Problems with Device Side Data USB 5.25" floppy controller

[Katy Rawdon]

Hi everyone,

I think this subject has been touched upon in passing in other threads, but I was wondering if I could ask a more specific question.

We have a Device Side Data USB 5.25" floppy controller, attached to a PC running Windows XP, with a 3GB processor and 3.25GB RAM. The PC can recognize most external drives, but won't recognize the 5.25" floppy. 

Has anyone run into this problem before, and if so, do you have any good ideas for things to test or change?

Thanks,

Katy

-- 

Katy Rawdon

Coordinator of Technical Services

Special Collections Research Center

Temple University Libraries

Philadelphia, PA 19122

(215) 204-5250

kra...@temple.edu 

***

The Special Collections Research Center (SCRC) is the principal repository for and steward of the Libraries’ rare books, manuscripts, archives and University records. Our reading room is located on the ground floor of Paley Library and is open from 8:30 a.m. to 5:30 p.m., Monday through Friday. 

Due to the unique, rare, valuable and often fragile nature of the items in our collection, and because they are stored in several locations in the library as well as the offsite library depository, the use of many of these materials requires scheduling an appointment ahead of time.  Special handling is also required, so we ask that you familiarize yourself with our policies designed to provide you the greatest possible access to the materials while protecting and preserving them for future use.

Send inquiries to our general e-mail, or call us at (215) 204-8257.  You may also write us at:  SCRC, Paley Library (017-00), 1210 Polett Walk, Temple University, Philadelphia, PA 19122.  Please include your name and complete contact information, as well as your specific question.

[Mark A. Matienzo]

Are you using the FC5025's software for imaging disks, and have you installed the drivers? The FC5025 will not work to expose the floppy drive as a normal disk device to Windows (e.g. an A: or B: drive).

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Mark A. Matienzo <ma...@matienzo.org>

Director of Technology, Digital Public Library of America

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[MP de Rooij]

Hi Katy,

Did you install the software that goes with the controller? It works fine in my experience.
http://www.deviceside.com/fc5025.html

Regards,
Maurice de Rooij

Op 23 sep. 2014 16:47 schreef "Katy Rawdon" <lemur...@gmail.com>:

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[Matthew Adair]

Katy,

Are you using the software included the device?   5.25 floppies attached through the FC5025  don't appear as a native floppy disk or external drive in windows - you still have to use their software and drivers to read disks and extract the files.

Best regards,

Matt

----
Matthew Adair

Lead Archivist for Digitization

  Bentley Historical Library

  1150 Beal Avenue

  Ann Arbor, Michigan 48109-2113

  734-647-3537

  www.bentley.umich.edu

  @UmichBentley 

On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 10:47 AM, Katy Rawdon <lemur...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Katy Rawdon]

Thanks, everyone. I inherited this computer and device, and didn't install it myself. I know the drivers are installed, but I didn't know that you have to use their software... Hm! This seems like a key piece of information for me to have known, ahem... The question is, did the person who first installed the device also install the software? I will find out...

Thanks,

Katy

[Katy Rawdon]

Hi everyone,

In my ongoing wrestling match with our Device Side Data USB 5.25" floppy controller, I have a question for those who use this device: Our computer will recognize the controller through its proprietary software, but only if it is directly connected to the computer, and *not* connected through a write blocker. Has anyone else encountered this issue? We have Tableau Forensic USB Bridge, which we've used sucessfully with other drives.

More generally, I was wondering what types of metadata and information people are gathering about disk images they create. I've planned on creating a file/directory listing, and checksums, but wasn't sure if I was missing anything else major. And lastly, the above-mentioned 5.25" drive creates disk images in the Disk Image File format. I had planned on saving disk images in the AAF format - is there a way to convert? Is it even really necessary?

Thanks to everyone who continues to answer my ongoing stream of questions... :-)

Best,

Katy

[Matthew McKinley]

Hi Katy,

A write-blocker shouldn't be necessary for the FC5025 as the hardware is read-only by design. FWIW we too use the Tableau USB bridge and were unable to get it to work with the FC5025 when testing.

For metadata, we're capturing filename, full path, size in Kb, date last modified, and checksum. I would say at least date last modified is useful MD for archivists and worth capturing.

Finally, we save our FC5025 images as .001 raw files (is this what you mean by Disk Image File?). I'm aware that AFF offers more advantages but the default .001 output is simplest for our imaging staff to produce and to my knowledge is currently more compatible with command line tools than AFF. We will likely migrate to AFF or another open forensic format in the future but this was a 'get off the ground' decision.

