Mugging incident on the night of 300k kgf brevet

[Chidambaran Subramanian]

One of the riders , Shaunak got waylaid during the 300k brevet in Bangalore and robbed at 11:30 in the night in Hosur city. He was cut off by a motorcycle, and quickly roughed up, his money + mobile + cycle pump + front/rear lights taken from him, and the robbers quickly escaped. No chance for him to note the regn number , etc.

To my knowledge this is the 1st such incident that has happenned on a ride (brevet or otherwise) that I've been involved in any way so far for the past 4+ years. 

We've been having internal discussions on how to prevent incidents of this kind ( of course we can't be 100%) in the future. But I wish to emphasize , and would suggest that the message is taken across that Brevets are fully self supported rides. For the coming night brevets in April/may we will be issuing clear guideliness with do's and don'ts (including riding in groups , etc)  to prevent such incidents as much as possible.

Obviously we can't and won't be able to escort every brevet rider. What we are going to try and do is that we have someone protecting the slower riders (within the rules permissible in the brevet) bringing up the rear. 

This one incident might change how we conduct Brevets, at least in Bangalore. For some time I was toying with the idea of cancelling some rides -- but have decided against it after getting some feedback from others. We have to keep in mind that the brevet calendar has been planned and published well in advance and a lot of people have made plans around it. 

Comments welcome and invited.

Regards

Chiddu

[Ganesh Ks]

Hi Chidu,

I was thinking about this and realised that on the CAM rides they do have the concept of escort/support vehicles riding along with the group. They strategically place themselves between different ride groups throughout to be able to support the entire group. These vehicles carry a lot of supplies to help the group during rides itself and sweep riders after the cut-off ride time. Since Brevet is a self-supported ride, we could limit primarily being escort vehicle. Below is a list of points we can consider:

1.       First and foremost, these vehicles will primarily only be ESCORT vehicles and double up as support only in case of emergencies.

2.       They can ride along with the group and monitor and report back ride status to the main control.

3.       Carry bare minimum medical / energy supplies to be used only if it’s an emergency.

4.       If a rider decides to quit at any point of the ride or if there is an accident or mugging incident, the rider needs to be head to the nearest safe spot or the closest town and report back to the escort vehicles with the location. The volunteers in the escort can then help these riders on their way back home. (There is nothing more re-assuring than to know that there is somebody to help when  you are in distress)

5.       Besides I think it’s also worthwhile to publish a list of key contact numbers of the medical centres, police stations, 24/7 support vehicles. Refreshment centres on route.

These are just quick thoughts. It might be easier said than done. Besides this will be possible only if this does not violate the rules of the brevet of being a self-supported ride.

But nevertheless this is food for thought.

Regards
Ganesh

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[Opendro]

I stick to the following dos:
 - carry a cheap cellphone whose battery will last for 10 days and cheap - Nokia 105 costs 1100. Just make sure you use the rear side of the phone as the ear speaker as it is more audible that side. If you are rich, you can buy a Nokia 114 for Rs. 2400 with similar battery life, camera, MP3, 3G, bluetooth, FM, etc. with pre-installed browser, facebook, etc.
 - carry little cash. Carry an ATM card that has less than 10K as balance.

Riding in a group is fun and better for security. But this is a tricky part if the riders are differently paced.

The rest is out of our hand - just hope that they are not after our life. The most expensive material should be the cycle.

[Jayaprakash E]

I stopped carrying debit/credit cards to avoid any manhandling by muggers. I carry little cash & I know exactly what I will lose (a watch, a mobile, a office laptop + little cash) However we need to carry ATM cards for brevets. How this can be avoided? Is there any alternatives for it?

[Jayaprakash E]

The scenario I explained in the previous post is my daily routine, not the brevet.

[anil s kadsur]

That is what I was wondering for a second, do you carry laptop to Brevets!?

Then realized may be for commuting....

very truly,
anil s kadsur
http://kadsur.blogspot.in/

---

From: Jayaprakash E <jaya...@gmail.com>

Sender: bangalor...@googlegroups.com

Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2014 21:53:56 -0700 (PDT)

To: <bangalor...@googlegroups.com>

Subject: Re: [BBC] Mugging incident on the night of 300k kgf brevet

The scenario I explained in the previous post is my daily routine, not the brevet.

[george...@gmail.com]

Two years back when I needed some help, Highway Patrol had good prescence in the Hosur-Krishnagiri highway during nights. May be, we can get their control room number and if possible a helpful SI's number and pass it on to the participants?

