Was Lord Ram a vegetarian

[vanhannu]

Namo namah,

I just want to ask that during vanvaas Sita ma told Shri Ram to bring the golden deer. Some people say that they used to hunt animals for food?
Is it true?

Dhanywaad,
Pranam.

[Niranjan Ni]

Most probably not.

In the Aranya khanda we find:

मांस हेतोः अपि मृगान् विहारार्थम् च धन्विनः |
घ्नन्ति लक्ष्मण राजानो मृगयायाम् महावने || ३-४३-३१

He clearly says Kings hunt deer for flesh and being from a family of Kings he is no different. I am do not think they ate meat during vanavas since the period of tapasya has its own rules.

Since Rama clearly says to Guha during Ayodya khanda:

कुश चीर अजिन धरम् फल मूल अशनम् च माम् |
विद्धि प्रणिहितम् धर्मे तापसम् वन गोचरम् || २-५०-४४

"Know me as under a vow to be an ascetic, wearing the robes of kusha and deerskin and by piety, I am determined to live in the forest by eating roots and fruits only."

They were vegetarian during vanavasa.

I seriously doubt they were vegetarian in the palace since there would be no need to stress kanda mula when that is their normal state.

[सुदर्शनः]

Also, let us look the Govindarajiya commentary of Valmiki Ramayana's Sundarakanda's 5-36-41:

वाल्मीकिरामायणे ५-३६-४१॥न मांसं राघवो भुङ्क्ते न चापि मधुसेवते। वन्यं सुविहितं नित्यं भक्तमश्नाति पञ्चमम्॥ इति हनूमता विरहिनो रामस्य विषय उच्यते।

श्रीमद्गोविन्दराजीयव्याख्याने ॥ न मांसमिति "दृङ्मनःसङ्गसङ्कल्पजागराः कृशताऽरतिः। ह्रीत्यागोन्मादमूर्च्छान्ता इत्नङ्गदशा दश" इति दशावस्थास्वरतिरनेनोच्यते। मांसाद्यभोजनमरत्या ततः पूर्वं तद्भोजनोक्तेः । वन्यं वने भवं कन्दमूलादिकम् । सुविहितं वानप्रस्थयोगत्वेन विहितम् । भक्तमन्नम्। पञ्चमं प्रातस्सङ्गवमध्याह्नापराह्नासायंरूपेषु कालेषु  पञ्चमकालिकं शरीरधारणमात्रोपयुक्तं भुङ्क्त इत्यर्थः ॥४१॥ इति ।

The commentary infers that, if Rama has left मांसः & मधु, he must have been consuming it earlier.

इति सुदर्शनः

[Chandrasekar B]

Sita asked Lord Rama to bring the deer due to it's beauty.but not to eat.

Regarda

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[Ramanathan PS]

Respected Scholars,

I just have a working knowledge of Sanskrit. Hence, please accept my apologies for any misinformation.
Scholars are free to correct me.

Could find a few slokas with reference to SriRama's abstaining from meat.

चतुर्दश हि वर्षाणि वत्स्यामि विजने वने ।
मधुमूलफलैर्जीवन्हित्वा मुनिवदामिषम् ।।
-- (Valmiki Ramayana, Ayodhya, 20.29)

पित्रा नियुक्ता भगवन् प्रवेक्ष्यामस्तपोवनम्।
धर्ममेव चरिष्याम स्तत्र मूलफलाशनाः।।
-- (VR, Ayodhya, 54.16)

न मांसं राघवो भुङक्ते ... (VR, Sundara, 36.41) is already quoted in previous message by Sri Sudarsana.

However, came across the following too
to the contrary.

