New member- topping up barrel with apple juice.

[Simon congreve]

Hi, just joined as a new member. This is my 2nd years cider making and I,m based in Northamptonshire.
Having just done an early 5 gallon batch I need to rack it into another barrel eventually but need to top up the barrel to reduce the air space (about 6 inches) for it to condition slowly in my shed.
Can I use apple juice to do this as Lidl do 1.5 litres for a quid. Was thinking of zapping it with Camden tabs then back sweetening the juice and leaving it in the cold shed, assuming fermentation would be slow or none existent for 6 months prior to bottling.

Is this theory sound and is there any type of apple juice to use or avoid?

Thanks Simon.

[Andrew Lea]

Welcome; but I'm not quite clear what it is you're doing. If you are
adding extra juice to existing juice before fermentation to make up
volume, all well and good. If you are adding new juice to a fermented
cider as you imply, well that will just start the fermentation up again
until the new sugar is exhausted. What is your starting and finishing SG
and how long did this summer fermentation take - presumably it was quite
fast?

Not sure why you expect to be able to hold a slow fermentation for 6
months unless you know for sure that you have very low nutrient fruit,
wild yeast etc. Early apples tend to ferment fast. Commercial juices are
typically quite nutrient rich so that will ferment fast too. 'Zapping
with Campden tablets' will certainly not guarantee a slow fermentation
once the yeast has overgrown them. Not up to the legal level (200 ppm
SO2) anyway.

Reducing the air space for cider in storage is a laudable objective but
the most important thing is a good well-maintained airlock so that new
air cannot get access. It is impossible to reduce headspace entirely for
physical reasons like thermal expansion etc. If you are in say a 5
gallon (25L) jerrican then 6 inches is about 35% of total volume. By all
means add Lidl juice to take this down to say 10%, but expect it to
ferment to dryness again.

Andrew

--
Wittenham Hill Cider Portal
www.cider.org.uk

[Simon congreve]

Andrew, thanks for the pointers. i,ll top up my barrel with some apple juice just to reduce the headspace as i wont be pressing again til the end of the month although from what you,ve suggested its probably not really necessary. You are absolutely correct in that this early batch did ferment very aggressively and quickly and I was a little concerned over the amount of gas being produced and that was in solution when i cracked the cap open occasionally.

my thought on adding campden tablets and then apple juice was that it might sweeten it if the yeasts were,nt active as it would be in a cold shed also, and that leaving it for 6 months would just add condition. i guess this is incorrect and that the apple juice will just be fermented out evntually anyhow.

Thanks for your input though, appreciate it. 

 

Simon.  

[Guy Thomas]

Hello Simon,

Before now, I've topped up a finished batch with apple juice, and of
course, the new juice starts fermenting!

This led me to a dilemma of how to sweeten the final product -
especially as I like to make sparkling cider, using 2ltr plastic
lemonade bottles and a secondary (method champaignoise) fermentation.
The problem, is that every last drop of sugar gets fermented out, but
if you kill the yeast off with camden, you can't do a secondary
fermentation.

So rather than worry about adding additional campden to kill the
yeast, and then topping up with juice, top it up and let it ferment,
just to fill the air space. I simply add a slug of fresh apple juice
to the cider, as I serve it, if I want it a bit sweeter! Sort of
apple juice/cider shandy, but seeing as my mostly Bramley-based cider
goes to about 7%-8%, the addition of a bit of fresh juice brings it
down to a sensible ABV for quaffing. Or I can serve it straight, as a
very dry, strong, crystal-clear sparkling cider (probably nearer to
apple champagne). The CO2 bubbles rise in glass in very fine strings -
just like champagne!

BTW - I usually do the secondary fermentation, about 5-6 months after
initial fermentation, in the spring, thus give the cider a good long
time to mature in larger 6 gallon vessels. After adding 4 tsp sugar
to each, as soon as the plastic 2ltr bottles are rock hard with CO2, I
then chill them for a week or so, to let all the yeast settle to the
bottom, and decant into sterilised glass beer bottles and seal with
crown tops. The chilling also makes more of the CO2 be absorbed into
the cider and prevents too much of it being lost. I can generally get
1.75ltr decanted from each plastic bottle. All the final cloudy bits
all get re-bottled, with an extra tsp or two of sugar, to top up the
CO2, and a tertiary fermentation/chilling/settling to minimise any
loss of precious cider.

Alas - I have to drink a lot of beer, to get enough glass bottles :-)
Not surprising, this is my favourite time of year!

Guy

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[s.congreve]

Guy, thanks for taking the time for such a comprehensive take on the subject. 

I like you suggested methods and will save this and give ot a go next year.

How do you find the Bramley cider, I thought the general thought was it makes poor cider even though a load goes into mine too. 

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[Guy Thomas]

Simon - I reckon that if you treat Bramley's as ingredients for "Apple
wine" rather than cider - then you're OK! The acidity is about the
same as good champagne! Nothing to stop you drinking it by the pint.
Or, as I said, sweeten before serving with either more apple juice, or
sugar, or even honey! I've even frozen fresh apple juice into ice
cubes, filled a glass with the frozen cubes, and topped up with dry
Bramley cider - as the cubes melt the drink evolves in the glass -
WELL GOOD!

In order to reduce acidity, there are some specific yeasts that will
lower acidity (allegedly) by 30% or so, such as Lalvins 71B, which I'm
trying this year for the first time:

http://www.homebrewcentre.co.uk/product.asp?pID=335&cID=148 (and
many thanks to Martin at The Homebrew Centre for the advice.)

Another option is to add powdered chalk at the end of fermentation. It
comes in little tubs from plenty of home-brew shops, and this
effectively neutralizes some of the acid, and then settles to the
bottom as an emulsion.

However - by far the best method, is to leave it to mature for at
least 6 or preferably 12 months. The maturation can (but not always)
involve a malolactic fermentation, where the natural malic acid is
broken down to lactic acid, softening the cider.

Or do as I do, if you're using predominantly Bramleys - use all the
methods above!

If you can blend apples, a good mix is 1/3 Bramley to 2/3 eaters, and
a few handfuls of crab apples for extra tannin. That mixture will give
a nicely rounded quaffable drink!

I think Bramleys have a bad name in cider making, but with a bit of
will power, great results can be had.