[Opendro]

Carry an ATM card with balance less than 10K. Why 10K... you might need for yourself at times.

[Jayaprakash E]

Opendro, that is a good suggestion. I can think of applying for another ATM card. But it may not be the case for many others,

[ratnaveer dharmane]

Such things are unavoidable. I consider this as part of brevet ride(the definition of brevet for me is "Beat All Odds"). When we can ride 1000s / 600s / 400s, we should be ready to face such situations. My strategy in long rides / brevet rides is, never tell anyone that you are riding alone, even if you are riding alone. Always tell 15+ people started, some quit, two are ahead and few behind. Cost of bike ? Why you are doing this ? Where you are headed to ?  etc..? etc.. ? In all these queries, I never tell the truth. Basically keep the folks confused. If nothing works and you have to deal with it, just give away everything they want. One can always buy new one.

[vivek]

Support vehicle is a good idea. How about a couple of motorbikes for a start? They will not exactly be a support vehicle but if co-ordinated well can be very useful. That way the cost will also be low, because of which it a easier to implement or try out compared to a four wheeler.

Regards,

Vivek

[Opendro]

Easier way is to park your cash as 6 days FD or something like that. Why do we need so much cash balance anyway? :-)

Ratnaveer, telling lies may not come so naturally for everyone. I for instance will be caught even by the dumbest kid. That includes even the cost of bike, number of riders, destination, etc.

[Chidambaran Subramanian]

Give credit to people's awareness levels. Once a rider was asked how much a bike cost around a village -- he said 10k or something. (check the numbers, its there in an old bbc thread) The kid apparently told him to just wait, he'll pay cash in full and take the bike. He had to beat a hasty retreat apparently

Chiddu

--

[Kashyap Raval]

Tell the folks that you murdered a guy and took his bike :D

[Mohammad Rafi Shaik]

Hello,

Most of the brevet events organised in south India are dam cheap, now adding support vehicle(brakes the rule of Brevets which are self supported rides) will make them quite expensive. Organizers are doing their best voluntarily.

Quitting - inform organizers and arrange own transport.

Mugging - support vehicle / organizers can not help such incidents.. . carry a pepper spray, take support of high way petrol.. Night rides try to stick in a team...

Accident - take locals support, 108 and get first aid near by hospitals.

with regards

Mohammmad Rafi

[Blackmamba]

pepper spray may deter muggers at that few minutes but definitely you cannot out run them, in turn they may harm you more vigorously, 

motive for these muggers is money, so best thing is, as opendro mentioned carry basic/ cheap cell phone, no cash more than required, best is dead atm card, or atm card with less money. in case of attack, just hand over these things and move on and complain to the nearest police station. your safety should be priority.

[santosh kumar]

+1 Rafi

Cheers
Santosh

[Sreepathi Pai]

You should be able to carry a gift card for a small amount from most
banks these days. These cards mostly cannot be used to withdraw money,
but can be used to check balance.

Afterall, a timestamp is the only thing we need.

On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 11:45 PM, Jayaprakash E <jaya...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I stopped carrying debit/credit cards to avoid any manhandling by muggers. I carry little cash & I know exactly what I will lose (a watch, a mobile, a office laptop + little cash) However we need to carry ATM cards for brevets. How this can be avoided? Is there any alternatives for it?
>

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>
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[Jayaprakash E]

Wonderful idea. Checked the net. These are available with 1 year validity. Will explore it further.

[aniruddha rao]

Do relisrays/volini have same effect as pepper sprays. If they do everyone must carry them. Can acts in two ways.

[berkeleydb]

Hi Chiddu,

Thanks for starting this discussion.  It was quite distressing that night, at the end control point, hearing about the incident, and then seeing the logistics being put together by Sohan to help Shaunak get back.  Finally when you got Shaunak back to the end control point in your car, we could see he was quite shaken up.  I hope he is doing ok.

Since the beginning of the Brevets in Bangalore a few years back, I have wondered about the safety aspects; more so wrt the night stretches.  Both from a traffic perspective, as well as mugging incidents like this one.  I'll make a few points here, which may seem critical of the organisers, but being critical is_not my intent.  I simply want to put these points across so that they can be discussed directly.  Let me add here itself that over and above everything else, the effort and spirit of the organisers and riders, in the Bangalore Brevets (as well as Brevets all over India), is inspiring, more than anything else.  To see so much being done at the amateur level -- just for pure love of cycling -- is just amazing.

