Hub recommendations? SunXCD vs. Grand Bois vs. Velo Orange

[Marcus Helman]

I'm planning to build a set of vintage looking wheels.  I have decided on Grand Bois rims, but I could use some help on hubs.  I am leaning toward SunXCD, but I'm also considering Grand Bois and Velo Orange.  Does anyone have experience with, or recommendations for any of these?  I like the looks of the Grand Bois, with the round holes and the red dust caps, but I have found the SunXCD's for about $50 less.  Velo Orange components seem to have a bad reputation, but I would like to be open minded.  Is there anything else I should consider?

Best regards,

Marcus Helman

[Max]

On 650b, I've a GB rear; it's fine, but noisier than a Shimano. Also have a Specialized sealed bearing hub from the '90s... – very nice, classic look to it. Anyhow, unless you're running 11 sp, my advice would be to just find a pair of 8 or 9 sp Dura Ace hubs on eBay and call it a day. :-) 

- Max 

[Rich Mulvey]

Not on your list, but I have a Grand Cru Touring Hub on my 650B rear. I've put maybe 800 miles on it in the last two months, so while that's not even remotely close to long-term review, it seems very solid. I purchased it mainly for the ability to replace spokes on the road without a cassette tool/chain whip.

It's a very pretty hub. The only downside so far is that it's pretty darned noisy--you can definitely hear me coming. Like most things though, you cease to notice it pretty quickly.

- Rich

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[Brian Campbell]

Not meant to be sarcastic but I thought they were all made by the same manufacturer...so not a whole lot of difference IIRC.

[Joseph Kopera]

I have a VO Hi-Lo rear hub (which are currently on sale at VO) on my rear wheel that has about 1300 miles on it, thus far, and I have no complaints.  A good friend has about 4000 miles / 2 years on his with no complaints either-- to echo Rich above, it *is* noisy as hell, and one trick toward mitigating that, even though they say not to lubricate it, when you build up the wheel put a very light coating of light grease, or tri-flow, in there and it quiets it considerably (Just be careful to make sure the little springy-things don't gum-up).  I also really like the ability to field-service the hub w/ normal tools if need be.

VO does seem to have a bad reputation based on some reviews of earlier products. At this point I think it's a little undeserved given that they've fixed a lot of things, their target market, price-point, etc..., but I'll stay off of my soapbox on that front here. :-)

Cheers!

Joe

Western Massachusetts

On Tuesday, July 26, 2016 at 10:21:42 AM UTC-4, Marcus Helman wrote:

[desmond...@gmail.com]

50$ bucks less, really that's what your making your call on a set wheels that will last 10 years on.. Uumm .

Sent from my iPhone

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[Kieran J]

I briefly had a set of the Grand Bois high-flange hubs, and they were really, really nice. As others have mentioned, the freehub ratcheting sound IS loud. Personally, I would hesitate putting any oil in there but I know others have done so.

Lately, I've been putting a lot of miles on a Hope Mono RS rear hub on a different bike, which is also very noisy. I'm getting a bit tired of the racket, although I will say it is handy in an urban situation as it notifies people of your presence without having to ring a bell. Some slower cyclists actually veer out of your way when they hear you come up behind them ...

KJ

 

On Tuesday, July 26, 2016 at 10:21:42 AM UTC-4, Marcus Helman wrote:

[William Lindsay]

What are your other physical constraints?  100mm OLD QR I assume in front?  Non-dynamo?  120mm in back?  126mm?  130mm?  135mm?  something else?  Cassette or freewheel?  Campy/Shimano/SRAM?  

[desmond...@gmail.com]

" sell the house an buy Phill Woods:)

Sent from my iPhone

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[satanas]

Bill is right - more info would help, however I'm guessing the OP is looking for something high flange, so that rules out anything mainstream if a cassette is desired. If that's not the case I'd personally stick with Shimano since they are quiet and I've yet to break one in 34+ years.

I'd stay away from Dura-Ace though as they use different/rarer/more expensive freehub bodies. Nothing more recent will fit DA 7400 hubs, and 7700 onwards are Ti except for 7800 which were alu and aren't compatible with most cassettes. The hubs themselves are excellent, but spares are not cheap, assuming you can find any.

Later,
Stephen

[Steve Palincsar]

On 07/26/2016 11:49 AM, Brian Campbell wrote:
> Not meant to be sarcastic but I thought they were all made by the same
> manufacturer...so not a whole lot of difference IIRC.
>

I know nothing about the hubs in question, but I've seen the very same
sentiment expressed about tires: since Panaracer makes both the Pasela
and the Compass offerings, the tires must be the same. Well, I do know
something about the tires, and I can say for sure just because Panaracer
makes them both, and very possibly in the identical factory, that
doesn't mean the tires are the same or even all that similar.

