.po files

[Wolfgang]

Hi

so is Swordfish really the only CAT tool able to process .po files? (Poedit excepted, of course)

Why was I under the impression that CT could do it, too?

Cheers

Wolfgang

_____________________________
Wolfgang Schoene
138 Bd de Provence
06700 Saint-Laurent-du-Var               
Technical translator
Voice over speaker
DE-IT-FR-EN
in...@soundandword.com
www.soundandword.com
Member of: SFT/ADAP/ATAA
Skype: soundandword
Twitter: @WSchoene

 FACEBOOK free zone

[Hans list]

Does this help?

http://okapi.sourceforge.net/Release/Shared/Help/tutorial_02.htm

[Wolfgang]

Thanks Hans
Actually, both DVX2 and MQ can process po files, too. I only hope that the final result will be as expected.
Cheers

Wolfgang

Envoyé depuis mon iPhone

> On 22 May 2015, at 22:51, Hans list <hans...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Does this help?
>
> http://okapi.sourceforge.net/Release/Shared/Help/tutorial_02.htm
>
>

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[Hans van den Broek]

> On 23 May 2015, at 13:38, Wolfgang <soun...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Actually, both DVX2 and MQ can process po files, too.

From a 2011 ToolKit (tl;dr):


Source for the below: http://www.internationalwriters.com/toolkit/
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've written before about the strange phenomenon surrounding translators of open-source materials, who, though by most accounts often very technical, have no technology intersection with their commercial counterparts. Virtually none of the tools used by open-source translators are used by commercial translators, and vice versa. There are exceptions, of course. The open-source translation environment tool OmegaT, built mostly for and by professional commercial translators, is used by some open-source translators, and there are a handful of commercial translators using tools like Virtaal, Pootle, and Poedit. But the crossover is the exception rather than the rule.

There are reasons for this discrepancy. One is that the commercial translation environment tools are, well, commercial, cost a lot, and are therefore not accessible for the mostly volunteer open-source translators. (A few years ago I convinced the developers of Heartsome to give away their tool for free to Firefox translators, who had no tool whatsoever. It was a smart move for both their publicity and their influence among those folks.) Second, most commercial TEnTs used to run only on Windows, which was not particularly popular among many connoisseurs/translators of open-source software products. This points, thirdly, to the cultural rift between the two groups, one that in my opinion is unfortunate. (It's too bad that this won't be read by many open-source translators since this will appear only in the paid Premium edition. . . . )

There is one other reason as well, though, and that is different file formats. Many open-source projects are not based on the commercially-used file formats that yours and mine are based on, but on ones that many of us have rarely if ever heard of. The formats that particularly come to mind are the GNU gettext .po and .pot files.

I remember many years ago when I wrote the documentation for Déjà Vu, I had to document that particular filter and I was stunned. I had never seen a file like that, nor did I know what those files were even good for! Fortunately, one of the few translators who "lives in both worlds" took me under his wing, sent me sample files, and explained to me what those files were about. Eight or nine years later, I now have to work in projects based on .po files -- something that is becoming increasingly popular, especially in newly released software products with developers who originally came from the open-source corner.

So, what are these files? Translatable language resource files used in the free GNU gettext concept for translating software and documentation. GNU gettext is the de facto standard in many open-source projects, and it works with a large variety of programming languages.

In many ways, .po files are really cool. Long before XLIFF existed or .ttx had become somewhat of a standard, these bilingual translation files were the actual files to be translated and could themselves become translation memories for other projects. All this was made possible by the above-mentioned Poedit, an open-source translation editor. You might have noticed that I don't call it a translation environment tool -- that would be saying too much. It has the definite feel of a Notepad compared with Word or OpenOffice (no fuzzy matching, no spell-check, no concordance searches, no terminology components, etc.).

There are some things that can be done very well with it. One is to turn .pot files (the template files that are directly derived from the software) into the bilingual .po files, and the other is to compile the translated .po file in its compiled .mo version -- both extremely welcome features when you receive .pot files and are asked to deliver translated .mo files (duh!).

As far as translation goes, it's interesting to use Poedit for experience's sake to use for one small project, but you will quickly want to go back to your good old complete translation environment. Which tools support this format? Here is a list of TEnTs that directly support it (reader Heidi J. Golicz-Miranda asked me recently for a clarification on this):
• Déjà Vu
• Heartsome
• Swordfish
• SDL Passolo (a localization tool), and, not surprisingly,
• OmegaT
• plus a number of other open-source tools that tend to have the same limitations as Poedit.

