Source for the narration of Ravana trying to build a stairway to svarga

[Hari Parshad Das]

Dear Vidvaj-janas,

my pranams.

I am looking for a reference in any of the Rāmāyaṇas for the narration of Rāvaṇa building a stairway to svarga.

What I have found till now: I have found a proverb quoted in the book 'Bānglā Pravāda' ( https://archive.org/details/banglapravada ):

This proverb (#7629) says — রাবনের স্বর্গের সিঁড়ি and gives some additional information that after being killed by Rāma, Rāvaṇa tried to make a stairway to heaven but could not succeed. However, it does not mention any source. It points to another proverb (#8521) as follows:

However, this proverb too does not list any Rāmāyaṇas.

I tried to look in 'Rāmāyaṇa-mīmāṁsā' in the sections where Rāvaṇa's death is described, but could not come across any pointers to a reference.

Can anyone help me in locating a reference to this narration (if there is any)? Or is simply local folklore in Bengal?

Thanks in advance.

sādhu-caraṇa-rajo 'bhilāṣī,

hari parshad das.

[Shrivathsa B]

hariH OM,

Why would rAvaNa have to construct a stairway to heaven when his mokSha is guaranteed because of having been killed by rAma?

Even if he were to be killed by someone else in the war,

द्वाविमौ पुरुषौ लोके सूर्यमण्डलभेदिनौ ।

परिव्राड् योगयुक्तश्च रणे चाभिमुखो हतः ॥

svasti,

      bhavaaniibhaaratii jayatetamaam,

                                                       shrivathsa.

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[ajit.gargeshwari]

I too concur with with Shrivatsaji. Ravana was the cursed Dvarapalaka of Vishnu his liberation is guaranteed. He was a liberated soul even before he was born. To honor the Sapta rishis curse he was born on earth. Ravana needs no stairway to go to Vaikuntha. Ravana was killed by Rama himself and his place in vaikuntha is guaranteed by that. One can add any story as one please in mythology and hence there are so many variations in floklore
Reagrads
Ajit Gargeshwari

[Nagaraj Paturi]

Dear Dr Gargeshwari,

Since I see you to be in favor of sound research methodology, let me tell you that when someone asks for a reference for a certain story/narrative involving the characters from a well known or well established mythological epic poem, we need not comment on the justifiability of the events in the narrative being searched for. 

 Various folk-versions of mythologies can not be just brushed aside as one can add any story as one pleases in mythology. Folk versions of mythologies are very important area of study that requires and is already being subjected to a systematic methodological study. 

Coming to the version of Ravana being a cursed Vishnu Paarishada, it may be noted that that version is not from Valmiki Ramayana and it is from the Bhakti /Bhaagavata versions of Ramayana. The cursing characters in that version are Sanaka, Sanandana, Sanatkumaara , Sanatsujaateeya. There could be a version in which they are mentioned as Saptarshis which I do not know. 

The version mentioned by aadaraNIya Sri Hari Paarshada Dasji is an interesting, obviously,  folk version. Many folk versions of these epic narratives have weird-looking aspects. But for that reason they need not be brushed aside.        

 

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Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

 

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

 

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

 

 

 

[Ajit Gargeshwari]

I did say say " there are so many variations in floklore" One can comment  if the folk version is apart of the main version or not. I did not say what Hari Prasad ji mentioned is not interesting nor did is say the folk lore have 'weird-looking aspects". Probably you have identified which Folklore this incident occurs?

Regards
Ajit Gargeshwari
न जायते म्रियते वा कदाचिन्नायं भूत्वा भविता वा न भूयः।
अजो नित्यः शाश्वतोऽयं पुराणो न हन्यते हन्यमाने शरीरे।।2.20।।

On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 12:06 AM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagara...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Hari Parshad Das]

On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 11:56 PM, Shrivathsa B <shrivath...@gmail.com> wrote:

hariH OM,

Why would rAvaNa have to construct a stairway to heaven when his mokSha is guaranteed because of having been killed by rAma?

Even if he were to be killed by someone else in the war,

द्वाविमौ पुरुषौ लोके सूर्यमण्डलभेदिनौ ।

परिव्राड् योगयुक्तश्च रणे चाभिमुखो हतः ॥

shrivathsa ji,

my pranams.

Often the narration of Shri Rāma, Shri Krishna etc. is depicted in the form of a nāṭaka.

