Flight tracking

[Andy]

I have a new used Samsung tablet bur unable to get the flight tracking function to work and is turned on what's the trick?

[t v]

More details needed for better help.

How are you testing it, car, walk, acft.?

What is your Device's OS, Make model?

Where are you located do you have good GPS signal, look in Tools for at least 3 green circles?

Where is Avare installed, and Version, Default, External?

With good GPS turn Tracks On, and drive around, you should see a track line on the chart until you turn it off. After that it gets Saved in your root directory in com.ds.avare/Tracks and you need another app to view it. TV

[Andy]

TV,

I've been using Avare for about two years and the tracking worked fine on the Kindle Fire HD6 and the settings are all the same but to answer your questions.

Testing while flying.

Samsung SM-T700 Galaxy, OS 6.0.1

GPS has a good signal, lots of SAT's, navigation works just fine as does ADS-B.

Avare is installed on the Samsung and is version 8.1.7

Tracks is turned on in pref, flight tracking (box is checked) and I've toggled this several times but alas no tracking

Like on the Kindle Fire I have it set to send via email when I exit obviously nothing happens.

Thank you,

Andy

[John W SBA]

> I have it set to send via email when I exit

Have you tried setting that to None and checking to see if it's saving
the file on your tablet?

[t v]

Hi Andy.

If you see the track line on your chart, if you selected Menu>Preferences>Flight tracking>Track History box, as you move along, the track is being recorded. You can also test it in your car if you need. It will only be saved after you turn it Off and sent to Automatic Track Post of your choice, None will store it in your device and in your case Send email will send it to your Email Account if properly set up, ... Application State>Edit account? TV

[John W SBA]

Andy I just now noticed that you wrote:
> Tracks is turned on in pref

I didn't see a mention of the Tracks On toggle button:
Map -> Menu -> Tracks On/Off

On my S7 phone in Avare 8.1.7 with "None" selected in "Automatic Track
Post" I get a new ""The tracks file...saved" pop-up at the bottom of the
Map screen every time I toggle the Tracks On button from On to Off.
This is with GPS off and sitting in a chair. The files of course are
basically empty, but it's saving them every time. In fact, because I
leave it set to Tracks On and occasionally look stuff up in Avare I have
lots of tiny files from every time I exit Avare (which also saves a
Track file).

In fact, I have to occasionally use the file manager app to purge
Internal/com.ds.avare/Tracks of all the 898 byte (and the larger "empty"
files of an identical size I don't recall).

[Andy]

Yes to pref, track on but on or off gets the same message pop up at the bottom which is "tracks on" and never a "tracks off".

No combination of anything will show a track and when I quit there is no file or email.

Thank you for all the advice thus far.

[John W SBA]

> Yes to pref, track on

To be clear for anyone reading this topic in the future, I was talking
about the Track On button on the Map screen and not in Prefs. The
attached screencap from my S7 shows the white/gray pop-up message just
after I tap Map, Menu and then the Track On button (circled in orange).
Note that it's in Simulation mode with GPS off.

This is probably what you're doing too, but not seeing the message I am.
If so, since it's working for me the Avare app itself is presumably
OK. Maybe it's an Android setting or something newly changed or
installed on your tablet that's interfering with Avare saving the file?
I guess you've already tried restarting the tablet. Maybe un/re-install
Avare next?

[t v]

Yes to pref, track on but on or off gets the same message pop up at the bottom which is "tracks on" and never a "tracks off".

 

Hi Andy.

Can you post a pic of the screen with the message?

It's very likely something simple, Tracks feature works without problems, and if we can get to understand the problem and what  it is you are seeing I am confident we can find a good explanation for it and a solution. TV

[Andy]

On the kindle fire it works exactly as described. I uninstalled and reinstalled, compared all the settings again, still no luck. Also selected none for what to do with the file when exiting, no luck there either.

Menu, tracks off, tracks on, tracks off never gets the message about saving the kml with what to do turned off.

[Kreig Babbert]

How does the file structure on your two devices compare? Do you have an internal storage/com.ds.avare/tracks on both? Can you write a file there on both devices?

[Andy]

The only message that I could take a screenshot of is tracks on and that happens whether you click menu, tracks on or menu, tracks off, it’s always the same message.

As far as storage goes the Samsung has external storage, But that Kindle fire does not.

