ZFS, from hell's heart I stab at thee!
Matt Erickson
sysadmin gig at current employer (I'm currently nominally a Fortran
wrangler).
I say "storage architect" because it basically came down to "how do we
set up a $2k/TB system for $700/TB?" The system, as usual, looks good
on paper: LUNs exported from former NAS boxen to Solaris box via
iSCSI, with ZFS providing the FS and storage virtualization services.
So, ZFS is a nice system. 256-bit checksums of data, all sorts of
"data safety" features. What this system is sorely lacking is
metadata safety.
At any point where the metadata might look a little green, the pool is
marked failed, and you're pointed towards a URL telling you to flatten
and re-install from backups. The ZFS devs say they don't have a fsck
program because fsck's can only work on "known failure pathologies",
which their WunderFS lacks.
Except for, you know, when it needs to try and fix its metadata.
I can assume all of you know where this is going. And I can assume
you all know how happy we are currently with entrusting 45 TB of data
with profs too cheap to have proper backups to ZFS.
However, I'm currently getting a wonderful crash-course in ZFS
internals.
--
Matt Erickson <pea...@peawee.net>
BASIC is the Computer Science equivalent of `Scientific Creationism'.
Mike Andrews
Matt Erickson <pea...@peawee.net> wrote in
<g0hovl$4j3$1...@news.acm.uiuc.edu>:
[snippety]
> I can assume all of you know where this is going. And I can assume
> you all know how happy we are currently with entrusting 45 TB of data
> with profs too cheap to have proper backups to ZFS.
> However, I'm currently getting a wonderful crash-course in ZFS
> internals.
As well as an internals course on ZFS crashes, which is much more to
point.
--
You are right. I could report to XO that their office is on fire, and at
the very best, they might ask to see fire Dept logfiles...
-- Giblet, in nanae
Alan J Rosenthal
>The ZFS devs say they don't have a fsck
>program because fsck's can only work on "known failure pathologies",
When SGI came out with "XFS", they explained that fsck would refuse to run on
an XFS filesystem because corruption of an XFS filesystem COULD NOT HAPPEN.
Later, rather than relenting and making an fsck.xfs which would be invoked by
fsck as appropriate, they released a separate program called "xfs_repair".
So it was still true that fsck was unnecessary for XFS.
Garrett Wollman
Alan J Rosenthal <fl...@dgp.toronto.edu> wrote:
>When SGI came out with "XFS", they explained that fsck would refuse to run on
>an XFS filesystem because corruption of an XFS filesystem COULD NOT HAPPEN.
>
>Later, rather than relenting and making an fsck.xfs which would be invoked by
>fsck as appropriate, they released a separate program called "xfs_repair".
>So it was still true that fsck was unnecessary for XFS.
Ooh, time for a second-hand SGI rant! (As I've never seen our backup
guru post here I suppose that will have to do....)
For reasons which are unknown to me, it was decided at some point that
the backup server's cache filesystem ought to be in XFS. This worked
fine for a long time. The cache was enlarged a number of times with
no reported problems. Most recently, the cache was enlarged from
12 TB to 24 TB. Still no reported problems, all the data where it's
supposed to be, and so on. Reads, writes, dumps and restores take
place as expected.
Then the backup server had to be rebooted.
Lrf, oblf naq tveyf, na KSF svyrflfgrz gung jbexf cresrpgyl nsgre
na bayvar rkgrafvba gb 24 GO pnaabg, bapr hazbhagrq, or zbhagrq ntnva,
ba n 32-ovg znpuvar. (N 64-ovg znpuvar zbhagf vg whfg svar ohg snvyrq
sbe bgure ernfbaf.)
-GAWollman
--
Garrett A. Wollman | The real tragedy of human existence is not that we are
wol...@csail.mit.edu| nasty by nature, but that a cruel structural asymmetry
Opinions not those | grants to rare events of meanness such power to shape
of MIT or CSAIL. | our history. - S.J. Gould, Ten Thousand Acts of Kindness
TimC
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
Whereas Reiser just got pissed off at the accusations that his
filesystem wasn't perfect and murdered his wife.
--
TimC
Heisenberg may have been here.
Alexander Schreiber
Ah, thats the reason for it. Back then I found that fsck.xfs would to
fuck all when called, scratched my head, found xfs_repair and wondered
WTF those guys had been smoking.
Regards,
Alex.
--
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and
looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison
Alexander Schreiber
Ah, thats the reason for it. Back then I found that fsck.xfs would do
Niklas Karlsson
> Alan J Rosenthal <fl...@dgp.toronto.edu> wrote:
>> Matt Erickson <pea...@peawee.net> writes:
>>>The ZFS devs say they don't have a fsck
>>>program because fsck's can only work on "known failure pathologies",
>>
>> When SGI came out with "XFS", they explained that fsck would refuse to run on
>> an XFS filesystem because corruption of an XFS filesystem COULD NOT HAPPEN.
>>
>> Later, rather than relenting and making an fsck.xfs which would be invoked by
>> fsck as appropriate, they released a separate program called "xfs_repair".
>> So it was still true that fsck was unnecessary for XFS.
>
> Ah, thats the reason for it. Back then I found that fsck.xfs would do
> fuck all when called, scratched my head, found xfs_repair and wondered
> WTF those guys had been smoking.
As very much opposed to fsck all.
ObNonSequitur: You know it's going to be one of those days when you're
too sleepy to operate the coffee maker (it was the one at home,
fortunately) in the morning:
1) Put filter in coffee maker.
2) Measure water in pot.
3) Transfer water into water tank.
4) Measure grounds in scoop.
5) Transfer grounds into water tank.
6) Realise, one ohnosecond later, what you just did.
7) Curse loudly.
8) Painful cleanup work since coffee maker is one of those huge combo
espresso/drip deals with a non-removable water tank.
Niklas
--
Technology makes it possible for people to gain control
over everything, except over technology.
-- John Tudor
TimC
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> too sleepy to operate the coffee maker (it was the one at home,
> fortunately) in the morning:
>
> 1) Put filter in coffee maker.
> 2) Measure water in pot.
> 3) Transfer water into water tank.
> 4) Measure grounds in scoop.
> 5) Transfer grounds into water tank.
> 6) Realise, one ohnosecond later, what you just did.
> 7) Curse loudly.
> 8) Painful cleanup work since coffee maker is one of those huge combo
> espresso/drip deals with a non-removable water tank.
Oh, I hate that.
It's like the heater at my former university that always broke down in
Winter, the aircon which broke down in Summer, and the reverse cycle
aircon I have at the lodge here when I'm on night shift, that I
discovered doesn't want to start when the outside temperature is below
about -2degc.
Coffee that fails to wake you up because you aren't awake enough yet
to do it properly.