The points I wanted to put across -- 

* If (any) organisers do feel that there are real / present risks of incidents like this occurring on Brevets, it's disappointing that the concerns aren't highlighted in the lead up to each ride.  It should_not take an incident to bring these into focus.

* I hope organisers will take a fresh look at any/all concerns.  Getting medical attention to riders, god forbid incase there is an accident, is one concern.

* Are we 'following a fad' in some ways, by pursuing such affiliated rides that require adhering to rules, that I get a sense seem to limit the measures we would like to take in some cases?  Would the best interests of the cycling community be served better if (unaffiliated) rides 'modelled' along the Brevet rules are organised, with some rules modified based on conditions here?

I hope these above points are taken in the right spirit.  As for the other part of this thread -- inputs on what we could do to prevent or handle such incidents -- I'll put my points in a separate post.

thanks,  -{db}.

[Sreepathi Pai]

On Sat, Mar 29, 2014 at 5:14 PM, berkeleydb <dha...@gmail.com> wrote:

> The points I wanted to put across --
>
> * If (any) organisers do feel that there are real / present risks of
> incidents like this occurring on Brevets, it's disappointing that the
> concerns aren't highlighted in the lead up to each ride. It should_not take
> an incident to bring these into focus.

Indeed. I think the organizers should put up a list of all such
incidents, suitably anonymized.

> * Are we 'following a fad' in some ways, by pursuing such affiliated rides
> that require adhering to rules, that I get a sense seem to limit the
> measures we would like to take in some cases? Would the best interests of
> the cycling community be served better if (unaffiliated) rides 'modelled'
> along the Brevet rules are organised, with some rules modified based on
> conditions here?

The rules of the BRM are non-negotiable if riders want to ride the PBP.

But most mature randonneuring communities have non-ACP rides, and I
think Bangalore should too. I'm not sure how many ride for the medal
and/or ACP certification opposed to those who ride for the
distance/challenge, etc., but that's just a cultural mindset that may
have to be overcome.

[Arvind P]

lets arrange some taekwondo and kung fu sessions sometime for all cyclists. This will help in self-defense. But whether we will have the energy for self-defense after riding 300+ kms, i dont know!! 

On Friday, March 28, 2014 7:12:46 AM UTC+5:30, Chidambaran S( Chiddu) wrote:

[Arvind P]

Other than this, I am not going to participate in brevets for the next few months. Meanwhile I can volunteer for the duration of the brevet and be on stand-by with my mo-bike if there is an emergency somewhere. if its a longer than 200km brevet I can camp somewhere half-way if it is allowed under the rules and help incase of an emergency.

We can form a team of few volunteers who are free but not riding that particular ride so that help can reach faster.

Again as I said, I dont know whether it falls within the rules. Let me know if its a good idea, we can discuss further.

Thanks..

[berkeleydb]

...

On Sunday, March 30, 2014 5:56:51 AM UTC+5:30, Sree wrote:

On Sat, Mar 29, 2014 at 5:14 PM, berkeleydb <dha...@gmail.com> wrote:

> The points I wanted to put across --
>
> * If (any) organisers do feel that there are real / present risks of
> incidents like this occurring on Brevets, it's disappointing that the
> concerns aren't highlighted in the lead up to each ride.  It should_not take
> an incident to bring these into focus.

Indeed. I think the organizers should put up a list of all such
incidents, suitably anonymized.

Thanks for taking note.  ... 

 

> * Are we 'following a fad' in some ways, by pursuing such affiliated rides
> that require adhering to rules, that I get a sense seem to limit the
> measures we would like to take in some cases?  Would the best interests of
> the cycling community be served better if (unaffiliated) rides 'modelled'
> along the Brevet rules are organised, with some rules modified based on
> conditions here?

The rules of the BRM are non-negotiable if riders want to ride the PBP.

Ya, am aware of that.  To keep that option, ACP rides should continue.  ... 

 

 

But most mature randonneuring communities have non-ACP rides, and I
think Bangalore should too. I'm not sure how many ride for the medal
and/or ACP certification opposed to those who ride for the
distance/challenge, etc., but that's just a cultural mindset that may
have to be overcome.

I personally like the recognition, in addition to the challenge.  But a medal / certificate from the local organisers of non-ACP rides would be just as good for me.  (And anyway, no one outside my cycling circles knows BRM. :))

Anyway, the primary issue is whether there are BRM rules which organisers feel don't gel well with conditions here, to merit having non-ACP rides.

thx,  -{db}.

