Trying to trace the last name Secia in the Azores

[Kim S]

Hello - I am hoping someone can help me or point me in the right direction. 

My great-grand parents immigrated to the US in 1902 from the Azores (I believe Sao Miguel). My great-grandfather has a very uncommon name, Manuel Secia born est 1877 and my great-grand mother has an extremely common name, Maria de Mello born est 1868-1874, so both are hard to trace. I have looked for both and can not find the last name Secia in Portugal and I can not find a Maria de Mello around 1868-1874 that got married immigrated to the US. They did have one child in the Azores Mary J Secia 1901 before they immigrated but I can not find anything on the birth. I did take a DNA test and it has linked me to a couple distance cousins in the Azores with the last name of Goulart but we can not figure out how we are linked. 

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Cheri Mello]

Join the Azores DNA Project here:

Log into your FTDNA page with your kit number and password.

Across the top is says: myFTDNA, DNA Tests, Projects....Point at Projects. When the drop down menu appears, click "Join a project."

If the Azores Islands appears on the top, click the link and scroll down to the JOIN button at the end.

If the Azores Islands is not suggested, scroll down to where it says "Search by Surname" and type: azores.

When Azores Islands appears, click the link follow the directions.

You are not ready to research in the Azores yet. Believing someone is from Sao Miguel would be like someone believing their ancestor was from Nebraska. You could look there, but in reality, you need to search the whole United States. To narrow your search in the Azores, check out this how to on the Azores GenWeb here: https://goo.gl/b0IGW3

Hope something pans out for you.

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

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[Kim S]

Hi Cheri, 

I joined the FTDNA group. I will look at the instructions on how to narrow down my search. 

Thank you, 

Kim

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[JR]

That name is probably a derivative of Seixas or Seichas. It can be found on Sao Miguel and Santa Maria.

JR

[Cheri Mello]

She has no DNA matches to anyone researching Sao Miguel through. All her DNA matches are from the central island group. She is going to do more U.S. based research to pinpoint the island and freguesia.

[EResendes]

Do you know where he was from.  I have seen Secio (nickname) in Faial da Terra, Sao Miguel but it isn't very common.

[Kim S]

Hi - I am unsure where they originated from, I only know the Azores right now. I saw Sao Miguel on a US Census but they could have just left from there. Cheri said from my DNA the middle islands are the most likely.  

[E. Sharp]

Are they they ones in MA who came to US him 1902 her 1903. Maybe the ships record may say where the came from or give you more accurate data to find them in Passportes??

"E"

Sent from my iPhone

[E. Sharp]

Google the Early Settlere of Mattapoisett Book 2 search Secia and you will see Mary's De Mello grandmother came from Sao Miguel, Azores. Interesting story and many pictures of the family.

[Kim S]

Hi E!

I found that publication and added the pictures to my tree on MyHeritage. The only Secias in the US are from Manuel's two sons Anthony and Manuel Jr. I'm trying to find the name in the Azores and that's the road block. 

Thanks for looking into the name for me!

Kim

[E. Sharp]

Have you found any of their ship's record coming into the US?

["E" Sharp]

Kim,

They came to the U. S. under the surname Fonseca.  Maybe they used the Secia (note FonSECA) in the U. S.  I am going to send you further information to you personal email address.

"E"

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[John Raposo]

That is a great hypothesis and I bet it will prove out to be the case. Fonseca, ''seca...secia". If it turns out to be the case let us know. Fact is often stranger than fiction.

John

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["E" Sharp]

John,

It was a great guess on my part but I found their ship's records to the U. S. it lists his name as Manuel Cecis Fonseca so maybe this is where he it comes from.  I am trying to find him on Passportes.  He came from Sao Miguel on the ship Vancouver arriving in Boston May 23, 1903.  Any help appreciated as I have a hard time reading these Passportes records. Maybe this will tell us where he was born as the second of the passenger list is missing??? :-( 

"E"

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[Kim S]

E, 

You are amazing! Thank you soooo much!

Kim

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[linda]

Is it possible that "Cecis" is mis-transcribed?  Couldn't the name have been Manuel Cecia Fonseca, and then the spelling of "Cecia" changed to "Secia"?  The sound would have been the same.