Where there is an offering of meat to the Devas, we can presume its eating too. That which man eats is also consumed by his Gods --

यदन्नः पुरुषो भवति तदन्नास्तस्य देवताः ।।
-- (VR, Ayodhya, 102.30)

सुराघटसहस्रेण मांसभूतौदनेन च ।
यक्ष्ये त्वां प्रयता देवि पुरीं पुनरुपागता ।।
-- (VR, Ayodhya, 52.89)

तौ तत्र हत्वा चतुरो महामृगान्
वराहमृश्यं पृषतं महारुरुम् ।
आदाय मेध्यं त्वरितं बुभुक्षितौ
वासाय काले ययतुर्वनस्पतिम् ।।
-- (VR, Ayodhya, 52.102)

Here from the words like हत्वा and बुभुक्षितौ
indicate their definite consumption of meat.

क्रोशमात्रं ततो गत्वा भ्रातरौ रामलक्ष्मणौ ।
बहून्मेध्यान्मृगान्हत्वा चेरतुर्यमुनावने ।।
-- (VR, Ayodhya, 55.33)

They killed an antelope in order to perform Vastu-santi of the newly built parna-sala. There is no mention of eating the meat here.

ऐणेयं मांसमाहृत्य शालां यक्ष्यामहे वयम् ।
कर्तव्यं वास्तुशमनं सौमित्रे चिरजीविभिः ।।

मृगं हत्वाऽऽनय क्षिप्रं लक्ष्मणेह शुभेक्षण ।
कर्तव्यः शास्त्रदृष्टो हि विधिर्धर्ममनुस्मर ।।

भ्रातुर्वचनमाज्ञाय लक्ष्मणः परवीरहा ।
चकार स यथोक्तं च तं राम पुनरब्रवीत् ।।

ऐणेयं श्रपयस्वैतच्छालां यक्ष्यामहे वयम् ।
त्वर सौम्य मुहूर्तोऽयं ध्रुवश्च दिवसोऽप्ययम् ।।

स लक्ष्मणः कृष्णमृगं मेध्यं हत्वा प्रतापवान् ।
अथ चिक्षेप सौमित्रिस्समिद्धे जातवेदसि ।।

तन्तु पक्वं परिज्ञाय निष्टप्तं छिन्नशोणितम् ।
लक्ष्मण: पुरुषव्याघ्रमथ राघवमब्रवीत् ।।

अयं सर्व: समस्ताग्ङ: श्रृत: कृष्णमृगो मया ।
देवतां देवसङ्काश यजस्व कुशलो ह्यसि ।।
-- (VR, Ayodhya, 56.22-28)

वन्यैर्माल्यैः फलैर्मूलैः पक्वैर्मांसैर्यथाविधि ।
अद्भिर्जपैश्च वेदोक्तैर्दर्भैश्च ससमित्कुशैः ।।
-- (VR, Ayodhya, 56.34)

इत्युक्त्वोपायनं गृह्य मत्स्यमांसमधूनि च ।
अभिचक्राम भरतं निषादाधिपतिर्गुहः ।।
-- (VR, Ayodhya, 84.10)

अस्ति मूलं फलञ्चैव निषादैस्समुपाहृतम् ।
आर्द्रं च मांसं शुष्कं च वन्यं चोच्चावचं महत् ।।
-- (VR, Ayodhya, 84.17)

इदं मेध्यमिदं स्वादु निष्टप्तमिदमग्निना ।
एवमास्ते स धर्मात्मा सीतया सह राघवः ।।
-- (VR, Ayodhya, 96.2)

समाश्वस मुहूर्तं तु शक्यं वस्तुमिह त्वया ।।
आगमिष्यति मे भर्ता वन्यमादाय पुष्कलम् ।
रुरून्गोधा न्वराहांश्च हत्वाऽदायाऽमिषान्बहून् ।।
-- (VR, Aranya, 47.22-23)

रामोऽथ सहसौमित्रिर्वनं गत्वा स वीर्यवान् ।
स्थूलान्हत्वा महारोहीननुतस्तार तं द्विजम् ।।
-- (VR, Aranya, 68.32)

रोहिमांसानि चोत्कृत्य पेशीकृत्य महायशाः।
शकुनाय ददौ रामो रम्ये हरितशाद्वले ।।
-- (VR, Aranya, 68.33)

And more ...

