Main sheet Control

[Thor Powell]

Something I have often mused about but ever tried it out.

Double Main Sheet Article Practical Sailor

https://www.practical-sailor.com/sails-rigging-deckgear/do-twin-sheets-better-control-the-mainsail?MailingID=682&st=email&sc=WIR20211212-ALookAtSails&utm_source=ActiveCampaign&utm_medium=email&utm_content=Do+Twin+Sheets+Better+Control+the+Mainsail%3F&utm_campaign=WIR20211212-ALookAtSails

[Ernie Abugov N22 - #56 "Moustaches" Toronto]

I, too, found this idea interesting but I am really concerned about a sheet running from either aft corner directly across the cockpit to the boom. It would, somewhat, mitigate an accidental gybe (at least, I think so) but it's a lot new stuff, etc. for I-am-not-sure-of-how-much-gain. Our boats don't have travelers and this idea seems to be an alternative to that aspect but in the case of a Nonsuch, I dunno ....

Ernie A. in Toronto

[Bob Neches (Me Gusta, Nonsuch 26U #233)]

I feel like I saw a diagram on the board awhile ago (Mark Powers, yours?) that sketched a top-down view of a Nonsuch with the boom at 90 degrees and suggested that the mainsheet angle would take the line over the side on a path that crossed near the winch on the coaming.

I can't find that diagram just now, but it'd be interesting to take it and sketch where the lines would run if it was a double mainsheet.

My snap impression is that it'd get messy, but that's just a guess.

-- Bob

   Me Gusta

   Nonsuch 26U #233

[Bob Neches (Me Gusta, Nonsuch 26U #233)]

Found Mark's sketch of an N30, added hypothetical double mainsheets. 

Here's how it might look:

-- Bob

   Me Gusta

   Nonsuch 26U #233

[Paul Miller]

Lots of traditional craft used the configuration but with only one sheet, not two. Of course controlling twist isn’t the the same issue with gaffers. 😁

PaulM

NS30U #211, Sandpiper 

Cowichan Bay B.C.

[Ernie Abugov N22 - #56 "Moustaches" Toronto]

What a gorgeous boat, Paul. But what is that long line that appears to be coming from the boom and disappears to the right out of the photo?

Ernie A. in Toronto

[Paul Miller]

Thanks Ernie, 

That’s Friendship, the boat I built myself when I retired. I sailed her for 12 years before going to the dark (fibreglass) side.😁

It was windy that day. That is my dinghy painter.

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Paul M

[Mark Powers La Reina 26C Vancouver, B.C.]

Ernie, My guess it is the painter running to the dinghy. It is an illusion that makes it look like a continuation of the sheer.

I can’t see the benefit of a double sheet system on a Nonsuch. We don’t trim in past the quarter. With no stays we let the boom way out so that the second sheet would knock the Grey Poupon off of the cockpit table. An uncontrolled gybe or a HRG would reach a new level of danger taking out the pedestal, wheel dodger (spray hood for those in the UK) the skipper and the crew.

Just imagine a 36 with 200 feet of mainsheet whipping across the cockpit.

Mark Powers

[Paul Miller]

The point seems to be about vanging. With a wishbone we don’t need to vang the boom.

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Paul M

[Ernie Abugov N22 - #56 "Moustaches" Toronto]

Ahhhh ...... Now I see it. It does just look like one long line from the end of the boom.

Paul. your boat reminds me of TALEISIN, Lin and Larry Pardey's terrific little vessel that I got the chance to check out at Annapolis in 1999. I hope you are proud of your boat - it's a stunner and a beautiful photo, to boot.

Ernie A. in Toronto

[Thor Powell]

200 feet. more is better ???

[Mark Powers La Reina 26C Vancouver, B.C.]

Mainsheet on a 36 is 100 feet. Two mainsheets would equal 200 feet. What could possibly go wrong when that comes whipping through the cockpit on a gybe.

Mark Powers

[n35s...@hotmail.com]

I had a twin sheet system on my Niagara 35 and quite liked it.At best it would unnecessary with a Nonsuch, at worst quite dangerous.

[Greg Silver]

Interesting discussion here, and wonderful to see pics of Mark's Friendship. Nonsuch has I think an elegant and simple mainsheet system already and I would not frig with it (except upgrading from single to two separate attachments on the aft deck, one dead-ended to a snap shackle). I also sail a Niagara 35 which has a double mainsheet known as a German mainsheet. It is ideal on the Niagara, eliminates the traveller and provides great sail control with down and inhauling sheets. 

My former gaff rigged Cape Cod Catboat ' Queen Celeste' had a double ended (continuous) sheet which required some strategic management when jibing especially. This has a towel bar traveller, unlike the Nonsuch that keeps the after part of the sheet clear, but the controlling ends can sweep the cockpit. See pic, that is Matthew in the background.

Another catboat we owned (yes we had a little fleet at one time) is the Wittholz 17 which we rigged with a German mainsheet - 2 separate sheets and tackles like the NIagara. Also pictured here. There was a lot of friction in this setup but it made it easy to get at a sheet from whatever side of the cockpit you need to be on. Crew ballast made a big difference in this boat especially gusting downwind.

Bests regards

Greg Silver

Misty Cat 26C #121

St. Peter's, Cape Breton

[Bob Neches (Me Gusta, Nonsuch 26U #233)]

Generally agree with Greg's post and enjoyed the pictures of other boats, but one comment reminded me of a related point I was going to post about:

• Nonsuch has I think an elegant and simple mainsheet system already and I would not frig with it (except upgrading from single to two separate attachments on the aft deck, one dead-ended to a snap shackle).

Phil LeVine and I just had fun on his N36 last week.  We had a catastrophic failure of the snap shackle,  dead-ended as one of the two separate attachments on the aft deck for his boat's mainsheet.  Suddenly, we were reduced to a one-part line, consisting of the mainsheet and broken snap shackle jammed in one end of the block on the boom, running from there back to the block on the aft deck, and thence to the winch.  So, we sorta still had a mainsheet, but with half the purchase. 

We talked about it afterwards and discovered that we'd both been vaguely wondering if that snap shackle was the right thing to be having there.  The difference was that Phil had been wondering for 18 years, while I'd only been wondering for the time I've known him.  But both of us had it on our back burner, assuming it'd worked in the past and whoever originally installed it must have had a reason.  (And, certainly, it was good enough for at least 18 years.)

I don't know that we came out of it with any conclusions, but it does trigger a couple of thoughts/questions:

• Maybe it's not just for fun, maybe it really is a good idea to replace some stuff just because it's old.
  
  
• What's the relationship of my mainsheet's breaking strength to the breaking strength of the fittings around it? 
  (In theory, we could've kept sailing even after the jam -- given Phil had an electric winch to deal with the purchase reduction -- but that really didn't seem like a good idea.  We didn't want to deal with completely losing any mainsheet connection to the boom.  So, we headed up, got a line on it, and dropped the sail.)
  
  
• When is it better to use a snap shackle, and when is it better to use a fixed shackle?  
  Does it matter as long as one pays attention to getting one with the proper breaking strength for the application?  On my own boat, I've always used fixed shackles on the reasoning that snap shackles are for applications when you want to be able to release something quickly.

[newelljc9]

The Wyliecat has the mainsheet rigged to both corners of the transom with blocks leading to winches forward. This allows for trimming the mainsheet from either side while providing double the hazard of being fouled by the port or starboard sides of the mainsheet or even both. 

One hazard was more than enough for me, so it was moved ahead of the dodger with only the bitter end being fed back to the winch on the starboard side of the cockpit. I use the standard wishbone sheet length for my 26 which is more than sufficient to run it to the mast and return it to the winch aft due to the boom attachment being located about 12' behind the mast. Nothing gets near the cockpit. 

When I sailed with the wishbone rig, I attached a snap shackle to the bitter end. In very light weather it could be removed from the block and attached to the sheet where it slid up the sheet to the block on the wishbone. This arrangement halved the weight of the sheet making it easier to keep the wishbone out at 90 degrees or more while running. If the wind piped up, it was necessary to return the snap shackle to its original position to regain   double the purchase.

John Newell

Mascouche 26C 1

Toronto