This is great if you have one of these tools for your ongoing project, but what if you don't?

Enter Rainbow, the tool that will do what no other can, the tool that will go the extra mile, the tool whose developer, Yves Savourel, does all those things that others are too lazy to do don't have time to do.

As you can see on its wiki page, Rainbow allows you to do a multitude of localization-related things. Its most important function may be the preparation of translation packets for XLIFF, OmegaT, or Trados RTF for a great number of otherwise not supported or badly supported file formats (among which is .po).

To convert your .po files to either XLIFF or Trados RTF where the non-translatable text is protected with the Trados tw4winExternal style (see the article on PrepTags in this newsletter), you'll need to (download, install, and)
• start Rainbow,
• select Input> Add Document to insert files and select the .po file(s),
• make sure that the correct filter is selected by right-clicking on the file(s) and selecting Edit Document Properties,
• select Utilites> Translation Package Creation and choose either Generic XLIFF or Original + RTF Layer,
• select a location on the Package Location tab, and
• press Execute.

You will now have a folder structure that contains a work folder in which you can find the files that need to be processed with the TEnT of your choice. (And if your .po file was already partly translated, courtesy of Yves, a translation memory exchange TMX file would have also been created with that content right above the work folder.)

Once you're done with the translation,
• save the files back into the work folder,
• start Rainbow again,
• select Input> Add Document to insert files and select the manifest.xml file above the work folder,
• select the translated file(s),
• select Utilities> Translation Package Post-Processing, and
• select Execute.

You can now pick up your translated .po files in the done folder. And if you need to deliver .mo files, open them in Poedit and simply save them. In the default setting, Poedit will have created an .mo file for you.

(If you're thinking you'll never need to know all this, keep this in mind: Mubarak expected his 2011 to go a little differently than how it panned out, too. So keep these instructions in a safe place!)



Cheers,

Hans

--

Hans van den Broek
Schrijf-, vertaal- en redigeerwerk
Yogyakarta
Indonesia
http://cafetran4mac.blogspot.com





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[Hans list]

Please move this to the political forum.

[Hans van den Broek]

On 23 May 2015, at 14:14, Hans list <hans...@gmail.com> wrote:

Please move this to the political forum.

I only quoted this otherwise useful message, and mentioned tl;dr.

[Hans List]

On 23 May 2015, at 09:18, Hans van den Broek <ir...@indo.net.id> wrote:

I only quoted

Im Fall von gekennzeichneten Zitaten und/oder Kommentaren sind die jeweiligen Verfasser der Zitate und/oder Kommentare verantwortlich für ihre Worte?

[Wolfgang]

I think we should add Fluency to this list.

Wolfgang
_____________________________
Wolfgang Schoene
138 Bd de Provence
06700 Saint-Laurent-du-Var
Technical translator
Voice over speaker
DE-IT-FR-EN
in...@soundandword.com
www.soundandword.com
Member of: SFT/ADAP/ATAA
Skype: soundandword
Twitter: @WSchoene

FACEBOOK free zone

[Hans van den Broek]

On 26 May 2015, at 19:29, Wolfgang <soun...@gmail.com> wrote:

I think we should add Fluency to this list.

We shall not. Never mention the name of the American tool.

[Wolfgang]

Why?

_____________________________
Wolfgang Schoene
138 Bd de Provence
06700 Saint-Laurent-du-Var               
Technical translator
Voice over speaker
DE-IT-FR-EN
in...@soundandword.com
www.soundandword.com
Member of: SFT/ADAP/ATAA
Skype: soundandword
Twitter: @WSchoene

 FACEBOOK free zone

[Hans van den Broek]

On 26 May 2015, at 19:48, Wolfgang <soun...@gmail.com> wrote:

Why?

No good reason, except for pointing you at the Youtube video. Watch it, you won’t regret it.

[Víctor Parra García]

If it helps, I use OmegaT with Okapi filters for .po .pot files and it works like a charm. I really miss this feature in Cafetran :(.

[Wolfgang]

Thanks Victor,

I know about OmegaT and .po files, fact is although it is a powerful software I don’t like OmegaT ;-) and having spent a lot of money on other very performing CAT tools, I was just wondering which ones could process .po files. As it turned out, several can, among which, MemoQ, DejaVu, Swordfish and Fluency. MemoQ did a fine job for me.

