Anchor Rode for 26

[ken...@gmail.com]

I looked back on the posts about this topic but only found 2 opinions.  So, what do folks think is adequate chain and rope for a 26?  The boat currently has 10' 3/8" & 17' 5/16"  BBB chain and 3/8" rope which is darn heavy so I'm looking at going to 1/4" HT chain X 20' and 1/2" rope which will work in the less expensive windlasses.  Good enough or need heavier?  

Ken Julian

"Idyll Ours"  NS26C #9

Saint John, NB. Canada

[Mark Powers La Reina 26C Vancouver, B.C.]

When I first got La Reina she had 30 ft of 5/16" chain and 200' of what looked to be 3/4" double braid Nylon (the gold and white braid). At that time she had a manual windlass but I usually pulled it in by hand.  Old sporting injuries have gradually come home to roost and I now have 50' of 5/16" chain and 300' of 5/8" triple strand nylon and an electric windlass.  Remember the larger the diameter of the rope the easier it is on the hands to pull and lift.  The double braid 3/4" nylon was nice to work with.

My brother has 100' of 1/4" HT chain and then rope rode. I don't know the size of the rope. With 50' of chain I always have some rope out and don't require a snubber. With 100' of chain my brother sometimes finds he is still on chain and has to rig up a snubber. This may not be an issue for you depending on the depth you usually anchor in and the amount of scope you use.

The standard recommendation seems to be to have at least the boat length in chain was minimum. West Marine recommends 60' to 100' of chain.

For a 26' Nonsuch a minimum size chain of 1/4" high test or 5/16" BBB.  One issue you have to watch for is the shackle between the anchor and the chain. You can't use a very big shackle with 1/4" chain so you need to make sure you get a high quality load tested shackle. Do not try to save $15 or $20 by buying a cheap shackle. You need to use seizing wire to secure the shackle pin so it will not come loose.  If you use a swivel between the anchor and chain it is best to have a couple of links of chain between the swivel and the anchor. In some situations without the links the swivel cheeks will catch on the shank of the anchor and as the boat turns the shank will pry the swivel open. 

Here area a couple of links to anchor rode sizing. I consider a 26 Nonsuch to be a 30'-32' boat for selecting anchors and rode. They are heavy and have a lot of windage for the length. The Mantus site is nice because it considers the weight of the vessel in addition to the length. 

https://www.westmarine.com/WestAdvisor/Selecting-An-Anchor-Rode

https://www.mantusmarine.com/mantus-anchor-knowledgebase/rode-sizing/

Your chain and rope size seem to fit in to the recommended ranges but I would go to at least 30' of chain.  1/4" HT chain weights between .6 and .75 pounds a foot so about 22.5 pounds for 30' in the air less when it gains some bouncy in the water plus the weight of your anchor. 1/2" nylon 3 strand weighs about 1/10 of the 1/4" chain so even if you anchored in 100' the extra 70 felt of rope would only add about 5 lbs. Of course these calculations do not include the 30 pounds of mud and weeds clinging to the anchor.

Hope that helps. 

Mark Powers

[Ken Julian]

Thanks very much for your very useful reply, Mark.  

I will take your advice and probably use 50’ of chain and a high quality shackle. Definitely not a place to save $.  I’m guessing your chain isn’t HT since it’s 5/16”, or did you just want a beefier chain and rope? 

Ken Julian

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[Bob Neches (Me Gusta, Nonsuch 26U #233)]

We don't do much anchoring in my waters (and cue the orchestra playing, "Don't Get Around Much Anymore"), so most of what I know is book learning.  It seems like there are a lot of interesting articles on anchoring in Practical Sailor magazine (https://www.practical-sailor.com/).   They include suggestions ranging from increasing scope to reduce necessary rode weight, to sliding weights done the line to increase catenary, to evaluations of effectiveness of different anchors for different sea and bottom conditions.

Lacking personal experience, I can't make any recommendations, but would be interested in learning by hearing other folks' thoughts on these topics. 

I suspect there are at least a few of us out there with bad backs who'd be interested in what actually works for maximizing holding power while minimizing recovery effort.