[Robert Markwardt]

i've had the high flange VO wheels on my 77 Trek for a few years.  Many miles with zero issues.  I still like the skinny barrel of older campy style hubs (the VO's are a little plump in the middle), but the high flanges look good. 

On Tuesday, July 26, 2016 at 7:21:42 AM UTC-7, Marcus Helman wrote:

[Marcus Helman]

Let me be more specific:

High flange

100mm OLD QR front.  non dynamo

130mm OLD QR rear 9-speed Shimano

Frame of reference: I am coming to this from the vintage racing bike world.  My other two bikes ('74 Masi and '68 Cinelli) have Campagnolo hubs, freewheels and tubulars.

I am building up a new frame, but want to maintain the classic look.  I will use a mix of new and vintage parts.  I originally planned on 126mm 6 speed, but the builder recommends 130mm 9 speed.

Another question: when I ride with friends who have modern bikes, I am often struck by how loud their hubs are when they coast.  Is there a way to make a freehub quieter?  I have used Phil Tenacious Oil on freewheels with very satisfactory results.

Marcus Helman

[desmond...@gmail.com]

So you want modern as oppose to NOS? Correct.. But the style looks of old, yes. Think the compass hubs might be what your after .

Sent from my iPhone

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[Chris Cullum]

If you don't like loud freehubs look to Shimano. You won't get high flange of course but the 9 speed era road hubs are very classic in appearance, reliable and inexpensive. 105 5500, Ultegra 6600, and DA 7700 are all classy, silver with a slim middle section. They are well sealed and have easy to service loose bb bearings. The freehubs are very quiet. That era of hub takes 8/9/10 speed at 7 with a spacer.

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[William Lindsay]

Personally, I'd recommend NOS Dura Ace 7700 and drop the requirement of High Flange:

Example Ebay Link

I think those are classic enough looking and work great.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Chris Cullum]

On Jul 27, 2016 09:59, "William Lindsay" <tape...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Personally, I'd recommend NOS Dura Ace 7700 and drop the requirement of High Flange:
>
> Example Ebay Link
>
> I think those are classic enough looking and work great.  
>

Yes, those are nice. Also if 50g doesnt matter much 105 5500 or Ultegra 6600 is 99% as good (and good looking). The main difference being a titanium freehub body (that does notch more than steel) and slightly better bearing races and finish.

[Chris Cullum]

On Jul 27, 2016 10:06, "Chris Cullum" <cullum...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Jul 27, 2016 09:59, "William Lindsay" <tape...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Personally, I'd recommend NOS Dura Ace 7700 and drop the requirement of High Flange:
> >
> > Example Ebay Link
> >
> > I think those are classic enough looking and work great.  
> >
> Yes, those are nice. Also if 50g doesnt matter much 105 5500 or Ultegra 6600 is 99% as good (and good looking). The main difference being a titanium freehub body (that does notch more than steel) and slightly better bearing races and finish.
>

That should be Ultegra 6500 that has the narrow hub waist. 6600 is similar but with a thicker middle section that's less svelte and classic looking.

[William Lindsay]

No argument from me on the relative value of 6500 vs 7700.  I recommended 7700 based on the fact that the OP is already willing to pay $300 for a hubset (Grand Bois).  If his criteria included the best bang for the buck, I would absolutely drop to 6500 and I'd also consider used.  I imagine a used rear 6500 hub with skewer would run under $50.  A used front 6500 with skewer would probably be under $25.  Unbeatable value.  

[Kieran J]

Good advice re: the 9spd Shimano era stuff. 

I bought a set of NOS 6500 Ultegra hubs (in unopened boxes) from a listmember a few years ago and built them into wheels using some H+Son TB14 polished rims. Nice combo of modern functionality and classic appearance. I think I paid about $100 for the hubset.

KJ

[Kieran J]

Here's a set:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Shimano-ultegra-6500-hubset-9-speed-NEW-/182218326261?hash=item2a6d0f00f5:g:A-oAAOSwTZ1XlRiZ

KJ

[Marcus Helman]

I'm surprised that wanting quiet hubs is an unusual desire.  I have read in other forums about removing pawls, reducing the pressure of springs and greasing.  I guess I will try one of the three I mentioned, and see how bad it is

[Chris Cullum]

Yeah, me too. The quieter the better IMO.