I can’t see how any of the Samsung settings would keep this from working properly, I don’t know what I’m missing here, I think I know how to use this Software and again it works as advertised on the Kindle fire.

[Kreig Babbert]

Samsung storage is tricky. My guess is the problem is there. Samsung external (sd card) storage will have a numeric path name. It is not "sdcard". Mine from the root is /storage/6465-3463/. See if you can find the tracks folder. You might have several on a Samsung.

[Andy]

I’ve looked through all the files, no KML’s to be found.

[Kreig Babbert]

On both my Samsung tablet and lg phone, the kml files are in /storage/emulated/0/com.ds.avare/tracks. Do you have that folder structure? Is the com.ds.avare folder empty or does it have files? The tracks are stored in what Samsung calls internal storage. I suggest you try to determine if there is something about your file structure that is preventing files to be written.

[Andy]

Since this unit is new to me it's easy to look at all the folder/files by date to see what's there and after multiple tries there's nothing like "tracks" or emulated, looked in both the system storage and the SD.

I think the big clue is that I always see the same message which "tracks on" after I hit menu, tracks on and again tracks off. I never see a message that says "tracks off". This is even true when in pref, flight tracking "track history" is unchecked.

Flew with it again yesterday, nav and everything else works great.

[Kreig Babbert]

There is no message other than the menu button changing from Tracks On to Tracks Off.

My theory is that the files are there but in an unexpected location.

A few trouble shooting ideas:

1. Ensure Preferences>Flight Tracking>Track History is checked.

2. Select the menu on the map page and click the tracks button so that it says "Tracks On".

3. Jump in your car with the internal GPS working.  Go faster than 3 knots for a few miles

4. Do you see a blue trail behind your "aircraft"?

5. If so, click the tracks button so that it says "Tracks Off"

6. If not, ensure the aircraft location is updating and following your course after several minutes.  Let it cook for a while with tracks on before turning tracks off.

7. Download "Root Browser" from Google Play

8. Open the Root Browser, select Internal Storage

9. Select the com.ds.avare folder

10. Select the Tracks folder

11. Send screen shot of what is shown

See my attachments for my world.

[Andy]

I will do everything on your list but let me clarify one thing first which is that when you toggle the tracks on tracks off button the message that is displayed is always the same, tracks on, it never says tracks off.

[Andy Lumley]

I'm not seeing the same root browser screen and I don't get any hits when searching for avare or com.ds.avare folder.

On Mon, Jul 27, 2020, 6:56 PM Andy <andrew....@gmail.com> wrote:

I will do everything on your list but let me clarify one thing first which is that when you toggle the tracks on tracks off button the message that is displayed is always the same, tracks on, it never says tracks off.

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[Kreig Babbert]

That screenshot is the root directory. Now select storage, emulated, 0. Com.ds.avare should be there. Within com.ds.avare should be tracks. Within tracks should be the kml files.

[Andy]

No such files, emulated folder is empty.

I hate to say this again w/o being obnoxious but I'll do it anyway.

Flight Tracking box is checked.

Menu, Tracks On and the message that comes up is "tracks on". Tap Tracks Off and the message is the same "tracks on" Never do a see a message "tracks off".

Never see a blue line for tracking, never a prompt or email or any kml's being saved.

The above is unique to this Samsung, the Kindle Fire acts as what's being described.

I did do an uninstall/reinstall but not with a system reboot in between. Think that might help?

[Kreig Babbert]

Sure sounds like there is something about the file structure on the Samsung that is preventing Avare from creating the file, especially since you don't get the blue trail. If you select Internal Storage in Root Browser do you see a com.ds.avare folder? I see some articles about setting your sd card as the default internal storage on a tab s. Is your tablet set that way?

[Andy]

I don't find any option to use the SD as a default, Internet says no to that. I'm not the expert but even after the 2nd un/reinstall (this time with a device reboot) I still never see a pop up message that says "tracks off".

Thanks for all the help, I guess I'll have to live without it but was nice to have for winter flying where I land on lakes and ponds and then can go look at the kml to what the names of them are.

[Andy]

I did a search in the group on "flight tracking not working" again and found the problem.  

Avare Preferences -> Storage and Download -> Charts Storage Folder, it prompted me to allow permission to device storage.  I allowed that, and now it's working.