--  Bob

    Me Gusta

    Nonsuch 26U #233

[Thor Powell]

We have 60 feet of 5/16 and 200 feet of 1/2 8 plaited line.. We anchor a good deal and with a 33 lb Bruce and it works very well. Manual windlass helps

On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 5:57:13 AM UTC-8 ken...@gmail.com wrote:

[John Alexander Stewart]

Hi Thor;

Interested in your manual windlass comment.

I think I remember that you have one of the neat old "bicycle chain" European windlasses. 

I have not changed the anchoring arrangement since purchase of our 26.

Right now:

- no windlass on our boat (Nonsuch 26C)

- "Kingston Anchor" CQR 27 pound on the bow, also came with an 18 pound grapnel, and two smaller grapnels.

- 3 anchor rodes, 2 with chain (1 boat length, maybe two??) and one just rode. 

- the 3 rodes are all braided, and 300 feet in total length.

(the above from my rough notes; actual lines are frozen in a shed outside the house here)

I know that you are fairly minimalist - which I agree with so three related questions:

Q1) what do you think about manual windlasses?

Q2)  do you pile the line on your boat, then feed it into the locker?

    - I would have said "pile - no way" but Kevin Boothby on How to Sail Oceans youtube piles it, then cleans it up later - he has a manual windlass)

Q3) Does your windlass handle the nylon rode as well as chain? 

  - The Lofrans - the only manual one sold now?? - does not specify a nylon rode size for the gypsy.

Q4) In hindsight - would you go electric, with the option of control in the cockpit?

Q5) - no Q5 regarding anchor selection - that's a topic unto itself. ;-)

I'll admit to not doing ANY anchoring on our Nonsuch yet; years ago on my Contessa 34 in the med, it was almost all anchoring, stern in, no slime-lines, no windlass, and a Danforth style anchor. So, I'm all ears for this topic!

John Stewart

NS26C  046 Bath ON.

[Barry Connell]

I know anchor/chain requirements for an N26 are different from those of my N36, but I replaced my entire anchoring system two seasons ago and it works great. I have a new Lewmar vertical capstan windlass adapted to either chain or rope. It can therefore haul the boat on a long line to kedge the boat off an obstruction if necessary. With 100’ of 5/8’ chain and 300 feet of 5/8’ nylon rode, the chain catenary combines with the stretchy nylon to reduce shock loading on my 35lb CQR. This system is backed up with a lightweight (18 lb) Fortress emergency hook that depoys from the cockpit. The  windlass/chain/rode/anchor system works like a charm on the rocky New England coast, and I hope never to use it to pull Nocturne off and obstruction. 

Good luck!

Barry Connell (N36 Nocturne)

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[Gary Forster]

Hiya Ken,

my two cent opinion focuses on the use rather than the size of a boat. I believe you should review where you anchor most and the types of conditions you expect to encounter on a regular basis. What sort of bottom conditions and exposure to the elements expected. Personally I anchor in 15 - 25 ft of water , usually mud, sand or occasionally, kelp. I anchor mostly in sheltered waters but always aware that I might need to drop an anchor at a given emergency event. 

I went to to various anchor sites  (read a lot - had a 20H Danforth prior) and settled on the Vulcan version of the Rochnar anchor. Its a variation of a Bruce/CQR hybrid as its a heavy plow anchor but without a swivel head appropriate for a 30 foot boat. (but it's not as heavy as a CQR)  It's good for all the types of bottom I anchor in and sets well into the bottom . Then I upped the size for a 35/40 ft boat. Coupled an recommended sized chain to the larger anchor and added 100 feet of chain. Based on the depths we mostly anchor in (15 - 25 ft)   we often put out 75 to 100 ft of chain based on expected weather and sleep like babies.  ( Chain scope would be 5 to 1 vs the usual 7 to 1 scope recommended by most anchoring techniques.  Then added an exotic double braid found usually on SWAN sailboats. Knock wood, never dragged even sitting out an unexpected 40+ K squall line that came through on more than one occasion.  I am able to ease additional if needed.  Having all chain down reduces swing, increases chafe protection and increases confidence. I did install a windlass as I've become longer in the tooth and lazy. (a story for another time)

 Although I see where you are tides and depths could be a larger consideration. I hope my thought process helps you decide. best , Gary / ALOKI / NS 30329 / Oyster Bay NY 

[Paul Miller]

Anchoring in the gulf islands here in BC has obviously guided my decisions. On my 30U I have a 35# Mantus with 60’ of chain and lots of 7/8” three strand nylon. Both the anchor and rode are to suit the conditions. In summer here you often don’t have much room to anchor so an anchor that digs immediately is important, why I chose Mantus. The 60’ number for chain is because I usually anchor in 15’ to 35’ and in a shallow anchorage, all chain gives me a small swing radius. If the wind picks up and I need to increase scope, I get a snubber from the nylon as Mark mentioned.

Paul M

NS30U #211,

Cowichan Bay, B.C.

[Mark Powers La Reina 26C Vancouver, B.C.]

My chain is hight test. I went with 5/16 for extra weight and strength. Plus it allows a bigger shackle.  When I got her, La Reina had a 15 pound Bruce clone. Since then I have used 10 kg or 22 pound Claw or Rocna anchors. 

The manual windlass was a double action S-L Hyspeed Simpson Lawrence. Most of the time I used a 20" flat bar handle with it but I did have a 30" bar for more leverage and to let me stand up straighter. Even though it was a dual action windlass you only took in about 3"-6" of rode with a forward and back swing of the handle. With the long bar your hand traveled a long way to pull in that 6" of rode, as a result I would only use the windlass when it was too hard to break the anchor free. Usually because it had caught on something. Once the boat started moving forward it was easier and quicker to simply hand over hand the rode until I was over top of the anchor. If a few minute wait did not break the anchor free I would motor forward to break it out or use the windlass.  Once it was free I would go back to the hand over hand.  If there was heavy mud and or weeds on the anchor I would lift it with the windlass. The manual windlass had more ultimate lifting power than the electric, which is a 1000 series Lewmar Pro horizontal model. The Lewmar is suppose to have a maximum pull of 1000 pounds.  The gypsy on both windlasses would hand both chain and rope rode without any problem. If you buy a windlass you have to make sure the gypsy matches the rode you will use. 

Out here where Paul Miller and I anchor it is considered bad form to layout more than 3 to one scope. If the wind is predicted to pick up you can let out more as the wind builds and the boats all pull in the same direction. In one of our favourite bays we often end up anchoring in 60'. Add another 5' to the height of the deck and another 10' for the rising tide gives 75' or 225' at 3:1.  I just don't have enough rode to get to 5:1 in those situations.

 The safe working load for 5/16" Ht (G4) chain is about 3900 pounds. The breaking strength for 5/8" three strand nylon is about 11,500 pounds which puts safe working load at around 3800 pounds, close to that of the 5/16" chain. In most bottoms the anchor will drag before those limits are reached.  There is no question that in the light winds we normally anchor the chain will keep the swing circle smaller and that chain is far more resistant to chafe. I have always felt that 350 feet of 5/16" chain is too much for the bow of a 26 so I have gone for a compromise.    If the anchorage is tight I will sometimes hang a kellet (also referred to as a chum or angel) on the rode to cut down on the swing. I have a 10 pound lead fishing weight that I hook over the rode with a horse shoe shackle. I then lower it on a light line until it is just above the bottom at the lowest anticipated tide. If there is no wind it is enough weight to pull the rode straight down from the bow and she will gently swing around the kellet. If the wind or current picks up the rode stretches out but most of the other boats will stretch out their rode as well. 

When I hand the anchor rode I drop it straight down the hawse hole. It was easy with the manual windlass. With the electric I have to tie the spring loaded guide back to give enough room.  If you pile it on the deck it makes a real mess. I preferred the simplicity and reliability of the manual to the electric but the retrieval speed drove me crazy, which meant most of the time I went by hand which meant most of the time the back complained. I have a wired control in the starboard locker by the helm station and  a wireless remote to use at the bow. I went with the wireless so I did not have to drill holes in the deck for foot controls. 

I was able to install the electric windlass with the mast in place. It was difficult but possible. I choose the horizontal because it was close to layout of the manual windlass.  In hind sight I would have gone with a vertical windlass with a vertical motor. In order to install a vertical windlass with a horizontal motor the mast would have to come out. I mounted the breaker beside the companionway steps about 2' from the house bank. Most days I am happy that I got the electric windlass. 

