Drift Boat, Pontoon or Raft?

[Andrew R]

Hey All,

This post is a bit of a retread but just wanted to get people's advice.

I've been on a few drift boat trips now and have really come to enjoy the experience. I'd heard the adage before that the challenge of navigating a river in a drift boat can be as, if not more, fulfilling as actually fishing the same water, and I can definitely see why. With that said, it appears that the general wisdom for DC area floats is to go with a raft or pontoon. I plan to keep the boat out near Charlottesville and use it primarily for floating the Shenandoah for smallmouth and the Jackson for trout. I may bring it out here in the spring for a month and strap a 25-30hp to it for the shad run rather than get to fletcher's at 6:30 am for a boat, but it'd primarily be for fishing in western Va.

Reasons for a drift boat:

1) I would like a boat that can comfortably fit 4 guys. I play golf at a resort near Charlottesville alot (which is also the location where I would keep my boat) and would love to do one day on the water, the next day on the course. The rafts I've seen appear to only allow for two passengers and one guy working the oars. Sure, I could bring two friends everytime but golf and guys weekends are more fun with a full group.

2) While drift boats are obviously primarily meant for fishing, one that allows for a decent sized motor can also serve as a reason to hangout on the water and just crack a beer.

3) It's superficial and not the best reason, but I just like the look and feel of drift boats far more.

4) I don't plan on going on any kind of whitewater beyond class I (maybe class II but doubtful).

Reasons for a cataraft or pontoon:

1) Safety. If I ram into a sharp rock on the upper Potomac, a raft is better equipped to not hurl me and my passengers headfirst into the water.

2) Versatility. It appears that rafts afford access to more water and can float in really low flows, like the Shenandoah in late summer.

3) Cost. While I've found some used drift boats for <4k, rafts appear to be more reasonably priced.

All of the above information was just gleaned from conversations with proponents of one style or the other, as well as online research. So if I'm off, definitely let me know.

I'm primarily interested in the so called "power drifters", especially the Stealthcraft ATB. I rowed one a few weeks ago in UP Michigan and had a blast. Love the versatility of the easily removable engine and the boat maneuvered really well for a hybrid. Not looking to break the bank (I know Boat stands for "break out another thousand"), so probably gonna buy used, either way I go.

[Charlie Church]

I can offer pros/cons for owning a raft. I bought a used NRS Otter 13.5 with a fishing frame last year. So far I have logged 18 trips on it and honestly everyone of them has been a blast. Having the ability to take people out fishing with you is pretty awesome. Prior to buying a raft, I did the kayak thing for a long time which also is great but definitely made it harder for me to take out less experienced people.

Pros:
1. You have the potential to get into a lot of fish in them (or put people into a lot of fish).
2. You can fish comfortably while standing. 
3. Not too bad to drag if you bottom out which will happen in the summer on some stretches. 
4. Safely fish year round with proper gear / flows. You could do this with a kayak too but IMO, it's a lot nicer in a raft/boat.
5. Interested in taking your mom/grandmother out smallie fishing? It's a lot easier to be in a raft than a kayak/canoe.

Cons: 
1. Shuttling sucks

[Misha Gill]

Sorry to be a debbie downer, but I think the scale of your ambition here is a little over the top. 4 guys in a boat is a lot of weight. If you take that boat out on a lot of smallmouth rivers, you will be dragging big time in places and risking your hull's integrity. For instance, on the Susquehanna, guys don't like taking their jet boats out unless the water is over 4' at the Harrisburg gauge. The only guys that do take people out in lower water conditions are guides who know a particular river beat inside and out. Also consider that 4 dudes in a boat would make a lot of noise... Basically, to sum up, I would only plan on fitting 3 people max into a boat, and more commonly expect to have 2. 

If you have any questions about the Sea Eagle FoldCat let me know. 

[Rob Snowhite]

ATB is not rock friendly. I dont take mine anywhere where rocks stick out of the water. Mostly lakes and tidal estuaries. 

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[Andrew R]

Alas big dreams die hard. Definitely would appear that a cataraft is the way to go, even out in Va. Thanks guys for the feedback, probably for the best to have put the drift boat dream to sleep before dropping some hard earned dough.

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[TurbineBlade]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again - canoe, canoe, canoe, especially if your primary ambition is floating rocky rivers for smallmouth.  It's a no-brainer for that.  

Kayaks, paddle boards, toons, etc. seem to have displaced canoes for reasons that make no sense.  A good canoe will weight a lot less than a kayak of comparable length, will handle total neglect in terms of dragging and bashing it into things (royalex or 3-layer poly -- by far the most common materials now), and allows for comfortable sitting and standing for fly casting.  With a hollow "shell", the sucker makes a huge stripping basket for fly line too.  

They're also easy to strap to most vehicles and require a trailer.   

They also easily hold a cooler full of beer or whatever in the middle.  

I cannot stress enough how much kayaks thoroughly suck -- unless you like sitting in a cool puddle of your own mess all the time.  The fishing ones are heavy as hell for their length and generally are rigged with fly line traps all over, and don't offer any benefit over a canoe.  

Canoes seem to have become "uncool" somehow, even though kayaks are heavy, uncomfortable pieces of absolute crap for 99% of a FW fly fisherman's needs.  

You want a minimum 15' for 2 people.  Fishing with 4 guys sounds like you might as well not even be fishing man.  You want a boat that can't hold many people so they can't join you and scare all the fish and annoy the crap out of you.  

The above is 100% correct, and I will not entertain or place any value upon anyone's competing opinion about it -- 

Gene

[TurbineBlade]

Misha -- I've not used toons, but I would have to guess that wind blows those things around like crazy.  Is that the case?  I've mostly avoided them due to cumbersome transportation.  

Note -- I own 2 kayaks and 1 canoe and am being 1/2 un-serious about kayaks.  Anything that puts you on the water is a lot better than nothing ;).  

The perfect craft for Beth and I would be a flat bottom, high primary stability (don't care a thing about secondary stability for the fishing we do), canoe made from kevlar that is light enough that I never think twice about truck topping it.  For lakes, ponds, and other tidal areas that would be supreme.  

For fast current and rocks, not so much -- royalex would be better.  \

Gene

[bryan....@gmail.com]

Given that you won't tolerate differing opinions, I will agree. A canoe is perfect for two people. You can even throw in a dog. 

However, if it's just me I'll take out my sit-in kayak. Much more maneuverable than a canoe. Got it rigged with an anchor trolley and rod holder.  Add a bag with fishing stuff,  a granola bar and water and you've got all you need. 

 Bryan

Bryan 

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[Jeff Cook]

I'm looking at a hybrid, Nucanoe Frontier 12. Other than the high price tag, anybody have good or bad experience?

http://www.nucanoe.com/nucanoe-frontier/

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[arthur noglak]

Anyone have any experience with inflatable kayaks?

Art

[Jeff Cook]

Art, here are my December comments about the Advanced Elements Straightedge Angler inflatables which I decided to sell. I'm now shopping for a stable kayak or compact kayak/canoe hybrid like a Nucanoe...

------
I had two (inflatables Straightedge Anglers), and they are generally wonderful. I never fished in them, only light recreation. You've got five bladders to hand pump, making sure not to overinflate. Cool water will make it shrink, but do you overinflate before you launch or top it off mid-trip. Obviously avoid any rocks at any time, which is more of an issue than I had hoped.

Packing up is a bit more athletic. You reverse the pump so it sucks the air out, and then fold it as squarely and flat as you can to cram it back into the large suitcase shaped bag. Athletic. I carried the seat parts separately as I could never fit them back in.

You must be extremely vigilant about drying it out to avoid black mold and corrosion of the steel fittings, and this is not easy. With all the creases and corners it simply will never dry out on its own, you must use sponges/towels and make a project of it, at least when you get home. If not, you'll start noticing pretty quickly.

But they are soooo comfy. It's basically a giant shock absorber, so it handles ripples and waves very well. I would take a rest, unclip the seat back, lie back on the rear airbag like a pillow and just rock on the waves. Wonderful. You can get a small anchor as well.

I just sold two of them (and cheap - sorry, no for-sale ads on this list), and I think if I buy another kayak it would instead be a simpler hard shell. The reason for an inflatable is if you simply have no way to transport a hard shell. Inflatables need more work and maintenance, and eventually repair.
------

> On Apr 19, 2016, at 9:34 PM, arthur noglak <arthur...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Anyone have any experience with inflatable kayaks?
>
> Art
>

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[Nick F - Gaucho Fly]

Nucanoes are great. I went through the same brain damage as all above before deciding on the nucanoe. I think for two people a canoe is great but for solo missions the nucanoe excels. Stand up stability, great maneuverability and can out a motor on it if you choose.

A bit heavy but quite manageable with the rear wheel attachment and easy to throw on a roof rack without much hassle.

[TurbineBlade]

I also have two strait edge angler (inflatable kayaks) and everything Jeff said is correct.  I recommend you NOT add accessories to them via the separate bar (like rod holders, fish finder), and also remove the velcro straps on the left-hand side if you are right-handed (and vice-versa).  Accessories are for spin fishing and for looking "pretty cool" on google pictures -- they are not for fly fishing.   

And no dogs -- there is no such thing as a "good fishing dog".  A 300gr integrated shooting head WILL cast a yorkie along with your fly if he's tangled in the running line.   

It's hard to make out in the pic above, but if there are any of these things on it -- 

Get rid of it immediately.  Sometimes those are added to fly fishing vests or packs, and they instantly let you know that no consideration was made to fly fishermen when the product was designed.  

BTW if we are talking 1-person rigs now, I'd take a solo canoe in the 12' length over ANY kayak for all of the same reasons already stated.  

 

See that?  It's 1/2 as heavy as a kayak in the same length and is almost totally empty -- perfect stripping basket.  Put 2 foam noodles under each end, flip it upside down, learn a trucker's hitch, and it's on your vehicle ready to go.  

Don't be young and stupid people -- Okay, I'm done.  

Gene

[TurbineBlade]

Hey, y'all know where you can get some tang around here?  Warm, good tang?  Remember how that stuff was all the rage back in like 1989?  What's the deal?  

Gene

[arthur...@gmail.com]

Back in the day I used to have this old aluminum michicraft canoe that I would strap to the top of my Astro Van. That thing weighed a ton. The back was squared off so I would put a motor on it and troll around the Lake Erie shore line for smallmouth. Back in 2010 I gave it to buddy's wife to use as a garden box ha ha. Water crafts have come along way since then.

Art

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> On Apr 19, 2016, at 11:25 PM, Nick F - Gaucho Fly <nfran...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Nucanoes are great. I went through the same brain damage as all above before deciding on the nucanoe. I think for two people a canoe is great but for solo missions the nucanoe excels. Stand up stability, great maneuverability and can out a motor on it if you choose.
>
> A bit heavy but quite manageable with the rear wheel attachment and easy to throw on a roof rack without much hassle.
>

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[D. Walker]

I have a kayak, got it for fishing solo in big water and small creeks, transportation and storage. I think tracks better than the solo canoe.

I agree with gene that canoes are great, we have an old town guide. The ease of casting cause youre higher off the water is great but I prefer my kayak. I never get wet in my sit on top if im in smooth water, more so if I take it on the bay ill get wet.

everyone has their preferences and they all have their advantages and disadvantages.

I should purchase a drift boat, skiff, kayak and off shore rig and I could do it all haha

On Wednesday, April 20, 2016 at 5:57:21 AM UTC-4, arthur noglak wrote:

Back in the day I used to have this old aluminum michicraft canoe that I would strap to the top of my Astro Van. That thing weighed a ton. The back was squared off so I would put a motor on it and troll around the Lake Erie shore line for smallmouth. Back in 2010 I gave it to buddy's wife to use as a garden box ha ha. Water crafts have come along way since then.

Art

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 19, 2016, at 11:25 PM, Nick F - Gaucho Fly <nfran...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Nucanoes are great. I went through the same brain damage as all above before deciding on the nucanoe. I think for two people a canoe is great but for solo missions the nucanoe excels.  Stand up stability, great maneuverability and can out a motor on it if you choose.
>
> A bit heavy but quite manageable with the rear wheel attachment and easy to throw on a roof rack without much hassle.
>
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> http://www.tpfr.org
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> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders" group.

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[namfos]

Gene, it's like you're channeling this book,

 ;-)

Here's my watercraft, it's practically a canoe. Tips the scales at ~50 lbs - light enough that this old git can get it on the roof of his RAV4.

I guess I was overthinking it when I bought it. ;-)

On Tuesday, April 19, 2016 at 5:41:27 PM UTC-4, TurbineBlade wrote:

[namfos]

I drove a Nucanoe at Appomattox River Company's Demo Day last June - I liked the NuCanoes - hell, I liked all the kayaks I drove: Jackson, Native, Wilderness Systems, Hobie, NuCanoe, Old Town, yada yada. I went with a used Ultimate a month later, largely because the seat is comfy, it's up off the bottom of the boat (dry butt, a +) and because 50 lbs is light enough to for this older gent to get it on top the car single handed. I highly recommend the demo day if you're shopping for a boat. http://www.paddleva.com/big-demo-day-2016-appomattox-river-company/

Mark

[Misha Gill]

Gene, yes, the Sea Eagle Foldcat I have does get blown around a lot by the wind. As does the inflatable kayak I own, Art. Nevertheless, I think they are superior options because the wind is the biggest downside, followed by set up time, whereas the real advantage is in their ease of storage. My Foldcat reduces down to a small enough size to fit in the back of my Mazda3 with the seat folded down, which is a midsize non-hatchback sedan. And it doesn't take up all that much room in the basement of my good friend who is graciously storing it for me. As for the kayak, it deflates so small i can just keep it in my trunk for long periods of time because it lies virtually flat. The stuff in the kayak setup that takes up more room is the paddle. 

Plus, once it's all setup, the foldcat is stable enough for two guys to stand up and fish. And it has bass boat seats that swivel around 360 degrees. So it's a pretty sweet little vessel to have in my fleet.

Personally, I don't fly fish out of kayaks anymore. The nucanoe looks like it would be an exception, though. The major problem is that the line bunches up in your lap and gets caught on things. I'll use the kayak as transportation or if I'm spin fishing, but its just too much of a pain to fly fish and navigate in it. 

[Joe Mathews]

Aire inflatable kayaks are great (PVC outer shell with urethane bladders).  I run a 15' Aire Traveler inflatable canoe with an oar frame; it's a great little boat for 2 people.

[cagl...@gmail.com]

Boulder boatworks makes a high density poly driftboat that can take rock strikes. It is a traditional design so is not rated for high hp motors but you can run a 2 to 5 hp.   Butch Murphy guides out of one and I think Matt Miles may drive one as well. 

Charlie

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<aire_south_fork_shenandoah.jpg>

[Connor Donovan]

JT - That aire canoe looks awesome.  That's a cool mini frame, did you DIY that?  I'm really, really digging it. 

On Wednesday, April 20, 2016 at 7:18:19 PM UTC-4, cg wrote:

Boulder boatworks makes a high density poly driftboat that can take rock strikes. It is a traditional design so is not rated for high hp motors but you can run a 2 to 5 hp.   Butch Murphy guides out of one and I think Matt Miles may drive one as well. 

Charlie

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 20, 2016, at 7:00 PM, Joe Mathews <joseph.t...@gmail.com> wrote:

Aire inflatable kayaks are great (PVC outer shell with urethane bladders).  I run a 15' Aire Traveler inflatable canoe with an oar frame; it's a great little boat for 2 people.

On Tuesday, April 19, 2016 at 9:34:53 PM UTC-4, arthur noglak wrote:

Anyone have any experience with inflatable kayaks?

Art

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[andrewm...@gmail.com]

Raft. But make sure it is a good brand, aka NRS or AIRE. Don't be fooled into the cheap raft you cannot stand in. I suggest a self bailer. I have a Baby Otter bucket boat, bought used years ago for $300. Works perfectly for me in any conditions, river trips, lake fishing, Fletchers, even the Bay. It inflates relatively easily if your are patient and deflates the same. Rolls up into a nice ball that fits under the rear cover of the subi. You can also accessorize a raft to your liking. Endless options. 

Canoes are great as well. 

Drift boats, while really nice, are hard to justify.   

[JT]

Connor, yes -- the frame is DIY.  I was inspired by this boat I came across, which uses NRS frame parts: http://www.mountainbuzz.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=4447&d=1332370863

My frame uses aluminum speed rail fittings (with set screws), 16 gauge steel fence post, 3/4" plywood, and tractor seats.  I became good friends with the store manager at Ace Hardware.  Aire sells a similar oar frame for the Traveler canoe called the "Traveler Rowing Frame," but it just has bench seats. 

[Connor Donovan]

Sweet.  That's a fine turnout for DIY.  I've been contemplating going the speedrail and fence post route for reworking the front half of my frame.  Did you pick up the speed rail fittings online?  Or at ACE?  Because that would be a game changer if I could find those locally.

[JT]

Connor, ACE was my go-to for miscellaneous bolts, washers, nuts, etc.  I got the speed rail fittings online from Zoro Tools.  The 1-1/4" nominal fittings are the size you want if you're planning to use schedule 40 anodized aluminum pipe from NRS (which they will cut to length for you @ $6/foot).  You can also do what I did and use 1-5/8" outside diameter steel fence post (16 gauge, which you can get at Home Depot @ $2/foot). 

Be sure to get POSTS, rather than TOP-RAIL, which is not strong enough.  The set screws on the fittings even crush the posts a bit.  For additional strength, I ended up epoxying a 2 inch long piece of 1.5" OD wood dowel inside the ends of the fence posts, so I could torque the set screws down tighter without crushing the pipe.

The steel post + speed rail fittings route is cheaper than buying NRS pipe and Lopro fittings.  But there is no question that the NRS pipe and Lopros makes a stronger frame, if you are intending to float any serious whitewater.  What type of boat do you have?

[Andrew R]

So after mulling over the options as well as the feedback of the greater TPFR community (thanks everyone!), I asked myself the question typically posed by deep voiced narrators in luxury car commercials...why settle?

I realized I could have the best of both worlds and have decided to buy an NRS clearwater drifter.

With the ability to hit rocks at high speeds and drift in very shallow water like a raft, combined with the size, maneuvarability and feel of a drift boat, the NRS drifter seems to capture the best of both worlds. Not to mention the entire thing can be deflated and packed in the car rather than towed by trailer. The only downside is that rather than fitting four guys like some of the drift boats I looked at (the 18' clackamax remains my ultimate dream), it only fits three.

Now just to find a used one for a reasonable price...

[Rex Moore]

Other than (maybe) having to trailer it, do any of these options beat a small john boat? Not as easy to paddle, but the stability and option of using a motor or electric motor seems like it should at least be in the discussion.

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[Rob Snowhite]

FlyCraft posted this image yesterday of their boats storage size: 

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[Richard Farino]

Andrew,

Buddy of mine owns one of the NRS drifters.  Loves it.  Downside is he lives in Cody, WY and I don’t get to fish with him much each year.

Unless you’re drifting long stretches and letting your guests out to fish, you don’t want 4 people in a drift boat.  Maybe if you’re fishing a steelhead or salmon river and fishing pool to pool, but 4 people just isn’t too feasible for fishing, unless you have 2 spin monkeys up front ;)

Buy boat of choice has always been Clack.  I borrow one each year I’m out floating the SF Snake in Idaho.  Although the 16’ WF is my boat of choice out west, the 15' LP and HHS are more suitable for Eastern rivers.  Everywhere except our area.  I’m wincing thinking about bouncing off all the rocks everywhere I’d fish it.

I’ll get in touch with my buddy and get any pros and cons for you and send them to you via direct message when he responds.

R

Richard Farino

District Angling | Washington, DC

(917)400-5375 | ric...@districtangling.com

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[JT]

Andrew, I haven't seen the Clearwater Drifter in person, but it does not look to me like it packs down that easily.  The frame appears to be held together with like 20+ NRS Lopro fittings, each of which has 2 nuts to undo on a U-bolt.  Just read some customer reviews or find a video showing how it breaks down before you count on being able to pack it quickly/easily in your car.  If you do decide to buy one, I noticed Backcountry has 3 in stock for 25% off retail.

Rob, the Flycraft is a cool looking boat with a slick design, but you're basically paying $2300 for the frame.  The rubber itself appears to be the same as a Saturn RD365 ducky, which you can buy for $650.  Kudos to those guys for their frame design and ingenuity, though.  It was a kickstarter funded company!

[Connor Donovan]

I saw one of those NRS inflatable drifters on the Jackson a few weeks back.  While, huge and comfortable looking, I would not want to break it down and put it in a car - that is definitely a boat that should be trailered.  They aren't small.  And they aren't light.  Just the rubber for the smaller one weighs over 100 lbs and the bigger one weighs 135lbs according to the website.  And when it comes time to get off the water and roll it up, it looks like it'll take a while with all those lopros. If you can talk to someone that owns one, I would highly recommend it.  The first question I would ask is -  how easy are they to repair on the water.  And would you recommend rolling and unrolling it.  Seams are the first thing to get damaged when rolling/unrolling if not done properly.  Not that you need to be meticulous but there is a way to do it to ensure you don't mess them up and create a weak spot in a boat that needs relatively high pressure to stay rigid (most rafts need 2.5psi).  And, without closely inspecting one, I bet that boat has seams in weird places and has a lot of them. The one complaint I've read, that sticks out the most,  is that they don't drain fast enough for some people's liking.  But that probably personal preference  to their home water which I imagine is somewhat gnarly.

Whatever you decide on, be safe.  Don't skimp on safety - buy properly sized, good PFD's.  Be smart about where you anchor, if you decide to use on.  Do some research on maintenance.  Practice good etiquette on the water when around/passing other boats/fisherman. Prepare to spend a lot of money you didn't realize you needed to for safety gear, spare parts, maintenance stuff, straps, bags/boxes to keep stuff dry, the list goes on and on.  Honestly though, if this buying an inflatable becomes a reality, the second thing you should buy (after good PFDs) are cup holders.  These damn rafts are like that drunk dude at the party that keeps bumping into you and knocks the beer out of your hand.  Beers spill all the freaking time.  And it's annoying as hell - until you buy cup holders.

But as they say, whatever gets you on the water.  And one saying that I've been living by - a trailer is a luxury, not a necessity. 

I would steer clear of Flycraft if possible.  But that's all I'll say about that.

JT - I'm still in awe of that IK.  That may be the next vessel I add to my fleet.  Thanks again for the response.  My next frame will absolutely be speed rail fittings.

[Andrew R]

Hey everyone,

Thanks for the feedback. Definitely good things to think about before I put any money down on one of these. I'm guessing it'll probably take a couple of months to find one of these nrs drifters used as they're not exactly a household item. I spoke with a couple of people who own them. One was the owner of 8200 Mountain Sports, a fly shop/outdoor shop based out of Colorado. He has one freestone and one clearwater in his guide fleet. He was definitely more positive about the freestone than the clearwater. The freestone looks cool and reminds me of an adipose with the low sides. Not sure how it would perform on the upper potomac or shenandoah though.

The main two drawbacks both people brought up: Like mentioned above, it doesn't drain as quickly as a self bailing raft, and if it's windy, its light weight tends to lend it to getting pushed around, especially on stillwater.

Connor, I'll have to look more into the repacking process/storing in the car, but both people i spoke with said that they were able to transport in their cars, one guy in his hatchback, the other in his suv. With that said, it's not that light so it's not something I could really take out solo and definitely would need to plan any trip for 20-30 minutes each for set up and tear down. The seams are definitely an area i'd want to focus on, especially when rolling/unrolling. I'll have to find out more about on-water repairs. Thanks for the food for thought, it'll be good to think about as I shop around.

Andrew