Have a nice weekend

Wolfgang

_____________________________
Wolfgang Schoene
138 Bd de Provence
06700 Saint-Laurent-du-Var               
Technical translator
Voice over speaker
DE-IT-FR-EN
in...@soundandword.com
www.soundandword.com
Member of: SFT/ADAP/ATAA
Skype: soundandword
Twitter: @WSchoene

 FACEBOOK free zone

[Hans List]

How about creating an xliff from the po in oT and translate it in cT?

On 29 May 2015, at 16:18, Víctor Parra García <victorpa...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Víctor Parra]

I wouldn't dare, OmegaT and Rainbow work really bad together... If you ever get it working please let me know cause this method would be amazing :)

Enviado desde mi iPhone

[Víctor Parra]

Ouch ok! For me Windows is not an option.

Enviado desde mi iPhone

El 29/5/2015, a las 17:06, Hans List <hans...@gmail.com> escribió:

[Hans List]

Si claro pero both oT and Ct run on Mac

[Víctor Parra]

Sure, I was thinking about MemoQ.

Enviado desde mi iPhone

[Hans List]

Don't

[Víctor Parra García]

Hi Hans! I got OmegaT to properly export .xlf files and importing them back without any problem. Tested in Trados, MemoQ and CT. Cool things? Files not supported by CT can be now translated BUT (and most important for me) you can also create a .xlf from a huge folder system (currently we can just import the files un the same folder level). Tags are preserved from CT to OT (obviously, the file has been previously processed with OT, what is worring me is if i'll be able to reuse those tmx with CT due to tags support.

Do you know some other way to convert .po to whatever file type CT can manage and getting them back to po w/o the need of OT?

[Hans list]

Perhaps with Okapi Rainbow?

[Michael Beijer]

Hmm, a while back, I converted a huge amount of POs (from translationproject.org) into one big TMX. As far as I can remember, I used Xbench at the time to convert the POs to TMX. Anything Xbench can import, it can also export, into one of the three following formats: 1. TMX, 2. tab delimited text file, 3. Excel file.

I'm not sure how you would then get the data back into a PO though. Sadly, you might have to resort to Rainbow or one of the other excruciatingly complex Okapi Framework solutions ;-)

or maybe https://poedit.net/ ?

Michael

PS: the best place to ask questions these days is in the official CafeTran forum @ https://cafetran.freshdesk.com/support/discussions

******************************************************
MICHAEL BEIJER
Dutch-English translator
Hastings, UK.
Tel. +44 (0)1424 430250
Mob. +44 (0)747 5771720
Email: mic...@beijer.uk
Skype/Twitter: michaelbeijer
Beijer.uk (translation/terminology work)
******************************************************

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<This email was dictated using Dragon Professional 14. Please excuse any typos!>

[Hans List]

Michael, don't you make notes?

On 04 Nov 2015, at 11:22, Michael Beijer <mic...@beijer.uk> wrote:

As far as I can remember, I used Xbench at the time

I have set up such a note taking system of my conversion attempts and experiments myself: CafeTran.wikidot.com. Feel free to read it! Doe je voordeel ermee.

[Michael Beijer]

What a great idea, Hans, and what an interesting looking website. I will definitely read the whole thing immediately!

:-)

Michael

******************************************************
MICHAEL BEIJER
Dutch-English translator
Hastings, UK.
Tel. +44 (0)1424 430250
Mob. +44 (0)747 5771720
Email: mic...@beijer.uk
Skype/Twitter: michaelbeijer
Beijer.uk (translation/terminology work)
******************************************************

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[Hans List]

Please do report the hidden typo!

[Víctor Parra García]

OmegaT is an amazing tool giving done it's a completely free piece of software, there are cool things I'd like to see even in the BIGS like MemoQ BUT at the same time, for some other stuff is quite rudimentary and the problem is that the devs work most of the time for "their needs" which means features are implemented as long as the devs think its useful for their workflow...

I was most thinking about a conversor like this: http://translate-toolkit.readthedocs.org/en/latest/commands/html2po.html  but I haven't been able to make it work under Mac OS S.

If the only solution at the moment is playing with other CAT tools as follows:

1. Creating a new project with the .po file

2. Exporting it as a format CT can read (like .xliff, xlf, .html and so on)

3. Translate with CT

4. Importing to the first CAT tool and creating finals

I'd suggest using some online CAT tool like Memsource, SmartCat, WordFast anywhere or some other to avoid installing apps on the Mac.