Matthew

Matthew McKinley
Digital Project Specialist, University of California, Irvine
about.me

[Katy Rawdon]

Aha! I was so hoping someone would say that... :-)  I had wondered if I really needed a write blocker for the FC5025, because I know it's supposed to be read-only, but I couldn't find anything truly definitive that made me comfortable saying, "the hell with the write blocker." Thanks! 

The filename, path, size, and date last modified are included in our directory listing, so it sounds like we're on the same page.

The disk images are .img files, which I *think* is the raw file format, correct? I don't know enough to know if it's problematic to save them in this format or not. If they are able to later be converted to AAF, then it's likely not a problem.

Thanks!

Katy

-- 

Katy Rawdon

Coordinator of Technical Services

Special Collections Research Center

Temple University Libraries

Philadelphia, PA 19122

(215) 204-5250

kra...@temple.edu 

***

The Special Collections Research Center (SCRC) is the principal repository for and steward of the Libraries’ rare books, manuscripts, archives and University records. Our reading room is located on the ground floor of Paley Library and is open from 8:30 a.m. to 5:30 p.m., Monday through Friday. 

Due to the unique, rare, valuable and often fragile nature of the items in our collection, and because they are stored in several locations in the library as well as the offsite library depository, the use of many of these materials requires scheduling an appointment ahead of time.  Special handling is also required, so we ask that you familiarize yourself with our policies designed to provide you the greatest possible access to the materials while protecting and preserving them for future use.

Send inquiries to our general e-mail, or call us at (215) 204-8257.  You may also write us at:  SCRC, Paley Library (017-00), 1210 Polett Walk, Temple University, Philadelphia, PA 19122.  Please include your name and complete contact information, as well as your specific question.

[L Snider]

If you are worried about your 5 inch materials, then you can also cover the notch, which write protects it manually...
http://electronicstechnician.tpub.com/14091/css/14091_261.htm

Most people I know don't use a write blocker, but it depends on their set up. I used the .img file format and was able to mount it to get the files out of it.

Cheers

Lisa

[Margaret Peachy]

Hi, All -

I'm reviving this thread as it's most related to the issue I'm currently facing.  I have an FC5025 and a new FRED, and they're not playing nicely together. I've installed the drivers and the accompanying software, but the software will not recognize the drive. I have tested this all on my own workstation and it works fine, so I'm thinking it's a compatibility issue with the FRED? Has anyone else run into this?

Thanks!
Margaret

[Laurie Rizzo]

Hi,

I am having the same problem with the FC5025 - but without FRED. I have the software/driver installed on my computer. But when I open the "Disk Image and Browse" software - under where it says: "Source Drive" it says "No drives found." It does this no matter which "Disk Type" I select.

Anyone have any ideas on how to solve this issue.

Thank you,
Laurie

Laurie Rizzo

Audiovisual Archivist

Audiovisual Collections and Digital Initiatives Department

Hagley Museum and Library

P.O. Box 3630

Wilmington, DE 19807

302 658-2400, x277

lri...@hagley.org

[Margaret Peachy]

Hi Laurie,

I actually had success once I went and updated the drivers. Have you checked that?

Good luck!
Margaret

...

[Laurie Rizzo]

I believe I've got the most up to date version on my computer but I will check. I'm out of the office till September 8. Thank you so much for your response!

Laurie

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[Tom Kashuba]

I am also having trouble getting the Device Site USB 5.25" USB floppy controller interface to work for me.

Here is my saga ...

I bought the DS USB adapter about 3 years ago but got sidetracked with some wonderful health issues.  I just found the time to pull out the adapter ($55) and the recommended TEAC 5.25" floppy drive I bought at the same time.($60)

Not finding any "Quick Start" guide, I used my tweaking experience and plugged it in.  I then inserted an old MDBS 5.25" installer disk into the drive and closed the latch. 
Then, like several others, was surprised that Windows did not recognize or display the drive. 

I have about 16 drives in use already so I looked elsewhere for the problem.  I reviewed my wonderful USBDLM drive letter manager to see if I misconfigured it.  No dice.  I tried all sorts of combinations thinking I was messing up the lettering rules. 

I then turned my attention back to the unit itself.  I then saw that Device Manager listed it but as having a problem initiating. 