[berkeleydb]

Re: how to cope with such eventualities -- 

* The idea of having a 'gift' debit card, with limited amount, sounds interesting.  Infact, a 'second' debit card, with a hard withdrawal limit, which could be 'replenished' repeatedly, would be even more convenient.  Just replenish it with say Rs2-3K, before each ride.  Rather than getting a 'gift' debit card from time to time, or maintaining a separate low balance account.

* Similarly, the idea of having a cheap / basic mobile is a very practical one.  One may miss Google maps, but I suppose relying more on the cue sheet is the answer.  (The longer battery life of the basic mobile phones is also a boon.  I went for a fairly basic Samsung mobile last year, for my longer bicycle rides.  I wanted one with a micro-USB charger, so that if needed, it's easier to find a charger at some roadside shop.  For that reason, I had to buy a model which was Rs2K+, otherwise there are models for ~Rs1K, as others said.)  One may also want to keep a list of personal emergency numbers, in addition to the Brevet emergency numbers.

* Taking the above a step further, I was thinking -- if we can somehow manage to keep an extra concealed debit card (or cash) + mobile phone on us, we will have some immediate fallback support at hand.  Concealing a debit card would be easier; but will be tricky to do so with a mobile.  If we have a specially designed t-shirt or shorts, with a concealed pocket or two, in a place that someone may_not think of checking, we might be able to get away with an extra set.  Ofcourse, the effectiveness of these would be very situational.

** We could also tape a packet with some money/phone under the saddle, which may keep it concealed.

** On all my rides, I carry some money in a 'plastic packet' (a temp wallet) that I use for all expenses along the ride; while in the back pocket of my cycling t-shirt, I always carry extra money and a debit+credit card.  Idea there is that if someone is observing with the intent to do something, they only see the temp wallet, and may_not notice the back pocket on the t-shirt.

Unfortunately, all this is focussing on recovering from the incident; while these measures may provide some relief (assuming we have been spared serious physical harm), measures to minimise the chances of such incidents occurring really need to be the primary focus.  But at the same time, I hope folks do consider the possibility of this happening, and try to see what backup measures (however small), they can have in place.

Wishing everyone safe rides,

-{db}.

[Soney Mathew]

Not sure how this mugging is any different than any other mugging happening .. but these people seemed to know what exactly to be mugged, the mobile and money fits the normal mugging pattern

but they took the lights & pump, makes me wonder they know it is resell-able and its use as well..

atleast they didn't strip him and take the expensive clothes.. or any other cycle parts.. or the cycle itself..

wondering if it would be a possible attempt at terrorizing brevets ? How many paranoid parents and spouses will let riders go for brevets after hearing these incidences ?

But I would think a cheap gps tracker would be useful... The organizers/family can track the riders.. these trackers can be outfitted with distress signal capabilities as well

We can even custom make one with a gps chip + sim module transmitting GeoSMS to a common number that can show the riders location on a live map

Regarding sweeping vehicles..

I remember riding my first brevet (Anchetty 200) and the cut off time was 7:30PM 

at night 2am I had barely managed to reach Hosur, this is ~7hrs after the cut off. I was just too pig headed to finish the distance, 

if a sweeping vehicle would have come by I would have politely declined the offer for a pickup, actually one of the riders who took a fall did offer me a ride in a jeep but i declined...

I would think there are riders attempting a brevet who are just riding, maybe they will miss the cut off time , but would find it worthwhile to try and finish the distance.

Everyone has to remember nothing comes for free , all these premium medical support and the extra stuff may increase the brevet fees and a part of the riders atleast will drop out if that cost is too high just like some of the expensive sports events conducted in bangalore, buying a good cycle to fit into the crowd itself is an expensive affair for some of the crowd

Some suggestions which I follow 

1) Carry bare minimum cash needed for the ride

2) An atm card which has less than x amount , well hidden

3) less flashy dresses , Too much out of place dress up tends to attract unwanted attention

4) Brag less about how expensive your cycle is

    and if you cant control the urge to show off how expensive your cycle is then you are landing other riders in trouble as well for later time

    I had once replied to a villager that mine was just 10k he replied saying another guy before me had a 65k cycle.. 

