Film Yeast on Bottled Cider

[Mark Rudge]

Hi

I appreciate this has been discussed many times before but I'm feeling anxious so need to post! :-)

My cider this year, for the first time, has formed some film yeasts while in the 300 litre Speidel Fermenter. Not all batches. I have 8 and about 4-5 of them have film yeast to varying degrees. I think this may be due to 2 possible causes 1. I blended at the end of fermentation whereas I usually blend during or at the beginnng. 2. I have used a wine yeast which is not as vigorous whereas I usually use a champagne yeast (the taste is much better for this).

Nonetheless after reading the forums (and books) I have added 50ppm So2 and bottled the cider, adding the usual amount of sugar for bottle conditioning. I have noticed.... and it is only 3 weeks in of course, that some batches do have the surface yeast forming in the bottle.
 My assumption is that as the condition develops (over the next 3-6 months) and the bottle air space is filled with Co2 that the surface yeast will disappear. Is this right?

Many thanks

Regards

Mark

Wasted Apple Cider Co
www.facebook.com/wastedappleco 

[Handmade Cider]

Mark,

it may sink to the bottom of the bottle after time and hide in the sediment but it wont go away and it may creep up the side of the neck of the bottle and leave a tide mark.

I dont think you can blame it on your choice of yeast and 50ppm SO2 may not touch it either, I have used 100ppm at bottling in the past and it has done nothing to stop it, in fact it may have advanced it as the yeast was stunned by the sulphur which left the oxygen available to the bacteria which was resistant to the SO2.

It may not necessarily be down to air in the head space either, consider these other points:

How long since your cider stopped fermenting? Plastic is oxygen porous so air may be getting in through the walls of the tank.

Did you ferment all the way to dry before racking? Racking at 1005 to slow the fermentation but leave it ticking over means your cider will still produce CO2 slowly and the yeast will scavenge the oxygen out of solution should it get in.

Do you use airlocks after your cider has finished fermenting? An airlock is not a one way valve.

How brutal is your bottler? You can oxygenate your cider nicely if the cider bubbles into the bottle.

Also, I have observed in a load of bottle conditioned cider that was stacked in a pile that the top layer had no film yeast yet the lower ones did. The top layer was warmer and the fermentation got going a lot faster so the yeast could scavenge the oxygen from the liquid and head space. To this end it is also worth considering how much nitrogen you have in your cider when you bottle it.

I was very relieved a while back when Andrew said that film yeast is a cider makers bane, it could be that the particular bacteria necessary has only just found it's way into your premises, which is why you have it now.

Film yeast happens.

In Somerset it is called The Whites and it is acceptable in storage tanks but not the final pack and we need to develop coping strategies, it is not the end of the world, it has no adverse effect unless it is rampant and that is through very bad care.

As a last resort I have heard of people who put labels around the neck to hide it and actually, it may not all be bad. In brewing some add heading liquid to the beer to make it hold the foam, film yeast has the same effect.

In my opinion a good bottle conditioned dry cider is the pinnacle of achievement, it is not easy but in my opinion it is far better than carbonation and pasteurisation and it is a learning process.

Good luck,

Denis

Denis France   www.handmadecider.co.uk   07590 264804  Company. No. 07241330

White Label – Champion Farmhouse Cider, Bath & West Show 2015.

Spring Surprise - Cider of the Festival Chippenham Camra Beer Festival 2015 & 2014

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[Mark Rudge]

Thanks Denis - Very Useful!

Some answers on your other points.

• How long since your cider stopped fermenting? Plastic is oxygen porous so air may be getting in through the walls of the tank. - most of them had all but finished in late Jan, early Feb. Yes I think botling earlier would make sense.
• Did you ferment all the way to dry before racking? Racking at 1005 to slow the fermentation but leave it ticking over means your cider will still produce CO2 slowly and the yeast will scavenge the oxygen out of solution should it get in. Yes I racked at 1005.
• Do you use airlocks after your cider has finished fermenting? An airlock is not a one way valve. Ah, yes I have left the airlocks on. I guess I should replace with a cap?
• How brutal is your bottler? You can oxygenate your cider nicely if the cider bubbles into the bottle. I use the Vigo SYphon Filler which fills from the bottom, its fairly gentle I think.
• Also, I have observed in a load of bottle conditioned cider that was stacked in a pile that the top layer had no film yeast yet the lower ones did. The top layer was warmer and the fermentation got going a lot faster so the yeast could scavenge the oxygen from the liquid and head space. To this end it is also worth considering how much nitrogen you have in your cider when you bottle it. Its all stored in a cool dark room - which I guess may not be helping. How do I measure the nitrogen levels?

Still feeling anxious as I have nearly 4000 bottles and maybe half of them are showing signs of film yeast. As with so much in cider making I guess its time and patience to see what happens! :-)

I share your view on 'a good bottle conditioned dry cider is the pinnacle of achievement'. I keep telling people about the fact mine isn't pasteurised or carbonated but the 'man in the street' generally just looks bemused!,

Thanks again

Regards

Mark

[Llanblethian Orchards - Alex]

For what it's worth, I have an issue with it myself with a test batch of bottle conditioned cider this year as well.

I suspect one of the ciders in the blend had the film yeast in it and it transferred across. Another batch without that cider in it is fine.

I have considered bulk pasteurising the cider then bottling it and pitching yeast to fix it. Also considered priming the bottles with CO2 as well. But as Denis points out, if the cider has been hanging around after fermentation in a plastic tank oxygen has probably got in at that point and priming the bottles with co2 won't do much

Alex

[Seth Jones]

I'm dealing with a similar dilemma pre-bottling and am wondering how best to handle it at this stage. Been fermenting and storing  in "blue oak" 55 US gallon tanks. As the temps began to rise to 60F in my cellar I had to be away for a couple weeks. Came back to film yeast in a number of the tanks. Racked the cider to CO2 purged tanks, dosed with 50ppm SO2 and now use the "bicycle tire valve technique" (thanks Wes Cherry) to keep the headspace filled with CO2 by giving it a blast once or twice a week. 

I'll be blending in to 200 US gallon bags (no headspace!) and then bottling in the next few weeks. 

Questions:

Is there anything else I can do to prevent recurrence at this point?

A number of my barrels contain wild yeast fermented cider. I'd planned to not add commercial yeast for conditioning because I don't want to change the flavor profile. Does the 50ppm SO2 I added make this impractical. I guess I'd better start some test batgches pronto.

BTW: won't use the blue oak alone in future. Am moving to bags inserted in the barrels and larger bags for all batches.

Thanks as always

Seth Jones

East Hollow Cider and Mead

[Mike Lachelt]

Hi Denis,

Your post suggests to me that film yeast development in the bottle is something that may affect certain bottle-conditioned ciders, but not force-carbonated and pasteurized ciders. I wonder if you could elaborate on why. (I don't really understand the biology of film yeast development, except that it is due to air contact). Is this because film yeast development requires the live yeasts that pasteurization kills?

Thanks,
Mike

[Andrew Lea]

Mike,

You have answered your own question really. Pasteurisation kills fermenting yeasts, film yeasts, lactic acid bacteria and indeed most microorganisms which are likely to trouble cider.

Denis's post was a good summary. Film yeasts are an endemic problem in bulk store and sometimes in bottle conditioned (hence unpasteurised) product. Some strains are quite resistant to SO2 and even the standard 50 ppm free won't entirely control them. I'd also guess it is possible to build up sulphite resistant strains in a cider house over several years.

Andrew

Wittenham Hill Cider Portal
www.cider.org.uk

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[Mike Lachelt]

Thanks again Andrew!

Mike

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