It could work for .po and its tags cause the .po file is already segmented and tags are kept BUT it wouldn't work for other cases, for example, my BIGGEST problem with CT is the nested folders, we can do the same with those and create another legible file for CT with just one file (I use to work with huge folders containing hundred of HTML files) but here, tags are processed with the first CAT so the resulting TMX won't be useful on CT.

--

[Hans List]

Yes. I think a solution will be developed for that very soon.

[Víctor Parra García]

I hope! Is there any feature roadmap I could check? I'm seriously thinking about getting a Windows laptop for MemoQ because of those problems with CT and the others CAT for Mac I tried are still worst.

Another off-topic question: Is it possible to get ALL the TM we're using in a project to be displayed in JUST one window and getting CT sorting them by % instead of having each one on a separate window?

[Hans List]

On 04 Nov 2015, at 11:52, Víctor Parra García <victorpa...@gmail.com> wrote:

I hope! Is there any feature roadmap I could check?

I think Igor will surprise us all here! (Will chime in, was the expression I was looking for...)

I'm seriously thinking about getting a Windows laptop for MemoQ because of those problems with CT and the others CAT for Mac I tried are still worst.

And start working in memoQ or what? You can use Parallels, but I think you're aware of that.

Another off-topic question: Is it possible to get ALL the TM we're using in a project to be displayed in JUST one window

Yes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgR4Z9D8c90&feature=youtu.be (same for TMs!)

and getting CT sorting them by % instead of having each one on a separate window?

I don't think so, not sure. Perhaps you can play with display limits (wow that one is cryptic). I mean with:

From my online notes:

Fuzzy match threshold (%)

Sets the minimum accuracy of the fuzzy matches which are displayed by CafeTran.

Fuzzy match display limit:

Sets the maximum number of the fuzzy matches displayed by CafeTran.

http://cafetran.wikidot.com/the-memory-tab

[Ioannis Dimitriadis]

On Wednesday, November 4, 2015 at 12:42:12 PM UTC+2, Víctor Parra García wrote:

OmegaT is an amazing tool giving done it's a completely free piece of software, there are cool things I'd like to see even in the BIGS like MemoQ BUT at the same time, for some other stuff is quite rudimentary and the problem is that the devs work most of the time for "their needs" which means features are implemented as long as the devs think its useful for their workflow...

I was most thinking about a conversor like this: http://translate-toolkit.readthedocs.org/en/latest/commands/html2po.html  but I haven't been able to make it work under Mac OS S.

If the only solution at the moment is playing with other CAT tools as follows:

1. Creating a new project with the .po file

2. Exporting it as a format CT can read (like .xliff, xlf, .html and so on)

3. Translate with CT

4. Importing to the first CAT tool and creating finals

Just out of curiosity, what are you missing in OmegaT (especially since
the Okapi plugin is handling .po files)?

I too use it in synergy with CafeTran (on GNU/Linux).

Interoperability is in good shape between these two programs, but if one
of the two is doing a better job for a specific project, why not use for 

it till the end?

[Michael Beijer]

Hi Víctor,

On Wednesday, November 4, 2015 at 10:52:50 AM UTC, Víctor Parra García wrote:

I hope! Is there any feature roadmap I could check? I'm seriously thinking about getting a Windows laptop for MemoQ because of those problems with CT and the others CAT for Mac I tried are still worst.

The ‘backwards feature roadmap’ is here:

http://cafetran.wikidot.com/changelog (maintained my me, Hans, and now also Torsten!)

So far, only Igor has access to the ‘forward feature roadmap’ ;) 

Another off-topic question: Is it possible to get ALL the TM we're using in a project to be displayed in JUST one window and getting CT sorting them by % instead of having each one on a separate window?

Yes, I think in that case you just need to open the multiple TMs as a folder. That is, put them all in a single folder on your computer, and open this folder as a TM (via Memory > Open memory. 

2015-11-04 11:45 GMT+01:00 Hans List <hans...@gmail.com>:

Yes. I think a solution will be developed for that very soon.

On 04 Nov 2015, at 11:42, Víctor Parra García <victorpa...@gmail.com> wrote:

my BIGGEST problem with CT is the nested folders, we can do the same with those and create another legible file for CT with just one file (I use to work with huge folders containing hundred of HTML files) 

Regarding the nested folders issue: try emailing Igor, with a clear use case. Then again, he is probably already working on it ;)

Michael 

[Víctor Parra García]

Wow this group is very Active! Thanks a lot for your answers!

