issues on mmbtools mot slideshow with skoda, volkswagen,audio car radios

[Kai Brenner]

Hello

we have the folllowing issue using  mmbtools with mot-encoder on the slideshow:

no slides at all all on following DAB+receiver board build into Skoda, Volkswagen Car Radios.

NXP Semiconductors SAF7741HV/125
PnPNetwork - PN3021P - Digital Audio Broadcasting SoC - Demodulator+DSP,
for DAB/DAB+/DMB Audio/FM(RDS)
http://www.epartshub.com/aspadmin/seriesForm.do?method=getAspSeriesDetail&builder=Y&type=S&lang_flag=KR&classNm=%C0%FC%C3%BC+%C1%A6%C7%B0+%B8%AE%BD%BA%C6%AE&classCd=CLS0003596&cmpyCd=00006250&seriesCd=SR0017867&seriesNm=PN3021P&parentCd=&bottomFlag=N&partsCnt=0&domainName=www.pnpnetwork.com/KR

All information from the official Skoda, Volkswagen, Audi car importer,  AMAG Switzerland.

Other ensembles from national  competitors are showing instead  a slideshow with the same board!
Any suggestions?

kind regards
kai brenner

[Stefan Pöschel]

Hi Kai,

some questions to investigate the issue:

Do you transmit the FIG 0/13 signalling, which is needed for the
slideshow (please see:
http://wiki.opendigitalradio.org/Mot-encoder#Service_signalling).

Do you by chance have another slideshow capable DAB(+) receiver to check
the slideshow decoding?

Which version of the mot-encoder and which command lines do you use?

Does at least the DynamicLabel service work with an mmbtools station?

Thanks and regards,
Stefan

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[Nick Piggott]

Hello Kai,

I had to download and compile the *next* branch of the odr-dabmux and the latest version of  mot-encoder (from fdk-aac-dabplus) in order to get it to work on VW Group cards (Skoda, Volkswagen).

As Stefan has said, you must have a FIG0/13 definition enabled too. This will also include the X-PAD field in FIG0/13 which is required for the DAB implementation in those cars.

Here's a snip of my config:

; Define Service Components (one component per sub for now!)

components {

comp-pgm1 {

type 0

label "The Breeze"

shortlabel "Breeze"

service srv-pgm1

subchannel sub-pgm1

figtype 0x02

}

}

The mot-encoder command line is:

mot-encoder -R -v -s 12 --pad 32 --remove-dls --dls dls/breeze.txt --output mot/breeze.mot -d /home/dabsys/site/slideshow/breeze

The toolame command line is:

toolame (in and out) -b 128 -s 48 -m j -y 2 -L -p 32 -P mot/breeze.mot

The slide is 9552 bytes in JPG format. NOTE - that is *small*, and you may have to work hard to get a slide that small. The -s figure in mot-encoder is roughly set to allow one transmission of the slide at that size, so if you have bigger filesize on the slide, you'll need to adapt that too.

But, it does work - here's a photo of the Skoda Octavia

Nick

[kai brenner]

Hello Stefan and Nick

thx for the fast replies.

the version of the mot-encoder and the fdk-aac-dabplus are :

DAB MOT encoder v0.7.3 for slideshow and DLS
Welcome to fdk-aac-dabplus v0.7.3, compiled at Nov 30 2015, 12:55:38

DLS and slideshow are usually working fine.
Actually there are only those volkswagen car radios with make problems,
all other slideshow compatible radios give the wanted results. Even with
35K Slides :-).
Our Setup is:
|( Livewire Audio --> Encoder) in house| -->zeroMQ-->|dabmux
TransmitterSite(dab+ provider) |
Mot-encoder command line:
/usr/local/bin/mot-encoder -s 15 -o /export/dls.pad -t /export/dls.txt
-c 15 -d /export/slides -p 34
Encoder command line:
/usr/local/bin/dabplus-enc -v file:///usr/local/bin/stream.sdp -o
tcp://IP_on_Transmitter_Site:specific_Port -b 80 -r 48000 -p 34 -P
/export/dls.pad

for the actual dabmux version i have to wait for my provider's answer.


thx and kind regards
kai

Am 09.12.15 um 23:35 schrieb Stefan Pöschel:

[Nick Piggott]

Hi,

1) the mot-encoder version is the same in use here -> 0.7.3

2) I'm using odr-dabmux 0.8.1 - The VW Group cars *require* the X-PAD field transmitted in FIG0/13 (with value 0x0C3C), otherwise they won't recognise that Slideshow is present in X-PAD. This is entirely correct - the other vehicles are making assumptions that were previously valid.

3) Get your provider to check the version of odr-dabmux, and that they definitely have figtype=0x02 in your service definition.

4) How many bytes is your slide? If you are sending at 34 bytes per frame, and allowing 15 seconds to transmit, you can only have a slide of about 18kbyes in size (34 bytes x 41.667 frames/second x 15 seconds).