Now when I toggle the Tracks Off I see the message that the file is being saved. Phew!

[John W SBA]

> prompted me to allow permission to device storage.

Ah! So glad you found the issue! Thanks so much for posting the
solution. I've actually run across that issue of Android App
Permissions before, including not having clicked all the Permissions for
the Avare app. Sometimes it's so easy to get focused on the specific
problem, and forget something so obvious and familiar to us.

Happy Flying (and Tracking!) :D

[M F]

Hello.  Well now I'm having the same issue after just uninstalling and re-installing Avare. I get no kml files and when turning tracks on/off it always displays tracks on message at the bottom of the map screen. I saw the last solution was to have the app permission set to allowed for storage.  Mine is set that way (I didn't deny any permissions). I can't figure this out. Having other unexplainable issues just trying to set the Charts and Storage location to another location. From reading several past postings it seems to be more of a problem with Samsung devices. Yes I'm on a Samsung device. Can Avare get more friendly with Samsung?  Things worked fine with an older version of Avare and with the latest version it's not. All the issues seem to be related to the file system. I am willing to test anything you need or answer any more questions to get to a working solution for Samsung devices too.

[John W SBA]

> Can Avare get more friendly with Samsung?

I've been on Samsung devices since Avare was launched, and I feel your
pain. The question imo though is, can Google get more friendly with
user control of our devices. Samsung has been very creative in trying
to coax more storage freedom out of Android on their devices than Google
has designed into Android.

The explanation from Google in restricting access has been that it's
crucial for security. My strong impression is that it has always been
more related to Google wanting everyone to use their cloud storage. For
example Google Maps is free, not because the company wants to ensure we
never get lots or needlessly stuck in traffic - it's so they can collect
and sell information about where we are.

So every time Samsung has found a way for we few who want our data
stored locally or use Android offline (e.g. flying), Google has plugged
the "hole" in their armor. The result has been a string of different
ways to access our data, depending on Samsung device and Android version.

Our valiant little Avare app has been caught between these two battling
giants. My understanding of our Dev Team's strategy is that they
endeavor to adhere closely to the official Google rules on app
development. Many app developers, particularly large well-funded
commercial ones, have the resources to bend or break those rules. They
can also react quickly when Google tweaks Android to defeat local
storage on Samsung devices.

Several years ago my strategy of struggling with local storage changed.
Now I go with the default Avare setting for Storage. On new installs,
I manually open Settings -> Apps -> Avare -> Permissions and ensure that
everything is On. I also strive to severely limit other apps on my main
aviation devices, and keep lots of free space available for Avare.

ymmv :)

[t v]

Hi Man..

I can read your frustration but from everything I read you are having problems that are mostly one of a kind and very likely self inflicting, from what you describe.

Looking for posts that describe the problems that you think you have, and trying to associate your present problem with them are just going to confuse you.

You had Avare working and for whatever reason you decided to delete, look for files, reinstall in SDcard.. can be very confusing if you are not familiar with the Android OS, but the cause is Not Avare is mainly not being familiar with the idiosyncrasies of the OS and all the restrictiveness and shortcomings of the AOS.

Most users, presently, will use the default installation as dictated by the G / AOS, I would estimate 99.9% and there are some like you and me and a few others I know, that want something different for whatever reason. In my case I have older devices that have limited storage, I test for different scenarios with custom installations...  and I do not want to have anything to do with anything G.

As I mentioned to you, and you were able to accomplish that, you can install in a location where you can view your files. Reading some of your posts I think you likely deleted some of the files that you should have Not deleted and compounded the problems you are having.

Ever since Avare started there was no problem with the Track feature other than self inflicted Not giving permission for storage. The Track feature Works 100%, and you seem to be confused about the Tracks On / Off display and that is a shortcoming of the OS / Implementation where it's more efficient to use 2 states and On/ Of vs On, press key to turn Off or something similar, you can see how much more storage / code it would take to implement. The toggle shows the Present State, think of it as light bulb, if you see On the light is on  and you need to Toggle the switch / press the icon to change state or in this case Turn it Off.

Her is what I think it will help:

Uninstall Avare completely and delete everything everything that have avare in the file name there are some better file managers out there like ES File manager, Total commander that give you better access to the files.

Reinstall Avare in the Internal storage, which is what you have now and you will be good to go. If you need to send me a private Email and I will give you my phone nr to help you.

Listening to some people that are more than willing to tell you how Avare needs all these improvements without being a direct help to you, creates more problems than it solves. Avare is Free source if they know of a better way to implement something rather than trying to get everyone to make a change, that affects everyone, they can implement and present the compiled / source version to Avare team and have it tested. Every small change can create a big problem. I make some changes for myself, that I like to see, but I do not impose it on others. TV

[Brad Walker]

I understand that you are not a fan of my "suggestions". But, they are just that. Suggestions for improvement.

Being confrontational doesn't help your cause, which is to see Avare improvements get implemented. I make suggestions because at the end of the day, Android is a platform and API framework whose job is to make things easier.

If Android implements functionality that "breaks" Avare, that's an opportunity for improvement. The Android team doesn't do this on purpose. They have reasons for the implementation. And things change. Hopefully Avare changes with it also. I've implemented a Google Drive change and do plan on submitting it as a code change. But, if Avare doesn't accept it then I take it for what it is. Free software. Not all the changes people propose get implemented and I accept that. Sucks for me because I spend time and effort working on this. But, it's free software and the team may not want my changes for whatever reason. But, I do offer them up.

Lastly, I'm really not sure how I hit a nerve with you. But, I apologize because it seems like I did.

-brad w.

[t v]

Hi Brad.

>> Being confrontational doesn't help your cause, which is to see Avare improvements get implemented. I make suggestions because at the end of the day, Android is a platform and API framework whose job is to make things easier.<<

I am not sure what the problem is? The code is free for anyone that wants to make changes and contribute if they want. The problem is that you are not just making suggestions you are demanding from the team to make changes that you want and they are just superficial and cosmetic in nature.

>> If Android implements functionality that "breaks" Avare, that's an opportunity for improvement.<<

We are not talking about Android making changes we are talking about you demanding changes or saying that you foresee problems that do not exist and request changes that can affect thousands of people. We are not talking here about some game that may only cause a short term inconvenience to some teenager. this app should be taken seriously as being vital to pilots in my opinion. After every change the app needs to be thoroughly tested and to date I, and the team, spent many hundreds hours of testing making sure that app performs reliably.

You seem to look forward and welcome all the problems from Android / G and believe that what they do is strictly for others, I have yet to see anything that G did that was not mainly for their own selfish benefit. No the SDcard is Not the main cause for intrusion, if you believe that you have very little understanding about how the computers / tablets work. It is part of the problem that we face nowadays, and the reason why other countries are able to play the game they are playing. We have very superficial programmers and very few programmers that actually know and  understand how computers work.

I do not see what stops you from contributing, no one else seems to have the problem, do it present it and have it tested don't go public and demand it, suggest it and let the team decide, don't demand it. TV

[Brad Walker]

>> I do not see what stops you from contributing, no one else seems to have the problem, do it present it and have it tested

>> don't go public and demand it, suggest it and let the team decide, don't demand it. TV

It's pretty apparent that I've been contributing. Some of my changes have been accepted and some not. You can see this in the Github pull requests and the commit logs. The dev team makes the call about what gets accepted or not. I accept that, though there are times I do find it frustrating. BTW, I don't make any demands of the FOSS that I'm involved in. Having said that, Avare runs on the Android ecosystem and I've probably strongly advocated for changes to make things easier for the developer as well as the user. So you might be mis-interpreting me advocating for something as a demand. I apologize for giving you that impression.

At the end of the day, Avare plays in the Android ecosystem. If apps like Avare and others don't keep up with the changes, they are going to increasingly find themselves locked out of the ecosystem. Storage is an example of this and it's only going to get more rigid going forward.

-brad w.

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[Rich Klarich]

New find.  Samsung S9 running stock ROM T-Mobile Android 10.  I upgraded my plane to a DualAv XGPS170D so I no longer have Adhoc wifi issues for ADSB-In to my tablet from a Radenna Skyradar DX.

The skyradar feeds my EFIS but was not happy on wifi to Androids nor showed traffic on iPads any longer.  $299 closeout, easy enough to skip a $250 Stratux that must be depowered from a browser rather than a hardware switch.

This left me with a DualAv XGPS170 on 978mhz only- not the greatest as my UAT ADSB-out reports I get 978 and 1090 IN, so my EFIS does not have to filter double returns via the Skyradar.

I have a USB hub, Nooelec SDR and Flightaware 978/1090 blue filter and a few SMA antenna for use with Avare ADSB Pro app- awesome for troubleshooting transponder and ADSB issues and easy traffic connectivity- on EITHER 978 or 1090, not both.

Well- the DualAv XGPS170 will input 978 on bluetooth to Avare, with the SDR running on 1090 thru Avare ADSB Pro into the USB and Avare- at the same time!

Pretty slick, thanks for reading- hope this might be of use to someone with an old 978-IN only device.

I don't know if a wifi device on 978-IN only will do the same.

Rich

[M F]

Hello again. Just wondering if anything is being looked at for this issue.

I have tried uninstalling several times, manually created folders, and tried different settings in Avare with no luck. 

After working with the Samsung tech and seeing the inner folders of my phone, Avare was not navigating the same way. So having time to "figure out" what might be the issue with Avare I found an app that let's me navigate the folders on my phone a bit differently than the stock Samsung My Files app and may be more the way Avare is seeing the folders. 

I wish I could really work with a developer on this as I believe something got changed in the code a few months back or needs some changes for non-rooted phones. 

I can see the root folder of the partition (showing as /)

There are a lot of system files and folders listed plus the folders I see with the My Files app. I'll only go through the folders that I think relate to this issue.

/ contains a folder called sdcard. That appears to contain all the folders I see under internal storage with the My Files app plus some system files. 

/mnt contains a folder called sdcard which shows the same folders as above less all the .system files.

From either starting point in sdcard I see the Android folder which will take me to data then com.ds.avare. This is where my chart data is and the only way to get it to save here was to MANUALLY create the folder then in the Avare preferences I could tap the button that displayed /sdcard/Android/data/com.ds.avare  Avare does not navigate up or down showing existing folders. This seems to be one the problems found in Avare.

/storage contains a few folders and is where the sdcard is listed. Mine is listed with numbers (1234-5678). If I click it i then see all my folders matching how the My Files app lists for external sd-card storage.  In Avare preferences the second button will do a long path to /storage/emulated/0/Android/data/com.ds.avare but Avare will let up navigate UP a level to get to /storage  AND list the same folders seen in /storage with the Android nav app. However Avare will not navigate down when selecting the 1234-5678 folder.  The Android app will keep going down a level. So there is no way Avare can be set to a path. 

Then comes the Tracks folder. Avare created this folder a few months ago on the root of the internal storage

(/mnt/sdcard/com.ds.avare/Tracks or /sdcard/com.ds.avare/Tracks) (two ways to get to the same folder as explained above)

No new kml files are being written now. If fact there is another forum thread where others are having or had issues with this. The Tracks folder exists with data from a previous version of Avare. Now Avare is acting strangely,  when tapping Menu and Tracks On or Tracks Off, Avare is always displaying a message at the bottom of the screen that says Tracks On. There must be some code to prevent Avare from crashing if that Tracks folder can't be found or created. 

So to wrap this up, /mnt/sdcard (internal storage) and /storage (external sdcard storage) are standard Android folders not to be confused by /sdcard which is really internal storage. Why can't Avare just start at /mnt/sdcard (default chart folder would be /mnt/sdcard/Android/data/com.ds.avare) and /storage in the preferences? This should work for any Android device,  correct? 

The current version of Avare will not list or navigate in the preference chart storage screen and it cannot find or create a Tracks folder for a kml file to be created. 

I am available to work with any developer to show, test, or help debug this.

Mac

[M F]

I'm focusing on the Tracks folder issue right now and looking at the code,  
KMLRecorder.java line 245 is using the value from 

Environment.getExternalStorageDirectory().getAbsolutePath()

From what I have found in this link

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/17215466/environment-getexternalstoragedirectory-getabsolutepath-gives-a-different-pa

I think this explains what might be going on (sdcard vs sdcard0).

The discussion suggests to remove the getAbsolutePath. I'm not sure what the value is since there is no "test" button in Avare to display it, but this would ask make sense since I can not get Avare to use the /storage/sdcard/com.ds.avare/Tracks folder which is really the internal storage folder. 

Maybe create a preference in Avare to set the folder path for kml files like the chart storage preference.

I'm trying my best to figure this out but it's going to need a code change to make this work.

 

There are some obvious navigating issues in the preferences Chart Storage screens. I've figured out Avare is just displaying different paths to try but won't actually let you select a folder. I got an environment to demonstrate this. 

Thanks

Mac

[Zubair Khan]

Hi Mac

We have tried and found no universal way of accessing shared folders in Android. There is 7 years of frustration at Android.

If you find a way that's endorsed by Google then we are happy to consider it.

Thanks for your interest and desire to make the app better.
Z



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[M F]

Hopefully you got my last email. I didn't see it post to the forum. 

Have been doing more reading and trying to understand Android. 

/storage/emulated/0  always is the root folder of internal storage to a "user".  This is also where the standard Download and DCIM folders reside. Instead of doing stuff in Android/data/com.ds.avare why don't you just create an Avare folder at the same level as Download and DCIM (/storage/emulated/0/Avare)? Then create subfolders like Chart Data and Tracks inside of Avare. Wouldn't this help getting out of the Android/data issues? You can set the rights to the Avare folder you just created, right?

Then can we find out why in Avare we can't navigate down into the folder tree. It does list the sd-card at /storage (the key starting point to get to the external sd-card because it will be a different folder name on every device). From what I've read read/write rights need to be set to true with some code to navigate?? If this was working, same suggestion, create an Avare folder with subfolders Chart Data and Tracks on this external sd-card. A previous summer version of Avare let me navigate down the sdcard, now it doesn't. 

The default path Avare uses now /data/user/0/com.ds.avare/files is in a protected/hidden partition at least on my Samsung device. This is only helpful to users who don't care about where their data is stored or need to take their sd-card out and share it between devices.

Would it be simple to create an app that would just do the FolderPreference code to test? If not, can you create a test version of Avare? I would test either and make sure the folders create in the right spot and report back. Maybe get a few other Avare users to test across multiple devices and see if we all get the same results. 

KMLRecorder would need to be updated to write to path selected for the Chart Data either /storage/emulated/0/Avare/Tracks (for internal storage) or /storage/SDCARDname/Avare/Tracks (for external storage).

I bet you are thinking if this works how do you get the data moved for previous installs. Well if the new /storage/emulated/0/Avare/Chart Data location works for everyone then how about the FIRST TIME starting the new modified Avare version display a message that chart data is moving to Avare/Chart Data and will be seen at the same folder level that the Download and DCIM folders are found. Then move the Avare chart data and delete the old files so nothing is duplicated and taking up double the space. 

Like I said I'm willing to test anything you want to try and willing to talk this through with some developers. There might be a better way to do all this,  I'm just trying to help (and get a working Avare app 😃 ).

Mac

[JY]

Did anyone ever figure this out? I'm having the same issue.

Samsung Galaxy Tab A (2019) - Android 10, Avare version 9.0.2

It does not allow flight tracking. I have Track History turned on. I never see a track history line. When I select Tracks On, I get the "Tracks On" pop-up, but if I select Track Off, I do NOT get a "The tracks file xxxx.KML has been saved". Instead I get another "Tracks On" pop-up. I suspect the device is not allowing Avare to save any track files and that is causing the error. I get the same result whether moving or stationary, live or sim, external or internal gps.

I have permissions turned on, but had similar issues as described above about not being able to see the com.ds.avare folder at all until I manually created one in the storage/emulated/0/Android/data/ folder. Just like Mac experienced, the Up button on the Charts Storage Folder would allow me to go up, but not down the folders. If I move all the way up to storage, it will show the SD card folder (XXXX-XXXX) and the emulated folders, but they both have a lock next to them and I am unable to select them.

I can deal with the inability to use the SD card for storage, but the lack of tracking is a significant issue. It seems to work fine on my (non-Samsung) phone.

Any ideas/solutions?

Thanks,

JY

[M F]

JY, there is a fix in the works but the release is not ready yet. I know the message is still always displaying Tracks On at the bottom of my screen too. 

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[JY]

Perfect, thanks!

[t v]

Hi everyone.

I tested the  Tracks feature on a Tab A AOS 5.1.1 and Avare 902  and I can get the Tracks to On/ Off and it does create the com.ds.avare / Tracks folder, after I renamed the existing one,  but when I turned it Off I do Not see the Track Saved message.

The track gets saved as valid .kml but it does look like something works differently than from previous versions. TV