I haven't had instant coffee in over a decade. Yet occasionally, I
still pour the grounds directly into my mug. I guess I just had a
craving for extra caffeine. The worst occasion was when I was
billeting at a volunteer's house. I was departing in the morning,
before they were getting up and before shops were open. I was shown
where the coffee and kettle was beforehand. I poured my boiled water
directly into the brand new coffee jar I had just opened. I did
manage to scrape out the wet contents of the coffee jar, and hope that
the water didn't seep down into the rest of the contents.
--
TimC
This plane is not equipped with vertices.
Dave
> ObNonSequitur: You know it's going to be one of those days when you're
> too sleepy to operate the coffee maker (it was the one at home,
> fortunately) in the morning:
I've only once put tea-leaves into the kettle. Easy enough to fix, just
made me feel like a damn fool. Fortuantely, a tea-ball is a fairly
straightforward contraption, and the only way to fsck it up is really by
forgeting to empty it before you open it above the caddy.
I'm more annoyed by the mouse that's taken residence in my kitchen. I've
so far bated my (humane) trap with pate, bacon, chocolate and cereal and
he's ignored all of it. He did, however, somehow get up onto the top of
the kitchen cupboards and burrow he way through the inside of almost an
entire granary loaf. I think we've got spidermouse, as there is no other
route upto those cupboards that I can discern other than straight up the
walls.
Dave
--
millibrachiate tentacular coelenterates
Richard Todd
> So, ZFS is a nice system. 256-bit checksums of data, all sorts of
> "data safety" features. What this system is sorely lacking is
> metadata safety.
Yeah.
> At any point where the metadata might look a little green, the pool is
> marked failed, and you're pointed towards a URL telling you to flatten
> and re-install from backups.
Assuming you're lucky. If by "metadata" you mean things like the free
space maps, I managed to get a ZFS fs to a point where the damn thing
paniced immediately upon importing the pool. (Admittedly the system had
been Severely Provoked to get it to this state, doing somethings that were
somewhat far from Normal Usage. [1]) That was intensely annoying.
> and re-install from backups. The ZFS devs say they don't have a fsck
> program because fsck's can only work on "known failure pathologies",
> which their WunderFS lacks.
>
> Except for, you know, when it needs to try and fix its metadata.
Yeah. There is zdb, but unlike fsdb it doesn't actually let you *change*
anything, just document the ways the filesystem is confused. (And I dunno
about the original Solaris version, but on FreeBSD there isn't even a man
page for zdb, you have to read the source.)
As I learned long ago when dealing with IBM's vaguely-Unix-flavored-OS-product
featuring the New! Improved! Journaling FS!, there's a simple rule:
Anytime a vendor tells you "This filesystem is so designed that it doesn't
need fsck", THEY LIE.
At the *very* least, it would be nice if you could do the equivalent of
"mount -r" to tell it "Yes, I *know* your filesystem is Unwell, can you at
least let me mount it readonly and try to copy off anything that's
salvagable."
> However, I'm currently getting a wonderful crash-course in ZFS
> internals.
Boy howdy. I eventually *did* manage to get the data off that FS, by hacking
the zfs module sources to bypass enough of the sanity checks to get it to
import the pool without panicing, and as it was just the free space maps
that were addled, not the data itself.
[1] Repeatedly unmounting and mounting the fs and doing other operations on
it in a tight loop trying to track down an odd mmap() cache consistency issue
on FreeBSD with zfs.
Thomas Womack
>I'm more annoyed by the mouse that's taken residence in my kitchen. I've
>so far bated my (humane) trap with pate, bacon, chocolate and cereal and
>he's ignored all of it.
Raisins are good; I got through seven mice on raisins.
Tom
Zebee Johnstone
Jack Russels work too.
Although noisier.
Zebee
Matt Erickson
onto the tubes:
> Matt Erickson <pea...@peawee.net> writes:
>> At any point where the metadata might look a little green, the pool is
>> marked failed, and you're pointed towards a URL telling you to flatten
>> and re-install from backups.
>
> Assuming you're lucky. If by "metadata" you mean things like the free
> space maps, I managed to get a ZFS fs to a point where the damn thing
> paniced immediately upon importing the pool. (Admittedly the system had
> been Severely Provoked to get it to this state, doing somethings that were
> somewhat far from Normal Usage. [1]) That was intensely annoying.
It looks like it might be in the <UI Censored for Your Pleasure and
Protection>, and I've been <UI>, <UI>, and <UI>.
>> and re-install from backups. The ZFS devs say they don't have a fsck
>> program because fsck's can only work on "known failure pathologies",
>> which their WunderFS lacks.
>>
>> Except for, you know, when it needs to try and fix its metadata.
>
> Yeah. There is zdb, but unlike fsdb it doesn't actually let you *change*
> anything, just document the ways the filesystem is confused. (And I dunno
> about the original Solaris version, but on FreeBSD there isn't even a man
> page for zdb, you have to read the source.)
Solaris' zdb man page is essentially "This is an internal tool for Sun
engineers. Go away." I especially enjoy that it apparently has all
the diagnostic options we want to look at it, but the pool has to be
imported to begin with for 9/10 of them.
<snip IBM FS suckage>
> At the *very* least, it would be nice if you could do the equivalent of
> "mount -r" to tell it "Yes, I *know* your filesystem is Unwell, can you at
> least let me mount it readonly and try to copy off anything that's
> salvagable."
The import {-f|-F} commands don't actually do much of anything. At
least they could *say* this, instead of having to trace through
zpool_main.c into libzfs and then into the driver code.
Related rant: Sun and a curious lack of useful documentation, and a
wonderful abundance of documentation so non-useful, I could almost
post links to it here guilt-free.
>> However, I'm currently getting a wonderful crash-course in ZFS
>> internals.
>
> Boy howdy. I eventually *did* manage to get the data off that FS, by hacking
> the zfs module sources to bypass enough of the sanity checks to get it to
> import the pool without panicing, and as it was just the free space maps
> that were addled, not the data itself.
>
> [1] Repeatedly unmounting and mounting the fs and doing other operations on
> it in a tight loop trying to track down an odd mmap() cache consistency issue
> on FreeBSD with zfs.
As I stated before, I've been working on <UI>, while $boss[-1] brings
the system up to the nightly build, so that the tools give us some
slightly more interesting "failure pathologies". We're pretty sure
the data itself is still there. It's just getting to all 45 TB of it
across 9 vdevs.
Gods help us if one of the RAIDs crash.
Mind if I email you?