Mark Powers

[Thor Powell]

The windlass is a Guindeau 308. Works very well and zero maintenance. I think they are still sold.

The 33 lb Bruce is bigger than most anchors you see on 26s but we have sat out some pretty impressive thunder storms, one off Leak Island in the 1000 Islands that registered 60 knots for a time veering all over the compass. So the admiral has no plans to down size the anchor... 

[ken...@gmail.com]

Hey Guys.  Thanks for all the great suggestions, links, etc.  I appreciate the time you all took to respond.  My conclusion from all this is that 1/4" HT chain, with 1/2" rope, and a 16 lb. anchor is the minimal requirement and does meet most specs.  But most of you guys have opted to go up a step or two to at least 5/16" HT chain, 5/8" rope, & 25-35 lb. anchors.  This seems to concur with several things I have read, where the "experts" recommend buying over the minimum required if your budget allows.  I think the 'minimal' setup would probably do me fine, anchoring in the shallower depths and pretty sheltered waters I tend to be in, but since it looks like it will only cost me a few hundred extra to upgrade to a windlass that will handle the larger rode, I'm leaning in that direction.  

[ken...@gmail.com]

Would there be any point in going to 5/16" chain & 5/8' rope with just a 16 lb. anchor?

Ken Julian 

"Idyll Ours"

NS25C #9

Saint John, NB

[Thor Powell]

The rode and chain need to stretch,  protected the rode from the bottom and act as a cantenary.  1/2 line and 1/4  chain has more than enough "strength" and will stretch more than larger line which lessens the force on the anchor.   i use 8 plait line vs 3 strand as it coils more easily in the locker.

I was told a long time ago that chain, twice the length of the boat, rode enough to go to 3:1 in the deepest water and 5:1 in the places you will be 80% of the time.  Anchors under 25lbs are not as effective as those over 25lbs.  I had a 22 lb delta that was no where nearly as effectice as my 33 lb bruce.  The thing the Bruce excels at is setting easily and resetting when the wind shifts.   There are other anchors that get good reviews like Rocna, but I have no experiance with them.

On the subject of line....dock line should be the length of the boat.

[Paul Miller]

Anyone pondering a new anchor would do well to take a trip down the rabbit hole on youtube with “SV Panope”. He has done exhaustive testing of a wide range of anchors and bottoms with real time video of the anchors setting (or not setting).

You can spend a lot of time there but it is not wasted.

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Paul M
NS30U #211, Sandpiper
Cowichan Bay B.C.

[Hinman, John]

+1 for Paul's remarks about S/V Panope and Thor's measurements. I lived in that rabbit hole for a few days last year before doing what my friend first suggested: get a Spade, which has been "set and forget" (and sleep well) during its first year. In our part of Maine the tides are usually 10-12 ft, so we're using 75 ft. of G4 chain and 150 ft of rode on our 30.

John Hinman

Larkspur N30U #351

Brooklin, ME

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[John Alexander Stewart]

Hi Paul; Captain Debra and I have watched this with rapt attention about a year ago. Nice thing to do when ensconced with a glass of wine or two, some nice nibbilies, a dog curled up by your feet, and snow falling outside. 

I do like the "roll bar" spade anchors (Rocna, Mantis) but with the design of our bowsprit, I don't know if that's on. Would be nice to borrow a Rocna 15 and just see if the sucker fits. The non-roll-bar anchors from these companies also sound ok, from what the scuttlebut says.

So, yes, I totally agree with watching this guy! 

I've included a picture of Cat's Whiskers' bowsprit; a CQR 27 on the roller. The "U" of the pulpit certainly looks like it'll interfere with a Rocna 15, (roll-bar spade anchor). I do have measurements, can model it all in 3D, but there's nothing like trying things out.

Another mitigating factor for  a windlass is, to keep the two sides of the bow railings together, low down is a cross-bar, which you can see in the picture if you squint.