Linda

On Wednesday, January 4, 2017 at 2:21:55 PM UTC-8, "E" Sharp wrote:

John,

It was a great guess on my part but I found their ship's records to the U. S. it lists his name as Manuel Cecis Fonseca so maybe this is where he it comes from.  I am trying to find him on Passportes.  He came from Sao Miguel on the ship Vancouver arriving in Boston May 23, 1903.  Any help appreciated as I have a hard time reading these Passportes records. Maybe this will tell us where he was born as the second of the passenger list is missing??? :-( 

"E"

On Wed, Jan 4, 2017 at 2:09 PM, 'John Raposo' via Azores Genealogy <azo...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

That is a great hypothesis and I bet it will prove out to be the case. Fonseca, ''seca...secia". If it turns out to be the case let us know. Fact is often stranger than fiction.

John

On Wednesday, January 4, 2017 4:25 PM, "E" Sharp" <belle...@gmail.com> wrote:

Kim,

They came to the U. S. under the surname Fonseca.  Maybe they used the Secia (note FonSECA) in the U. S.  I am going to send you further information to you personal email address.

"E"

On Wed, Jan 4, 2017 at 9:42 AM, Kim S <kas...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi E!

I found that publication and added the pictures to my tree on MyHeritage. The only Secias in the US are from Manuel's two sons Anthony and Manuel Jr. I'm trying to find the name in the Azores and that's the road block. 

Thanks for looking into the name for me!

Kim

On Wednesday, January 4, 2017 at 10:27:20 AM UTC-7, E. Sharp wrote:

Google the Early Settlere of Mattapoisett Book 2 search Secia and you will see Mary's De Mello grandmother came from Sao Miguel, Azores. Interesting story and many pictures of the family.

"E"

Sent from my iPhone

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[Margaret Vicente]

Hi,

Yes, Sécia is used as a last name.  There's someone with this name on Face Book.  It is also the name of a flower, cultivated in most gardens and backyards on the islands, sécias, could spot them a distance away for their bright colours, pinks, oranges and purple.

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Margaret M Vicente

[Ramona Freitas-Nason]

HI,

Your post made on Fonseca caught my interest, I am also looking for Fonseca. I was always told that my Great Great Grandfather was Fonseca, and when he came over to this country he changed his name to Cardoza. Why, no one knows. My Aunt who is still living says her Mother was names Philomena Foncesca Cardoza. I have ot been able to find anything on Fonseca at all. Good Luck, I will be following you to see if your luckier than me. Ramona Freitas Nason

[Kim S]

Hi Mara, 

I found one Secia in Portugal born in 1890 and died in 1979 in Lisbon. He is also Manuel Secia and came to the US for a brief period but lived most of his life on the mainland of Portugal. He has one reminding grandson Joao and a great grandson Pedro. I am in contact with Pedro. He reach out to me years ago to see if we are related. This is why I didn't think Secia was shortened because there is one more Secia out there. 

Any Secia you find on FB from the US is directly related to Manuel Secia born 1878. He had two sons, Anthony and Manuel Jr that carried on the name.

Margaret M Vicente

[Kim S]

Hello All, 

I found my great-grand mother on the Passportes List, but can not read where she came from. Also the name of her travel companion. Any help would be greatly appreciated! 

It's the line with entry 617 (1329-1333) - Maria Bento de Mello. 

http://www.culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/PASSAPORTES-PDL-1903-1905/PASSAPORTES-PDL-1903-1905_item1/P57.htm

[Margaret Vicente]

Hi Kim,

She came from Faial da Terra, Povoacao.

She was married, 35 years old

Parents: Manuel Pereira and Maria de Melo

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Margaret M Vicente

[Margaret Vicente]

sorry, missed out on travel companion part.  She had 3 children: Maria, Maria and Manuel.  Ages: 3, 2 11 respectively. It does not name the father of the children.

Under the same passport # 617, passenger # 1333 Maria Roza (Rosa)  37 years old. Parents Manuel Fonseca and Maria Bento.

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Margaret M Vicente

["E" Sharp]

Margaret and Kim,

Bingo!!  I knew this list would come through for her.  Now we can go looking for the kids baptism records. Margaret did you notice the Maria after son Manuel...is she Maria Rosa or Maria ?? and I think she is related somehow but not sure how.... 

"E"

[Margaret Vicente]

Elaine, reading it as Maria Rosa

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Margaret M Vicente

["E" Sharp]

​Margaret,

Thanks, I thought so but was not sure it was a Z.  I cannot read these records....no how....never have....never will, I guess.  I do think she is related somehow to Maria Bento Mello.