--
Matt Erickson <pea...@peawee.net>
"A certain few items are blessed with negative suckage; these include
kittens, flowers, and chocolate. Embrace them"
-- B. Kantor, ASR
Sam Nelson
> Niklas Karlsson <ank...@yahoo.se> writes:
> I'm more annoyed by the mouse that's taken residence in my kitchen. I've
> so far bated my (humane) trap with pate, bacon, chocolate and cereal and
> he's ignored all of it.
Tried peanut butter/ The crunchier the better.
--
SAm.
Tai
My father just hung a piece of bread on the hook of the trap,
and burnt it. They like toast, apparently.
-Tai
--
http://www.vcnet.com/bms/features/serendipities.html
http://www.kenthamilton.net/humor/humor.html
http://www.despair.com/demotivators/cluelessness.html
"What we have done with PCs so far is not natural" - Craig Mundie, CTO Microsoft
Tai
> Assuming you're lucky. If by "metadata" you mean things like the free
> space maps, I managed to get a ZFS fs to a point where the damn thing
> paniced immediately upon importing the pool. (Admittedly the system had
> been Severely Provoked to get it to this state, doing somethings that were
> somewhat far from Normal Usage. [1]) That was intensely annoying.
>
> it in a tight loop trying to track down an odd mmap() cache consistency issue
> on FreeBSD with zfs.
I'm not sure why this is a zfs rant, when freebsd has announced
that zfs is a work in progress on freebsd, and is not ready for
production use yet.
If I could be bothered, I could work up a rant about people
ranting about wrong things.
Matt Erickson
> While pretending to be roadkill on the InfoBahn, <rmt...@ichotolot.servalan.com> scrawled:
>> Assuming you're lucky. If by "metadata" you mean things like the free
>> space maps, I managed to get a ZFS fs to a point where the damn thing
>> paniced immediately upon importing the pool. (Admittedly the system had
>> been Severely Provoked to get it to this state, doing somethings that were
>> somewhat far from Normal Usage. [1]) That was intensely annoying.
>>
>> [1] Repeatedly unmounting and mounting the fs and doing other operations on
>> it in a tight loop trying to track down an odd mmap() cache consistency issue
>> on FreeBSD with zfs.
>
> I'm not sure why this is a zfs rant, when freebsd has announced
> that zfs is a work in progress on freebsd, and is not ready for
> production use yet.
>
> If I could be bothered, I could work up a rant about people
> ranting about wrong things.
I'd argue that ZFS on Solaris is a work in progress, and is not ready
for production use yet.
My life lesson: don't trust data to an FS that lacks a proper fsck.
It's really sucky to have to develop one yourself for a failed system.
--
Matt Erickson <pea...@peawee.net>
"But after writing the assembler, and then spending a couple days on the
welcome screen of the actual app, I ran out of patience and went back to
playing games." -- David Wojtowicz
Joe Zeff
> I'm more annoyed by the mouse that's taken residence in my kitchen. I've
> so far bated my (humane) trap with pate, bacon, chocolate and cereal and
> he's ignored all of it.
Try peanut butter. I'm told it often works. Or, since you mention that
it likes bread, try some of that.
--
Joe Zeff -- The Guy With The Sideburns: http://www.zeff.us http://
www.lasfs.info
Actually, I quite enjoy getting "snarfed"
Chris Suslowicz
Dave <jrz...@qfy.cvcrk.pbz> wrote:
>I'm more annoyed by the mouse that's taken residence in my kitchen. I've
>so far bated my (humane) trap with pate, bacon, chocolate and cereal and
>he's ignored all of it.
Peanut butter.
Chris.
--
"... gulls outside his window were interfering with his voice-activated
computer. Apparently, every time a seagull let out a loud squawk, his
computer would type up the word 'Aldershot' on this screen." -- RISKS 20.36
Tai
> On 2008-05-19, Tai <t...@urd.spidernet.to> pondered onto the tubes:
>> While pretending to be roadkill on the InfoBahn, <rmt...@ichotolot.servalan.com> scrawled:
>>
>> I'm not sure why this is a zfs rant, when freebsd has announced
>> that zfs is a work in progress on freebsd, and is not ready for
>> production use yet.
>
> for production use yet.
Sure. I might even agree with you. But, this is the monastery.
Surely a rant should be correctly targetted? Since when is a declared
"work in progress", "do not use in prod" something you should bitch
about when it eats your lunch?
-Tai "dangerously close to revoking your Pedants 'r' Us license"
Richard Todd
> While pretending to be roadkill on the InfoBahn, <rmt...@ichotolot.servalan.com> scrawled:
>> Assuming you're lucky. If by "metadata" you mean things like the free
>> space maps, I managed to get a ZFS fs to a point where the damn thing
>> paniced immediately upon importing the pool. (Admittedly the system had
>> been Severely Provoked to get it to this state, doing somethings that were
>> somewhat far from Normal Usage. [1]) That was intensely annoying.
>>
>> [1] Repeatedly unmounting and mounting the fs and doing other operations on
>> it in a tight loop trying to track down an odd mmap() cache consistency issue
>> on FreeBSD with zfs.
>
> I'm not sure why this is a zfs rant, when freebsd has announced
> that zfs is a work in progress on freebsd, and is not ready for
> production use yet.
Well, yeah. The fact that ZFS on FreeBSD is rather new is well known, and
means that little oddities like the mmap() issue should be expected. This
didn't bother me.
The point of the rant is that, in 2008, three decades after the first
version of fsck(8) appeared in Unix, if you're someone who's smart
enough to be paid to write filesystem code for someone, It Shouldn't
Be A Fucking Surprise That Filesystems Can Get Corrupted And Need A
Repair Tool. "Oh, our filesystem is so well designed that it can't
ever get corrupted, because we are Clever." Right. Pull the other
one, it's got bells on.
(And yes, for the record, the FS I dealt with, I *did* have good backups
of I could have used if needed. The point of the hacking-zfs-to-mount-
the-corrupted-pool exercise was at least as much to learn how one might
handle such an emergency as to actually get the data back. And, to some
extent, to be able to say I managed to recover the data by hacking my own
workaround around the absence of suitable tools provided by the FS designer.)
Zebee Johnstone
Dave Brown <dagb...@LART.ca> wrote:
>
> Just shut up and do your job. And when things break, you have no
> right to complain! You shouldn't have been using broken stuff in
> the first place, after all! Even when the vendor says that it's
> perfectly okay to use it on the vendor's OS on the vendor's
> hardware in production! Which is of course as loud and clear a
> warning that one should never use such a thing in production as
> one could possibly get!
Ah, you have dealt with EMC too eh?
OK, to say "vendor's OS" is a bit of a stretch but the theory's there.
Mylar paper tape I say - bugger this disk thing.
