthworm community,
together with the growing real-time GNSS community, could bring some
protocol and/or standard for displacement data exchange.

Regards.

Jean-Marie SAUREL.

Le 02.04.2018 21:10, Erol Kalkan a écrit :
> Thanks Paul, I appreciate the input. I will check with our folks at
> Pasadena to see what kind of receivers they use and export process
> they have. 
>
> Cheers,
>
> Erol 
>
> On Monday, April 2, 2018 at 12:03:15 PM UTC-7, Paul Friberg wrote:
>
>> Hi Erol,
>>

>> There is a _geojson2ew_ module that can bring 1Hz streaming

>>> http://groups.google.com/group/earthworm_forum?hl=en [1]

>>>
>>> ---
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the
>>> Google Groups "Earthworm Community Forum" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from
>>> it, send an email to earthworm_for...@googlegroups.com.

>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout [2].

>>
>> --
>>
>> ===================================
>> Paul Friberg   p.fr...@isti.com
>> CEO/Seismologist
>> ISTI==Instrumental Software Technologies, Inc.
>> Phone 845.256.9290  FAX 845.256.9299   Mobile +1.914.489.4888
>

> --
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "Earthworm Community Forum" group.
>
> To post to this group, send an email to
> earthwo...@googlegroups.com
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to
> earthworm_for...@googlegroups.com
>
> For more options, visit this group at

> http://groups.google.com/group/earthworm_forum?hl=en [3]

>
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "Earthworm Community Forum" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,

> send an email to earthworm_for...@googlegroups.com [4].
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout [5].
>
>
> Links:
> ------
> [1] http://groups.google.com/group/earthworm_forum?hl=en
> [2] https://groups.google.com/d/optout
> [3] http://groups.google.com/group/earthworm_forum?hl=en
> [4] mailto:earthworm_for...@googlegroups.com
> [5] https://groups.google.com/d/optout

--
--------------------------------------
Institut de Physique du Globe de Paris
Observatoires Volcanologiques et Sismologiques
+33 1 83 95 74 37
1 rue Jussieu
75238 Paris cédex 5

[Erol Kalkan]

Thanks Jean-Marie,

Great information. I also got some additional input from John Langbein from USGS; he mentioned about 

Septentrio PolarX5. Apparently, this particular model can process the raw GPS/GNSS data on board. 

Regards,

Erol  

[Francisco Hernandez]

Hello everyone,

I'm currently also testing various things. Here in PR we use Trimble GPSs with General Serial Output Format (GSOF Messages), which can include X, Y, Z, dx, dy, dz, and velocity data. This can be put into EW using the geojson2ew (and a python script I made) or a small module I created gsof2ew.

However my concern was that it was proprietary so I created a modified version of the BKG Ntrip Cient (BNC) which can connect directly to EW and transmit either X, Y, Z or dx, dy, dz data at the millimeter resolution in order to get these you need a Binex or Rinex stream and the clock and corrections from IGS. Latency is usually 10-12 seconds which is pretty good. You could if you wished subscribe to the UNAVCO Casters and have these all as trace data in an EW system. Here's a screenshot of it working:

The code can be found here:

https://github.com/Fran89/gsof2ew

https://github.com/Fran89/BKG-EW-Version-

https://github.com/Fran89/GPS2EW

DISCLAIMER:

This code is funcional, but experimental there are various things to add and improve and crashes are not unheard of. I hope to maybe present some of this stuff at SSA/LACSC in Miami next month. Hopefully the community can also improve on the code here and we can create a way that GPS data can be used and stored alongside seismic data (custom mini-seed headers for RTGPS data?).

Francisco.

[Erol Kalkan]

Hi Francisco,

Thanks for your input. I am new to GPS measurements. When you mentioned that the latency is usually 10-12 seconds. Can you explain this further? My plan is to use acceleration data in EW in conjunction with GPS displacement data, but both should have same timing. 

Erol 

[Francisco H.]