I then found a jumper guide among the disparity and sparse documentation at the site.  Silly me.  It took 20 minutes to figure out that they were referring to the jumpers on the drive, not the adapter.  I kept scratching my head trying to find jumpers on the adapter (laugh).  I then looked closer at the drive itself.  Sure enough, with a magnifying glass and flashlight, I found all the jumpers being referred to in the jumper instructions on the drive's motherboard.  Note to Device Side adapter.  Hey, DS.  You really need better top-down instructions.

I verified that all but "E2" jumpers were correct and, further, that the "E2" jumper was desired but not necessary.  After an hour of using a magnifying glass and flashlight, I found the E2 jumper far away from the clustered main jumper group on the other end of the board with its label even further away buried between other components with a tiny arrow pointing back to the jumper.  So, I jumped it to have everything as recommended.  Only after that grief did I find another text explaining where it was.  Ha!

Device Manager still did not like it.  After more scrounging, I discovered the last driver package on Device Side site was a version newer than the one I installed from the CD even though the date of my purchase was later than the date of the driver on the site.  Oh, well.  So, I uninstalled the CD version and installed the latest download.

Voila.  Device Manager now saw the USB adapter as a properly working device - under Windows 10, no less.  But, alas. No joy.  Windows still did not show it as a drive.

[Cranial Fire Works]  Ah, just maybe, the drive doesn't have the complete code to negotiate with Windows storage classes and is meant only to be accessed by the programs that are installed with the driver.  In hindsight, that makes some total sense since the basis if the adapter is to access the drive at a very low bit level to allow image download and decoding in many different early PC format using the included utility programs.  Great. 

So I ran the WINDIB.exe program.  Yippee!  The adapter was listed in the interface selection.  I then chose the IBM 360 and IBM then 1200 modes.  Then File List.  Nothing.  It kept saying couldn't list files.  I flipped the disk over.  Nothing.  I tried both 360 and 1200 modes.  Nothing.  Every time, it said can't any files. 

I then thought, OK, lets try to dump the data into an image for use by the image utility programs that come in the suite.  Every sector read produced an error.  OK, maybe its a totally trashed disk.  I then tried 2 other disks.  Same exact thing.  I tried IBM 360 or IBM 1200, both sides - nothing but errors on every single sector.

In so much as the drive spins up, the RED activity light lights, the jumpers are correct, the cables are well mounted, and all seems in order, it is either the adapter or the drive, each of which set me back $50-60 and far too late to get replacements. 

Since the list/dump program came up OK and seemed to control the drive and spin it up, I'm at a loss.  It unplugged everything and put them back in their boxes on a nearby chair hoping that the god of tweaking will send an arrow of inspiration.

And that is the end of the first chapter in this saga.  Not sure how to proceed without spending another $50-60 for each component, one at a time, to see if they are defective.

Time to hit the couch and veg a bit while salving my mental wounds.

[Porter Olsen]

Hi Tom,

To quote Mark from above: "Are you using the FC5025's software for imaging disks, and have you installed the drivers? The FC5025 will not work to expose the floppy drive as a normal disk device to Windows (e.g. an A: or B: drive)." Hope that helps.

Porter

[Thomas Kashuba]

To All: See Question "Q:"

As covered in great detail in my tediously long story, I used the "winib" file listing and image extraction program that came with the DeviceSide FDC-USB adapter. "FC5025" is the name of the controller on the DeviceSide adapter board and is what is listed correctly as properly initialized in Windows Device Manager.

Q: So, has anyone here gotten the Device Side FDC-USB 5.25" Floppy controller, standard drive and winib program to work under Windows 10?

Re faulty expectation of File Explorer:
My bad for not having seen the position of the FC5025 driver in Device Manager which is clearly NOT under the usual section for optical, floppy.

For DS adapter-accessed files to appear in File Explorer, another, higher level driver would be required to interface the low level FC5025 driver to the storage class API in Windows.

Such a driver would also allow File Explorer to list all the files that winib does. It could even walk through all supported formats automatically, from most common to least, and stop when it can read w/o errors. Voila. Automatic format detection and access.

I will next try winib with Admin rights and/or in Widows 7 emulation mode. Windows' HAL (hardware abstraction layer) can be very fussy with programs that talk at the controller level.

~fin~

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[Kam Woods]

The Device Side FC5025 *is* a write-blocker. From the manufacturer's site (http://www.deviceside.com/fc5025.html):

"The FC5025 is read-only. It cannot write to floppies."

Kam

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[Kam Woods]

Oh, apologies. For some reason the original message here just turned up as unread in my inbox. Please disregard.