5) Ride in visible distance to a rider in front or back

Don't have anything much for the organizers than a thank you for the selection of the  beautiful routes, as well as spreading the cycling fever

Depending on how much money people are willing to shell out for a brevet registration and the time available for organizers we can consider providing

1) Smooth road surface by re-tarring the entire stretch

2) Red carpet for the entire route etc

On a serious note with the current available bandwidth, plz see if the below can be considered

1) Map provided can mark the hospitals,police stations en route with contact numbers

2) Riders can be encouraged to report on other riders as well to the organizers via sms/whatsapp

  Example : Spotted B-578 at the 105th km (as per cuesheet)

Largely I have observed a huge helping hand by the cycling community whenever participating in the rides, 

Experienced folks share bits of helping info by correcting the new riders like advise on how one is sitting, saddle height, how to hydrate ,

helping to fix punctures etc

We will get mugged, break an arm, fall on our head, break a jaw but we will always get back on the saddle,

Soney

[Arvind PR]

!!!!You rock!!!!

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[Opendro]

Seriously! That is a hell of a determination.

BTW, let the mugging go on and let them get empty handed. We need to let the muggers know that they don't get anything out of mugging us. That is the only way for us. I don't think any mugger will attempt to take the bike unless they are on a truck!

[R. Venkatachalam]

While the ACP approved rides / brevets have helped kick start a movement, we can as well have a local org here issuing medals / start maintaining records of the rides. The format can be similar / tweaked to suit what is possible / workable. 

If say any ngo is willing to keep records we can have recogonized rides and they can probably look at issuing medals at a cost. I remember we had medals for the brevet launch ride in dec 2010, and that was locally made in bangalore. 

I dont think it is that difficult to do something like acp here... umca, acp all should have had some starting point, i think we too have one now here. We can use some of the formats of umca (like golden miles etc), acp, club rules in other countries, brevets, permanents etc and start. 

If any one from racf or ggi is in this mailing group, may be it can be a good idea to explore. just a thought... 

For me, i am equally happy receiving medals from Bangalore or France... The rider still has a choice of events, and choose events basis whether he/she wants a medal, pbp qualification etc etc. Having more events would also mean the general quality of organizing such rides improves. 

On Sunday, March 30, 2014 5:56:51 AM UTC+5:30, Sree wrote:

[santosh kumar]

My 2 paises:

Just wonder why we run for oscars, when we can have our own film festivals! 

I hate it when people celebrate ARR for his oscars, but they forget his debut that got him national awards! 

Cheers
Santosh

[R Venkatachalam]

The logic can be extended.... Why run TCS 10k paying x rupees when you can run for free every morning... May be the hierarchy of need, recognition... Back then, it was a big thing to get a medal etc <and even today>... Extend the same logic and somewhere most people want to be recognized or spoken to, needs a medium to showcase some achievement. <FB will not exist without that explanation is what i believe> 

Why ride an approved ride (approved by anybody, be it acp or any org here) when you can anyways do a 200k ride on any day. i believe, for a lot of people, a first 200k is made more memorable when someone recognizes it... I think TCC gives medals for 100k rides, saw a few pics on facebook... 

There is nothing wrong or right about it as i see it. 

--
Best Regards,
R. Venkatachalam

[santosh kumar]

capitalism! :P monetise everything! :)

Cheers
Santosh

[anil s kadsur]

+1

very truly,
anil s kadsur
http://kadsur.blogspot.in/

---

From: santosh kumar <santosh...@gmail.com>

Sender: bangalor...@googlegroups.com

Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2014 16:58:22 +0530

To: R. Venkatachalam<r.venka...@gmail.com>

Cc: BBC<bangalor...@googlegroups.com>

Subject: Re: [BBC] Re: Mugging incident on the night of 300k kgf brevet

[deepak brid]

Hi,

Empathise with Shaunak & hope he's doing fine now...

While reading the thread, the only thought that kept crossing my mind is; why hasn't anyone thought of a gps device! And then I came across Soney's reply. IMO, it's the best option for realtime tracking & reporting with  SOS / distress signal.

I've never participated in a brevert, but the thought still haunts me even on city & local rides, especially in the hours of dawn. With the GPS Tracker there will be few challenges like power for device, hours of service, cost of equipment, portability etc.Nonetheless, I'd be willing to carry it cause that gives me anassurance factor. Thinking out loud, I wish for many more features on the GPS, but these should do fow now :).

If the cost is high, renting out your tracker to someone when you are not participating is an option. Commercially doable too. 

HTH!

Regards,

[mkonchady]

While a GPS Tracker is useful, I don't see how it will deter a mugger. They will use any opportunity available.

I think, if you can avoid riding alone during "mugging hours" (10pm - 2am?) when all kinds of nutcases are on the road, you will reduce the chances of such an incident.

I wonder if this has happened in other cities and how they dealt with it...

--Manu Konchady