Regarding OmegaT missing features, there are too many for my workflow but anyway, I have been using it since version 2 and I still love it. However, I'm really afraid about TAGS.

<This email was dictated using Dragon Professional 14. Please excuse any typos!>

--

[Hans List]

You should have a look at the CafeTran Freshdesk. Speaking about activity ...

https://cafetran.freshdesk.com/support/discussions

[Hans list]

On Wednesday, November 4, 2015 at 11:42:12 AM UTC+1, Víctor Parra García wrote:

It could work for .po and its tags cause the .po file is already segmented and tags are kept BUT it wouldn't work for other cases, for example, my BIGGEST problem with CT is the nested folders,

The update includes the following changes:

1. Import of multiple documents from nested folders (subfolders).

https://cafetran.freshdesk.com/support/discussions/topics/6000021689 

[Emilie Ross]

There is absolutely nothing in this cafetran.wikidot.com that everyone keeps referring to....

[Igor Kmitowski]

Please take a look at the Knowledge Base at
https://cafetran.freshdesk.com/support/solutions which is being updated
with the new articles about the latest CafeTran 2016 - Ichiro version.
Hans L. canceled the Wiki site and replaced it with his Training Manual at
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/509643/ct/index.html

Igor

> There is absolutely nothing in this cafetran.wikidot.com that everyone
> keeps referring to....
>
> Le mercredi 4 novembre 2015 02:25:54 UTC-8, Hans List a écrit :
>>
>> Michael, don't you make notes?
>>
>> On 04 Nov 2015, at 11:22, Michael Beijer <mic...@beijer.uk

>> <javascript:>>

>> wrote:
>>
>> As far as I can remember, I used Xbench at the time
>>
>>
>> I have set up such a note taking system of my conversion attempts and
>> experiments myself: CafeTran.wikidot.com. Feel free to read it! Doe je
>> voordeel ermee.
>>
>

--
Igor Kmitowski
Translator and Java developer
CafeTran website: http://www.cafetran.com
CafeTran support: cafetran...@gmail.com

[will.helton]

I find very difficult finding anything there, too.

Will

Sent from my Samsung device

-------- Original message --------
From: Emilie Ross <rosse...@gmail.com>
Date: 27/02/2016 07:26 (GMT+00:00)
To: CafeTranslators <cafetra...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: hans...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: .po files

There is absolutely nothing in this cafetran.wikidot.com that everyone keeps referring to....

Le mercredi 4 novembre 2015 02:25:54 UTC-8, Hans List a écrit :

Michael, don't you make notes?

On 04 Nov 2015, at 11:22, Michael Beijer <mic...@beijer.uk> wrote:

As far as I can remember, I used Xbench at the time

I have set up such a note taking system of my conversion attempts and experiments myself: CafeTran.wikidot.com. Feel free to read it! Doe je voordeel ermee.

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[Víctor Parra García]

Hi Igor!

It's time to get an update of Cafetran. I will replace my macbook pro's hdd for a new sdd where I'll have both Windows and Mac again, as before.

My question is more related to the pricing. I know I bought CT longtime ago but, do I have some kind of disccount as an old user?

Thanks!

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[Víctor Parra García]

Sorry Igor, I forgot asking you something else, can I pay for the Software now (with my current hdd) and get new licence when I'll make the upgrade to the ssd?

I kind of need it but I will buy the new ssd in a month or so.

Thanks,

Víctor Parra

[Igor Kmitowski]

Hi Victor,

Early supporters, that is, the users who purchased CafeTran before 22nd April 2015 can update CafeTran to the latest version with 50% discount. Please choose your licensing option at https://www.cafetran.com/get-cafetran and contact the technical support at cafetran...@gmail.com to receive the discount coupon.

>can I pay for the Software now (with my current hdd) and get new licence when I'll make the upgrade to the ssd?

> I kind of need it but I will buy the new ssd in a month or so.

Yes, you can get the license when you upgrade to the ssd.

Cheers,

Igor

[Víctor Parra García]

Hi Igor, Im trying to contact the support for purchasing CafeTran since yesterday but I haven't got any answer :S.

[Igor Kmitowski]

Hi Victor,

You should receive an e-mail from the support soon.

Igor