Seemingly, Cat's Whiskers was one of the early mast-failures, down-wind from Kingston Yacht Club to Wolfe Island, and there is evidence of (very well done) repairs to the starboard deck area, and the pulpit is a replacement. KYC used to have 100% "Med Moorings" where the boats went bow-in; I'd guess that this would have helped the original owners with getting on/off. (still about 40% of the boats are med-mooring. Yes, when I had a boat in the real Med, it was always stern too, never bow too... )

John NS26C 046 Bath, ON.

[Paul Miller]

I chose Mantus over Rocna after watching the videos. I agree the M2 would fit better but it came out after I bought mine. The reason I changed was that I was tired of dragging the CQR around to set it. In our anchorages we often don’t have room to do that. The Mantus, like yours, sticks like a dart where you drop it.

As for fit, the 35”Mantus chocks hard against the “bowsprit” and does not rattle at all like the CQR did resting on the roller.

In the picture the arrows show the contact points.

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[Mark Powers La Reina 26C Vancouver, B.C.]

John, a Rocna 10 kg fits on my bow roller nicely but I don't have the centre divider that you have. Don't know how that would play out. I think you need to walk around the marina and find the anchor you like. Give the owner a half sack of beer to convince him or her to let you try their anchor on your bow.  Make sure you have a safety lanyard on it before you slip it over the side.

Some reports suggest the Spade and Vulcan anchors work better than the anchors with roll bars.  In some situations the space between the flukes and roll bar can plug with mud and the weight will keep the anchor from rolling upright when it tries to reset.

Mark Powers

[Bath Water]

Hi John,

I bought a Rocna 15 late last fall......... B.O.A.T.

No word on it's efficiency yet as it's never touched water.

We'd just heard too many horror stories about our CQR dragging during the night....the CQR now our 2nd anchor for Bahamian mooring.

When you splash in this spring, you can wander over to Nauti Girl to covet it for an hour to see if it fits your set-up.

Cheers,

Mike and Ashley Read

NS 26C #120 Nauti Girl

Bath, Ont.

"Waiting for our swim platform"

[John Alexander Stewart]

Mike: Thank you! :-) 

John - the owner of the poor little Nonsuch 26 #046 adorned with a lowly CQR anchor at Bath, ON. 

[Paul Miller]

Mark, if you watch SV Panope’s videos you will see that he had that problem with Rocna but not with Mantus with its wider roll bar. In one of his Rocna sessions it set immediately on the first try but after breaking it out it repeatedly failed because of mud plugged in the roll bar.

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[Peter Grabow]

Hi John (and all other readers/participants of this thread),

Several seasons ago I upgraded from the original 25lb CQR to a Rocna Vulcan 15kg (33lbs) - the Vulcan doesn't have the roll-bar, but has an added weight on the underside of the plow to make sure it hits bottom in the proper orientation to dig in.

After doing my research I decided on the Rocna and they had recently brought the non-roll-bar model to market.  It had excellent reviews in many of the sailing journals.

My bowsprit has a similar 'U' to yours, though my anchor rollers are adjustable in height - for 'storage mode' I raised the port-side roller to the upper position which allows for the Rocna Vulcan to be snugged up to the underside of the bowsprit 'U' and secured to the Sampson post.

I am very happy with the Rocna Vulcan - it digs in quickly, bites hard, and stays put.  We have anchored in some heavy winds overnight several times (gusts around 35kts) and have had no issues.  Only once or twice did it not set on the first attempt (once in a harbor that had a seashell bottom, and the other time was in an area I had anchored several times previously) which I contribute to my being impatient, and not the anchor's fault.

I only have 30' of 5/16" G4 HT chain (the minimum recommended and may increase to 60'...) and 220' of 8 plait 5/8" line - this has worked very well for us to date.

If you zoom in on the photo, you should be able to see the Rocna Vulcan in place, though it is usually snugged up a bit more to keep it from clunking against the underside of the bowsprit

Peter Grabow

S/V CAKE WALK III

1987 30U 430

Jersey City, NJ

[Thor Powell]

Here's a picture of how the anchor is set up on our 26.  The chain runs from the windlass to a pad eye snap, then over a "shockle" bungie that keeps somee tension on the anchor so it's not clanging around.  Unfortunately the location of the mast means we only have a 1/4 throw on the lever, but it does not make that much of a difference.