Well if you are to use the BNC it takes some amount of times for clocks and corrections to be calculated and streamed to the NTrip client which is around 10-12 seconds. Then some ms go by for the real-time stream to be corrected and sent out to EW. However if you use Trimbles GSOF solution it is corrected at the GPS level and the hardware only streams solved positions, this is usually way faster and comparable to a seismometer, perhaps. The GSOF is a package that is bought as an add-on to current GPS stations, I am unaware of how much it costs. In the following months I'll try to do some comparisons between them (maybe mseed to sac for correlations? I am unsure).

I guess if you use the BNC solution you'll have to use delayed acceleration data and have a near-real time capability. I also know UNAVCO is using some software also by Trimble that provides solution in real-time and streamed as NMEA messages, I might code something for that.

If you'd like I can walk you through setting up BNC so you can take a look at it, it's not too hard.

Francisco.

--

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Earthworm Community Forum" group.
 

To post to this group, send an email to earthworm_forum@googlegroups.com

 
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to

earthworm_forum+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com

 
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/earthworm_forum?hl=en

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "Earthworm Community Forum" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/earthworm_forum/LSMMqBhq-uI/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to earthworm_forum+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

Francisco J. Hernandez
Graduate Student
Department of Geology
University of Puerto Rico, Mayaguez Campus.

[Jean-Marie Saurel]

Hello,

Erol, I think your acceleration and GPS data will have the same timing,
but given that it takes some time to compute the displacement, your GPS
data will arrive 10 to 12 seconds late behind real-time.
Did you know Trimble has an instrument which combines an accelerometer
and a GPS to output streams combining both measurements ?
It's the Kestrel : http://www.reftek.com/seismogeodetic-system/ .

Francisco, your idea modifying the BKG client is really great.
If I remember, this means it's the BKG client which computes the
precise PPP solution from the raw Binex stream and orbites and clock
corrections from the web. Is that right ?

Speaking about mseed, I'm not sure at this moment you will found
necessary channel names for GNSS derived data.
The only solution I can see is using the X instrument code (derived or
generated channel).
Maybe, there will be more room for those GPS data in the next
generation miniseed format.

Regards.

Jean-Marie.

PS : I never saw, used or tested a Kestrel, unfortunately ;) .

Le 04.04.2018 17:57, Erol Kalkan a écrit :
> Hi Francisco,
>
> Thanks for your input. I am new to GPS measurements. When you
> mentioned that the latency is usually 10-12 seconds. Can you explain
> this further? My plan is to use acceleration data in EW in
> conjunction
> with GPS displacement data, but both should have same timing. 
>
> Erol 
>
> On Tuesday, April 3, 2018 at 4:40:58 PM UTC-7, Francisco H. wrote:
>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> I'm currently also testing various things. Here in PR we use
>> Trimble GPSs with General Serial Output Format (GSOF Messages),
>> which can include X, Y, Z, dx, dy, dz, and velocity data. This can
>> be put into EW using the geojson2ew (and a python script I made) or
>> a small module I created gsof2ew.
>> However my concern was that it was proprietary so I created a
>> modified version of the BKG Ntrip Cient (BNC) which can connect
>> directly to EW and transmit either X, Y, Z or dx, dy, dz data at
> the
>> millimeter resolution in order to get these you need a Binex or
>> Rinex stream and the clock and corrections from IGS. Latency is
>> usually 10-12 seconds which is pretty good. You could if you wished
>> subscribe to the UNAVCO Casters and have these all as trace data in
>> an EW system. Here's a screenshot of it working:
>>

>> [1]

>>
>> The code can be found here:
>>

>> https://github.com/Fran89/gsof2ew [2]
>>
>> https://github.com/Fran89/BKG-EW-Version- [3]
>>
>> https://github.com/Fran89/GPS2EW [4]