In relation to a nāṭaka, there is something known as an itivṛtta, which can be roughly translated as 'plot'. Itivṛtta is categorized into three types:

1) prakhyāta (taken purely from historical incidents). Example is to base the nāṭaka's plot purely on Vālmīki Rāmāyaṇa.

2) kalpita (taken purely from the author's imagination). Example of this is Mālatīmādhava of Bhavabhūti

3) saṅkīrṇa (a.k.a. miśra, this is a combination of 1 and 2). Examples are many Nāṭakas based on Rāmakathā with somethings added by the creator of the Nāṭaka.

So in a saṅkīrṇa variety of nāṭaka, it is very much possible that such incidents can occur, even though they may be siddhāntically off the track as you pointed out.

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[Shrivathsa B]

Thanks a lot HPD.

[Nagaraj Paturi]

But, puffed up by tiny success in material advancement, sometimes the godless materialists challenge the existence of God. Rāvaṇa was one of them, and he wanted to deport ordinary men to the planet of Indra (heaven) by material means without consideration of the necessary qualifications. He wanted a staircase to be built up directly reaching the heavenly planet so that people might not be required to undergo the routine of pious work necessary to enter that planet. 

at 

http://www.vedabase.com/en/sb/1/3/22

Ravan was a great king but his one evil deed resulted in his fall. It is said that Ravan performed many good deeds, offered many sacrifices to the Gods and the Gods were also very pleased with him. Ravan wanted to live in heaven and was building a staircase to heaven. His every good deed resulted in one additional stair in the staircase. But his one evil deed resulted in his fall and closed his entry into heaven. Even today the incomplete staircase to heaven can be seen in the island of Lanka which is known today as Sri Lanka.

at

http://tanvi.mahant.com/the-ramayan/

[Ajit Gargeshwari]

What are the Sanskrit or folklore sources for these translations

Regards
Ajit Gargeshwari
न जायते म्रियते वा कदाचिन्नायं भूत्वा भविता वा न भूयः।
अजो नित्यः शाश्वतोऽयं पुराणो न हन्यते हन्यमाने शरीरे।।2.20।।

[Nagaraj Paturi]

These are not translations. One of the issues focused was whether it is limited to Bangla proverbs. 

These web links show that the narrative has wider circulation than just Bangla proverbs. 

The two texts sampled here show different perspectives. 

There is one more: This is listed among one of the unfulfilled ambitions of Ravana:

https://hinduism.stackexchange.com/questions/6494/what-were-the-three-good-things-ravana-thought-to-do/11627

Nature of oral lore itself is such that it does not provide much help in tracing the space and time origins so easily. 

[Ajit Gargeshwari]

My questions remains on the authenticity of these web sources? Where do they get the information from? What are the sources for such information? do these websites give such information. wikipedia a tertiary sources has at laeast afew links or bibiliography from which their writings are based.

Regards
Ajit Gargeshwari
न जायते म्रियते वा कदाचिन्नायं भूत्वा भविता वा न भूयः।
अजो नित्यः शाश्वतोऽयं पुराणो न हन्यते हन्यमाने शरीरे।।2.20।।

[Nagaraj Paturi]

I am just back in front of the system and noticed this post from you. 

Dr Gargeshwari,

Let us take the example of a folk tale being narrated in a web source. It is very much possible that the tale is not documented in any non-web, written or published source. We like to verify whether this tale is really a traditional folk tale that has been in the oral tradition of transmission from a considerable amount of time or the person who brought it into the web site concocted it and claimed it to be a folk tale. One way of verifying that is to see if the same is being mentioned by several mutually independent sources including web sources. If it  is being mentioned by several mutually independent sources including web sources, it supports the claim that it has been there in the oral tradition across the places and across the social groups.

When people cite or discuss stories from the memory of their oral tradition, they do not always mention, 'I heard it from my granny when I was a child' or something like that. But when people know that it is oral lore, they take it for granted that it is some such source as a granny telling bed time tales only. 

In the present case, the web sources I presented are all mutually independent and present perspectives different from each other. This verifies that the narratives have been in the oral tradition across the places and across the social groups.

 

[Ajit Gargeshwari]

Thank you this helps

Regards
Ajit Gargeshwari
न जायते म्रियते वा कदाचिन्नायं भूत्वा भविता वा न भूयः।
अजो नित्यः शाश्वतोऽयं पुराणो न हन्यते हन्यमाने शरीरे।।2.20।।

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