[Steve Currier '86 N 36 #41 Caper TYC New London CT]

I'll add to the conversation on my setup, although you will need to adjust size to your vessel.  I own a 36, I have a Lewmar V2 vertical windlass, my bower consists of 200" of 3/8 chain and 100' of 5/8 3 strand nylon rode shackled to a 44# Spade which fits our paperclip style bowsprit perfectly.  I use 2, 1/2" nylon snubbers attached to the chain with a large soft shackle that I made up for this purpose as I am normally on all chain at anchor.  This setup has not dragged (yet) for me, with the weighted tip it sets very quickly and resets as quickly with 180 shift.  If there is a weakness to this setup it is in very soupy mud. So I keep a 37# Danforth HT rigged with 100' of 3/8 chain and 200' of 5/8 nylon rode mounted on my bow pulpit for this.  Although if the conditions allow by letting the spade settle for about 10 minutes before backing down the spade holds pretty well.  I carry a 60# Manson below (similar to the rockna with a roll bar) for very severe conditions but it is not rigged, nor have I needed to use it.

[Mark Powers La Reina 26C Vancouver, B.C.]

The video came out after I bought the Rocna. fortunately I have not run into that problem (yet).

Mark Powers

[Paul Miller]

FWIW here’s what seems to be a pretty well written anchor comparison.

https://refit.guide/anchor?fbclid=IwAR3SdincI0pGvxvYCijQy9kAVDnCn3hmwFRPfbX7hOLn5m-LZ0KDpIAnmPo

Paul M

NS30U #211, Sandpiper 

Cowichan Bay, B.C.

[Mark Powers La Reina 26C Vancouver, B.C.]

Here is an article that attempts to analyze anchor tests.

https://www.petersmith.net.nz/boat-anchors/independent-performance-testing.php

I can't tell if the report that Paul attached reviewed the Vulcan, Ultra and the Mantus 2 designs. In some tests the Vulcan is rated highly in others it did not preform as well. When the salesman told me he could give me a $400 discount on  an Ultra anchor I said too rich for my blood.

Mark Powers

[Mark Powers La Reina 26C Vancouver, B.C.]

When I attached the link to the article I had not realized that the author, Peter Smith was the designer of both thE Rocna and Vulcan anchors. A friend pointed it out to me off line. I think he did it off line to spare me some public embarrassment. Good of him to do so but a little public humble pie does me some good.

It is possible that Mr. Smith’s analysis of the methodology in some of the tests could have been influenced by the rating given to his designs.

Mark

[John Alexander Stewart]

Hi Mark - thanks for the admission - no problem in my books in admitting further info. It's another data point. 

For quite a while I did some supporting/testing/implementing work on technical standards, such as the original internet domain name server stuff,  W3C, and ISO graphics stuff. When someone says "Well, it's OBVIOUS that this is the way this should be done" my ears prick up, as more than once, what was "obviously" the correct way was because that's how they, or one of their employees coded something, and they did not want to spend the time fixing a glaring issue and hoped to sluff it off without any discussion.

I hear this on our national radio interviews - "... obviously, it's cheaper to grow fruit locally than shipping it from California..." when a local farmer at the local farmers market last summer said the opposite. Who to believe? The truth is , as is often the case, probably somewhere in the middle. 

So, thank you for the interesting link; keep them coming!

JohnS NS26C 046 procrastinating in Ottawa as the snow silently falls and the snow shovel beacons. 

 

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[Thor Powell]

Anchors are a great topic, no lack of opinions. The poor old much malined  CQR was the anchor of choice of  no less than Lin and Larry  Pardy and I suspect it had as much to do with their prodiguous skill as the anchor.....

But my Admiral recommends Bruce so you should all pay heed. 

[Mark Powers La Reina 26C Vancouver, B.C.]

When you listen to Thor’s Admiral, just remember thy use a 33 pound genuine Bruce, not a 20 pound Bruce Knockoff. The genuine Bruce is forged and the tips are much sharper than the tips of the cast knockoffs. The genuine Bruce is a good anchor but they have not been produced for years so are difficult to find. For a small fee I can direct you to one hanging on the bow of a 26 Nonsuch.

Mark Powers