6 minute electrophoresis without buffer

[Sebastian Cocioba]

http://www.6mgel.com/liberty_120.htm

I know the price is steep but it may be worth it for high throughput needs. Also saves on agarose.

Sent from my Windows Phone

[Nathan McCorkle]

Seems like it's just a marketing tactic, the second instruction says:
"Remove combs, add 300ml deionized water, add little running buffer at
both ends, or without running buffer when runing bufferless genotyping
gel."

That most likely means the gel is buffered too. I think more
appropriate marketing would be 'liquid-free', if anything.

Here's a patent that's about to expire on this type of system
(probably the same as the Invitrogen eGel)
http://www.google.com/patents?hl=en&lr=&vid=USPAT5209831


I'm trying to figure out what kind of buffer they're using, that's the
key to this '6 minute run'... but it's probably Sodium Borate or
Lithium Borate (i.e. Faster Better Media LLC) here's 'their' patent:
http://www.6mgel.com/6mgel%20patent.pdf

And the work Faster Better Media LLC based their products on:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SB_buffer
http://www.biotechniques.com/multimedia/archive/00037/BTN_A_04374ST04_O_37093a.pdf


--
-Nathan

[Avery louie]

Could you just cast your electrodes into your gel?  Will anything bad happen?  I guess it would be hard to remove the electrodes, since they are fairly delicate.

--A

--
-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups DIYbio group. To post to this group, send email to diy...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to diybio+un...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at https://groups.google.com/d/forum/diybio?hl=en
Learn more at www.diybio.org
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "DIYbio" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to diybio+un...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to diy...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/diybio?hl=en.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

[Nathan McCorkle]

On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 12:02 PM, Avery louie <inact...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Could you just cast your electrodes into your gel? Will anything bad
> happen? I guess it would be hard to remove the electrodes, since they are
> fairly delicate.
>

the patent say gas evolution at the electrode will cause increased
resistance and eventually breaking the circuit unless aluminum and
palladium electrodes are used at opposite ends to absorb the O2 and
H2 gas.

--
-Nathan

[Avery louie]

mm.  Yea, that could be a problem.  So the buffer is basically just a conductive gasket.

--A

[Nathan McCorkle]

The cartridge based system patents also mention a big problem being
the buffer on top of the gel conducting like crazy and heating up the
gel (causing melting and band smearing)... the 6mgel patent puts
vertical gaskets on the end of the gel and adds dH20 to the center,
rather than a plate. Both control for evaporation from the gel, but
the water also draws heat, allowing higher run voltages.

[Simon Quellen Field]

How about using activated charcoal for the electrodes?

They can adsorb thousands of times as much gas as aluminum and palladium.

You could probably just cast the powder right into the gel.

Then use any kind of wire on top of the powder to attach the power.

Increased resistance should not be a worry. The gel itself has a higher resistance than anything connected to it.

And you can always increase the voltage to compensate.

And that being the case, why not just put your electrodes into a well in the gel, and fill that well with liquid buffer?

Any bubbles on the electrodes will rise to the surface and pop (something they can't do in the gel).

If you are casting your own gel, it is easy to cast the well at the same time.

If not, it is also easy to drill a hole in the gel with a drill bit and a twist of the wrist.

-----

Get a free science project every week! "http://scitoys.com/newsletter.html"

[Mega]

Looks great...

 

Especially because lowering consumables...

 

Couldn't you run DNA on/through a dry matrix instead of a gel??  That could be reused a thousand times...

[Avery louie]

I cant imagine any porous conductive dry media...but you probably could.

--A

--

-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups DIYbio group. To post to this group, send email to diy...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to diybio+un...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at https://groups.google.com/d/forum/diybio?hl=en
Learn more at www.diybio.org
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "DIYbio" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to diybio+un...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to diy...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/diybio?hl=en.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/diybio/-/fdQgsELAozsJ.

[Andreas Sturm]

How about:

Carbon nanotubes, Graphite, porous aluminium http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_foam
...

 

 

You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "DIYbio" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/diybio/YNAbrgUMklQ/unsubscribe?hl=en.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to diybio+un...@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to diy...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/diybio?hl=en.

[Andreas Sturm]

Ah one problem... How do you get the DNA out of the foam then :D

 

Maybe like a HPLC... At 100V, 100 bp need 2 minuets, 200 bp need 4 minutes, ... and after 20 minutes your sample (xxx bp) can be collected because it leaves the foam at the positively charged end...

[Nathan McCorkle]

On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 4:57 PM, Simon Quellen Field <sfi...@scitoys.com> wrote:
> How about using activated charcoal for the electrodes?
> They can adsorb thousands of times as much gas as aluminum and palladium.
> You could probably just cast the powder right into the gel.
> Then use any kind of wire on top of the powder to attach the power.
>
> Increased resistance should not be a worry. The gel itself has a higher

I think the reference meant the gas would form an insulator
eventually, resistance that high means you DNA isn't moving anymore.

I've been reading about HCl, and learned that it is synthesized first
by electrolysis of brine (2 NaCl + 2 H2O) to (2 NaOH + H2 + Cl2) and
then the gas is exposed to UV to form HCl. So maybe adding a row of UV
LEDs at the electrodes would reduce gas evolution or stop it. The
trade-off is more watts electricity and UV leds/lights.

--
-Nathan

[Nathan McCorkle]

Gas is still a media, in gas chromatography you still need to dissolve
or suspend your sample, this is either heating it, or using an
ion-sprayer... much harder to use than hydrogels

-Nathan

[John Griessen]

On 03/07/2013 06:57 PM, Simon Quellen Field wrote:
> How about using activated charcoal for the electrodes? . . . why not just put your electrodes into a well in the gel?

Great lateral thinking Simon.