Meat was not forbidden in the scriptures, though a general prohibition could be found. Dharmasastras of Manu, Apastamba, and the like provide a list of consumables with exceptions. Vali too quotes the Smrti.

पञ्च पञ्च नखा भक्ष्या ब्रह्मक्षत्रेण राघव ।
शल्यकः श्वाविधो गोधा शशः कूर्मश्च पञ्चमः ।।
-- (VR, Kishkindha, 17.38)

Manu 5.56 says, abstaining from meat generates great results.

न मांसभक्षणे दोषो ... ।
प्रवृत्तिरेषा भूतानां निवृत्तिस्तु महाफला ।।

Ramanathan PS

[V Subrahmanian]

In the searchable VasishTha Dharma sutra too one can find the injunction for meat offering and censure of not consuming it on certain occasions. It however, prohibits meat for sannyasins.

http://peterffreund.com/Vedic_Literature/kalpa/dharma/vasishtha_dharma_sutra.html

regards

subrahmanian.v

[Jsr Prasad]

1. In the first place, Sriramachandra was a Kshatriya, so meat consumption is not prohibited in Dharmashastra. 

2. Manu's verse 5.56 suggests to enhance the sattva guna by nivrtti, to attain moksha - the ultimate goal of human life

[Vandana Mishra]

Namo namah,

Pls give detail either in chart or pictorial form of heirarcy of our ancient literature s along with their respective Rishimuni names...veda, Puran, Upnishads etc

Dhanywaad.

Vandana Mishra.

--

[Nagaraj Paturi]

Sri Vandana Mishra-ji,

Please visit https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/bvparishat

Click "New Post"

Create new post for your ideas.

They don't belong to this thread. 

--

Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

Director, Indic Academy of Sanskrit and Indological Studies.

BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra

BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

 

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

 

 

 

[Vandana Mishra]

Ji. Awashay.

Kshama prarathi huin.

On Thu, 11 Oct, 2018, 11:41 PM Nagaraj Paturi, <nagara...@gmail.com> wrote:

This message is eligible for Automatic Cleanup! (nagara...@gmail.com) Add cleanup rule | More info

Sri Vandana Mishra-ji,

Please visit https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/bvparishat

Click "New Post"

Create new post for your ideas.

They don't belong to this thread. 

On Thu, Oct 11, 2018 at 11:22 PM Vandana Mishra <vanh...@gmail.com> wrote:

--

Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

Director, Indic Academy of Sanskrit and Indological Studies.

BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra

BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

 

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

 

 

 

--

[Nagaraj Paturi]

'Hinduism' has never been a completely vegetarian culture. Non-vegetarian food habits were and are part of the traditional food habits of certain caste groups and almost all tribal groups. That was never viewed as violation of norms of 'Hinduism'. 

Diversity of food culture was part of diversity that is the hallmark of 'Hinduism'. 

On Tuesday, October 9, 2018 at 5:51:21 PM UTC+5:30, vanhannu wrote:

[Srivatsa B R]

Prof. Paturi,

Very well and aptly said 🙏

Shrivatsa

Srivatsa B R

Senior Linguist & Faculty (English) - ACTS

Centre for Development of Advanced Computing (C-DAC)

'Knowledge Park', # 1, Old Madras Road, Baiyappanahalli, Near Baiyappanahalli Metro Station,

Bengaluru - 560 038

Karnataka, India

--

[V Subrahmanian]

Someone sent me a small collection:

Manusmriti 

chapter 5 verse30:

"It is not sinful to eat meat of eatable animals,for God has created both the eaters and the eatables".

Aapastanba Grishsutram(1/3/10):

says, "The cow should be slaughtered on the arrival of a guest, on the occasion of 'Shraaddha of ancestors and on the occasion of a marriage".