If you're seeing the slideshow on other devices, that suggests that 1), 3) and 4) are OK - so my guess is that X-PAD Field is missing, which is fixed by using a more recent version of odr-dabmux

Nick

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Nick

[Matthias P. Brändli]

Hey Stefan,

FYI, this is an observation done on the production transmission in
Zürich. Many other receivers show slideshow correctly.

mpb

[Kai Brenner]

Hello folks

FIG Type is 0/13 , Fig-Type is 0x2 is set otherwise no slides at all on other radios.

Can also confirm that  with Andreas Gsinn's DAB Player / DABInfo

My Tests:
I put a 497Byte slide in the folder only white 320x240px  with -s 20 and -p 34.

No slide again at Volkswagen/Skoda group car radios, on all other radios immediately: the white slide and the DLS.

But I don't care about that anymore.

It can't belive that we should go back to culls and stones just because the industry sits on old standards -

Buy a car with a new radio should be right the answer!

So thanks for all the input and help.

kind regards

kai

  

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[Nick Piggott]

Hi Kai,

Can you try using 32 bytes for X-PAD, not 34.

Change your -p parameter to 32, in both toolame and mot-encoder

I remember that there was a confusion over what happens to X-PAD bytes in subsequent MPEG frames. The specification does not require there to be CI bytes if the *entire* X-PAD field contains bytes for the same application as the X-PAD field in the previous MPEG frame. I know this caused a problem.

I wonder if that's the problem here?

Nick

>> <mailto:crc-mmbtools+unsub...@googlegroups.com>.

[Stefan Pöschel]

Hi,

the sometimes omitted CI list (which is completely compliant to the EN
300 401) could indeed be the reason why the slideshow does not work.

And also would explain why in contrast DL works:
Due to the segmentation of DL texts etc. all X-PAD fields of a DL text
usually have a CI list and therefore the DL text is shown - whereas the
slides have quite long Data Groups which enables the mot-encoder to
sometimes omit the CI list.


To test this, please do the following:

Send out a slideshow together with the DL text "testlabel_16char"
(consisting indeed of exactly 16 chars)

First use the previously used PAD size of 34 (32 unfortunately will not
change the behaviour here). The receiver should display the DL, but not
the slides

Do a second test with the PAD size of 8. This time also the DL text is
partly affected by omitted CI lists.
If omitted CI lists are the reason here, now neither slides nor DL
should be displayed by the radio.

I'm really looking forward to the result here!

Regards,
Stefan

> <javascript:>>:

>
> Hey Stefan,
>
> FYI, this is an observation done on the production transmission in
> Zürich. Many other receivers show slideshow correctly.
>
> mpb
>
> On 09. 12. 15 23:35, Stefan Pöschel wrote:
> > Hi Kai,
> >
> > some questions to investigate the issue:
> >
> > Do you transmit the FIG 0/13 signalling, which is needed for the
> > slideshow (please see:
> >
> http://wiki.opendigitalradio.org/Mot-encoder#Service_signalling

> <http://wiki.opendigitalradio.org/Mot-encoder#Service_signalling>).

> >> an email to crc-mmbtools...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>
> >> <mailto:crc-mmbtools...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>>.

> >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout

> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>.

> >
>
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[Kai Brenner]

Hello

after restarting the mux side due to maintenance work all is working fine now on skoda and vw car radios as well.

I use the same configuration on the encoder side . -s 20 -p34 as before. 
Slides are from 8-12kBytes.

thx for your help anyway.

kind regards

kai

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>

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[888...@gmail.com]

Hi

I'm testing now Wavesink Android DAB app and slides doesn't work on it, but eg DAB Player shows correct.
Other stations with commercial transmitters have slides on Wavesink.
mot-encoder pad lenght -p 16

regards

[Stefan Pöschel]

[for some reason, the message initially didn't make it to the ML]

This is interesting....could you provide the subchannel (or the complete
mux) which contains this image test? I would like to see how the PADs
are actually encoded.
While 717 bytes is a small image size, there should be nevertheless at
least one PAD with omitted CI list here.

Besides that, with which application(s) did you have the issues with
missing DL and/or slideshow?

Regards,
Stefan

Am 01.02.19 um 01:25 schrieb Francesco:
> Important behaviour: I've put a little image white of only 717byte and
> i've set pad at 184, now the little white image is displayed in android
> device.......
> But if i put the pad at 192 every image is displayed, also 10k file..... 

[Francesco]

Hi Stefan, I'm using a dab key on my phone for Android, but I've solved the problem upgrading the app on the phone...... now it works with image of 10k wirhout problems.

Thanks a lot.

[Stefan Pöschel]

Ah, I see. Great to hear that the bug was fixed in the app.

Am 07.02.19 um 10:15 schrieb Francesco: