Leader for clouser minnows

[Tyler Lucas]

Hello all,

What is the preferred leader for a #2 clouser minnow?  The reason I am asking is because I used a heavy fly for the first time today ( I am a beginner ) and I encounterd a "dog hitting the end of a leash" effect, and it was giving me alot of trouble with my casts.  I was wondering if you are supposed to use a shorter, or heavier leader in order to prevent that from happening.  I altered my cast to a more "rolling" motion as opposed to just keeping my rod straight, but it didn't really help me. 

I apologize if I sound like I have no idea what I am talking about, honestly I really don't. 

Any way, any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Tyler Lucas

[Tyler Lucas]

Also Im using a 8'6"  5-6 rod

[Scott Stankus]

You'll definitely be better off with a shorter and thicker leader for flies like Clousers. I suggest just using a section of straight (2-3 feet) 18-20 lb mono to something smaller like 10-12 lb (also like 2-3 feet). Overall, my leader is usually 6-9 feet when fishing Clousers around here. I just use a 20-lb "butt" section tied directly a 12-lb "tippet" section, though I think it's recommended to use something in between (like a short section of 16-lb) as knots work best with materials that are of similar diameter. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable on that subject could weigh in?

What size rod are you using? The above is my setup for an 8-weight. It would probably be the same for a 6- or 7-weight, but I don't think it would work so well for anything lighter than that.

Not that it will impact your casting, but one thing that is highly recommended when fishing minnow-like patterns such as the Clouser is to use a loop knot to attach your fly to the tippet. Something like a Non-slip Mono loop works well. This gives the fly a little more movement when it's in the water. 

--Scott

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[TurbineBlade]

A #2 leaded clouser is tough on a 5/6 weight fly line, in areas very near the big river (with wind being common) no matter what you do.  I'd chop down to a 5-6' leader of heavy mono like the ^^ guy said.  Try a belgian cast and/or lobbing to avoid overhead casting altogether.  

I find that I don't catch fewer fish on smaller streamer patterns, so I mostly toss #6-12s.  If you like the bigger stuff, you might consider a 7-8 weight fly line to carry those suckers a bit better.  

Gene

On Thursday, December 12, 2013 4:44:51 PM UTC-5, Scott S wrote:

You'll definitely be better off with a shorter and thicker leader for flies like Clousers. I suggest just using a section of straight (2-3 feet) 18-20 lb mono to something smaller like 10-12 lb (also like 2-3 feet). Overall, my leader is usually 6-9 feet when fishing Clousers around here. I just use a 20-lb "butt" section tied directly a 12-lb "tippet" section, though I think it's recommended to use something in between (like a short section of 16-lb) as knots work best with materials that are of similar diameter. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable on that subject could weigh in?

What size rod are you using? The above is my setup for an 8-weight. It would probably be the same for a 6- or 7-weight, but I don't think it would work so well for anything lighter than that.

Not that it will impact your casting, but one thing that is highly recommended when fishing minnow-like patterns such as the Clouser is to use a loop knot to attach your fly to the tippet. Something like a Non-slip Mono loop works well. This gives the fly a little more movement when it's in the water. 

--Scott

On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 4:22 PM, Tyler Lucas <tylerl...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hello all,

What is the preferred leader for a #2 clouser minnow?  The reason I am asking is because I used a heavy fly for the first time today ( I am a beginner ) and I encounterd a "dog hitting the end of a leash" effect, and it was giving me alot of trouble with my casts.  I was wondering if you are supposed to use a shorter, or heavier leader in order to prevent that from happening.  I altered my cast to a more "rolling" motion as opposed to just keeping my rod straight, but it didn't really help me. 

I apologize if I sound like I have no idea what I am talking about, honestly I really don't. 

Any way, any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Tyler Lucas

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[Tyler Lucas]

Thank you, I think I may go buy some smaller clousers and give that a try, Im not really in the market for a new rod. 