Rigveda (10/85/13): declares, "On the occasion of a girls marriage oxen and cows are slaughtered".

Rigveda (6/17/1) : states that, "Indra used to eat the meat of cow, calf, horse and buffalo".

Vashishta Dharmasutra (11/34): says, "If a Brahmin refuses to eat the meat offered to him on the occasion of ,'Shraaddha' he goes to hell".

Hinduisms great propagator Swami Vivekaanand said thus: "You will be surprised to know that according to ancient Hindu rite and rituals, a man cannot be a good Hindu who does not eat beef ".

(The complete works of Swami Vivekanand vol :3/5/36) 

"The book The history and culture of the indian people" – published by Bharatiya vidya bhawan, Mumbai and edited by renowned historian R C Majumdar (vol 2, page 18 says): This is said in the mahabharata that "king Ratindra used to kill 2000 other animals in addition to 2000 cows daily in order to give their meat in charity"

There is also a reference in Brahadaranyako panishad for consumption of particular meat preparation for obtaining particular type of offspring.

regards

subrahmanian.v

On Fri, Oct 12, 2018 at 11:33 AM Srivatsa B R <brsri...@gmail.com> wrote:

Prof. Paturi,

Very well and aptly said 🙏

[Venkata Sriram]

Namaste,

Scriptures are quoted left & right in forums and taking this as pramANa, dalit intellectuals are celebrating beef festival !!!  

Certain rites & rituals have been prescribed under certain controlled circumstances which was restricted to that particular ritual only.  We are been made fun by dalits, abrahmic religions for these aspects.

rgs,

sriram

[Srivatsa B R]

Dear Shri. Sriram,

You spoke my mind. Circumstances and situations, which are of utmost importance are completely omitted. This is an excellent example of generalization, misinterpretation and misunderstanding.

Shrivatsa

======================================================================================

Srivatsa B R

Senior Linguist & Faculty (English) - ACTS

Centre for Development of Advanced Computing (C-DAC)

'Knowledge Park', # 1, Old Madras Road, Baiyappanahalli, Near Baiyappanahalli Metro Station,

Bengaluru - 560 038

Karnataka, India

[Vandana Mishra]

So, If our Lord eats meat, then if a non Hindu asks us that "what kind of god u have who drinks and eats meat? does he not feel pain by killing n hunting ? Is he or she not caring ? how shall we argue then?

On Fri, Oct 12, 2018 at 10:56 AM Nagaraj Paturi <nagara...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Vandana Mishra]

Meaning, we can argue saying that its situation based and not in general promoted in Hinduism. Right?

Also since we have Smritis, which are time dependent , changeable and should be rewritten according to current time, we Hindus are allowed to stop promoting the meat eating in current scenario? Right?

On Fri, Oct 12, 2018 at 12:29 PM Venkata Sriram <srira...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Jsr Prasad]

Vandana ji,

Meaning, we can argue saying that its situation based and not in general promoted in Hinduism. Right?

It is yes, in case of emergencies, wherein you are left with no option but to eat meat/non vegetarian only to save your precious life. 

 

Also since we have Smritis, which are time dependent , changeable and should be rewritten according to current time,

On what authority we rewrite smrtis? That is not the purport discussed here. We suppose to follow Parashara in Kaliyuga, कलौ पाराशरस्मृतिः. but we are following Manu based on its relevance. Once Sringeri Mahaswamiji were asked, can you suggest to re-write Dharmashastra suitable to current times? 'We are not sitting in this Peetha to encourage such endeavours' was His answer. 

we Hindus are allowed to stop promoting the meat eating in current scenario? Right?

Obviously this could be done, as tons of literature is available in this direction. 

[Siddharth Wakankar]

Dear inquisitive friend,

Formerly,in the period of the Brahmana.texts,an Atithi was known as a Go.ghna,meaning,for whose meal, a cow was killed.

In the Uttararamacharita of Bhavabhuti also,you find such a reference.