[desmond...@gmail.com]

Does anyone recall the Suzie hubs?? Are they still around? ( new) .. Double check spelling, might be fun as well, classic look modern..( by the way I'm a fan of that as well, buy new when you can to support the guys who do this still).,

Sent from my iPhone

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[Stephen Poole]

Whatever you do, don't get a Chris King hub  if you want quiet! I rode near a guy with one for a while in PBP last year, and it was by far the noisiest hub I'd ever heard; I vowed never to own one, not that that was likely anyway.

BTW, there used to be high flange 600 EX hubs (5/6 speed only) but don't buy these - the freehub body was a loose press fit to the hub shell and unfixable play sometimes developed. This has never been an issue with Shimano hubs other than 600EX, and perhaps some of the even cheaper early hubs prior to AX.

Later,
Stephen (who likes quiet, reliable Shimano hubs)

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[Fred Blasdel]

On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 1:51 PM, <desmond...@gmail.com> wrote:

sell the house an buy Phil Woods:)

the Phil Wood cassette hub design is abysmally bad

It weighs literally twice as much as the equivalent White Industries, and costs twice as much too. Then for all that trouble the freehub pawl mechanism is unreliable and needs constant maintenance, with some people needing multiple warranty replacements.

[Joey Korkames]

Suzue Classica High Flange. I built up my rear with a cassette and it looks great with the vintage frame.

Pawls are crisp sounding (not CK loud) but I haven't put a lot of miles on it yet.

The aforementioned VO Touring hub gave me really good view of a snowy barnhouse once when my pawls locked open after a chilly rainstorm on 1200k brevet and would no longer engage when pedaling.

I don't trust VO for moving parts anymore since they do not back them up beyond pulling a replacement off the boat. 

[Andrew Fatseas]

It takes some mucking around but I like late model Shimano 600 hubs with the freewheel replaced with a more modern unit to accept 9 speed cassettes. They look great and well made. 

[Steven Frederick]

Now that you mention them, White Industries are pretty great hubs!
Loud-ish but not awful...

Steve

[Marcus Helman]

How do you put a cassette on a hub designed for a freewheel?

Marcus Helman

[Joe Bunik]

I presume Andrew means replacing the UG free*hub* body with a modern
(9sp) HG version. Even more slick for the older bikes is updating a UG
hub to a 7sp HG body, and running that as an 8-of-9-on-7
setup/spacing.

=- Joe Bunik
Walnut Creek CA

On 7/28/16, Marcus Helman <marcus...@gmail.com> wrote:
> How do you put a cassette on a hub designed for a freewheel?
>
> Marcus Helman
>
> On Thursday, July 28, 2016, Andrew Fatseas <andrew...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> It takes some mucking around but I like late model Shimano 600 hubs with
>> the freewheel replaced with a more modern unit to accept 9 speed
>> cassettes.
>> They look great and well made.
>>
>> On Wednesday, 27 July 2016, Marcus Helman <marcus...@gmail.com

[none]

I believe the Grand Bois are made by SunXCD. Very nice hubs. I used it with rear 120mm spacing to get that Maxicar look with a 6 speed cassette on an old frame.

Mike Kelly
Hayward, WI USA

[Jim Bronson]

I have to dissent to the 7700 D/A recommendation for a rear wheel - I
cracked the hub flange on mine climbing a steep hill, which lead to
the wheel unwinding underneath me and my butt on the ground. It was
under a lot of stress climbing that hill, which probably had a grade
in the upper teens,

At least, if you're a bigger rider like me. Ok, so I'm 6'7" 270ish.
Maybe if you weigh 170, it would be fine.

I never had any problems with 6500 though - I'd take the extra 50g, on
the D/A they must have machined it out of the hubshell to save weight
or something.

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[Jim Bronson]

I could care less if my hubs are noisy when they're freewheeling. I
want them to spin smooth (low drag), engage/disengage quickly, require
infrequent servicing, and have structural integrity. Looking pretty,
not weighing more than is necessary, and acquisition cost are
secondary factors.

I don't really care for my Chris King, but it's not because it's
noisy, it's because the transitions between pedaling and freewheeling
are slow and the chain often slaps the chainstay.

[Jim Bronson]

I doubt SunXCD makes any of their parts. Maybe they're Novatec hubs,
them or some other Taiwan maker, OEM branded for GB/SunXCD. OEM
specifies bearing quality and price accordingly.

[Andrew Fatseas]

Yes, as Joe clarified :)

[mitch....@gmail.com]

FYI, the Miche cassette hub is very quiet too. Approximately Shimano-level quiet and noticeably more quiet than the GranBois.

The Miche I built up is brushed silver with small red anodized end caps so it looks fine in a vintage build (like the GB it suggests MaxiCar with the rad trim, but the GB has a more violet red). Not high flange like the GB but looks comparably vintage next to it.

The Gran Bois is not that loud though-- not as loud as Campagnolo Record 10 era, and much less than famously loud hubs like Hugi.

--Mitch

[Mike Schiller]

I've used the Miche Racing Box hubs on 3 bikes, affordable, pretty quiet and a nice silver finish. The skewers are awful but are easily replaced and the freehub body is aluminum so I use cassettes with carriers to prevent galling.  The SRAM/shimaNo version is available only in the UK or Europe for some reason, but most online retailers over there have reasonable shipping charges to the US.

~mike

Carlsbad Ca

[Rick F]

Just noticed that Norther Cycles in PDX has a rear wheel built up with GB rim and SunXCD hub.  Currently marked down due to some scratches: http://www.northercycles.com/shop/grand-boise-650b-to-sun-xcd-rear-wheel

No affiliation other than I've been to the shop and corresponded with them.  Really nice helpful guys. 

I recently had a set of wheels built up with Pacenti PL23 rims and a WI T11 rear hub.  Very nice classic looking wheelset.  The WI hub is a little on the loud side but not awful. 

Rick in Bedford, MA

[Evan Baird]

I beleive they're both made my Novatec, who also makes the low end Taiwanese Suzue wheels. They're a decent value for the money.

[Jeffrey Kane]

Does anyone know the difference between the Miche Primato and Box Racing hubs? Wiggle sells them priced very closely but I can't tell if there's a build spec difference (other than the silver / black finish)?

http://www.wiggle.com/hubs/?ea=4294789738 

[Scott Stulken]

My MO is to buy used 7-speed Shimano freehubs for peanuts, clean and repack them really good, build them up, and then ride them happily forever.  So far, so good.  :^)

- Scott

On Tuesday, July 26, 2016 at 9:21:42 AM UTC-5, Marcus Helman wrote:

[Jim Bronson]

OMG you had to mention HuGi.

I had them on my Rivendell when I rode PBP 2007. The star ratchets
wore out about 10KM from the first control after an overnight
drenching - and they were only about a year old! I could not find
replacement parts on course, so I was forced to go with a cheap
replacement wheel we found, which in turn also failed due to the
inability to support my weight. After that I threw in the towel,
which I have regretted ever since.

I would not recommend that star ratchet design on the DT Swiss/Hugi to
anyone, they left me stranded twice. The other time I was out in the
sticks here in Texas, and had to hitchhike to get a ride back to my
car. Similarly it was after a drenching, so maybe it's something
about all the oil getting washed out of the ratchets which leads to
imminent failure? Who knows, I'm not going to try one again to find
out.

-Jim

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[desmond...@gmail.com]

The Phil woods while expensive, mine have over 20 thousand real miles ( not the fake Km stuff:) .. Fully loaded touring makes up a great part of that. Rivendell makes a fancy looking one the looks great of " Go fast road ( steel) road bikes . So strong it does add " felt" not measured .. Reduced flex to my frame set . Great choice ( aside from cost) but American made an better than buying " local made Cumbers " for nine dollars.,

Sent from my iPhone

[Igor Belopolsky]

I'm going to bump this up because I'm going to build up a wheelset in the 'near' future, maybe, but I want a light set, so I am not set on hubs or rims, but I was looking at the Grand Bois pricing direct from Japan, and it's not the worst pricing, $220 for a front and rear, depending on what shipping costs are, may be better to buy from Compass (but what I am looking at is not available/not in stock).

[Allan Desmond]

Phil wood.." same as above".. about pushing 30k real miles an very heavy touring an commuting..and ride quite an smooth..aside from cost (given how well an how long they last) fair price. do it.

On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 4:47 AM, Igor Belopolsky <belopol...@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm going to bump this up because I'm going to build up a wheelset in the 'near' future, maybe, but I want a light set, so I am not set on hubs or rims, but I was looking at the Grand Bois pricing direct from Japan, and it's not the worst pricing, $220 for a front and rear, depending on what shipping costs are, may be better to buy from Compass (but what I am looking at is not available/not in stock).

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Allan Desmond
Desmond Tactical
702.764.8656
desmond...@gmail.com

[Brad]

My suspicion is that you are comparing three marketing streams for the same hub, perhaps with different levels of polish.
You may want to add Simichrome Paste to your stash.
Or learn to accept that shiny on something soon to be muddy like lipstick on a pig.

On Wednesday, July 27, 2016 at 10:30:08 AM UTC-4, Marcus Helman wrote:

Let me be more specific:

High flange

100mm OLD QR front.  non dynamo

130mm OLD QR rear 9-speed Shimano

Frame of reference: I am coming to this from the vintage racing bike world.  My other two bikes ('74 Masi and '68 Cinelli) have Campagnolo hubs, freewheels and tubulars.

I am building up a new frame, but want to maintain the classic look.  I will use a mix of new and vintage parts.  I originally planned on 126mm 6 speed, but the builder recommends 130mm 9 speed.

Another question: when I ride with friends who have modern bikes, I am often struck by how loud their hubs are when they coast.  Is there a way to make a freehub quieter?  I have used Phil Tenacious Oil on freewheels with very satisfactory results.

Marcus Helman

On Tuesday, July 26, 2016 at 3:48:08 PM UTC-4, William Lindsay wrote:

What are your other physical constraints?  100mm OLD QR I assume in front?  Non-dynamo?  120mm in back?  126mm?  130mm?  135mm?  something else?  Cassette or freewheel?  Campy/Shimano/SRAM?  

[desmond...@gmail.com]

Oh just a style over substance hub thing- an very entry level ones at that-( given the ones you spoke of).. Just pull the trigger on any of them . I mean your not really restoring " real vintage" but you want the look but you want it quite but you want it 30$ cheaper than a new set of 105 Shimano-but you want in 9 speed not that new age 10 speed, but you don't want 5-6-7-8 speed. ... Something like that.

Sent from my iPhone

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[Evan Estern]

My daily ride is a 650b wheelset built around older, silver finish 9 speed Shimano 105 hubs.  They are smooth, silent and have been trouble free for around 10k miles.  I've heard that replacing the bearings makes them even smoother, but I have not felt the need to try that yet.  I also have a set of Dura-Ace 8 speed hubs that are a little prettier, lighter and even smoother.  Don't know the mileage, but I've been riding and rebuilding them for years.  For my next wheelset I will probably look for NOS 9 speed Dura-Ace mainly because they are beautifully polished and the logo will match my Dura-Ace derailleur.

[Mark Guglielmana]

I purchased a large flange Suzue rear hub from Norther Cycles recently.

On Wednesday, July 27, 2016 at 2:27:38 PM UTC-7, Allan Desmond wrote:

Does anyone recall the Suzie hubs?? Are they still around? ( new) .. Double check spelling, might be fun as well, classic look modern..( by the way I'm a fan of that as well, buy new when you can to support the guys who do this still).,

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 27, 2016, at 9:59, William Lindsay <tape...@gmail.com> wrote:

Personally, I'd recommend NOS Dura Ace 7700 and drop the requirement of High Flange:

Example Ebay Link

I think those are classic enough looking and work great.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

On Wednesday, July 27, 2016 at 7:30:08 AM UTC-7, Marcus Helman wrote:

Let me be more specific:

High flange

100mm OLD QR front.  non dynamo

130mm OLD QR rear 9-speed Shimano

Frame of reference: I am coming to this from the vintage racing bike world.  My other two bikes ('74 Masi and '68 Cinelli) have Campagnolo hubs, freewheels and tubulars.

I am building up a new frame, but want to maintain the classic look.  I will use a mix of new and vintage parts.  I originally planned on 126mm 6 speed, but the builder recommends 130mm 9 speed.

Another question: when I ride with friends who have modern bikes, I am often struck by how loud their hubs are when they coast.  Is there a way to make a freehub quieter?  I have used Phil Tenacious Oil on freewheels with very satisfactory results.

Marcus Helman

On Tuesday, July 26, 2016 at 3:48:08 PM UTC-4, William Lindsay wrote:

What are your other physical constraints?  100mm OLD QR I assume in front?  Non-dynamo?  120mm in back?  126mm?  130mm?  135mm?  something else?  Cassette or freewheel?  Campy/Shimano/SRAM?  

On Tuesday, July 26, 2016 at 7:21:42 AM UTC-7, Marcus Helman wrote:

I'm planning to build a set of vintage looking wheels.  I have decided on Grand Bois rims, but I could use some help on hubs.  I am leaning toward SunXCD, but I'm also considering Grand Bois and Velo Orange.  Does anyone have experience with, or recommendations for any of these?  I like the looks of the Grand Bois, with the round holes and the red dust caps, but I have found the SunXCD's for about $50 less.  Velo Orange components seem to have a bad reputation, but I would like to be open minded.  Is there anything else I should consider?

Best regards,

Marcus Helman

[Igor Belopolsky]

What did that run?