Thank you both

On Thursday, December 12, 2013 4:22:25 PM UTC-5, Tyler Lucas wrote:

[Vic Velasco]

Try this - 

Tie a perfection loop in one end of a 20# piece of monofilament.  Cut the other end at 3'.  Tie a uni-uni knot between the end you just cut and a piece of 15#.  Cut that second piece at 2'.  For the tippet section, either tie another set of uni-uni knots, or tie two perfection loops (one on the just cut end of the 15# line, the other on a piece of 2X tippet or 10# mono).  The two perfection loop version will let you switch out the tippet section after you'll whittled it down (by changing out flies, losing flies and tying on new ones, etc - the tippet will get shorter one way or another).  For every person on this forum, you'll get a different recommendation here - but I recommend keeping this last piece (the 10# mono or 2X tippet material) at 1.5'.  This is a short and stout leader - but one that I've used to help teach other beginners and get them through their first several outings (the frustrating stage).

The other thing you can try is a furled leader - the stoutness of the butt section (thickest part) on a furled leader helps a lot in casting.

The other thing you'll want to do is keep practicing your casts.

I'll be out at 4MR first thing on Saturday morning by the outfall.  If you make it out there, I'd be more than happy to help (tie up a leader that works for you, or help with casting).

Vic

[Steve]

Tyler,

I’m with Gene on that one.  That’s a big fly to throw on a 5-6 wt.  What line are you using?  Are you using a sink tip?  You may also consider rigging a second reel spool (or another reel if you have it) with line engineered to throw heavy flies.  A bass or “streamer”  line or something like it in a 6wt could give you a bit more umph.  For flies, I would recommend starting small, say #10 and working up to the larger ones.  You’ll get to a point though when you surpass the line and rod limits of “fun” and then you’ll want to learn Belgian or the "bombing run" (cast and duck for cover).  That one’s not on YouTube or a recognized FFF cast…yet.  I highly recommend removing hook barbs and learn to patch the many pin holes you’ll collect in your waders (usually in the seat area).  Shortening the leader and stepping up the size could help.  Play with some combinations to get to your comfort/fun level.  Just some ideas that worked for me.  

There are some casting tweaks to reduce the “dog on a leash” effect, as mentioned in other replies to your post.  That’s a great comparison by the way.  But if you are just starting, I would recommend rigging to your casting comfort zone initially.  

There’s nothing wrong with the 5/6 wt.  I don’t think the fish care.  Good luck!

Steve

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[Tyler Lucas]

Thanks a lot guys I have two #6 clouser minnows so I'm going to throw them and work my way up. 

Vic, I may be there on Saturday actually.  I have my MD and DC permits but have yet to get my VA ( just moved here a few months ago), and I don't really know if I want to risk it, so If i pick it up by then ill be out around 730 am 

Steve, I'm using #6 floating line, and I just have an Orvis 3x leader on.  (about a foot missing)

Thank you all for the insight

On Thursday, December 12, 2013 4:22:25 PM UTC-5, Tyler Lucas wrote:

[Steve]

Great!  

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[Matthew Longley]

Hey Tyler--like others on here have said, throwing a #2 clouser with big heavy eyes is gonna be awkward on a 5-6wt no matter what your leader situation is.  Assuming you want to use those flies, and don't want to change rods, you can also just change the way you cast a bit.  When I'm throwing overweight flies, I open my stance up a bit and really open up my casting stroke, changing the plane a bit more horizontal, and really hauling.  It will almost feel like you are throwing a dumbell on a piece of rope back and forth, but it will work in getting the fly out there.  Not many trees at 4MR, so it works well there.  Just don't hit yourself in the back of the head...

On Thursday, December 12, 2013 10:00:33 PM UTC-5, WaywardAngler wrote:

Great!  

On Dec 12, 2013, at 9:27 PM, Tyler Lucas <tylerl...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks a lot guys I have two #6 clouser minnows so I'm going to throw them and work my way up. 

Vic, I may be there on Saturday actually.  I have my MD and DC permits but have yet to get my VA ( just moved here a few months ago), and I don't really know if I want to risk it, so If i pick it up by then ill be out around 730 am 

Steve, I'm using #6 floating line, and I just have an Orvis 3x leader on.  (about a foot missing)

Thank you all for the insight

On Thursday, December 12, 2013 4:22:25 PM UTC-5, Tyler Lucas wrote:

Hello all,

What is the preferred leader for a #2 clouser minnow?  The reason I am asking is because I used a heavy fly for the first time today ( I am a beginner ) and I encounterd a "dog hitting the end of a leash" effect, and it was giving me alot of trouble with my casts.  I was wondering if you are supposed to use a shorter, or heavier leader in order to prevent that from happening.  I altered my cast to a more "rolling" motion as opposed to just keeping my rod straight, but it didn't really help me. 

I apologize if I sound like I have no idea what I am talking about, honestly I really don't. 

Any way, any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Tyler Lucas

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[John Mathews]

Tyler,

I share this from a saltwater perspective and not from a boat but from a wading standpoint.  I cast 6 and 8 wts, mostly 6wts and I always overline by at least one line wt or two. If I understand your question, at the end of your forward cast your fly snaps to just like a dog that takes off after a squirrel but reaches the end of his rope before he he gets to the object of his ire.One or a couple of things are probably happening. First, you are over powering the forward cast relative to the distance you are casting and you're try or actually throwing very tight loops.  It takes a lot less energy loaded in the road for a 40 to 50 foot cast as opposed to a 70 to 90 foot cast.  Don't over power your cast.  In addition, open up the loop with bigger, heavier flies.  I use a 3-4 foot 30lb fluorocarbon butt section with a 2 to 3 foot section 12 to 15lb fluorocarbon tippet.  This will sink the fly and turn that heavier fly over better.  Good luck and keep on asking questions.

On Thursday, December 12, 2013 4:22:25 PM UTC-5, Tyler Lucas wrote:

[BruceC2C]

Tyler

in addition to current suggestions, check the following

VIDEO #1....water hauling casts ( from Orvis archives)

http://youtu.be/ZfPKL1jZDAQ

VIDEO #2...

http://youtu.be/W8i5gP4sfuI

water haul, water load...u will see them both used...both mean the same

this approach helped me a lot when i was flyfishing 1/32 oz jigs

GoodLuck

On Thursday, December 12, 2013 4:22:25 PM UTC-5, Tyler Lucas wrote:

[namfos]

Ample advice on leaders below. But I'll add some safety tips when casting heavy flies: wear a hat to minimize inadvertent piercings of neck, head, ears, etc. Wear sunglasses/eye protection. And if it gets too windy, get out your spinning rod. ;-)

Mark

[Carl Z.]

I agree with shortening that leader and there is no reason to go down below 8lb mono for this type of fly.

Tyler, you were right on with:

 I altered my cast to a more "rolling" motion as opposed to just keeping my rod straight, but it didn't really help me.

It sounds like you were getting toward the Belgian cast.  That works well.

So does opening your loops up (none of those tight loops for these things)

I have cast lead head jigs on a 4 wt, but you get the bouncy problem you are talking about.  This is where a 7 or 8wt comes in really handy.

I also like a slower rod for these heavy flys.  You can get by with a relatively inexpensive rod for this because it doesn't need to (and shouldn't)  be extra fast.  Another thing is that if you hit your rod with the clouser, you can damage the rod itself.   

Good luck.

Carl

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[Tyler Lucas]

Thank you all.

I hit 4MR today at around 1130.  downsized to #6 clouser, and had no issues.

Thanks for all of the insight

On Thursday, December 12, 2013 4:22:25 PM UTC-5, Tyler Lucas wrote: