The Dangers of Islamophobia, By Toyin Falola
Adebayo Ajadi
https://heartofarts.org/the-dangers-of-islamophobia/
Oluwatoyin Adepoju
It would be great if those well informed about what is positive in Islam would also write on such a topic as ''The Dangers of Islamomania''.
A significant no of the negative images suffered by Muslims are generated by Muslims.
Islamic terrorism is the most globally visible face of Islam in this century.
What is the range of Muslim responses to this phenomenon?
Islamic identity and its ethnic affiliations with Fulani people has been heavily weaponized in Nigeria, from Boko Haram to the escalation of terorism from Miyetti Allah Fulani Sociocultural Organization and its Fulani militia in Buhari's tenure to the current impunity and operational freedom enjoyed by Fulani terrorists/kidnappers in the North, a situation that began to grow from the nation wide Miyetti Allah scourge in Buhari's time to coalescing in the North as other regions fought against this outrage.
Then Kaduna state governor El Rufai and the then Katsina state governor-both in Buhari's time-have identified these Northern terrorists who specialize in kidnapping as fellow Fulani, the Katsina governor doing this after trying to negotiate with them. El Rufioa describes them as former Fulani herdsmen. Sheikh Gumi seems to reinforce these descriptions through his first hand accounts of them.
What are the implications of these developments for Fulani/Islamic convergence, since the primary mode of Fulani consolidation in Nigeria is the jihad of Usman dan Fodio's conquest of the Hausa states, establishing both his own brand of Islam and a Fulani centred government?
The centuries ago Islamic conquest of Ilorin, an effort which tried to extend itself to the other Yoruba peoples until the Muslim jihadists were stopped at the Battle of Oshogbo, a conquest that till today sustains its political and religious hegemony, is vivified by the recent demonstration of the exportation to Yorubaland of the kind of exclusivist Islam associated with the Muslim North, in which the self righteousness of the Abrahamic religions at their worst is brought to bear in descriptions of the oldest religion of the Yorubas, Orisha spirituality and its Isese culture,its cosmology, practices, philosophies and arts constituting the central contribution of Yoruba people to civilization, represented by Africa's first Nobel Laureate outside the peace prize and the Ifa knowledge system, one of the few UNESCO Intangible Heritage forms in Nigeria, described as idolatory that has little place in Ilorin and must not be practised in public, in the same the same Yorubaland where the Orisha spirituality complex at Ikeja Under Bridge in Lagos, constituted by the Eshu, Aje and Egungun shrines are managed by a committee comprising both Yoruba Muslims and Orisha religionists, as I observed from my explorations there.
What are the implications of these contradictions between Ilorin Islam and perhaps the rest of Yorubaland, exemplified by the Ikeja example? What are the views of Muslims on these subjects?
Nigeria's Muslim North is known for extrajudicial and judicial disregrard of human life in the name of Islam, exemplified, among a good no of other examples, by a Sharia court condemning a man to death for supposedly praising an Islamic cleric above Muhammed and mob executions in the name of Islam, the muder of Deborah, for example, for supposedly insulting Muhammed, by her fellow university students and outsiders mobilized for that purpose receiving salutations from high ranking Muslims in the North.
With reference to Falola, specifically, to what degree have his writings contributed to a critical rather than a largely valoristic engagement with Islam?
I recall once trying to present a critical perspective on Muhamnmed on this group and Falola choosing not to post my piece for reasons which made me wonder if he was trying to defend an uncritical Islam, the bane of Islamic society, in my view, or trying to protect his image among his Muslim interactionists in the conservative Muslim North.
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Wale Ghazal
I hope you are well, sir.
I must begin by saying that I understand your concerns about the need for an open and critical discourse surrounding Islam, one that acknowledges both its positive aspects and the areas that warrant scrutiny and reform. TF's piece rightly highlights the dangers of Islamophobia – the irrational fear, hatred, and prejudice directed towards Muslims and their faith. This is a concerning phenomenon that has far-reaching consequences, both on an individual and societal level, as it perpetuates a cycle of mistrust, marginalization, and division.
However, you raise a valid point about the importance of also addressing "Islamomania" – the uncritical glorification or defense of Islam, which can hinder open discussions about the complexities and nuances within the Islamic faith and its diverse interpretations and practices. Additionally, I would like to say that your understanding about Islamomania is a bit derailed. It is essential to distinguish between Islam as a way of life (the true Islam as enjoined by Allah, the Prophet, and the Quran) and the concept of Islam as a tool used to perpetrate all sorts of actions, just as Christianity has been used to perpetrate various acts. There is also a need to distinguish between those who are merely labeled Muslims by name and those who genuinely embody the characteristics of a Muslim as prescribed by Allah. Islam emphatically asserts that no deed of a "Muslim" would be accepted until they can demonstrate good human relations. The fact that an Arab or a Northerner chooses to dress in a certain way does not necessarily make them the Muslim ascribed to by Allah, nor does it solely depend on their name selection or Arabic language proficiency.
Meanwhile, I agree that while it is crucial to combat Islamophobia and challenge the negative stereotypes and biases that plague Muslim communities, it is equally important to foster an environment where constructive criticism and discourse surrounding the various interpretations and applications of Islamic teachings can take place. This includes acknowledging and addressing the negative aspects or problematic practices that may exist within certain Muslim communities or groups, without painting the entire religion with a broad brush.
I might think that TF has maintained a diplomatic stance or perhaps a concern about fueling further polarization on this sensitive topic. However, as you rightly point out, an uncritical defense of Islam can be detrimental in itself, as it stifles the much-needed introspection and reform that could lead to a more enlightened and inclusive understanding of the faith. The true essence of Islam, as a religion that values knowledge, compassion, and justice, should be able to withstand critical analysis and open discourse. By embracing diverse perspectives and encouraging respectful dialogue, we can work towards a more nuanced understanding of the Islamic experience, acknowledging both its positive contributions and the areas that require improvement or reinterpretation.
Ultimately, the path forward lies in striking a balance – challenging Islamophobia while simultaneously fostering an environment that allows for constructive criticism and reform within Muslim communities.
'Wale
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Chidi Anthony Opara, FIIM, CDOA
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Oluwatoyin Adepoju
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Wale Ghazal
One could argue that historically, some of the worst violence and subjugation have been carried out by Christian crusaders, colonial empires, and even modern nations driven by secular ideologies - all in the name of conquest, racial supremacy or establishing geopolitical dominance. Yet we don't condemn entire religions or societies for the crimes of the few. Perhaps we need to look inwards - what specific actions or teachings, Islamic or otherwise, genuinely promote such hatred and division? More importantly, are we selectively criticizing Islam while turning a blind eye to greater modern-day injustices by those in positions of power and influence worldwide?
Better than making broad accusations of "irrational fear," it may be more productive to have an open dialogue - separating religious philosophies from human misinterpretations and abuses. With compassion and mutual understanding, we can address root causes of violence stemming from any ideology. I'm interested to learn more about which specific actions you had in mind that fuel your concerns about Islam. One would hope that academics and the largely based village of the literates would know better on how to put forward critical analysis before prejudice. Doesn't the world already have enough good thinkers and intellectuals, so why are we at such a juncture of bias and so many ill-presented assertions?
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cornelius...@gmail.com
Chidi Opara,
In the national interest, do you and Oluwatoyin Adepoju have any concrete suggestions when it comes to finding solutions to the crisis of Islamophobia in Nigeria ?
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Wale Ghazal
You raise thought-provoking questions about who can truly be considered a Muslim in light of the concerning actions carried out by extremist groups and certain communities. Let me start by saying that determining someone's faith is a highly personal and complex matter that cannot be reduced to simple judgments.'
The Quran explicitly states "Whoever kills a person...it is as though he has killed all mankind. And whoever saves a life, it is as though he had saved all mankind" (5:32). This underscores Islam's reverence for human life and its opposition to indiscriminate violence. Also, the Prophet Muhammad defined a Muslim as "one from whose tongue and hands others are safe." This highlights that practicing faith properly requires not just professing beliefs but embodying them through compassionate conduct towards all people.
So, on what grounds do we argue that groups like Boko Haram are not true Muslims? Because their actions directly contradict core Islamic principles of peace, justice, and sanctity of life. It would be akin to saying the Westboro Baptist Church represents true Christianity despite preaching hate opposite to Christ's teachings of love. When it comes to groups like Boko Haram, Al-Shabaab, etc. - their horrific acts of indiscriminate violence against civilians clearly violate Islam's core principles venerating the sanctity of human life, as outlined in the Quran. One could argue they have strayed so far from the righteous path that they cannot credibly be considered true adherents.
As per the Quran (49:14) and authentic Hadith, a true Muslim is one who wholeheartedly accepts the Shahadah (proclamation of faith), establishes regular prayer, pays obligatory charity, fasts during Ramadan, and intends to perform the Hajj pilgrimage at least once in their lifetime if financially/physically capable. Moreover, having sincere belief in the Oneness of God and the Prophethood of Muhammad (peace be upon him) are core prerequisites - all these on the high level is embodied to mean everything I have painted above.
Only the individual can truly assess whether they fulfill these spiritual and practical prerequisites outlined in the sacred texts and Prophetic traditions. Judging someone's heart and invalidating their professed identity is a weighty matter that should give us pause. What I can say is that Islam's universal message resonates with billions precisely because it espouses values like peace, justice, compassion and reverence for all human life. Any ideologies, communities or individuals whose actions grossly contradict these core principles cannot credibly be considered upholding its essence, regardless of outer associations or labels. I feel strong sympathy every time someone is a victim of such unethical, extremist killings.
Islam is a knowledge-based religion that actively encourages critical inquiry and understanding. However, there seems to be a proliferation of false claims and oversimplified narratives that have led many to be swayed from Islam's authentic teachings. It is indeed concerning how Muslim minorities continue to face unjust persecution and demonization in various parts of the world today. The unlawful killings, displacements, and wrongful invasions carried out by nations like the U.S., Israel, and some European allies against Muslim populations cannot be ignored. Similarly, the oppression faced by Muslim minorities in parts of Asia is a sobering reality. Yet, mainstream discourse often overlooks or downplays such grave injustices while disproportionately fixating on the reprehensible acts of fringe extremist groups like Boko Haram or Al-Shabaab, which do not credibly represent the faith. This double standard is hard to reconcile when the scale and impact of violence perpetrated by powerful state actors and their allies far outweighs that committed by such deviant outfits in the name of Islam.
One cannot help but wonder why the discussion consistently centers around condemning a few purported "Muslim" extremists, while the world remains conveniently silent about greater modern-day injustices carried out under the pretext of national interests, geopolitics, and ideological hegemony. Why are we always so quick to point accusing fingers at Muslims, while turning a blind eye to larger-scale atrocities? Introspection is needed on all sides to separate ideological misfit from the truth. Islam's core principles of peace, mercy, and human rights must be understood in their proper context, free from distortions and political machinations.
As for the Prophet Muhammad's conduct, while he did wage defensive battles, he also made the hugely progressive Charter of Medina enshrining rights of non-Muslim minorities. He exemplified tolerance, freeing slaves and rejecting tribal hostilities rampant across the then Arabia.
I don't claim to have all the answers, but I hope exploring this topic through the lens of Islam's own spiritual and ethical tenets provides a more grounded framework for understanding the complexities involved. As a knowledge-based religion, Islam encourages critical inquiry - one can easily be misguided if lacking proper education about its authenticated teachings from reliable sources. As always, I'm eager to gain more enlightened perspectives from you.
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Oluwatoyin Adepoju
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Wale Ghazal
The key question I'd like to pose back to you is - do we judge a religion's core spiritual philosophies by the flawed actions of those claiming to uphold it, often driven by political, ethnic, or economic motives rather than theological precepts? If so, pretty much every major belief system would be indicted. Rather than getting bogged down in historic whataboutisms, I think the more constructive path forward is to assess Islam based on its primary sacred sources and the example of its founding Prophet - both of which undeniably upheld revolutionary principles of justice, human rights, religious pluralism, and regulated warfare that were highly progressive for their era.
The real debate should be whether those ethical teachings are still relevant today and how they can be contextualized to address modern challenges like Islamophobia - a pertinent issue that impacts millions of Nigerian Muslims facing discrimination, prejudice, and violence due to misconceptions about their faith.
I would like to emphasize that this discussion is of no use if the important question raised by Oga Cornelius is not addressed. I'm keen to hear your concrete suggestions on promoting greater understanding and addressing this crisis in a multi-faith society like Nigeria. What positive steps can communities take to build bridges, combat hateful narratives and uphold the rights of all citizens regardless of religion? I want to emphatically state here that a larger proportion of Muslims do not meddle or accuse wrongly people of other faiths. Instead, we resort to the guided spiritual proclamation that we all return to the Almighty, and it is He alone who is in control of the Last Day. Then, what is it the Muslims have done?
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Oluwatoyin Adepoju
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cornelius...@gmail.com
Just laying a few cards on the table:
Unfortunately for all of us, we don’t have to go too far in search of ample grounds for Islamophobia, all we have to do is take a cursory look at the daily reports of atrocities filed and archived here :
https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
The evidence staring us in the face cannot be wished away, denied, or swept under the carpet, nor should we tolerate all the senseless, often politically motivated violence or hope to root out the violence without addressing the root causes such as poverty ( economic and social injustice etc) which the many many studies have pointed out are fertile breeding grounds for the recruitment of terrorists, armed ransom kidnappers, and bandits
Even then at the citizen street, church, mosque, and temple level, what’s needed on all sides is some basic tolerance. If that tolerance and understanding existed or was taught as part of our civic responsibility, then there wouldn't even have to be any need for a law that outlaws hate speech. And of course, hate speech would never be preached from the pulpits of those who feel that they are the better people, their God’s chosen people, ,their gentle Jesus people when in fact Jesus preached, “Love your enemies”. Hitler of course, wasn’t listening
According to Quran: 2: 62
“Lo! Those who believe (in that which is revealed unto thee, Muhammad), and those who are Jews, and Christians, and Sabaeans - whoever believeth in Allah and the Last Day and doeth right - surely their reward is with their Lord, and there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve.”
We have been here with this topic so many times before and Bishop Krister Stendahl’s three rules continue to be relevant 👍
(1) When trying to understand another religion, you should ask the adherents of that religion and not its enemies.
(2) Don't compare your best to their worst.
(3) Leave room for “holy envy.”
The fact is that in the Nigerian context the Christian fundamentalists (the Bible-thumping Pentecostal Pastors and their flocks, the Catholics, the various other denominations, cults and sects, our local cyberspace interlocutors in this place, people like Vincent Adepoju, Chidi Opara and his mostly non-Muslim Igbo folks among whom there are those who seriously contend that “the Igbos are one of the lost tribes of Israel”( Bing) ” the Igbos, one of the lost tribes of Israel” (Google) and true too “proverbs are the palm-oil with which words are eaten” so in this case there must be a lot of truth in the saying “ blood’s thicker than mud” - we either believe that or we take it with a pinch of salt and if we believe what they believe then we are to assume by self-definition / self-identification, in the international arena they must believe themselves to be in a natural, conscious or unconscious tribal ( genetically transmitted) alliance with the forces at war against Hamas, and of course in the national arena,100% against Boko Haram and allies.
According to Quran 5:82
“Thou wilt find the most vehement of mankind in hostility to those who believe (to be) the Jews and the idolaters. And thou wilt find the nearest of them in affection to those who believe (to be) those who say: Lo! We are Christians. That is because there are among them priests and monks, and because they are not proud.”
The main thing about Christian fundamentalism, and the root cause of their intolerance is that they believe themselves to have exclusive rights - in fact a monopoly on the means of salvation, all based on these two sentences of Acts 4:11-12 which they believe is the unadulterated word of God :
“Jesus is “ 'the stone you builders rejected, which has become the cornerstone. ' Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.”
And as far as they are concerned those who don’t say “ the blood of Jesus “ are going to burn in the lake of fire, eternally
If you’re sick and tired of listening to that kind of jazz, for a change here’s some civilised discussion about some non-judgemental approaches to finding out who we really are :
Sam Harris with Swami Sarvapriyananda
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Wale Ghazal
Smiles...wow, wow, wow!
From your last writing, you have practically given me reason to abandon this obviously unproductive conversation.
You have provided justification for me to believe that you never intended to gain any meaningful insights from this dialogue, especially with your parade of corrupted narratives and inaccurate historical representations above. At this juncture, I'd wish you seek your understanding from more reliable sources, not just regarding Islam but also concerning religion as a whole.
Stay well, Ọgá
'Wale
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Oluwatoyin Adepoju
The immediate action would have been to investigate online but there was a power outage and all my electronic systems were down.
With electricity back, I looked into Wikipedia on Muhammed, which confirmed the story.
Wikipedia is one of the most accurate and up to date information sources on Earth, a scholarly system sustained by various quality control measures. I concluded that I need not proceed further in my investigation.
I would be interested, though, in contrastive claims of how Islam was established in Mecca.
Islam is a religion of violence because its founder was a warrior who established the religion through warfare, and violence has been central to how the religion has been advanced after that foundational period.
Islam is also a religion of peace because aspects of Muhammed's thought promote peaceful co-existence and there is a strong current in Islam which moves away from tendencies to impose the religion on others but focuses on what has been called the greater jihad, the conquest of self in submission to Allah.
To claim these practices which have been strategic to these spiritualities are fringe, unrepresentative practices, is to live in denial of history.
As for the claim of ''millions of Nigerian Muslims facing discrimination, prejudice, and violence due to misconceptions about their faith'' I await confirmatory information.
The only oasis of Islamic intolerance in the SW is Ilorin, where the infiltration of the Usman dan Fodio brand of absolutist Islam through military conquest has led to Ilorin Muslims persecuting practitioners of Orisa spirituality, the ancestral religion of the Yorubas, the cosmology, philosophy, practices and arts of which are Yorubaland's greatest contribution to world civilization,its visual and verbal arts being among the greatest in the world, the most influential African religion in the diaspora and enabling the achievement of the first Nobel laurete for literature of African descent.
Is it in the Middle Belt, the hunting ground of the Fulani militia, sacking and massacring communities with the support of the Buhari govt in his 8 years in power?
I am interested in corroborations of the claims of Muslim persecution in these places, because I am convinced that the claim of ''millions of Nigerian Muslims facing discrimination, prejudice, and violence due to misconceptions about their faith'' is not factual.
A genocide is being commited against the Arab, Muslim population of Gaza by Israel with the help of the US and their Western allies.
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cornelius...@gmail.com
Dear Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju,
I’m not about to take refuge in the Gestalt Prayer.
To put you in a lighter mood, here’s some Mandinka Muslim music from Bamako, Mali:
Salif Keita : Dery (live) Dery ( studio)
You may complain like Tevia here or on this first day of Pesach continue to be patient like Iyov /Job. Please do as you please. You may go on, continue like a God-forsaken kafir and feel free to blame it all on Islam , and before you do that please take note that just like any other scriptures, Islam’s scriptures are also open to translation and interpretations, especially in the dialogue between orthodoxy and what’s sometimes deemed a blasphemy and heresy .
How do you deal with the loose cannon/ lone ranger /group defence / explanation/ justification /self-justification that begins with “ God told me to” - do it ?
Always God, never the devil, except every once in a little while it’s The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie, or The Devil and Miss Prym, or Netanyahu (the prince of holiness incarnate) and the IDF rabbis - and - as you know, in Nigeria it happens more than occasionally (more often than never) that a sweet Pentecostal sister knocks on your door and tells you that GOD sent her to you, for you to burst out in song, like Jon Hendricks, with I'll Bet You Thought I'd Never Find You , or Marvin Gaye with Heaven must have sent you from above , or better still “Have you ever been experienced?” (Jimi Hendrix with the question: Are you experienced ?
As a history student of the motivations and great battles of The Crusades and many other religious wars (make war, not love) how do you take on the task of apportioning blame? As you are well aware, the crusades are not all over, or yet over.
With what equilibrium and spirit of compassion do you read the genocidal passages in the Hebrew Bible?
What about “Gentle Jesus, meek and mild, look upon a little child, pity my simplicity, suffer me to come to thee.” - did he not say ( according to Matthew 10:34) “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword!”
If you should choose to continue this discussion, to begin with, just to clear the air, I’ll treat you to an interrogation of Christianity on terms very similar to those you want to use to crucify Islam, starting with a partial list of the Major philosophers before Jesus - and dispense with Jesus’s extraordinary merits which are beyond any controversy , merits such as his mother was a virgin, God was or is his father, and hence he is described by Christian scriptural authority as “ the only begotten son of the Father, begotten, not made “, his many miracles, turning water into wine, raising Lazarus from the dead , resurrecting from the crucifixion after spending three days in hell, ascending to heaven after 40 days, currently in Heaven, sitting at the right hand side of God and soon coming back to judge the living and the dead. I should hope that you and the lost tribes don't have any problem with any of that. I don’t have any problem with Christianity.
The way I see it: Insofar as this is not a one-to-one private discussion starring your sceptical, adversarial & Islamophobic self at loggerheads with Brother Wale Ghazal, I hope that you don’t see me as “butting in” and if you think so, if you think that freedom of speech is not an essential part of Human Rights in Islam, please disabuse yourself of such an idea, because Freedom to think and aql mentioned 77 times in the Quran ( Islam’s foundational scripture) is an essential part of Islam.
As to the required politeness required in civilised discussion / altercation,
Surah Al-'Ankabut Ayat 46 of the Quran states,
“ And argue not with the People of the Scripture unless it be in (a way) that is better, save with such of them as do wrong; and say: We believe in that which hath been revealed unto us and revealed unto you; our Allah and your Allah is One, and unto Him we surrender.”
I don’t know if you belong to “The People of The Book” or not , but be that as it may, a Muslim is supposed to discuss in a fair manner; Islam exhorts Muslims to discuss and debate using beautiful speech which means that on all sides - you and yours too, we ought to strive to avoid vituperative language. So, when referring to The Holy Quran you jive,” I would be shocked if the Koran is as blameless as you describe it”, just in case you didn’t know , that kind of speech is not respectful or helpful. You want to blame the Quran? The Holy Quran is “ blameworthy” ? Expecting a life-saving miracle, you are of course free - if the law permits it - to stand outside the main mosque in Sokoto or Kano holding up a placard declaring such a sacrilege, thereby declaring your eagerness to join the ranks of Deborah Samuel Yakubu - and in addition to that, to spend the rest of eternity in Jahannam…
I should hope that you understand my intention is to contribute to this discussion as a fair play representative, not an “ embodiment” or personification of the Islam that we’re supposed to be discussing, the one and only Islam that there is - in the spirit of “For peace you will find Into the steeple of beautiful people, where there's only one kind”
Brother Wale Ghazal’s decision “ to abandon this obviously unproductive conversation” tallies with the exact wording of a critical piece in S. Parvez Manzoor’s blog Islam and Liberty ; I notice that the blog site has been removed, but the words I’m referring to are to be found in one of his numerous essays on Modernity , on the general theme “The Conflict Between the Transcendence Affirming and the Transcendence Negating World Views” , a review which begins with the impossibility of any further discussion with your very tall order, your improbable propositions, blunders and misrepresentations of history as per you inane question “ With reference to Muhammad why did he have to subjugate the people of Mecca to his new religion?”
Who told you that the people of Mecca were “ subjugated” to “ his religion”?
# Check this out : The people of Mecca accept Islam
Oluwatoyin Adepoju
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cornelius...@gmail.com
Take it all in and check it all out in the spirit that it’s part of the freedom of speech which we all claim to espouse. I’d hate to have to take you off your high horse.
As Hamlet said to the corpse of Polonius, ” I took thee for thy better “
There’s also the old Hungarian-Jewish Jewish proverb that goes, “Approach a goat from the back, a horse from the front, and a stupid person from no direction whatsoever “
You pose no such dilemma to me, and I’m not about to humour a cosmic scholar like you any further, neither do I seek to lighten your burden, such as your having to do some of your research in the dark, due to lack of electricity in your corner of darkness in Nigeria, and, Islamically speaking, nor should a scholar - any kind of scholar , including a so-called scholar of Islam be approached anally, in this instance with the exception of the one you chose to cite : Maxime Rodinson - and of course you have approached him , as he should be approached: anally. Great Congratulations !
The other that should be approached from the rear is Ignác Goldziher - I’m thoroughly acquainted with both him and Maxime Rodinson , through the machinations of those who wanted to turn me away from investigating Islam any further.
To tell you the truth, the topic doesn’t interest me that much. For all I care, all the Islamophobes can go and drown in the nearest creek and my only reaction would be good riddance !
The world would be a better place without them.
Adepoju: This is what’s required of you and it’s not just your cerebral head and the screws that might be missing in it that’s at stake : No more vile calumny directed at Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala’s most beloved Prophet of Islam - a mercy to the worlds !
Taking the matter at hand - the threat Islamophobia in your country Nigeria, seriously, I drew your attention to what the Quran says about the parameters of discussion, little realising you’d refer to that as a “digression” : Surah Al-'Ankabut Ayat 46 , that aql mentioned 77 times in the Quran (Islam’s foundational scripture) is an essential part of Islam, and of course my friend S. Parvez Manzoor who, post-Rodinson and post 911 etc has been writing very engagingly about the Islamophobia issue - whereas your one and only point ad nauseam is that “Islam is to blame” - for Islamophobia. And what pray is to blame for antisemitism? Racism? Colonialism? Crass stupidity? And who are you to dictate to me what I should and should not do so that you “dont expend energy” - a five minute read, much shorter than my patient wading through your usual very abstruse, mystical & cosmological gobbledegook which is always infinitely longer and always arrives at some cosmic or comic black hole or no point at all. Please feel free to dialogue with yourself : to monologue - write an article on the subject.
It’s known as a Parthian shot : My digression ended with these two sentences which you are either ignoring or the great pretender that you are, you are pretending that you didn’t read , since they address the core of your absurdities in this your discussion with Wale Gazal :
“ Who told you that the people of Mecca were “ subjugated” to “ his religion”?
Nota bene : There are some things that I’m not inclined to discuss with just anybody, especially not with a fellow ignoramus. My advice to you is to check your sources , so that you don’t go around quoting Miller : Jesus never existed - as an authority on the subject just because you found him in Wikipedia or because he has a couple of God-given PHds in the subject, although he never met Jesus in person. By contrast, The Prophet of Islam , sallallahu alaihi wa salaam, lived in the full glare of history , we even know what he had for breakfast.
You could start here : https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Shia+websites
My own immediate background: During my period 1971 - 1981 in Sweden, I knew little about Christianity ( never set foot in a church ) and knew absolutely nothing about Islam. 1981 -1984 in Nigeria, almost got drowned in the baptismal waters in Umuahia. 1984 -2024 have been made painfully aware of Islamophobia In Europe which I imagine is a little different from the home- grown variety in Nigeria where centuries old Islam and Muslims live in the same space and coexist in a symbiotic relationship with the other Nigerian people practising other religions and ways of life.
Oluwatoyin Adepoju
cornelius...@gmail.com
Vincent Adepoju:
That which you were taught at your school may be true, that there’s nothing new under the sun, however, the only thing new that I have learned from your 546 word response is, as you would say “encapsulated” in this your one-liner:
“That Islam was established in Mecca through conquest is a basic fact ive long known since secondary school studies in religious knowledge and nothing ive learnt after has contradicted that.”
This gives me some insight as to where you're coming from. Fortunately or unfortunately for me, unlike all the other schools in that country, the secondary school that I attended ( The Prince of Wales) did not teach or offer “religious knowledge” as a subject, and this means that our young minds were not poisoned at that tender, impressionable age - as yours obviously was - brain-washed, polluted with the vile Christian and colonial missionary propaganda that Islam was spread by the sword . And it’s only your miseducation that which you believed you learned by rote back then , that you regurgitate and vomit here, that “ Islam was spread by the sword “
As you have revealed, this was taught to you, not in the history classroom, but as “religious knowledge”. Of course you were not there when it supposedly happened , just as you were not there for the alleged virgin birth, the water into wine miracle , the raising of Lazarus from the dead, the crucifixion, the resurrection and the ascension to Heaven.
As Mr. Dylan asks and answers, “You ever seen a ghost? No, but you've heard of them”
You should ask the good people of Indonesia how Islam came to their shores .
Maxime Rodinson the Marxist - along with Karl himself, should resurrect and spend more time on that interrogation.
Secondly, elementary epistemology dear Watson, - philosophy course 1 : For you to claim that you “know” something , that thing must be true.
Sometimes, your impatience is akin to that miscreant who had the impertinence to request that Hillel the Elder teach him the Torah whilst he was standing on one foot, we are to suppose, so that he could slip having to listen to the long story of the forty-year trek through the wilderness and all the stopovers, and as you “ know” , anticlimactically, due to a temporary fit of impetuosity with Moses himself never arriving at the Promised Land and sometime after his passing on to the Hereafter, it is recorded in the 6th book of the Hebrew Bible that his chosen successor Joshua achieved the Conquest of Canaan.
As in the good old days of our oral tradition, I have the mic now, it’s me that’s talking, it’s not going to be and has never been a filibuster, so hold your peace , try to continue to exercise some some sabr - that’s virtuous, and thank God that you don’t need a translator - as I suppose you normally do when catching a glimpse of what the Quran means, ” the Glorious Qur'an, that inimitable symphony, the very sounds of which move men to tears and ecstasy.”
If only you would read this short article “The Sword of Islam” , you would need to read no further.
The message to you dear Adepoju is that you’ve got a lot to unlearn. I’m the messenger.
Oluwatoyin Adepoju
cornelius...@gmail.com
How did you become Oluwatoyin Adepoju ?
Cornelius Hamelberg
You could study the history of Mecca, if you have the time
Once again :
“ Who told you that the people of Mecca were “ subjugated” to “ his religion”?
# Check this out : The people of Mecca accept Islam
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Oluwatoyin Adepoju
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cornelius...@gmail.com
Vincent Adepoju:
All the mistakes are mine, and I'm not going to read this over.
You sometimes sound as if you’re talking to a fellow idiot. I know that you believe yourself to be greatly learned, but please try to be a little more humble. You want to teach me how to ask my question and how to answer yours. If you’re not careful I’ll send Hamza, my grandson's friend from Egypt to discuss this kind of matter with you. I discussed such matters with Alims ( scholars) at al-Azhar during my last six weeks in Cairo, sat humbly at their feet, in 1991 - and not once was I given the kind of jazz now coming from your rear - and mind you, to date, the humblest person/ human being I have ever met is Abu Al Wafa Al Taftazani - the professor of Islamic Philosophy at Cairo University and I came to that conclusion during and after an hour long audience with him in his office and was initiated into the Rifai Order at the Al-Rifa'i Mosque in Cairo, that same Thursday…The same Cairo University, where USA’s President Barack Hussein Obama kick-started the Arab Spring with the greeting, assalamu alaikum.
It’s exactly as Abraham Lincoln said, “You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time”
In some neck of the woods, the problem is that Niggaz are scared of Revolution, and it's exactly as The Last Poets put it : “When the revolution comes Some of us will probably catch it on TV with chicken hanging from our mouths”
There’s a moment in history - an extended moment, a movement, a wave, you may call it a revolution - like the Haitian Revolution, like the American Revolution, like the French Revolution, like the Russian Revolution, like the Chinese Communist Revolution, like the Algerian Revolution , like The Islamic Revolution in Iran, a brand otherwise known as the Iranian Revolution
What was achieved in Mecca and is still on-going, down through the ages may be referred to as an ideological conquest.
Instead of doing something else right now, I’m going to “expend” some energy and some of my precious time writing this, to whoever is going to read it, with the understanding that (1) I’m only exercising a little my freedom here, and (2) I’m not Abu Hurairah or a paid praise singer, composer, portrait painter or poet for hire…
So, what do you have to say about Ojogbon’s “ Let there be light !”?
Coming from Ojogbon, first and foremost one intuits intellectual illumination, nothing as mundane as the everyday necessities such as clean pipe-born water etc that seems to be so woefully lacking for everyone, where you are.
Shouldn’t you be more concerned about that, since it most directly affects you? Shouldn't we be more concerned about that than about “Exploring Every Corner of The Cosmos in Search of Knowledge” ? Yeah, begin by digging deep where you’re standing, and you might be lucky to find some oil or diamonds. Of course, Bobby D did moan ( I Shall Be Free No. 10)
“Well, I don’t know, but I’ve been told
The streets in heaven are lined with gold
I ask you how things could get much worse
If the Russians happen to get up there first…”
BTW; Re - Alexander Pope’s Epitaph for your man, Sir Isaac Newton, 1735:
“Nature and Nature's laws lay hid in night:
God said, Let Newton be! and all was light.”
All was and is light except in the world’s second most religious country, Nigeria where you find many who are more Catholic than the Pope, more Muslims in Nigeria than in Saudi Arabia, and thanks to Al-Islam, there’s a lot of nur - the most essential kind of light there is
I understand that for you, on a daily basis - it has to be prophetic and that it must be difficult for you to predict the peripatetic, sometimes epileptic supply of the electric. I suppose that the safest kind of prophecy about the Naija electric , one that covers all future eventualities, is “encapsulated” in these four words : Never. Expect. Power. Always., during my time in Nigeria (1981 - 84) abbreviated as NEPA
I sympathise with you struggling to overcome some of the more than metaphorical darkness in Nigeria, and that we have to apply some reverse gear to the arrested development In your neck of the woods. Without modernity’s electric current, I wonder how AI is going to take over. Have your conversations with the trees thrown any futuristic light on this, or must we forever go on agonising about the current present and the past?
In the modern post- Kant, and post-Russell world (post the four horsemen Christopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, and Daniel Dennett etc) I suppose that this is the kind crap that should interest you :
What did Bertrand Russell Think About Buddhism and Christianity
More seriously :
Obdurate is the wrong word by which to describe you. As Lakunle the village school teacher put it to his Sidi, in Soyinka’s The Lion and the Jewel, “You are as stubborn as an illiterate goat.” Disabuse yourself of the idea that you are the lion or a lion - of the House of Judah or anywhere else, when you’re not even from Sierra Leone. The illiterate goat in question is the same goat referred to in that Hungarian-Jewish proverb, “Approach a goat from the back, a horse from the front, and a stupid person from no direction whatsoever”.
In case you don’t know it, abuse comes with the territory, in your case that of the arrogant interlocutor pursuing his mission with Gradgrindian grandeur or is it vigour - or is it rigour - talking down to his less intelligent earthlings. In his early days in his birthplace Mecca, in some quarters the Prophet of Islam sallallahu alaihi wa salaam - was the object of some abuse, and much ridicule, not least of all from Amr ibn Hisham ibn al-Mughira the so-called wisest man in Mecca at the time, and as the down-to-earth super-rationalist and sceptic that he was, responded thus to The Israʾ and Miʿraj : ”Muhammad , raise one leg, and now raise the other and keep both legs in the air - you see, you can’t, and yet you want us to believe that you could fly? ”
It was after that incident that he was given the nickname Abu Jahl ( “the father of ignorance”)
Jesus of Nazareth also suffered abuse - in his case and quite unlike the Prophet of Islam, who never claimed divinity, according to John 10:33, “ The Jews” picked up stones to stone him, saying “It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God.”
Then there’s all that nasty business of human sacrifice -this time it’s the theology of the cross -the kind of sacrifice that was thought to have been abolished by the event known as the Akedah
I wish that I had time for all the repetitive little tittle-tattle. What’s your point? You are sarcastic, ironic, iconoclastic and disrespectful towards Wale Gazal, who nevertheless - decent Muslim fellow that he is, takes it in his stride; you salute him as “the Islamic idealist” - as if he is divorced from reality and he is the one and only Muslim in the world who doesn’t know the meaning of the word “fitra” ! I suppose that your own version of idealism - not the Kantian version, of course not, is more along the lines of ahimsa - whilst you may be the vegetarian or Jain who disapproves of those who break eggs to make halal omelettes, or the kind of vegetarian who does not mind chopping off the heads of vegetables unlike e.g. deGrasse Tyson .
So how do you think that your universe came into existence ( another meaningless question?) According to the Quran, Allah ( God) said “ kun!” - and it was (just like Allah said “Let Newton be”, and always light ). According to our Hebrew scribes, the Almighty created everything through the 22 letters of the Hebrew alphabet ( if you believe that then Abraham Abulafia should interest you) for real Islamic cosmology you should listen to Seyyed Hossein Nasr - I once saluted him when he visited Dr. Javad Nurbakhsh in London) and according to some of your cosmic scientists, there was a big bang - violence on a cosmic scale - and you? A divine drop of semen, from your dad, I suppose, and you could please spare us the awesome rub-a-dub details about the virgin birth.
You’ve heard about the alleged rebellion in Heaven? Once upon a time, more violence up there. You’ve also heard about Cain, the Flood no doubt, the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah ,by the hand of the Almighty, just as you must have heard about The Ten Plagues
Your main beef is that that history records an event that Muslims worldwide know as the conquest of Mecca and your problem seems to be your idea that the Prophet of Islam was a fallible human being made in the image and likeness of Oluwatotyin Vincent Adepoju, when nothing could be further from the truth. As far as Islamic matters are concerned the Prophet of Islam sallallahu alayhi wa salaam was and is MASOOM.
Infallibility is one of his qualities
Now, please try to either get that into your head.
And if you can’t at least try to wrap that around your head ( like a turban
Plenty of resources here : https://www.al-islam.org/
Oluwatoyin Adepoju
Cornelius Hamelberg
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Wale Ghazal
Let me affirm by saying I am no historian, and I have been engaging you as a mere IT analyst, one who analyses very critically; I am also very much aware that one does not need to be called a scholar to grasp a basic learning of these things. Since you have been hovering about with what you believe and are not changeable by anyone regardless of your access to rich materials at this age and time, I can also confirm that you have deliberately evaded the required due diligence to go through those sources provided by Oga Cornelius. If you had, I am sure we wouldn't be here anymore, and you would have garnered a different stance about things. Please note that I have been asserting my authority on this topic, being a practicing Muslim, unlike the labeled ones.
By the way, do you agree with me that in many cases in Nigeria and from almost all instances, you know more about things you learned from school either at your early leaving from the school or long after you do? It's no magic but the simple reason that the Nigerian education system, especially the elementary, has propagated so much wrong information that the wrong one has automatically become the right one. Hence, as displayed in your writing about Islam, I would expect better from a scholar! It's glaring that your persistent claim that Islam was spread by the sword and that Prophet Muhammad subjugated the people of Mecca to his religion betrays a superficial understanding of Islamic history; the reality is far more nuanced. The early Muslim community in Mecca faced severe persecution for 13 years, with many Muslims tortured and killed for their beliefs. It was only after this prolonged oppression that the Prophet and his followers migrated to Medina, established the first Islamic state, and later returned to Mecca peacefully with an army of about 10,000 to prevent further hostilities. Are you saying you would do otherwise, given the same situation and circumstances? Could you have been wise enough to order that instead of shedding more blood, enemies would be granted forgiveness if they chose to appear and lay down their weapons?
Upon entering Mecca, the Prophet granted general amnesty to his former persecutors, displaying remarkable compassion and forgiveness. He did not force anyone to convert to Islam, as evident from the Charter of Medina, which guaranteed religious freedom for all communities. This treaty, considered a pioneering document of religious pluralism, demonstrates that forced conversions have no place in Islam (Quran 2:256). Your argument also ignores the fact that the vast majority of the Muslim world, from Indonesia to West Africa, embraced Islam through peaceful trade, missionary work, and cultural exchange, not military conquest. The works of historians like Marshall Hodgson and Jonathan Bloom provide ample evidence of this peaceful spread. Moreover, your comparison of Prophet Muhammad to figures like Aleister Crowley or Paul Twitchell is not only disrespectful but also logically fallacious. The Prophet's life, teachings, and impact on human civilization are extensively documented and stand in stark contrast to the unverified claims of mystics or cult leaders. Michael Hart, in his book "The 100: A Ranking of the Most Influential Persons in History," placed Muhammad as the most influential human being in history, acknowledging his profound impact as a religious, social, and political reformer. Are you saying you know better? Your suggestion that the Prophet's human limitations negate his spiritual authority is rooted in a flawed understanding of Islamic theology. Muslims believe in the Prophet's infallibility in conveying the divine message, not in his superhuman perfection. The Quran repeatedly affirms that Muhammad is a human being like others (18:110), and his humanity is seen as a testament to the power of divine guidance, not a weakness.
Lastly, your portrayal of Islam as inherently violent or oppressive to non-Muslims is not only inaccurate but dangerously misleading. It fuels the very Islamophobia that TF and others are trying to counter through informed, respectful dialogue. While no religious community is immune to extremism or abuse of power, it's intellectually dishonest to judge a faith of 1.8 billion adherents by the actions of a fringe minority. I grew to appreciate and understand Christianity and other religion beliefs better, not at my Christian primary and secondary schools. I had at instances stood against Muslim peddlers of misinformation like this at the MSSN during my uni-days at the University of Ibadan.
In the spirit of fostering greater understanding, I invite you to study Islam from authentic, scholarly sources rather than relying on orientalist tropes or cherry-picked historical incidents. Who relies on Wikipedia and absorbs its position with no objectivity? Oga, you really need to show some responsibility to approach complex issues with rigor, nuance, and empathy. Engaging in good faith discussions, acknowledging blind spots, and being open to alternative perspectives are hallmarks of intellectual integrity.
Ire oo!
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Folami Kolade
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Oluwatoyin Adepoju
Lets take your responses one by one.
I'm very interested in examining diverse views about this claim. Can you present authorities that reinforce your claim? I'm keen on reading them and establishing for myself as far as possible what really happened.
2. Islam has been spread both peacefully and by the sword.
Is that true or not?
Were the Fulani jihad or the Moorish conquest of Spain peaceful?
3. Muhammed can be compared with other spiritual figures because they embody similar patterns of spiritual growth, a point demonstrated in such accounts of comparative religion as Maurice Bucke's Cosmic Consciousness.
The fundamental pattern is that of intense spiritual hunger, leading to prolonged spiritual seeking, and possibly, to insight.
Also Muhammed is one of various spiritual figures who claim prophetic authority, at times, a summative authority.
I gave examples of other modern figures who did same. Whatever we may think about the validity of their claims or that of Muhammed does not negate the fact that such claims recur in the religious life, even though not all such claimants have the same influence on humanity.
4. I never suggested that Muhammad's human limitations negate his spiritual authority. I stated that his human limitations and spiritual authority constitute his totality as a human being.
5. Beautifully put: ''Muslims believe in the Prophet's infallibility in conveying the divine message, not in his superhuman perfection.The Quran repeatedly affirms that Muhammad is a human being like others (18:110), and his humanity is seen as a testament to the power of divine guidance, not a weakness.''
We diverge in the belief in perfection in conveying a divine message. The factuality of the existence of the divine remains open to question, in the first place, in my view. The idea that the human mind can transmit in its pure form a message from such an exalted intelligence, if such exists, looks unrealistic to me. How would you respond to the Satanic Verses incident in relation to that subject, Muhammed later repudiating some verses which were once part of his revelatory corpus, describing them as coming from Satan, the incident that inspired Rushdie's Satanic Verses? ( Wikipedia has a rich discussion of the subject, engaging centuries of scholarship on it.)
Also, various scriptures exist claiming divine inspiration. How does one assess their relative factuality?
6. I never described Islam as inherently violent. I stated that Islam is both a religion of violence and of peace.
I described it as a religion of violence bcs it was established in Mecca through conquest. I also described Islam as a religion of violence because it has been significantly spread through violence.
I gave examples of the Fulani jihad and the Moorish conquest of Spain. I also referenced Nigeria's Ilorin.
These are among the most strategic military, political and cultural achievements in Islamic history.
Why do you insist on continuing to refer to them as fringe occurrences?
One should be able to find more if one puts in effort.
Islam is also a religion of peace because a significant number of Muslims have chosen to concentrate in what is referred to as the greater jihad, the jihad of self conquest in submission to Allah.
Others are the Muslims of the SW, apart from the intolerance of Fulani jihad influenced Ilorin Islam, contrastive contexts I have currently referenced.
Others are represented by the great Ibn Arabi, celebrated for his
O Marvel! a garden amidst the flames.
My heart has become capable of every form:
it is a pasture for gazelles and a convent for Christian monks,
and a temple for idols and the pilgrim’s Kaa’ba,
and the tables of the Torah and the book of the Quran.
I follow the religion of Love: whatever way Love’s camels take,
that is my religion and my faith.
(From The Interpreter of Desires, quoted by Britishmisk in ''Reflections on Ibn Arabi'')
Ibn Arabi is described by some as one of the greatest and most sophisticated of religious thinkers and his Futuhat al Makkiyah, The Meccan Illuminations, as his greatest and most sophisticated work. I provide a very brief critical response to Eric Winkel's translation of the awesome first chapter of that work in ''The Discovery, the Discoverer and the Discovered : The Beauty of Islamic Mysticism in Ibn Arabi's Futuhat al Makkiyah, The Meccan Illuminations''.
Also among my humble contributions to Islamic discourse is ''Islamic Mysticism and Ibn Arabi in Relation to the Convergence of Cognitive Domains'', my very short Amazon review of Islamic Mystical Poetry: Sufi Verse from the Early Mystics to Rumi.
My ''Hijab Aesthetics and Mysticism'', maps a magnificent panoply of hijabi from around the world, in a broad range of contexts, from actual women to artistic depictions, in relation to the quest for intimacy of being or of perception, with ultimate reality.
I have also invoked Islam inspired theoretical structures in relation to developing ideas on transdisciplinarity, as I do in Imaginative Matrices and the Multifarious Universe of Knowledge: The Toyin Falola Cosmos and the Inspiration of Iya Lekuleja, the Magical Herbalist in relation to Dihlīz threshold of Al-Ghazali and Ebrahim Moosa, Laura Marks' Enfolding-Unfolding Aesthetics derived from Islmic thought and Bavine Nasser on Islamic architecture.
I compiled the very short dialogue ''Mysticisms in Dialogue : Islamic, Christian and Buddhist Mysticism in Dialogue through Words and Images''.
I have also discussed Islamic theology in relation to Islamic terrorism in ''Rethinking and Representing Islamic Theology in an Age of Violent Islamic Extremism'' and ''Boko Haram: Part 2: The Religious Imperative''.
If I were a Muslim, I might not be seen as doing badly in terms of explorations of various contexts of the spiritual culture to which I subscribe.
Great thanks
Wale,
Lets take your responses one by one.1. Can you provide references for this- ''the Prophet and his followers ... later returned to Mecca peacefully with an army of about 10,000 to prevent further hostilities.'' [ my emphasis]You are stating that he did not lay siege to Mecca as claimed by Maxine Rodinson in his biography of Muhammed but simply showed up at Mecca with a massive army purely for protection of himself and his followers and henceforth settled there peacefully, the Meccans eventually accepting his new religion to the point where it became dominant there?
I'm very interested in examining diverse views about this claim. Can you present authorities that reinforce your claim? I'm keen on reading them and establishing for myself as far as possible what really happened.Cornelius has not taken a stance as you have and has largely been providing links to searches, to the best of my knowledge, so please dont ask me to go to his posts for guidance.
2. Islam has been spread both peacefully and by the sword.
Is that true or not?
Were the Fulani jihad or the Moorish conquest of Spain peaceful?
3. Muhammed can be compared with other spiritual figures because they embody similar patterns of spiritual growth, a point demonstrated in such accounts of comparative religion as Maurice Bucke's Cosmic Consciousness.
The fundamental pattern is that of intense spiritual hunger, leading to prolonged spiritual seeking, and possibly, to insight.
Also Muhammed is one of various spiritual figures who claim prophetic authority, at times, a summative authority.
I gave examples of other modern figures who did same. Whatever we may think about the validity of their claims or that of Muhammed does not negate the fact that such claims recur in the religious life, even though not all such claimants have the same influence on humanity.
4. I never suggested that Muhammad's human limitations negate his spiritual authority. I stated that his human limitations and spiritual authority constitute his totality as a human being.
5. Beautifully put: ''Muslims believe in the Prophet's infallibility in conveying the divine message, not in his superhuman perfection.The Quran repeatedly affirms that Muhammad is a human being like others (18:110), and his humanity is seen as a testament to the power of divine guidance, not a weakness.''
We diverge in the belief in perfection in conveying a divine message. The factuality of the existence of the divine remains open to question, in the first place, in my view. The idea that the human mind can transmit in its pure form a message from such an exalted intelligence, if such exists, looks unrealistic to me. How would you respond to the Satanic Verses incident in relation to that subject, Muhammed later repudiating some verses which were once part of his revelatory corpus, describing them as coming from Satan, the incident that inspired Rushdie's Satanic Verses? ( Wikipedia has a rich discussion of the subject, engaging centuries of scholarship on it.)
Also, various scriptures exist claiming divine inspiration. How does one assess their relative factuality?
6. I never described Islam as inherently violent. I stated that Islam is both a religion of violence and of peace.
I described it as a religion of violence bcs it was established in Mecca through conquest. I also described Islam as a religion of violence because it has been significantly spread through violence.
I gave examples of the Fulani jihad and the Moorish conquest of Spain. I also referenced Nigeria's Ilorin.
These are among the most strategic military, political and cultural achievements in Islamic history.
Why do you insist on continuing to refer to them as fringe occurrences?
One should be able to find more if one puts in effort.
Islam is also a religion of peace because a significant number of Muslims have chosen to concentrate in what is referred to as the greater jihad, the jihad of self conquest in submission to Allah.One of such is my University of Benin teacher Abdul Rasheed Yesufu, about whom I have written a celebratory essay of some length.
Others are the Muslims of the SW, apart from the intolerance of Fulani jihad influenced Ilorin Islam, contrastive contexts I have currently referenced.
Others are represented by the great Ibn Arabi, celebrated for hisO Marvel! a garden amidst the flames.
My heart has become capable of every form:
it is a pasture for gazelles and a convent for Christian monks,
and a temple for idols and the pilgrim’s Kaa’ba,
and the tables of the Torah and the book of the Quran.
I follow the religion of Love: whatever way Love’s camels take,
that is my religion and my faith.(From The Interpreter of Desires, quoted by Britishmisk in ''Reflections on Ibn Arabi'')
Ibn Arabi is described by some as one of the greatest and most sophisticated of religious thinkers and his Futuhat al Makkiyah, The Meccan Illuminations, as his greatest and most sophisticated work. I provide a very brief critical response to Eric Winkel's translation of the awesome first chapter of that work in ''The Discovery, the Discoverer and the Discovered : The Beauty of Islamic Mysticism in Ibn Arabi's Futuhat al Makkiyah, The Meccan Illuminations''.
Also among my humble contributions to Islamic discourse is ''Islamic Mysticism and Ibn Arabi in Relation to the Convergence of Cognitive Domains'', my very short Amazon review of review of Islamic Mystical Poetry: Sufi Verse from the Early Mystics to Rumi.
My ''Hijab Aesthetics and Mysticism'', maps a magnificent panoply of hijabi from around the world, in a broad range of contexts, from actual women to artistic depictions, in relation to the quest for intimacy of being or of perception, with ultimate reality.
I have also invoked Islam inspired theoretical structures in relation to developing ideas on transdisciplinarity, as I do in Imaginative Matrices and the Multifarious Universe of Knowledge: The Toyin Falola Cosmos and the Inspiration of Iya Lekuleja, the Magical Herbalist in relation to Dihlīz threshold of Al-Ghazali and Ebrahim Moosa, Laura Marks' Enfolding-Unfolding Aesthetics derived from Islmic thought and Bavine Nasser on Islamic architecture.
I compiled the very short dialogue ''Mysticisms in Dialogue : Islamic, Christian and Buddhist Mysticism in Dialogue through Words and Images''.Among the more prominent Muslims in Nigeria are the Saraki family. My ongoing exploration of the beauty of Gbemi Saraki in terms of various aesthetic conceptions has so far been published as ''The Undeniable Allure of the Beautiful: The Beauty of Gbemi Saraki and the Challenges of Aesthetics'', Part 1(Blogger, Facebook), Part 2 ( Blogger, academia.edu, Facebook), Part 3 ( academia.edu). I even had a website for the project. I'm asking Wix, the hosting company, to let me know what has happened to the website.
I have also discussed Islamic theology in relation to Islamic terrorism in ''Rethinking and Representing Islamic Theology in an Age of Violent Islamic Extremism'' and ''Boko Haram: Part 2: The Religious Imperative''.In terms of spiritual practice, I have written about how I have adapted the Islamic call to prayer.
If I were a Muslim, I might not be seen as doing badly in terms of explorations of various contexts of the spiritual culture to which I subscribe.The range of ideas and references employed in my writings on Islam make it clear I am acquainted with sophisticated texts in the field. I chose to limit myself to Maxine Rodinson's biography of Muhammed and Wikipedia on how Mecca became Islmamic because I don't see this discussion as requiring anything more than such preliminary investigations. But since you insist otherwise, I would like to know your sources.
Great thankstoyin
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Oluwatoyin Adepoju
Lets take your responses one by one.
My heart has become capable of every form:
it is a pasture for gazelles and a convent for Christian monks,
and a temple for idols and the pilgrim’s Kaa’ba,
and the tables of the Torah and the book of the Quran.
I follow the religion of Love: whatever way Love’s camels take,
that is my religion and my faith.
(From The Interpreter of Desires, quoted by Britishmisk in ''Reflections on Ibn Arabi'')
Ibn Arabi is described by some as one of the greatest and most sophisticated of religious thinkers and his Futuhat al Makkiyah, The Meccan Illuminations, as his greatest and most sophisticated work. I provide a very brief critical response to Eric Winkel's translation of the awesome first chapter of that work in ''The Discovery, the Discoverer and the Discovered : The Beauty of Islamic Mysticism in Ibn Arabi's Futuhat al Makkiyah, The Meccan Illuminations''.
Also among my humble contributions to Islamic discourse is ''Islamic Mysticism and Ibn Arabi in Relation to the Convergence of Cognitive Domains'', my very short Amazon review of review of Islamic Mystical Poetry: Sufi Verse from the Early Mystics to Rumi.
My ''Hijab Aesthetics and Mysticism'', maps a magnificent panoply of hijabi from around the world, in a broad range of contexts, from actual women to artistic depictions, in relation to the quest for intimacy of being or of perception, with ultimate reality.
I have also invoked Islam inspired theoretical structures in relation to developing ideas on transdisciplinarity, as I do in Imaginative Matrices and the Multifarious Universe of Knowledge: The Toyin Falola Cosmos and the Inspiration of Iya Lekuleja, the Magical Herbalist in relation to Dihlīz threshold of Al-Ghazali and Ebrahim Moosa, Laura Marks' Enfolding-Unfolding Aesthetics derived from Islmic thought and Bavine Nasser on Islamic architecture.
I compiled the very short dialogue ''Mysticisms in Dialogue : Islamic, Christian and Buddhist Mysticism in Dialogue through Words and Images''.
I have also discussed Islamic theology in relation to Islamic terrorism in ''Rethinking and Representing Islamic Theology in an Age of Violent Islamic Extremism'' and ''Boko Haram: Part 2: The Religious Imperative''.
If I were a Muslim, I might not be seen as doing badly in terms of explorations of various contexts of the spiritual culture to which I subscribe.
Great thanks
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Toyin Falola
The opening sentences below insult a fellow human being and it is inappropriate.
Error! Filename not specified.
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Oluwatoyin Adepoju
Chidi Anthony Opara, FIIM, CDOA
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Chidi Anthony Opara, FIIM, CDOA
Always God, never the devil, except every once in a little while it’s The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie, or
As a history student of the motivations and great battles of
cornelius...@gmail.com
Chidi Opara,
May the Almighty save us all, from contempt.
I am quite capable of ignoring you and Adepoju,
you know. But what is thesis, without antithesis?
What is a female, without a male? Male+female=
spontaneous combustion= synthesis.
That's Poetry.
This idiot (Cornelius Ignoramus)
cut his teeth at a Literary and Debating Society
which does not absolve the likes of Al Ghazali
entitling his booky booky booky booky
“The Incoherence of the Philosophers”
BTW, I don’t like telling people what to do.
So, in lower six I turned in my prefect’s badge
after a week. As you may also know, common
knowledge is not so common,therefore the links
And, NB: much of what I read (Bible, Sam Harris etc) disagrees with me,
so how can you say, “It appears that Mazi Cornelius hates being disagreed with.”`?
Is that just another of your “ Thought for Today”?
Oluwatoyin Adepoju
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cornelius...@gmail.com
Hopefully, today’s Panel Discussion on Islam in Africa will at least partly address the issue of Islamophobia…
Discussing with someone who doesn’t know, is not the same as discussing with someone who knows. With the former, one has to resist the urge to teach (therefore the links / or footnotes) with the latter, it's always a pleasure to learn something.( We will be missing some of the intellectual discussions that Kenneth loved engineering between himself and Moses (Ochonu) in which it was always instructive and more enjoyable as an observer of a game of tennis, than as a participant)
When Adepoju mentions the likes of Dion Fortune, I often pray, may the Almighty save us all from contempt. Of course, when it comes to what may be regarded as a “Jewish perspective” I hold Bernard Lewis in high esteem, compared to some of the others, just as with regard to anti-imperialism I hold Bernard Porter in high regard and I’m always inclined to listen to him ( although when it comes to the the rise and decline of the British Empire, Africa is not his forte)
Over many years, I studied the history of Islam in the Middle East, North Africa, the Indian subcontinent, Iran, Afghanistan etc ( but not Africa south of the Sahara, including Sudan) so I know, I think I know, all about it. I had washed my hands off any further discussion of this matter of how Islam was finally established in the Hijaz, and I was sitting peacefully and peaceably in my corner in Stockholm, when my name surfaced in this discussion again: “Cornelius has not taken a stance as you have and has largely been providing links to searches, to the best of my knowledge, so please dont ask me to go to his posts for guidance.” ( That was my learned friend Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju speaking )
The reputation of Allah’s most beloved is being tarnished and “Cornelius has not taken a stance” ?
Peacefully, I could have continued to ignore Adepoju, but I have to clear my name, satisfy my conscience, and when it comes to defending the honour of Rasulullah, on Judgement Day, let it not be said that I just sat there listening to all kinds of nonsense being said about him, and did not come to his defence. His enemies will always argue, that I don’t have to do anything ,that the Almighty Himself is capable of defending His Prophet, speak less of His only begotten son at Calvary, His 1st and 2nd temples in Jerusalem, and his only chosen people, during the Holocaust.
So let's be clear. Let’s begin here :
It’s a milestone peace treaty that’s still often mentioned in diplomatic parlance and commentary when it comes to the Middle East politics of war and peace. Also often mentioned as a hopeful pointer/ harbinger of peaceful relations is the seminal democratic achievement that preceded it, namely The Charter of Medina, the constitution of history’s first Islamic state in this world, with the Prophet of Islam - peace be upon him , as its leader.
If we really want to talk about contradiction/s then let's be reasonable and try this for size.
Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju wasn’t there to personally witness or supervise the epic achievement being referred to as ”The Conquest of Makkah” - this link reviews Rodinson’s and Irving’s assessments of the event). Adepoju wasn’t there to personally witness, examine or verify the immaculate conception, the virgin birth, the feeding of the 5,000 people with five loaves of bread and two fishes, the alleged crucifixion, resurrection and ascension either, but what happened in Mecca is as clear as daylight., even if Adepoju is suffering from denialism.
Adepoju's main beef and bone of contention : He seems to think that peace be upon him, Prophet Muhammad returns to Mecca guns blazing like those of the IDF or is maybe unconsciously comparing what happened at Mecca with the siege of Gaza the past seventeen (17) years…
One gets the uncanny impression that Adepoju would have much preferred that the Prophet of Islam sallallahu alaihi wa salaam, had been someone like Mother Teresa - sweet & gentle soul, make no war, and make no love either, just practising charity and the art of gentle missionary persuasion in Calcutta…
On the surface, “conquest” is quite a misleading word here, as it surely implies to á lurid, already Islamophobic imagination, nothing less than a bloody, fratricidal battle - when it absolutely wasn’t anything like that - when in fact it was much less bloody than the contemporary reports that Adepoju is used to reading about as a “ bloodless coup”
At base here’s Shakespeare's Coriolanus remonstrating at his point of exile:
“Have the power still
To banish your defenders; till at length
Your ignorance, which finds not till it feels,
Making not reservation of yourselves,
Still your own foes, deliver you as most
Abated captives to some nation
That won you without blows!”
The difference between Coriolanus there and The Prophet of Islam is that The Prophet of Islam returns in triumph, acceptance and success, whilst Coriolanus dispatches himself to self-exile and an ignominious death due to an excess of pride…and ,honour yes, but pride -and excess of it known as kibr, has not place in Islamic ethics as I found out for the very first time, when I read Leopold Weiss’s The Road to Mecca - and not surprisingly, Leopold Weiss became Muhammad Asad and even translated the Quran …
Oluwatoyin Adepoju
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Oluwatoyin Adepoju
Could you please help us address the following questions emerging from Wale's stance which you seem to identify with-
Do you agree with that?
Why did he insist on returning to Mecca, hostile as the city was to him and his new religion?
Having arrived there and settling there, did he exist there as a private citizen, peacefully going about his business, sustaining his army to protect his religion from negative interference, while leaving the Meccans to go about their politics and religion as they saw fit?
Was it gifted to Islam in a wholly voluntary spirit by the Meccans?
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Cornelius Hamelberg
Chidi,
Both here and in the Hereafter, may we be on God’s side.
Did you hear what Mustapha Abdul-Hamid of Ghana said about Sierra Leone, in this evening's enlightening Panel Discussion on Islam in Africa ?
So you see, unlike your progressive poetic peoples party at the Owerri Motor Park, we the Saro people are not “one of the lost tribes of Israel '' nor do we suffer from any kind of religious bigotry.
If you see less of me in this kind of discussion it’s because of “(3) Avoid lies, backbiting, abusing and finding fault with other people and indulging in needless things and useless talk.”
In the meanwhile, Re - The answer to the question, Who is the greatest man that ever lived? - the correct answer : Muhammad Is The Greatest !
Normally, this should not cause any offence or ruffle any feathers but for the fact that we are all biased and (of course) some people who are more biased than others don’t like this, especially some of the little people who, either shuffering from delusions of grandeur ( self-aggrandisement) or from the other side of the coin ( inferiority or superiority complex) seriously believe that they are greater, braver, more pious, more holy (the holier-than-thou type) more educated, because know a little Latin, Greek, Big English, speak the language of the trees etc…
The subject at hand, the Mecca matter is covered here and we could take some time to check it out before rushing to press the reply button:
# Chapter 48: The Conquest of Makkah
# Understanding The Conquest Of Makkah
I take it for granted that you are familiar with the story of Korach's rebellion against Moses and the due punishment that the miscreants received
In this our real world - not the world of imaginary idealism there’s a judicious blend of divine morality in the service of realpolitik and justice considerations to be found under the heading Islam and realpolitik as a result of which we have George Bernard Shaw sounding off on Islam’s Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him : What George Bernard Shaw said about Prophet Muhammad :
“ I have always held the religion of Muhammad in high estimation because of its wonderful vitality. It is the only religion which appears to me to possess that assimilating capability to the changing phase of existence which can make itself appeal to every age. [1] The world must doubtless attach high value to the predictions of great men like me. I have prophesied about the faith of Muhammad that it would be acceptable to the Europe of tomorrow as it is beginning to be acceptable to the Europe of today. The medieval ecclesiastics, either through ignorance or bigotry, painted Muhammadanism in the darkest colours. They were in fact trained both to hate the man Muhammad and his religion. To them Muhammad was Anti-Christ. I have studied him — the wonderful man, and in my opinion far from being an Anti-Christ he must be called the Saviour of Humanity. I believe that if a man like him were to assume the dictatorship of the modern world he would succeed in solving its problems in a way that would bring it the much-needed peace and happiness. But to proceed, it was in the 19th century that honest thinkers like Carlyle, Goethe and Gibbon perceived intrinsic worth in the religion of Muhammad, and thus there was some change for the better in the European attitude towards Islam. [2] But the Europe of the present century is far advanced. It is beginning to be enamoured of the creed of Muhammad.”
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cornelius...@gmail.com
Oluwatoyin:
I have nothing to add to what I've already said.
My own patience has reasonable limits and that’s why I do not intend to indulge you any further. I have other matters to attend to, other -for me - more meaningful matters to attend to, such as to finish reading J.M.Coetzee’s The Pole and Other Stories. I also need to meditate circa four hours a day.
With all due respect, I think that you had better continue the discussion with people who are better equipped mentally, to continue with an intelligent discussion along whatever trajectory you may propose, may satisfy you. The Islamic links that I have forwarded so far, should be sufficient. Even if you had the light and the inclination, I doubt that you could possibly cover my reading list in the time you have available, so that’s a non-starter. When I met Abu Wafa ( in 1991) his first question was about distinguishing Shia from Sunni - before meeting him, I had gathered that he had marked Shia leanings / tendencies ( I wasn’t too humble, and I was being myself when I told him no worries, I know all about it and thanked God that we didn’t have to get bogged down in that kind of interminable tittle-tattle - so we proceeded to more germane matters . Incidentally that 1756 debate convened by Nader Shah in Baghdad - I think that I could have done better - and believe it or not it was the Shia representative’s opening remarks in that debate “Ali is to me as as Harun was to Musa” that led me to read the Torah more than twenty-five times - with commentaries etc and a lot of other communications, consultations, discussions that I can’t share with you and that you won’t find on the internet or at the synagogue library - to fully understand the relationship between Moses and Aaron. I suppose that you would like to indulge me in a debate about that too, with links not from Najaf but from Al-Qaeda. Then it would be a case of mistaken identity and if you were speaking Swedish, you would definitely be talking to the wrong neger.
What did Paul say in 1 Corinthians 13:11?
By all means go ahead with your discussion and hopefully it will make a difference without me in the way..
Other things to do : https://www.facebook.com/reel/2042929202745090
Oluwatoyin Adepoju
cornelius...@gmail.com
I was of course joking when I said that “ I suppose that you would like to indulge me in a debate about that too, with links not from Najaf but from Al-Qaeda.”
A major correction : In 1743, Nader Shah in an attempt to unify the convened a debate between Sunni and Shiʿi clerics in the city of Najaf, in Iraq. Abdullah b. Husayn al-Suwaydi, a Baghdadi cleric who attended the debate as a representative of the Ottoman governor of Iraq, documented the details of this dialogue in a treatise “On the Unity of Islamic Theological Schools.” A verbatim transcript of the debate ( translated into English) is available as '' Documents of the Right Word.”
As one of my Professors from Najaf told me , “ Shah Nader was an evil man .”
Infinitely more pleasant : Mozart - Piano Concerto No. 27 in B-flat major, K. 595 (Mitsuko Uchida)
cornelius...@gmail.com
Adepoju :
The beginning of wisdom is fear of Hashem
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjC7akZA180
Earlier on, just before the Akedah, I prayed this ritual prayer to He who hears prayer:
“May it be Your will, Hashem my God and the God of my forefathers, that You save us today and every day from those who are arrogant and from arrogance itself, from an evil man, from an evil companion, from an evil neighbour, from an evil mishap, from the destructive spiritual impediment Satan, from a harsh trial and from a harsh opponent, whether he is a member of the covenant or whether he is not a member of the covenant.”
I'm from the oral tradition; I prefer to talk on the phone.
I don’t know about you, but I have a wife, two daughters, a son, and three grandsons to consider and no time for delusions of grandeur with the idea that it’s part of you cultivating your public image in your duckpond or secular empire where a nondescript charlatan and coward can imagine that he can judge the Prophet of Islam, can judge Ali, the Lion of Allah and that when Cornelius says that he has chosen not to discuss such a matter any further, the human charlatan wants to ridicule him. Please feel free to go ahead. As Allah’s weakest slave, I do not feel challenged by you in any way - be it IFA-spiritual, Edo-cultural, Naija oil boom financial ( Allah is the rich and we are the poor), Big-Grammar 419-IQ intellectual, Duke Ellington musical, or anything else that’s in your upper mind. I don’t think that I am a worthy opponent for you to even waste any spittle on, so please go ahead with what you imagine to be metaphysical discourses about the Prophet of Islam’s military expedition and the Islamization of the Hijaz - or earlier on Moses's successor Joshua’s military incursions, and subjugation and Judaization of the lands that previously belonged to the Seven Canaanite nations.
Whilst your focus is on the Prophet of Islam’s so called conquest or restoration of Mecca and the Kaaba said to have been constructed by Abraham - to its original religion of Islam ( submission to Allah) - in my view a natural phenomenon and a historical fulfilment of prophecy - unlike you, I am less interested in the history of Mecca and of course more interested in the history of Jerusalem and its significance to the Jewish People.
in case you haven’t read it I recommend pages 70 -71 of Bernard Lewis : The Jews of Islam - an anecdote “ told by the great ninth -century historian Tabari, describing a visit by the Caliph Umar to the newly conquered city of Jerusalem” , which I talked about here - another link ( I’m busy with writing something much more spectacular - not erudite - and don’t have the time or the means to share Bernard Lewis otherwise - and by the way, the Judaica section of my personal library, what I refer to as my “holy of holies”, if you ever come to Stockholm where there is always light - (maybe to receive the Nobel Peace Prize?) I’ll show it to you and there too - a book, whatever volume of Torah , Talmud ,Quran cannot be judged by merely looking at its cover…
Oluwatoyin Adepoju
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Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin
To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
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cornelius...@gmail.com
Correction: Should read, “if you ever come to Stockholm where there is always light - (maybe after you receive the Nobel Peace Prize - in Oslo )...
Tomorrow is the last day of Pesach ( the Jewish Passover) and this suggests that once that’s over it could be business as usual in Gaza.
I imagine that in his dream of additional grandeur as a future President of Greater Nigeria, the Great Adepoju would either be staying neutral or - as the warrior scholar king would be leading by example, by sending an expeditionary force - brave man - with himself as commander-in-chief, to supplement the Hamas Resistance Forces with some of his awesome, anti-missionary and anti-imperialism Blackmagic