Moreover,hunting was one of the pastimes of the Kings,enjoined by Smrutis.

Why should we feel ashamed if our Gods etc. eat meat.It was their aahaara.thats all.The matter ends there.

Sorry for this frank opinion which could be difficult to digest.

Prof. Siddharth Y Wakankar.

[Jsr Prasad]

So, If our Lord eats meat, then if a non Hindu asks us that "what kind of god u have who drinks and eats meat? does he not feel pain by killing n hunting ? Is he or she not caring ? how shall we argue then?

 

We discuss about a Kshatriya king, who was permitted to consume non vegetarian food. If he's not allowed to do so, it is the violation of Rajadharma. As a prince in exile, he had killed many demons and punished appropriately the evil doers. What was his authority? In spite of he being in exile, he was still the prince under whose jurisdiction, subjects should act and behave. This is the answer to episodes like Vali-vadha.

Next, who made him god? Is not we?? He says humbly - आत्मानं मानुषं मन्ये (I consider myself as a mere human). He is said to be the embodiment of Dharma as reiterated by Marica. how a human being should endure the difficulties and hardships in life was the clear message of Rama's character. In stead of copying it we are misled by statements like Rama is your god, and your god eats meat.. and so on and so forth. 

Otherwise, it is something like we try to make a distinction between veg and non-veg gods. Let us only talk about a strong, valiant, dharmic human being who surpassed all unprecedented problems, created by Vidhi. 

Just now I saw a reply by Prof. Wakankar ji, with regard to hunting. Mrigayaa is allowed for kings in ancient India.

[V Subrahmanian]

On Fri, Oct 12, 2018 at 12:29 PM Venkata Sriram <srira...@gmail.com> wrote:

Namaste,

Scriptures are quoted left & right in forums and taking this as pramANa, dalit intellectuals are celebrating beef festival !!!  

Certain rites & rituals have been prescribed under certain controlled circumstances which was restricted to that particular ritual only. 

Dear Sriram ji,

I am not sure if the above is exactly the case. Take for instance:

Swami Vidyaranya has, in his Jivanmukti viveka, in the Vasanakshaya prakaranam, mentioned that the South Indians fault the Northerners (brahmins) for their meat-eating habits and the latter taunt the former for their practice of girls marrying their maternal uncles and so on. So there is this 'vasana' to hold one's own practices as high and fault  those of others as censurable.  Such vasana according to the author  is not conducive to spirituality.   

This was in the 14th Century CE. Surely, I think he was not unaware of the 'controlled' conditions aspect. It also shows that during those times, the Southerners (brahmins) were not in the habit of eating meat. Even today in parts of India there is animal sacrifice:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2A_GHF5xn8

[Inside Kamakhya Temple, Guwahati, Assam - Pasubali Area inside Maa Kamakhya Temple of Guwahati (Assam).]

Another video with the caption:   

[Brahmin Hindu pandit slaughters goat : Durga Puja Bali or sacrificial offering in Bihar]

I don't think these are really 'controlled' conditions. 

I think, in the South, Brahmins gave up (a supposed practice of meat eating) perhaps because of the influence of the Three Acharyas.  This is my guess, though. 

The ancient smrits, books, are available in translation too, these days. Anyone can access them and see, read, interpret the passages and use them for their agenda.

warm regards

subrahmanian.v 

 

 

[Nagaraj Paturi]

Vandana-ji,

First of all, please come out of this mode : " If meat eating is bad, it is bad for all. All must stop eating meat. Or if meat eating is OK, it should be OK for all. All should be allowed to eat meat. "

This mode of thinking comes from the uniformity oriented worldview. 'Hinduism' is a diversity-oriented and diversity-centric pluralist worldview/culture. 

If you keep worrying about what others say, you can not understand Yama, the 'god' of death taking 'life' of every creature away. If they ask you, "Your god yama takes away life", then? you can not understand Shiva being layakaari. If they say, your god Shiva destroys (in fact what Shiva does is not destruction, it is devolution. but ifthey say), then?