Zebee
Dave
> While pretending to be roadkill on the InfoBahn, <two...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> scrawled:
>> In article <u3aoes...@qfy.cvcrk.pbz>, Dave <jrz...@qfy.cvcrk.pbz> wrote:
>>
>>>I'm more annoyed by the mouse that's taken residence in my kitchen. I've
>>>so far bated my (humane) trap with pate, bacon, chocolate and cereal and
>>>he's ignored all of it.
>>
>> Raisins are good; I got through seven mice on raisins.
>
> My father just hung a piece of bread on the hook of the trap,
> and burnt it. They like toast, apparently.
Well, I would, but the fscker ate all by bread.
Dave
> I've had good success with peanut paste (peanut butter).
Well that seems to be the consensus.
Now - any ideas as to what to do with an unwanted, nearly full jar of
peanut butter? I can't abide the horrible stuff.
Maybe it'll go for CCCB's... I just got a new packet in. of course, if
he manages to eat one and not get trapped, I'll never be able to catch
the bugger. He already moves like greased lightning - I don't need him
to be caffinated as well.
Matt Erickson
We tried catching ours, until it ended up drowning itself in the
toilet. Really easy cleanup.
--
Matt Erickson <pea...@peawee.net>
"Tea will get you through times of no sex more than sex can get you through
times of no tea." - Tai, Usenet
Joe Zeff
> Now - any ideas as to what to do with an unwanted, nearly full jar of
> peanut butter? I can't abide the horrible stuff.
Instead of buying a jar, see if a friend or neighbor will give you a dab
of it. Furrfu naq qbhoyr-furrfu!
--
Joe Zeff -- The Guy With The Sideburns: http://www.zeff.us http://
www.lasfs.info
A watched pot never boils.
An unwatched pot always boils over.
Tai
> On Tue, 20 May 2008 15:35:15 +0000, Dave wrote:
>> Now - any ideas as to what to do with an unwanted, nearly full jar of
>> peanut butter? I can't abide the horrible stuff.
>
> Instead of buying a jar, see if a friend or neighbor will give you a dab
> of it. Furrfu naq qbhoyr-furrfu!
Aren't you assuming a little too much? Friends? Why, you might
as well ask him to get a unicorn at the same time.
-Tai
Peter Corlett
[...]
> Now - any ideas as to what to do with an unwanted, nearly full jar of
> peanut butter? I can't abide the horrible stuff.
Curry it: the nasty texture goes away.
David Taylor
Once again, google confirms that for any subject you can imagine,
there are multiple web pages about it...
--
David Taylor
Niklas Karlsson
For any subject you _can't_ imagine, there's at least one.
Niklas
--
You know you're in trouble when the Russians are adding safety
features to your design.
-- Maciej Ceglowski on Buran, the Space Shuttle clone
Jasper Janssen
>BDFH <bdf...@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> I've had good success with peanut paste (peanut butter).
>
>Well that seems to be the consensus.
>
>Now - any ideas as to what to do with an unwanted, nearly full jar of
>peanut butter? I can't abide the horrible stuff.
Make satay sauce.
Jasper
Jasper Janssen
<rmt...@ichotolot.servalan.com> wrote:
>Tai <t...@urd.spidernet.to> writes:
>> I'm not sure why this is a zfs rant, when freebsd has announced
>> that zfs is a work in progress on freebsd, and is not ready for
>> production use yet.
>
>Well, yeah. The fact that ZFS on FreeBSD is rather new is well known, and
>means that little oddities like the mmap() issue should be expected. This
>didn't bother me.
>
>The point of the rant is that, in 2008, three decades after the first
>version of fsck(8) appeared in Unix, if you're someone who's smart
>enough to be paid to write filesystem code for someone, It Shouldn't
>Be A Fucking Surprise That Filesystems Can Get Corrupted And Need A
>Repair Tool. "Oh, our filesystem is so well designed that it can't
>ever get corrupted, because we are Clever." Right. Pull the other
>one, it's got bells on.
If nothing else, you can get physical corruption on disks and/or buses or
in the disk device drivers, even if the FS code is (snort.) perfect.
Especially if there are, say, memory errors on the machine and the FS code
gets a couple of bits flipped as well.
Jasper
Dave
> Aren't you assuming a little too much? Friends? Why, you might
> as well ask him to get a unicorn at the same time.
Oh, that'd be easy.
No, I found some PB in the flatmate's cupboard. The mouse has, so far,
ignored it.
After polishing off an entire loaf of granary bread, I'm hoping it's
just taking a long time to digest it all, and really doesn't recognise
the trap.
Dave
> Dave <jrz...@qfy.cvcrk.pbz> wrote in news:uprrhq...@qfy.cvcrk.pbz:
>
>> BDFH <bdf...@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> I've had good success with peanut paste (peanut butter).
>>
>> Well that seems to be the consensus.
>>
>> Now - any ideas as to what to do with an unwanted, nearly full jar of
>> peanut butter? I can't abide the horrible stuff.
>>
>
> Cruise through McDogburger breakfast session
Not on this side of the pond... I was in an unfamiliar bit of town on
Monday and had occasion to buy a McMechanicallyRecoveredPorkBasedPatty
with egg. It came with passable tea, but not even brown sause, let alone
anything like peanut butter.
Dave
> Make satay sauce.
Thanks for all the suggestions, e.g. curry, satay, etc. Anyone got one
that doesn't end up with something that tastes of peanuts? (Yuck)
Why can't a mouse with taste and refinement that likes pistachio nuts
instead.
Jim
>>
>> Cruise through McDogburger breakfast session
>
> Not on this side of the pond... I was in an unfamiliar bit of town on
> Monday and had occasion to buy a McMechanicallyRecoveredPorkBasedPatty
> with egg. It came with passable tea, but not even brown sause, let alone
> anything like peanut butter.
Some time ago (last year as I recall) I had occasion to have a McDonalds
bacon&egg bagel. I'm not proud, I was just very, very hungry.
I was impressed. I've never eaten anything quite like it - it was as though
they'd found a way of removing almost _all_ flavour from it. Seriously. It
was the epitome of bland. Really very, very strange.
It actually made the coffee seem quite pleasant in comparison, and _that's_
saying something.
Jim
--
http://www.ursaMinorBeta.co.uk http://twitter.com/GreyAreaUK
"Sometimes when I talk to a Windows person about using a Mac,
I feel like I'm explaining Van Halen to a horse." Merlin Mann
John Burnham
>
> I was impressed. I've never eaten anything quite like it - it was as though
> they'd found a way of removing almost _all_ flavour from it. Seriously. It
> was the epitome of bland. Really very, very strange.
>
A friend of mine still speaks in hushed tones of horror of the Wimpy
greaseburger he had the misfortune to encounter on a trip to York. Wimpy
was a truly British fast food place - it had the nastiness of the fast
food down to a tee, but also had terrifically slow and surly service too.
