Sao Joao Lajes, Pico Azores 1820's

[Mickey Blue]

Hi all, I'm an Australian, descendant of Manuel Jacinto, born Sao Joao Pico 9 December 1825, son of Manuel Jacinto De Avila and Rosa Francesca. I can only speak English, so I struggle with Portuguese language and naming practices, any information in that regard would much appreciated. I'm also interested in history and hope, one day, to write a novel, based on my Great great grandfather's life and times. He was charged with stealing a Frenchman's watch in Trinidad in 1836, at 11 years of age, he was tried , under British law, transported to Van Diemen's land (now Tasmania Australia) after two years on prison hulks in England. It is a tale of terrible hardship, survival and redemption. He had four daughters and through them, many hundreds of direct descendants.

Naturally I'm interested in all my family history, but also would also love to know cultural, social and religious customs around 1820's. On his convict records, he was listed as being from Madeira, but I know he was born in Pico, so I think he may have arrived in Trinidad from Madeira (I believe the British recruited workers from Madeira during the transition from slavery to sate demands made by plantation owners for compensation). 

Kind Regards

Michael      

[luiznoia .]

How do you have his birthdate and place ? 

Eric Edgar

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[Cheri Mello]

Hi Michael,

The reading of the Portuguese language records and naming practices is on the Azores Genweb. It's hosted on Rootsweb and Rootsweb is down for a couple of weeks.

I don't know the cultural, social, or other customs of the 1820s in the Azores. Sorry. Cheri

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

[Mickey Blue]

Hi Eric, I have a DNA match in Texas who has done some research herself and had some done professionally. I contributed a bit to the process. As regards the convict history, that is well documented here in Australia. There are also DNA matches in the Azores, Oregon, California and I am trying to do my own research by whatever means is available. I've contacted other DNA matches, but cannot establish the link. The internet opens a lot of possibilities, but family history gets very complex with each generation, 2 parents, four grand, eight greats etc etc. 

Michael

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[Cheri Mello]

Michael,

You need to join the Azores DNA Project. You should have your Gedcom uploaded and be working with matches of 100 cMs or greater (on your Portuguese side).

Having a DNA match in the Azores, California, or Oregon doesn't mean anything. Suppose you match me and I just got a job and now I live on Mars. Now you have a DNA match that lives on Mars. It doesn't mean anything. People make personal (or career) decisions on where to live. You need to look at your blocks and work from the known to the unknown. Where your match lives has no bearing on the matter.

Also, all genealogists, professional or not, are human and can make mistakes. All work should always be reverified. It would be nice if we were all perfect, but we are not.

Here's how to join the Azores DNA Project.

Log into the FTDNA page with the kit number and password.

Across the top is says: myFTDNA, DNA Tests, Projects....Point at Projects. When the drop down menu appears, click "Join a project."

If the Azores Islands appears on the top, click the link and scroll down to the JOIN button at the end.

If the Azores Islands is not suggested, scroll down to where it says "Search by Surname" and type: azores.

When Azores Islands appears, click the link and follow the directions.

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

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[Mickey Blue]

Thank you Cheri, I have found family researchers to be a friendly and generous bunch of people. With regards the culture and customs of the time many things can go unchanged, even after 200 years,  and I have managed to glean small bits of information from stories, journals, histories and ships logs around that time. Even a quick scan of past post can reveal much information. 

Thank you again for the great contribution you are making to this group.

Warm regards.

Michael 

On Saturday, 6 January 2018 15:39:24 UTC+11, Cheri Mello wrote:

Hi Michael,

The reading of the Portuguese language records and naming practices is on the Azores Genweb. It's hosted on Rootsweb and Rootsweb is down for a couple of weeks.

I don't know the cultural, social, or other customs of the 1820s in the Azores. Sorry. Cheri

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

On Fri, Jan 5, 2018 at 8:00 PM, luiznoia . <nobla...@gmail.com> wrote:

How do you have his birthdate and place ? 

Eric Edgar

On Jan 2, 2018 6:07 PM, "Mickey Blue" <michael...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi all, I'm an Australian, descendant of Manuel Jacinto, born Sao Joao Pico 9 December 1825, son of Manuel Jacinto De Avila and Rosa Francesca. I can only speak English, so I struggle with Portuguese language and naming practices, any information in that regard would much appreciated. I'm also interested in history and hope, one day, to write a novel, based on my Great great grandfather's life and times. He was charged with stealing a Frenchman's watch in Trinidad in 1836, at 11 years of age, he was tried , under British law, transported to Van Diemen's land (now Tasmania Australia) after two years on prison hulks in England. It is a tale of terrible hardship, survival and redemption. He had four daughters and through them, many hundreds of direct descendants.

Naturally I'm interested in all my family history, but also would also love to know cultural, social and religious customs around 1820's. On his convict records, he was listed as being from Madeira, but I know he was born in Pico, so I think he may have arrived in Trinidad from Madeira (I believe the British recruited workers from Madeira during the transition from slavery to sate demands made by plantation owners for compensation). 