-----------------

If you want Rama to do what you do or you want to do what Rama did, it is not possible. Rama wore a crown, do you want to wear? Rama did not use a fossil fuel driven vehicle. Do you want to stop using? Rama faced difficulties in life to make his father's promise to one of his wives true. Can you do such things in your own life?  

[Niranjan Ni]

Nagaraji ji-- Very valid points you have made here. Sri Prabhupada used to say first drink an ocean of poison and then claim to be Shiva.

I am surprised how modern Hindus are more interested in conformity to modern idiosyncracies rather than trying to understand their past unfiltered.

[L Srinivas]

Act IV of uttararamacaritam ought to be read in this context for a contrast between the eating habits of Vasishtha and Janaka :) 

Srini

[Niranjan Ni]

The story of Agastya accepting Ilvala's brother vatapi cooked as a goat when he accepted the hospitality of the Asura shows that the consumption of meat went beyond the controlled conditions of a Yajna etc even with Brahmins. I have read in certain versions that Agastya cursed meat eating and since the south follows Agastya they adopted those practices.

Having said that, the meat was also sanctified by first offering to the deities and Lord of Sacrifice. Indiscriminate slaughter was not followed and only animals with certain markings were selected. It was ensured that the animal received a higher yoni and obtained mukti from the yoni it was being sacrificed in. This is very different from modern factory farming

[Nagaraj Paturi]

Agastya drank the whole of ocean. 

It appears that Brahmins had the habit of drinking ocean.  

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[Niranjan Ni]

Drinking the ocean like drinking poison is the exhibition of a vibhuti. It is not a normal act.

To compare that with consumption of meat by Brahmins in a previous era would be erroneous.

[Kalyan K]

We should be indebted to Jainism for giving us the practice of vegetarianism.

[Shrikant Jamadagni]

Dear Kalyan

Vegetarianism is much lauded and recommended in Manusmriti. Are you saying that is influenced by Jainism? Is it established that Jainas were the pioneers of vegetarianism? 

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

On Fri, 12 Oct 2018 at 5:58 p.m., Kalyan K

<pk.k...@gmail.com> wrote:

We should be indebted to Jainism for giving us the practice of vegetarianism.

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[V Subrahmanian]

On Fri, Oct 12, 2018 at 7:12 PM 'Shrikant Jamadagni' via भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत् <bvpar...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Dear Kalyan

Vegetarianism is much lauded and recommended in Manusmriti.

The Vasishtha dharma sutras too prohibit the sannyasin from consuming meat.

regards

 

[Nagaraj Paturi]

There was an old thread here on this topic. 

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[Nagaraj Paturi]

Sri Niranjan Ni-ji,

My intention was to say that the food habits found in puraaNa texts can not be quoted for "Brahmins once ate this" kind of conclusions. 

Interestingly individuals (not you or those like you) who claim to be historically critical and as such would maintain a clear distinction between mythology and history freely quote from mythology as if it is history when they find that such quoting helps them in manipulating the present generation's attitude towards " Hinduism", " Hindu food habits" etc. Some Hindu youngsters like such manipulations as they are useful to justify their newly acquired food habits against their family traditions. Some other Hindu youngsters get annoyed at such interpretations and express disbelief at puraaNas having such descriptions, getting trapped into the self-contradicting -mythology as history- trick played by the historical critical writers. The present thread began with the expression of such a disbelief only. Hence my response. 

I wish I could help these youngsters understand all these complex nuances; but I know that it is not easy. 

[Rishi Goswami]

Dear schollars,

It is my bAlabuddhi and I shouldn't interfere in conversation, but according to me it's important to have all types of Vargas in society to maintain Vyavastha and Santulana.

Skiled and Unskilled both sectors are equally important similarly veg and non veg also.

We have all types of eating habits in the jungle which might have been anukrita by Rishis.
Herbivores
Carnivores
Omnivores and
Scavengers.

If we don't have any of the one, we will have issues in the food chain. Since Humans are Omnivores, we needed to make some rules to balance the food system.

If we only had vegetarian food, we would cut jungles to plough fields. Result would be disastrous for animals as well for their homes would get destroyed.and we know the disasters of deforestation.
If we only had non veg like in stone age, we would be killing entire biodiversity for hunger.

Now the circumstances are such that each person should become veg as global warming issues and many other issues. If we're consuming animals today, we're doing so much injustice towards them, as for having good meat, we need food and grains to keep animals healthy and that meat is given to us, so we're actually wasting grains as well as meat. Dharma changes according circumstances as Yudhishthir says in Mahabharata.

य एव धर्मः सोSधर्मोSदेशकाले प्रतिष्ठितः।।

According Desha and Kaala Paristhiti today, going completely vegetarian is the perfect solution but in days when population was in control, there was a requirement to have both types of people to deal with ecological stability.

Basically, eating Plants also is a kind of Himsa in Hinduism, because they're also Jeevas.

जीवो जीवस्य जीवनम् Is basically the eternal law of nature which can't be changed.

There are 5 inevitable Paaps that all humans commit and hence Hinduism prescribes Vishvedeva Puja to be free of those 5 Paaps. It should be performed by All, irrespective of caste. It is one of the compulsory rituals, like Antim Samskara and Shraddha of Pitridevas.

The 5 Rinas also inckude Bhootarina where Humans nees to revere and respect Nature, 5 elements which is the most basic key point of Hinduism and is the least focused part unfortunately. Mukti from5 Rinas and not commiting 5 Mahapatakas, doing the 5 Mahayajnas and Vishvedeva Puja for the 5 inevitable Paapas, Ahimsa, Satya, Daana and Yajnas are some of the basic key elements of Hinduism, each Manushyamatra is accustomed to follow irrespective of caste.

Hence, I think even eating plants = eating animals. There's no difference. But the rules are laid down for ecological balance and sustainance of Vyavastha. Hence Varna system was called Vyavastha by Rishis.

Hinduism is therefore the most logical and scientific religion ever, the rules laid down seem to be in the benefit of everyone. The key element or Hetu for DharmaShastras was only Bhadra, Kalyana. Hence Dharma is defined yato'bhyudaya-nihshreyasa-siddhih sa dharmah ajd Sukhasya mulam dharmah.

It is just my speculation according to what I've been thinking. If at all I'm wrong due to bAlabuddhi, please do correct me.

Regards.
Rishi.

[Vandana Mishra]

Dhanywaad. Ji.

Aab main Apne mitron Ko samjha sakti huin ki Shri Ram Kyun mansa hari the.!

[Gaurav Shorey]

May I please add to this thread? 

In our traditional knowledge systems, we had knowledge of herbs, roots and plants that were several fold more potent than the nutrition that is provided by controlled agricultural practices of today. Additionally, the soil of jungles is extremely rich in nutrients, and resultantly, what grows there, way more powerful, provided someone has the knowledge. To add to this, most Gurukuls headed by Rshis were located in Jungles (another meaning of the word 'Gotra' - means 'Forest' (http://spokensanskrit.org/index.php?mode=3&script=hk&tran_input=gotra&direct=au)

Codices on Ayurveda, I am certain, still contain such knowledge, and several scholars on this group will shed light on that.. 

Therefore, it is highly likely that one could practice being "vegetarian" but not in today's interpretation of the term. 

Also, I think the topic of Shaak versus Paak has been discussed before on another thread. And from my recollection, shakaahaari simply means when one eats raw / uncooked vegetables. Does my memory serve this groups requirements? Please correct me if I am wrong. 

So, in one opinion that I present here, one can practice vegetarianism with the right knowledge of plants, and herbs. 

I may be entirely incorrect though. 