"E"​

[Margaret Vicente]

Elaine, seeing they're travelling on the same passport, they in all probabilities are related. 

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Margaret M Vicente

["E" Sharp]

Margaret,

Good point....I did not notice they were travelling on the same passport...duh!!

"E"

[Cheri Mello]

Kim,

Why a Maria Bento de Mello? She is a married woman, born c. 1869, with 3 children already. What research in America has lead you to a Maria Bento de Mello? Why not a Maria de Jesus Mello? Why not Maria de Simas de Mello, #719?
http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/PASSAPORTES-FAL-1889-1908/PASSAPORTES-FAL-1889-1908_item1/P189.html

Here are the facts:
You said the 1920 in Mattapoisett, Massachusetts that Manuel Secia was 43, immigrated 1902,and was an alien. Mary/Maria was 48, immigrated in 1903, also an alien. Son "Antone" was born c. 1905 in MA.

The 1930, also in Mattapoisett said that Manuel Secia now 56, immigrated 1901, and was an alien. Mary/Maria is now 62, immigrated 1904. Both are aliens.

The 1940, still in Mattapoisett, says that Manuel Secia is now 63 and Mary/Maria is 70. Both aliens.

The only thing you can tell for certain: They lived in Mattapoisett, and they are aliens. What you can most likely infer: Maria is older than Manuel. Manuel immigrated first. They don't really know how old they are. Manuel's birth years: 1867, 1864, 1877. A 10 year span. Mary/Maria's birth years: 1858, 1862, 1870. A 12 year span. Maybe they are born somewhere outside this span.

Nothing says Sao Miguel island. Nothing says Mary/Maria's maiden name was Mello. Nothing says she immigrated under that name. She is born during the third time period where most women didn't have surnames. She may have immigrated under Maria da Conceição, Maria da Estrella, Maria do Rosario....

Start with their deaths and work backwards. You're really not ready to search in the Azores. It's like looking for a needle in a haystack. With 900-1000 people of Azorean descent who have taken Family Finder, you match no one with Sao Miguel ancestry. You match with a relative of Evie Silva Kiler who is on this list. I run "In Common With" and everyone on that list is Faial, Pico, or Sao Jorge island. No one is Sao Miguel island. It will help when you are able to get your dad's Family Finder as well.

Get the deaths, the obits, burial records, and tombstone photos. Get the children's births and baptisms. Get the marriage. Get the Alien Registration. Manuel's WWI Draft. There's a lot of things to look for here first: https://goo.gl/b0IGW3

Make a time line for your ancestors with the conflicting info. Your ancestors didn't seem to know. Their answers are all over the place. It doesn't look like you'll be able to use their ages with any certainty. You've got to find a document with the island, and hopefully, it will have the freguesia!

Good luck! Cheri

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

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[Kim S]

Hi Mara and E, 

Wow there are ALOT of Marias and Manuels in this family!!!! Thank you for all the help! 

So the next step is to look at the baptism records for the 3 children in Faial da Terra, Povoacao?

[Kim Secia]

Hi Cheri, 

E (not sure his real name) found the ships the came over on. He sent me the information in a private email. I'm not sure how he found it on Ancestry. Here is the information which lead me to the Passportes List. 

• Maria Bento M. Fonseca came to the U. S. on the ship "S.S. Canopic sailing from St. Michael's May 17, 1904.  She is with children Maria 3, Maria 2 and Manuel 11 months going to her husband Manuel C. Fonseca, Mattapoisett MA. When Manuel Jr. applied for citizenship, he said his name was Manuel Secia but he came to the U. S. under the name Manuel Fonseca.

• The father Manuel Cecis (Ancestry has Celio) Fonseca game to the U. S. on the ship Vancouver arriving in Boston May 23, 1903.  He is going to his cousin Manuel Mauricio Mello living in New Bedford.  He was born ca 1878 I believe in Sao Miguel.
  

Are you saying these are not matches? The children's ages and immigration dates seem to match up with everything I found online. 

Thank you for the additional information. 

Kim

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[Cheri Mello]

You said your immigrant ancestors had 2 children: Anthony and Manuel. Sounds like things don't match. I thought you told me they married in America. Then had kids. This woman married there and had kids there. Maybe she married there had more in America too.

The census info you provided never listed a Manuel. Only "Antone." He was born in America, not the Azores.