I thought the chain had long since disappeared but I encountered one in a
motorway service station somewhere on the way to some remote bit of Wales
last year. I avoided eating there in favour of an overly expensive cup of
coffee from some poncey coffee place instead.
J
Jim
There are indeed a few of the wretched places still around. There's one at
the M6 J17 southbound services - I always try to be doing 80mph when I pass
it, lest I smell it.
Dave
> A friend of mine still speaks in hushed tones of horror of the Wimpy
> greaseburger he had the misfortune to encounter on a trip to York. Wimpy
> was a truly British fast food place
Indeed it was truly British - it was -specifically- created by Lyons
after they heard about fast food just after the war. But, as it was
started in the fifties, it had the particularly misfortune to suffer
from rationing, British corporate attitudes to customer service, and
direction by people who'd only -heard- of American fast food.
It started to disappear in the 80's, mostly because consumers realised
that McD's was actually -better-.
Even the name sends me right back to the seventies/eighties - reminds me
of Walls and Lyons Maid ice-cream. I'm not even sure if that stuff is even legal
these days, since it was entirely made from vegetable fats and
additives. Real ice-cream was re-introduced into the UK by
Harg^H^H Haarg^H^H Nestle, AFAIK.
Peter Corlett
[...]
> Even the name sends me right back to the seventies/eighties - reminds me
> of Walls and Lyons Maid ice-cream. I'm not even sure if that stuff is even
> legal these days, since it was entirely made from vegetable fats and
> additives. Real ice-cream was re-introduced into the UK by Harg^H^H
> Haarg^H^H Nestle, AFAIK.
"That stuff", or at least Mr. Whippy, was invented in the 1950s by an
unknown research chemist called Margaret Hilda Roberts. After convincing
people to buy something that was 90% hot air and industrial waste, it was
inevitable that she would do the same trick again as Prime Minister in the
1980s.
Chris Suslowicz
Jim <j...@magrathea.plus.com> wrote:
>On 2008-05-21, Dave <jrz...@qfy.cvcrk.pbz> wrote:
>>>
>>> Cruise through McDogburger breakfast session
>>
>> Not on this side of the pond... I was in an unfamiliar bit of town on
>> Monday and had occasion to buy a McMechanicallyRecoveredPorkBasedPatty
>> with egg. It came with passable tea, but not even brown sause, let alone
>> anything like peanut butter.
>
>Some time ago (last year as I recall) I had occasion to have a McDonalds
>bacon&egg bagel. I'm not proud, I was just very, very hungry.
>
>I was impressed. I've never eaten anything quite like it - it was as though
>they'd found a way of removing almost _all_ flavour from it. Seriously. It
>was the epitome of bland. Really very, very strange.
That sounds like that tales of workers at Nuclear Electric[1], who swore
they had seen tankers labelled "Bland" making deliveries to the canteen.
>It actually made the coffee seem quite pleasant in comparison, and _that's_
>saying something.
<Wince>
Chris.
[1] Barnwood, Gloucs. UK, sometime in the 1990s.
--
Stevo: And I don't do veggies if I can help it.
Iain: If you could see your colon, you'd be horrified.
David: If he could see his colon, he'd be management.
-- Stevo, Iain D Broadfoot and David Scheidt in asr.
Joe Zeff
> I was impressed. I've never eaten anything quite like it - it was as
> though they'd found a way of removing almost _all_ flavour from it.
> Seriously. It was the epitome of bland. Really very, very strange.
Just remember that McBarfles has always fit their menu to the palate of a
seven-year-old. That's just one of the reasons I've done my best to
ignore them for over 30 years: I have a somewhat more sophisticated idea
of what tastes good.
Peter Corlett
[...]
> That sounds like that tales of workers at Nuclear Electric[1], who swore
> they had seen tankers labelled "Bland" making deliveries to the canteen.
If the van I've spotted outside our canteen is any guide, they're called
Oenxrf Oebf these days.
c...@nospam.netunix.com
>
> That sounds like that tales of workers at Nuclear Electric[1], who swore
> they had seen tankers labelled "Bland" making deliveries to the canteen.
>
But strangely the twin just down the road at Berkeley served up some half
decent food plus you could take a nice walkdown the coast path in summer
after lunch to aid the digestion.
--
From the quill of Chris Newport g4jci.
John F. Eldredge
The Wimpy Burger chain made it to the US side of the Atlantic. Back in
the late 1980's, I bought a burger at a Wimpy Burger restaurant here in
Nashville, Tennessee (as I recall, it was a small kiosk, dealing with
walk-up and drive-up customers, but having no seating). Having tasted
the result, I never went back to it again. The restaurant closed around
1990.
--
John F. Eldredge -- jo...@jfeldredge.com
PGP key available from http://pgp.mit.edu
"Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better
than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria
Joe Bednorz
wrote in <g12n1f$buv$2...@sheepdip.leftmind.net>:
>
>I fondly recall a management lecture several years ago, the gist of which
>was that the software obviously had a magical "Stop Sucking" switch which
>I, no doubt due to some personality failing, had been resisting frobbing
>for the benefit of all company-kind.
Cue story of "NOSMOKE.EXE"
http://groups.google.com/group/bit.listserv.techwr-l/msg/ba84dbeb7dc61fb6?dmode=source
--
Links to GB of free SF: <http://www.mindspring.com/~jbednorz/Free/>
All the Best, Joe Bednorz
Alan J. Wylie
>> I fondly recall a management lecture several years ago, the gist of
>> which was that the software obviously had a magical "Stop Sucking"
>> switch which I, no doubt due to some personality failing, had been
>> resisting frobbing for the benefit of all company-kind.
> Cue story of "NOSMOKE.EXE"
> http://groups.google.com/group/bit.listserv.techwr-l/msg/ba84dbeb7dc61fb6?dmode=source
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.unix.aix/msg/5c1d42bc23457add
--
Alan J. Wylie http://www.wylie.me.uk/
"Perfection [in design] is achieved not when there is nothing left to add,
but rather when there is nothing left to take away."
-- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Graham Reed
> I've had good success with peanut paste (peanut butter). Just a small dab
> on the trigger, or the cunning baskets get a free feed without the
> associated penalty.
Chunky PB with a peanut piece wedged into the curl on the bait pedal
works a treat.
But don't over-do the rest of it, or yes, you're feeding them....
I swear mice around my place thrive on all consumer-available poisons,
especially Warfarin. The ones the exterminators can get, though, work
great.
--
"You are a winner. But that doesn't mean you aren't a loser."
-- [jealous] co-worker after I won two iPods
Graham Reed
> Instead of buying a jar, see if a friend or neighbor will give you a dab
> of it. Furrfu naq qbhoyr-furrfu!