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साधारण नागरिक

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भारत

सदस्य - स्वराज - एक राष्ट्रीय, गैर सरकारी सँस्था - सोसाइटीज रजिस्ट्रेशन एक्ट, १८६० के तहत पंजीकृत।
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At TEDx (Bandra, Mumbai) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbduMNSQm94

[Nagaraj Paturi]

In one of the posts in the thread, the phrase कंदमूलफल  often used in treference to the food of the Rishis is mentioned. 

Jains do not use कंद  & मूल . This is another evidence to show that the vegetarianism of Rishis is not influenced by Jainism. 

[L Srinivas]

This is a very good point. 

It's ignorance to attribute every ancient custom to the influence of Jainism just because today it's seen much more among the Jainas. One example comes to my mind. School and university Tamil text books consistently teach that the practice of sitting in one place and ritually starving oneself to death, encountered frequently in the ancient Tamil texts, is a Jaina practice. It's rarely ever mentioned that the same practice is encountered under the name of 'prāyopaveśa' in Ramayana and other 'Hindu' texts. 

Srini

[rniyengar]

I agree with you Srinivas. It would be wrong to conclude that Ahimsa and Vegetarianism is soley due to Jain influence. In ancient times and even in historical times were Jains 100% vegetarians? 

On the other hand JC Jain in his authoritative book (Life in Ancient India as per Jain canons, 1947  available at Archives ) describing the food habits of Jains in ancient times has the following to say. (Extracts without violence to the original text, since it is too long)

 "Ordinarily a Jain layman or monk..was prohibited from..NV food.. Among the articles..wine, meat are mentioned along with rice, curds, milk etc as food received by monks while begging..., question arose what a monk should do if bony flesh or bony fish was offered in his bowl. It is stated that he should avoid bones and ask for flesh....Here the commentator mentions that majja (wine) and maamsa may be accepted as a cure for `luuta' a kind of disease ...from a spider, at the instance of a physician. Besides,...in the country SINDHU people lived on meat.... Under such circumstances a saadhu was allowed..NV food. (Brihatkalpa Bhaashya 1.1239). Lastly it has been stated in the Viyaaha....,Revati a follower of Mahavira sent him maarjaara-krita-kukkuTa-maamsa for the cure of the disease. The commentator Abhayadeva provides two meanings for this (a)Flesh of a cock killed by a cat. (b)A plant of species Virala mixed with citron.." 

 He (the author JC Jain) concludes "..when no other food was available except meat...Jain monks....were obliged to take it rather than starve them to death.."

Discussions about Hinduism & Culture can be confusing (often self contradictory) in the absence of proper historical perspective.

RN Iyengar

[Siddharth Wakankar]

It may be brought to the notice of the scholars that the great Hindu patriot,Svatantryaveer Vinayak Damodar Savarkar,staying in the locality of Shivaji Park in Mumbai,undertook Praayopaveshana and laid down his life as recently as 26thFebruary,1966, openly announcing and practising the Hindu method of Praayopaveshana.

Prof. Siddharth Y Wakankar.

[V Subrahmanian]

We have in the Mahabharatha, Bhishma relating to a story of sthithaprajna.  There occur these verses:

https://sa.wikisource.org/s/2w3  

कणं कदाचित्खादामि पिण्याकमपि च ग्रसे। भक्षये शालिमांसानि भक्षांश्चोच्चावचान्पुनः।।	12-177-21a 12-177-21b
शये कदाचित्पर्यङ्के भूमावपि पुनः शये। प्रासादे चापि मे शय्या कदाचिदुपपद्यते।।	12-177-22a 12-177-22b

What is significant is that this comes from a sthitaprajna.  These verses, at length, are cited by Lakshmidhara in his Kritya kalpataru, Mokshakanda.  A mukta's food habits, his being unaffected by whatever is obtained by chance, are stated there. These are admitted to be advice for mumukshus in Vedanta.  

regards

subrahmanian.v

[L Srinivas]

Thank you, Prof Iyengar. This is an illuminative quote indeed.

Srini