I'm sure if I had a couple of free hours I could find more than one Maria de Mello coming to America with a Manuel and Antonio. Or a few Marias too.

Maria, Manuel, Antonio, and Mellos are all way too common and it would be very, very, easy to pick the wrong one. You need to start with their death certificates and work backwards in time and make sure you have a timeline on these guys, with all that conflicting info. It's going to be a bit tedious for awhile.

It just doesn't make sense to me that your DNA matches NO ONE who is doing Sao Miguel ancestry. One thousand people and you match zero. Very weird. Definitely test your dad when you are able. He's got double the Portuguese ancestry you do :)

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

[Kim Secia]

Hi Cheri, 

I know Manuel and Maria had the follow children, Mary J, Maria, Manuel Jr,. and Antone. I wasn't 100% when they actually immigrated because the date kept changing on the census information so depending on when they came is the only way to know which children were born in the US. 

Since E found the actual ships that show Manuel coming over in May of 1903 and then Maria coming over in May of 1904, that would put the first 3 children born in Portugal below are there DOBs. 

Mary J - March 13,1901

Maria Rose - April 5, 1902

Manuel Jr - May 25, 1903 

Anthony (Antone) - April 20, 1905

I am now assuming since Maria was pregnant in May of 1903, she waited until after she had the baby and everyone was healthy to travel before coming to the US. Then got to US and a year later Antone was born. 

This is why I think E's information is correct, the children line up. Also on one of the census document Maria was listed as Mary Bento. 

Thank you for the follow up. 

Kim

. 

["E" Sharp]

Here is the baptism record for the mother Maria... It starts on the page before and continues on this page.

http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-PV-FAIALDATERRA-B-1860-1869/SMG-PV-FAIALDATERRA-B-1860-1869_item1/P193.html

I will try and do more on the father Manuel tomorrow if I can and if not, in a few days as I have a big celebration with my family coming up.

"E"

[Margaret Vicente]

Hi Kim,

I'm trying to help, however based on the birth year 1878 for Manuel Cecis (Ancestry Celio) Fonseca sailing on the ship Vancouver in 1903, bringing him to be 25 years old. Does the manifest state if he is married?  Why I'm asking is because the 1904 Maria Bento M. Fonseca is 35 years old with an 11 year old child, which translate to Manuel being a father at 15 years of age, and married around 14 years of age, very unlikely. I think you're looking at 2 different families.

I did find the birth record for the Manuel born in Faial da Terra on the 2nd of September 1878.  Here's the link, record # 34 right page.

http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-PV-FAIALDATERRA-B-1870-1879/SMG-PV-FAIALDATERRA-B-1870-1879_item1/P235.html

I also found a Manuel Secio da Fonseca, single, godfather to a child by the name of Manuel, born to Maria Secio da Fonseca, presuming this is his sister's baby.  # 26 left page.

http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-PV-FAIALDATERRA-B-1890-1899/SMG-PV-FAIALDATERRA-B-1890-1899_item1/P136.html

Further to this and Elaine finding the birth record for the passports Maria.  I checked through the records and did not find the birth record for Manuel, the child and Maria born in 1903, nor the marriage record for such couple.  

Unfortunately the passport for Maria Bento de Melo and children does not show the childrens' father's name. I checked twice and did not find  Manuel Cecio da Fonseca marriage within the given dates or outside of these time frames.  

Margaret M Vicente

[Kim S]

Hi Margaret, 

I think Manuel Jr age is 11 months not 11 years. It would match his DOB of Manuel Jr - May 25, 1903,  if he left in May of 1904.

Kim

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Margaret M Vicente

[Margaret Vicente]

You are right. Unfortunately 1902 and 1903 records are not available. It is important for you to get the basic birth and marriage for your GP and GGP to ensure you have the right base to start your research as recommended by Cheri Melo in other emails.

By the way the name is Secio in the masculine sense, not Secia, feminine.

[Jeremy G. B-C]

I am HIGHLY Skeptical that you have the right passenger list.

Have you tken a look at this???

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&amp;GRid=155211263&amp;ref=acom

No name change if this is the person listed on passanger list. No idea I didnt make sure, but same unusual name...

You need to go back to the beginning and analyze every reord under the changed name first, so you have more stuff to verify more information.

Jeremy

[Kim S]

Hi Jeremy, 

Thanks for the information.  I am going to go back through everything and work backward. 

I appreciate all the help and guidance from this group. 

Kim