Kind Regards

Michael      

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[Mickey Blue]

Thanks for the tip Cheri, originally my DNA was tested by Ancestry, I have added it to GEDmatch, but I'm still learning about various comparisons available. I only have 7% Iberian Peninsula DNA to work with, so have relied on matches on my maternal side, with Portuguese sounding names. I do try to verify as much as I can independently. There are some conflicting records, dates and places, and I've had to make some choices drawing the most logical conclusions I can. Your suggestion would help narrow the options. 

Regards Mike

[Cheri Mello]

Sorry, I'm not clear. I should have asked where you tested your DNA.

You can most likely transfer to Family Tree DNA (FTDNA) and it's free. If you want to see their ethnicity ESTIMATES or utilize any of FTDNA's tools, it's $19 USD. Every company has different ethnicity ESTIMATES. I don't put too much weight on them. It's still too early in that part of the DNA science. You can read Judy Russell, The Legal Genealogist, explanation here: https://goo.gl/7FYEcj

To transfer to FTDNA, make your FTDNA account:
https://www.familytreedna.com/autosomal-transfer

Then download your raw data from Ancestry (or find it on your computer - it's the same file you uploaded to GedMatch). Upload your raw data to FTDNA.

After you get your matches, join the Azores DNA Project on FTDNA (with the previous directions I sent).  Hope to see you soon in the project! Cheri

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

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[Mickey Blue]

Thanks again Cheri, I'm confident at the % of Portuguese in my estimates knowing the rest of my ancestry back five or six generations. All existing documents place my great great grandfather in either Pico, Azores or Madeira (though I think Madeira was only a stepping stone) and DNA matches support the Azores origins from several sources. On his Australian marriage record he stated his place of birth as Pico, his father as Manuel Jacinto (later discovered to have the addition of Avila) and Rosa Francisca. It dovetails with records with the only exception being the year (state as 1831 on his marriage certificate). However, we know he was illiterate and also, like many other early Australian settlers, he had a convict past which was considered a great shame (unjustified given the times and the fact that England sent 160,000 convicts over a forty five year period, possibly 10% of the population when the system terminated) and therefore frequently denied or hidden. Anyway, Manuel was convicted of stealing a Frenchman's watch in 1836 in Trinidad, he was only 11 years old. As far as I can see he was the oldest child, his parents lived and died on Pico which means he was removed from all family care and influence at a very young age. Raised in a system designed to break the spirit and will with his only role models other convicts or prison guards. His life in Australia is reasonably well documented, though, according to newspaper reports, he is believed to have drowned in 1874, his body was never recovered. 

Though I honour all my ancestors, I have particular interest and affection for Manuel because of his indomitable spirit.

I probably will do as you suggest, though my free time is limited these days, so it won't be immediately (despite being "retired", I am involved in volunteer work, which consumes much of my free time). 

Thank you, again, so very much for your advice and help in this matter.

Warm regards

Mike.    

[lisa...@gmail.com]

Dear Mickey, Cheri and all,

I know that lots of people have used the strategy to test at Ancestry and then transfer their results to FtDNA, as a cost saving measure, however recent Ancestry tests (since about spring of 2016) are apparently testing less genealogy markers and more health related markers.  A lady (who is of Portuguese descent )has only 83 matches on her FtDNA transfer!

Please see article by Roberta Estes written just last month and decide for yourself.

https://dna-explained.com/2017/12/04/testing-strategy-should-i-test-at-ancestry-and-transfer-to-family-tree-dna/

Lisa Caetano Harley

researching Sao Jorge

Avila, Gabriel, Azevedo, Sousa, Moraes

researching Pico

Azevedo 

[Cheri Mello]

Yes, I believe I posted that link to Roberta Estes' article. Ancestry tests about half the family markers. FTDNA has the most family markers compared with AncestryDNA and 23 and Me. I do not know about My Heritage.

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

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[Freddy Garcia]

A few more generations of Rosa Francisca " http://www.ghp.ics.uminho.pt/geneweb/gwd.exe?b=joao1;lang=en;p=rosa;n=francisca;oc=3 "

[Mickey Blue]

Thank you so much Freddie. It astounds me the generosity of this group, it restores my faith in human nature.

[Mickey Blue]

That should be Freddy, not Freddie, sorry mate, not used to using a small screen. I have a great friend, Daniel Garcia who migrated from Uruguay to Australia many years ago and I have a Garcia DNA link,( I have been calling him cousin since I found out) I just haven't had time to explore it further, we also might be related.

Warm Regards
Mike

[Cheri Mello]

Some Garcias are Portuguese and some Garcias are from other Spanish speaking countries. There are a few surnames that are both Portuguese as well as Spanish. So you have to be careful when dealing with a surname only. It is best to research the ancestor to find out if he is Portuguese or another nationality.  Cheri

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

[Michael Emmett]

I completely understand Cheri. Likewise in the English naming system, people were named for their town or occupation or parents, like Emmett possibly derives from a child of Emma, not all Cooks were from the same family, nor Smith etc. and many who now have that name never had the occupation or came from the town. The great wonder about the modern age is that DNA can often supply links that were not possible to be found through documentary records or inherited names. 

This discussion group is a fantastic resource and I thank you for your dedicated and insightful advice. Muito Obrigado.

Warm regards

Miguel 

Sent from my iPad

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