Or a trip to a breakfast place that has those little foil-topped trays
of PB and jelly... now I want breakfast.
--
"If you have to ask what kind of meat it is, you're too sober."
-- Rincewind the Wizard
Mike Andrews
Anthony de Boer - USEnet <ab...@leftmind.net> wrote in
<g15d82$ol6$1...@sheepdip.leftmind.net>:
> Alan J. Wylie posted thus:
>>Joe Bednorz <inv...@invalid.invalid> writes:
>>> Cue story of "NOSMOKE.EXE"
>>>
>>http://groups.google.com/group/bit.listserv.techwr-l/msg/ba84dbeb7dc61fb6?dmode=source
>>
>>http://groups.google.com/group/comp.unix.aix/msg/5c1d42bc23457add
> There's the classic story of the customer phoning in reporting smoke
> coming out of the machine and being asked "What colour?" The closest
> verifiable variation I'm aware of was the one where SWMBO asked the
> customer "What calibre?" after their machine got shot.
> (Turned out it'd been 12ga buckshot, and a Personal System Half is
> prettymuch done for at that point.)
> Then there was the time someone phoned the Assistance Desk at Trep to ask
> if there was a quick-shutdown command, as the water in their computer
> room was about to engulf the three-phase power supply in the base of the
> system cabinet. It was fairly quiet in the office, at least until the
> co-worker in the hotseat that morning screamed "GET OUT!!!"
Frank Baird, at OKDHS, once heard a circular saw outside the sysprog
area, and then saw the blade coming down the wall _inside_ that area,
headed for a quad power outlet box. He had just time to shout "Turn it
all off *NOW*!" before the blade went into the box, with attendant
lightshow and then Lots Of Dark.
My personal fave is the time the _building_ UPS for the building where
Wilson Foods then had its datacenter got wet. *Very* wet: it was in
the basement of the parking garage, under the building proper, and the
pumps couldn't keep up with the torrential rain. There was at least
six feet of water above the floor, and the UPS ate 480 VAC 3-phase.
Lots of it. Nobody went down to investigate, after they saw that the
cars in the garage were all submerged.
--
[Once in a lifetime opportunity] is simply a veiled reference to the
staff contract termination procedure, which involves a sunny wall,
a single cigarette and some middling to average marksmen...
-- Dan Holdsworth
Zebee Johnstone
Anthony de Boer - USEnet <ab...@leftmind.net> wrote:
>
> There's the classic story of the customer phoning in reporting smoke
> coming out of the machine and being asked "What colour?" The closest
> verifiable variation I'm aware of was the one where SWMBO asked the
> customer "What calibre?" after their machine got shot.
I was rather glad that the sprinker system (I kid you not) that was
the replacement for the now-illegal halogen was not yet live when the
Pick box's tape drive let out copious quantities of black smoke.
Would have made a bit of a mess of the place I think.
> Then there was the time someone phoned the Assistance Desk at Trep to ask
> if there was a quick-shutdown command, as the water in their computer
> room was about to engulf the three-phase power supply in the base of the
> system cabinet. It was fairly quiet in the office, at least until the
> co-worker in the hotseat that morning screamed "GET OUT!!!"
I don't know how long it took the errant airconditioners to put enough
water into the underfloor area to get the level up to the bottom slot
of the power sockets under there. It is the ground pin so I suppose
I wasn't it *massive* danger when I pulled up a panel in computer room
floor to plug something in and felt it as a reached in before looking.
Didn't stop me running out yelling "oh shit" though.
Zebee
John F. Eldredge
> Then there was the time someone phoned the Assistance Desk at Trep to
> ask if there was a quick-shutdown command, as the water in their
> computer room was about to engulf the three-phase power supply in the
> base of the system cabinet. It was fairly quiet in the office, at least
> until the co-worker in the hotseat that morning screamed "GET OUT!!!"
Yes, that sounds like the sort of situation that would probably lead to a
quick shutdown of any humans still in the computer room, unless they were
standing on a non-conductive object that extended above water level.
Niklas Karlsson
>
> There's the classic story of the customer phoning in reporting smoke
> coming out of the machine and being asked "What colour?" The closest
> verifiable variation I'm aware of was the one where SWMBO asked the
> customer "What calibre?" after their machine got shot.
>
> prettymuch done for at that point.)
Well, some Monks of old(ish) certainly seemed to run training scenarios
for that eventuality.
Niklas
--
Not to be daunted, we pulled out the heavy artillery, and one .45 caliber bullet
caused the swap drive to suddenly cease swapping, one more caused a large
flaring assembly of sparks as it hit the AC<->DC power supply and said system
ceased functioning in about a quarter of a second. -- Derek Balling, asr
Dave
> I swear mice around my place thrive on all consumer-available poisons,
> especially Warfarin. The ones the exterminators can get, though, work
> great.
Yes, but I'm a flat sharing with an overly enthusiastic enviromentalist
- she objects to putting down ant poison and berates the recycling
people for not taking enough different sorts of household crap. She'd
rather let the mouse eat all her food than kill the fscker.
Besides, it's still feeding on -something- in the house, as the sod is
completely ignoring all the food we putting in the trap. Just haven't
found -what- yet.
Mike Andrews
then trying to run away. Doesn't work in my cube.
On Fri, 23 May 2008 14:28:21 GMT,
Dave <jrz...@qfy.cvcrk.pbz> wrote in
<ufxs9p...@qfy.cvcrk.pbz>:
> Graham Reed <gr...@pobox.com> writes:
You will, eventually. It will, of course, be something treasured *and*
irreplaceable.
--
Fairy Tails start "Once upon a time."
Army/Sea stories start "This is no shit."
Software proposals start "1.0."
-- Joe Zeff, in a.s.r.
Peter Corlett
[...]
> Yes, but I'm a flat sharing with an overly enthusiastic enviromentalist -
> she objects to putting down ant poison and berates the recycling people
> for not taking enough different sorts of household crap.
You'll be wanting Dethlac for the ants. It dries to a clear film that she
won't notice.
Dave
> I keep reading the subject and thinking "Zermelo-Fraenkel Set", and
> then trying to run away. Doesn't work in my cube.
>
> On Fri, 23 May 2008 14:28:21 GMT,
> Dave <jrz...@qfy.cvcrk.pbz> wrote in
> <ufxs9p...@qfy.cvcrk.pbz>:
>
>> Besides, it's still feeding on -something- in the house, as the sod is
>> completely ignoring all the food we putting in the trap. Just haven't
>> found -what- yet.
>
> You will, eventually. It will, of course, be something treasured *and*
> irreplaceable.
No, my C<= PRG, my John Wyndham books and my boxed copies of The
Lost Treasures of Infocom are still intact. It's concievable it might
start gnawing on my rebadged Odhner calculator, but in that case, it's
more at risk of loosing it's teeth than I am of loosing anything
valuable.
Haven't seen my NTK 'Elite' t-shirt in a while though.
Dave
You don't think the carpet of dead ants will be a bit of a give away?
Perhaps not, I could blame it on natural causes. Maybe the mouse
stomped all over them in a godzilla-like rampage.
Robert Uhl
>
>> Besides, it's still feeding on -something- in the house, as the sod
>> is completely ignoring all the food we putting in the trap. Just
>> haven't found -what- yet.
>
> You will, eventually. It will, of course, be something treasured *and*
> irreplaceable.
Cue story of the Elizabethan hat I painstakingly researched and stitched
by hand. And found a year later, with holes eaten in it. I was Not
Amused.
--
I wasn't prepared to debug _anything_ at this point. Smash
things into little bits, yes. Debug, no. --Graham Reed
Graham Reed
> It Shouldn't Be A Fucking Surprise That Filesystems Can Get
> Corrupted And Need A Repair Tool.
I can't get certain cow-orkers to believe that code that's hardened
against security issues is _also_ hardened against generic fat-finger
errors, bad data errors, corrupt link errors, and so on.
Fortunately, my manager knows why I was hired, so he's not doing any
coding that runs anywhere near a web server. Even on the internal
network. (I still think intranet is a stupid term.)
--
But it is for a good reason. Not dying on the job is cool.
-- Randy the Random in the Monastery
Graham Reed
> Just so long as it's not Pb and smokeless, we're OK.
How am I going to amuse myself on Queen St W over breakfast without
some Pb and smokeless? I don't think that mini-gun the Mythbusters
got to play with is allowed around here.
Mike Andrews
Graham Reed <gr...@pobox.com> wrote in
<87skw87...@7deadly.org>:
> ab...@leftmind.net (Anthony de Boer - USEnet) writes:
>> Just so long as it's not Pb and smokeless, we're OK.
> How am I going to amuse myself on Queen St W over breakfast without
> some Pb and smokeless? I don't think that mini-gun the Mythbusters
> got to play with is allowed around here.
Hmmmmmm ... what are the energy requirements for a 5 cm railgun? Then
what are the requirements for a Gatling-style 5 cm railgun. Wanna bet
DOD doeswn't have someone working on just that?
--
Mark> [Re: Aliens] What *I've* always wanted to know is why loss of [the
Mark> reactor's heat] exchanger didn't cause the multi-billion-dollar
Mark> installation to perform a safe auto-shutdown.
Mike> The real-time control system ran Windows, of course.
Tai
> Considering the reputation BcraOFQ has, it _should_ be a lot easier
> outta-the-box to get it to mirror a couple of drives to better protect
> whatever data it was you cared enough about to have gone and gotten a
> copy of BcraOFQ to put it on.
Unfortunately, that's difficult to do properly, and raidframe
has bitrotted, and was too big to include in the standard kernel.
They're currently working on softraid which seems to be quite a bit
cleaner. They're weird like that, wanting to simplify shit even if it
means re-writing things. And not caring how long it takes to do it
properly. Any requests or rants simply gets a standard reply - where're
your code or who're you sponsoring to do the coding? Bastardly bunch.
-Tai
--
http://www.vcnet.com/bms/features/serendipities.html
http://www.kenthamilton.net/humor/humor.html
http://www.despair.com/demotivators/cluelessness.html
"What we have done with PCs so far is not natural" - Craig Mundie, CTO Microsoft
Jasper Janssen
>Some time ago (last year as I recall) I had occasion to have a McDonalds
>bacon&egg bagel. I'm not proud, I was just very, very hungry.
Once, in Heathrow, I had occasion to eat a mcdonalds breakfast thingy that
sounds like that, although not a bagel. More like bacon and egg muffin, I
think.
It wasn't flavourless, but, by god, the *grease*. It was dripping right
through the oiled paper. Regular mcdonalds fare is positively lean by
comparison.
Jasper
Alan J Rosenthal
>(I still think intranet is a stupid term.)
It certainly is. Especially now that its meaning has settled on referring
to a web server, rather than to a network.
David Gersic
> On Wed, 21 May 2008 12:19:23 +0100, Jim <j...@magrathea.plus.com> wrote:
>
>>Some time ago (last year as I recall) I had occasion to have a McDonalds
>>bacon&egg bagel. I'm not proud, I was just very, very hungry.
>
> Once, in Heathrow, I had occasion to eat a mcdonalds breakfast thingy that
> sounds like that, although not a bagel. More like bacon and egg muffin, I
> think.
That may have been an "Egg McMuffin". Or it could have been one of their
"Biscuit" things.
> It wasn't flavourless, but, by god, the *grease*. It was dripping right
> through the oiled paper. Regular mcdonalds fare is positively lean by
> comparison.
About once a year, I really get a craving for their "Bacon Egg and Cheese
Biscuit". I don't know why. It's probably not good for me, but I don't
think one will kill me either. These are a hand-sized "biscuit" sliced in
half, with a layer of scrambled egg, a small (round?) piece of "bacon",
and a small piece of yellow cheese like substance.
Jasper Janssen
<usenet_s...@zaccaria-pinball.com> wrote:
>On Sat, 24 May 2008 11:36:04 +0200, Jasper Janssen <jas...@jjanssen.org> wrote:
>> On Wed, 21 May 2008 12:19:23 +0100, Jim <j...@magrathea.plus.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Some time ago (last year as I recall) I had occasion to have a McDonalds
>>>bacon&egg bagel. I'm not proud, I was just very, very hungry.
>>
>> Once, in Heathrow, I had occasion to eat a mcdonalds breakfast thingy that
>> sounds like that, although not a bagel. More like bacon and egg muffin, I
>> think.
>
>That may have been an "Egg McMuffin". Or it could have been one of their
>"Biscuit" things.
Egg McMuffin sounds right. Well, vile, actually, but you know what I mean.
Jasper
Mike Andrews
Rob Adams <roba...@ozemail.com.au> wrote in
<oa6i34dec13rq9soi...@4ax.com>:
> On Fri, 23 May 2008 04:12:14 +0000 (UTC), "Mike Andrews"
> <mi...@mikea.ath.cx> wrote:
>>My personal fave is the time the _building_ UPS for the building where
>>Wilson Foods then had its datacenter got wet. *Very* wet: it was in
>>the basement of the parking garage, under the building proper, and the
>>pumps couldn't keep up with the torrential rain. There was at least
>>six feet of water above the floor, and the UPS ate 480 VAC 3-phase.
>>Lots of it. Nobody went down to investigate, after they saw that the
>>cars in the garage were all submerged.
> Isnt that a BOFH episode somewhere?
I dunno, but it was a real-life one, at the Lincoln Plaza office complex
at 4545 Lincoln Blvd. in okc.ok.us, back around 1985.
--
Cogent is a company with a perennial operating loss, and that's
not the kind of place that retains skilled knowledgeable staff or
managers. I'm pretty sure that 'knowingly' really doesn't apply to
much of anything they do. -- Bill Cole, in NANABl
Chris Suslowicz
Rob Adams <roba...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>On Thu, 22 May 2008 21:19:27 +0100, al...@wylie.me.uk (Alan J. Wylie)
>wrote:
>
>>Joe Bednorz <inv...@invalid.invalid> writes:
>>
>>>> I fondly recall a management lecture several years ago, the gist of
>>>> which was that the software obviously had a magical "Stop Sucking"
>>>> switch which I, no doubt due to some personality failing, had been
>>>> resisting frobbing for the benefit of all company-kind.
>>
>>> Cue story of "NOSMOKE.EXE"
>>> http://groups.google.com/group/bit.listserv.techwr-l/msg/ba84dbeb7dc61fb6?dmode=source
>>
>>http://groups.google.com/group/comp.unix.aix/msg/5c1d42bc23457add
>
>We have previously sent a broken power supply off to the appropriate
>repair department, with the fault report of 'Smoke has escaped, please
>reseal device and reinsert smoke'. It came back fixed with no comment.
I was minding my own business at Ork when there was a loud "Pop!" like
a big piece of bubblewrap meeting its end, and the light level changed.
A moments thought traced this to the (now dark) fluorescent fitting by
the door, so a ticket was raised: "...either the electronic ballast has
blown, or the weasel has escaped.". This caused a certain amount of
amusement and I got a message back (after the repair) that they had
been unable to find the weasel and had therefore fitted a new one.
Chris.
--
Madness takes its toll. Please have exact change.
Jasper Janssen
wrote:
>On 23 May 2008 04:21:00 GMT, Zebee Johnstone <zeb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>I don't know how long it took the errant airconditioners to put enough
>>water into the underfloor area to get the level up to the bottom slot
>>of the power sockets under there. It is the ground pin so I suppose
>>I wasn't it *massive* danger when I pulled up a panel in computer room
>>floor to plug something in and felt it as a reached in before looking.
>>Didn't stop me running out yelling "oh shit" though.
>
DYM "You girly man you"?
Jasper
Dave
> I am, of course, referring to getting a cat.
Not my house, unfortunately. Personally, I'd love a cat. It's right up
there on the list of things to buy once the housing market has finished
imploding, just behind 'house' and ahead of 'new bed'.
Peter Corlett
[...]
> Not my house, unfortunately. Personally, I'd love a cat. It's right up
> there on the list of things to buy once the housing market has finished
> imploding, just behind 'house' and ahead of 'new bed'.
I have "wall of fully-fitted book cases" ahead of the cat, but otherwise,
you are me.
Dave
> Since you can't really own a cat anyway, why not adopt one? I knew one
> who had five families, all neighbours, each of whom thought they were
> solely responsible for feeding him.
Ah, yes, we had one too. Unfortunately, it was only under my bedroom
window it sat, mewing, for an hour at dawn every morning for a month. We
started buying it cat-food, onto for it to immediately sod off as
soon as we did. Ungrateful little bugger.
John F. Eldredge
> Dave wrote:
>
>>Not my house, unfortunately. Personally, I'd love a cat. It's right up
>>there on the list of things to buy once the housing market has finished
>>imploding, just behind 'house' and ahead of 'new bed'.
>
> Since you can't really own a cat anyway, why not adopt one? I knew one
> who had five families, all neighbours, each of whom thought they were
> solely responsible for feeding him.
>
> R
Ah, one of those cats that starts resembling a fur-covered basketball.
--
John F. Eldredge -- jo...@jfeldredge.com
PGP key available from http://pgp.mit.edu
"Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better
than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria
Shmuel Metz
at 10:44 AM, ab...@cabal.org.uk (Peter Corlett) said:
>I have "wall of fully-fitted book cases" ahead of the cat,
One wall? I don't have a room with a wall long enough to hold enough book
cases, not even if I limit it to the SF.
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <http://patriot.net/~shmuel> ISO position
Reply to domain Patriot dot net user shmuel+bspfh to contact me.
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)
Peter Corlett
> ab...@cabal.org.uk (Peter Corlett) said:
[...]
>> I have "wall of fully-fitted book cases" ahead of the cat,
> One wall? I don't have a room with a wall long enough to hold enough book
> cases, not even if I limit it to the SF.
I can only afford a small flat, and an even smaller collection of books to
store within.
Besides, "another three walls of fully-fitted book cases" comes after the
cat.
Matt Erickson
pondered onto the tubes:
> In <g1golo$t4p$1...@mooli.org.uk>, on 05/27/2008
> at 10:44 AM, ab...@cabal.org.uk (Peter Corlett) said:
>
>>I have "wall of fully-fitted book cases" ahead of the cat,
>
> One wall? I don't have a room with a wall long enough to hold enough book
> cases, not even if I limit it to the SF.
Some time ago, there was a discussion on bookshelves that folks here
had made/obtained that were decent for storage, display, *and*
transportation. My giggle-fu is too weak apparently to dig it up, so
I bring it up here again.
I don't have as many friends^Wbooks as I'd like, but
it's still a pain in the arse to pack them into boxes every time I
move, and my cheap plastic shelving's been permenantly deflected
downwards by 2" over a ~16" span (giggle "yaffa blocks"), with stress
cracks. Anyone have suggestions?
--
Matt Erickson <pea...@peawee.net>
"Tea will get you through times of no sex more than sex can get you through
times of no tea." - Tai, Usenet
Joe Zeff
> Besides, "another three walls of fully-fitted book cases" comes after
> the cat.
If all you need is three walls covered with book cases, your "collection"
is too small to matter. I have a friend who lives alone in a two-bedroom
apartment. The second bedroom is his library. It's filled with
bookshelves, library style: they go almost from wall to wall with just one
winding corridor between them.
--
Joe Zeff -- The Guy With The Sideburns: http://www.zeff.us http://
www.lasfs.info
"Top of the line" probably means "Top of the shelf", from where it
dropped to the floor before they send it off.
Maarten Wiltink
news:g1msa3$47c$1...@news.acm.uiuc.edu...
[...]
> I don't have as many friends^Wbooks as I'd like, but
> it's still a pain in the arse to pack them into boxes every time I
> move, and my cheap plastic shelving's been permenantly deflected
> downwards by 2" over a ~16" span (giggle "yaffa blocks"), with stress
> cracks. Anyone have suggestions?
*Stop moving*.
Tebrgwrf,
Maarten Wiltink