>>
>> DISCLAIMER:
>>
>> This code is funcional, but experimental there are various things
>> to add and improve and crashes are not unheard of. I hope to maybe
>> present some of this stuff at SSA/LACSC in Miami next month.
>> Hopefully the community can also improve on the code here and we
> can
>> create a way that GPS data can be used and stored alongside seismic
>> data (custom mini-seed headers for RTGPS data?).
>>
>> Francisco.
>>
>> On Tuesday, April 3, 2018 at 6:39:57 PM UTC-4, Erol Kalkan wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks Jean-Marie,
>>>
>>> Great information. I also got some additional input from John
>>> Langbein from USGS; he mentioned about 
>>>
>>> Septentrio PolarX5. Apparently, this particular model can process
>>> the raw GPS/GNSS data on board. 
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Erol  
>>>
>>> On Monday, April 2, 2018 at 9:34:17 AM UTC-7, Erol Kalkan wrote:
>>>
>>>> Has anyone worked with bringing GPS displacement data  to EW?
>>>>
>>>> I remember from last year’s EW course that there were some
>>>> efforts having a new module for GPS data.
>>>>
>>>> Any input will be greatly appreciated.
>>>>
>>>> Erol
>

> --
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "Earthworm Community Forum" group.
>
> To post to this group, send an email to

> earthwo...@googlegroups.com

>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to

> earthworm_for...@googlegroups.com

>
> For more options, visit this group at

> http://groups.google.com/group/earthworm_forum?hl=en [5]
>
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google

> Groups "Earthworm Community Forum" group.

> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,

> send an email to earthworm_for...@googlegroups.com [6].
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout [7].
>
>
> Links:
> ------
> [1]
>
> https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-tC-FvUpMx4U/WsQO_H8mUOI/AAAAAAAABSM/x8kUkrw2p4Mu98h-o3Ca7rwxOAMKssrEwCLcBGAs/s1600/image.png
> [2] https://github.com/Fran89/gsof2ew
> [3] https://github.com/Fran89/BKG-EW-Version-
> [4] https://github.com/Fran89/GPS2EW
> [5] http://groups.google.com/group/earthworm_forum?hl=en
> [6] mailto:earthworm_for...@googlegroups.com
> [7] https://groups.google.com/d/optout

[Francisco H.]

Hello Jean-Marie,

Indeed this is exactly how it works, it passes the Precises Point Positions (PPP) calculated from Binex/Rinex, clocks and orbits directly to the EW Ring. And yea I hardcoded GPX, GPY, and GPZ (with no way to differ between actual XYZ and dXdYdZ. I thought of maybe GDX, GDY and GDZ but haven't decided yet) channels with the 4 letter station code extracted from the stream name to the Tracebuf2, hopefully I can make these configurable (or they get standardized) soon. With GSOF (that has velocity capability) I use GVX, GVY and GVZ and outputs mm/sec so it can almost be used as a virtual seismometer. Trimble must use some other methodology (than take 2 positions and subtract them) to have those velocities I believe but I don't have those details. 

When I'm inside the BKG clients code I can actually see all values and data structures created and I can pass any value to EW including dx, dy and dz errors too which might also be of interest, although coding that may take some time. Let me know if you need any more details.

> [6] mailto:earthworm_forum+unsub...@googlegroups.com

[Jean-Marie Saurel]

Hello Francisco,

Thanks for those explanations, it looks really interesting.

Regarding channel name, I would try to follow SEED standards.
Thus, the basic channel name could be LXN, LXE and LXZ (north, east and
up, L for 1 sample per second).
Then, I would use the loccation code to differentiate displacement,
velocity and errors, for example.

For vertical channel, at 10 Hz, an option would be :
- 00.BXZ for displacement;
- 01.BXZ for displacement error;
- 10.BXZ for velocity;
- 11.BXZ for velocity error.

Of course, if the channel and location codes are directly configurable,
that would be the best option ;).

Have a nice week-end.
Regards.

Jean-Marie.

>> It's the Kestrel : http://www.reftek.com/seismogeodetic-system/ [1]

>>>> https://github.com/Fran89/gsof2ew [2] [2]
>>>>
>>>> https://github.com/Fran89/BKG-EW-Version- [3] [3]
>>>>
>>>> https://github.com/Fran89/GPS2EW [4] [4]

>>>  http://groups.google.com/group/earthworm_forum?hl=en [5] [5]

>>>
>>>  ---
>>>  You received this message because you are subscribed to the
>> Google
>>> Groups "Earthworm Community Forum" group.
>>>  To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from
>> it,
>>> send an email to earthworm_for...@googlegroups.com [6].

>>>  For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout [6]

>> [7].
>>>
>>>
>>> Links:
>>> ------
>>> [1]
>>>
>>>
>>
>
> https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-tC-FvUpMx4U/WsQO_H8mUOI/AAAAAAAABSM/x8kUkrw2p4Mu98h-o3Ca7rwxOAMKssrEwCLcBGAs/s1600/image.png

>> [7]
>>> [2] https://github.com/Fran89/gsof2ew [8]
>>> [3] https://github.com/Fran89/BKG-EW-Version- [9]
>>> [4] https://github.com/Fran89/GPS2EW [10]
>>> [5] http://groups.google.com/group/earthworm_forum?hl=en [11]
>>> [6] mailto:earthworm_for...@googlegroups.com
>>> [7] https://groups.google.com/d/optout [12]

>>
>> --
>> --------------------------------------
>> Institut de Physique du Globe de Paris
>> Observatoires Volcanologiques et Sismologiques
>> +33 1 83 95 74 37
>> 1 rue Jussieu
>> 75238 Paris cédex 5
>

> --
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "Earthworm Community Forum" group.
>
> To post to this group, send an email to
> earthwo...@googlegroups.com
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to
> earthworm_for...@googlegroups.com
>
> For more options, visit this group at

> http://groups.google.com/group/earthworm_forum?hl=en [13]

>
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "Earthworm Community Forum" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,

> send an email to earthworm_for...@googlegroups.com [14].
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout [15].
>
>
> Links:
> ------
> [1] http://www.reftek.com/seismogeodetic-system/

> [2] https://github.com/Fran89/gsof2ew
> [3] https://github.com/Fran89/BKG-EW-Version-
> [4] https://github.com/Fran89/GPS2EW
> [5] http://groups.google.com/group/earthworm_forum?hl=en

> [6] https://groups.google.com/d/optout
> [7]
>
> https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-tC-FvUpMx4U/WsQO_H8mUOI/AAAAAAAABSM/x8kUkrw2p4Mu98h-o3Ca7rwxOAMKssrEwCLcBGAs/s1600/image.png
> [8] https://github.com/Fran89/gsof2ew
> [9] https://github.com/Fran89/BKG-EW-Version-
> [10] https://github.com/Fran89/GPS2EW
> [11] http://groups.google.com/group/earthworm_forum?hl=en
> [12] https://groups.google.com/d/optout
> [13] http://groups.google.com/group/earthworm_forum?hl=en
> [14] mailto:earthworm_for...@googlegroups.com
> [15] https://groups.google.com/d/optout

[Stefan Lisowski]

Jean-Marie and anyone else interested in commenting --

If someone was working on the next SEED standard, what additional
fields/headers/data types should they add to it to handle GPS data?

- Stefan

[Francisco H.]

Hello Jean-Marie,

Excellent, I'll be sure to add those options in in the next update, I think it's a good idea to use location codes to differ the various streams I'll implement that. It shouldn't be too hard to make it configurable too. These were quick proof of concepts, I'll try to flesh them out and make them proper modules.

Thanks!

Francisco.

>>> [6] mailto:earthworm_forum+unsub...@googlegroups.com

> [14] mailto:earthworm_forum+unsub...@googlegroups.com

[Jean-Marie Saurel]

Hello Stefan,

I followed the FDSN threads about the next SEED standard, and as far as
I remember, there were no requirements specific to GNSS data.
However, most of the changes were related to extend the various
identification codes of a stream (network, station, location and
channel).
We can then expect easiest way to tag and identify GNSS related data
streams.

You can find the requirement raised and the proposed solutions here.
https://github.com/FDSN/miniSEED3-TechnicalEvaluation/blob/master/report.md

Also the full requirement document is here.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ymAe9v1rUuucpY7ai5ilKsD7V1ejwt6GxQQmJ5IevDI/edit

Finally, the main discussion threads on the topic, adressed under FDSN
working group II can be found on the following links.
http://www.fdsn.org/message-center/thread/514/
http://www.fdsn.org/message-center/thread/527/

Regards.

Jean-Marie SAUREL.

> send an email to earthworm_for...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.