Bass and snakehead rod/line/leader recommendations?

[DJ]

Looking for a short fly rod(s) for fishing around cover/structure for largemouth bass, snakeheads and stripers from a canoe and kayak.  Has anyone had a chance to fish the Sage Bass rods and the Recon 7'11" 8 or 9wt?  Does one hold an advantage over the other? Is one better with sink tip line?  I've read more reviews of the Sage rod, but like the warranty and proximity of Orvis stores.  Is a 9wt overkill for this application?  I use a 9' 7wt for smallmouth, but would prefer not to beat that rod up in the boat and pulling large fish from weeds.  Also, do folks have a preference for line or leaders with rods like this?   Thanks!

[TurbineBlade]

7'11" is basically 8', which I would not consider "short" in the sense that most people mean when they talk about "short fly rods".  After casting a ton of rods, my cut-off for "short and feels somewhat weird when casting" is anything below 7'6".

If you think you'd like to try a 9 weight for LMB, etc. go for it brother!  Just because loads of folks online only seem to talk about 9' 8-weights for that use means doesn't mean that you won't prefer something different.   If you want to fish for smallmouth with massive poppers or streamers, bring your 9-weight for that too and just don't talk about it online afterward...I bet you do just fine ;). 

For leaders for floating line, I make my own tapered leaders in a manner similar to how Rob Snowhite does his, with length based upon the fly size/weight, and wind.  That said, I rarely fish a leader longer than 7' for warm water anymore, and often cut off down to 6'.  If you're using heavier tippet (like 12-15 pound mono versus 1-3x or something), the taper becomes somewhat less critical in my experience. 

I own sink tips (10' fast sink tip + floating running line), streamer tips (4' fast sink tip), teeny shooting heads (20-30' fast sink + floating running line), and orvis DC lines (30' fast sink head + int. running line), but I use them so seldom around here that I could set them all on fire and never replace them and still die happy.

For sink tips, if you're fishing a leader longer than 4', you might as well just fish a floating line and weighted fly in my opinion (unless you like "sag" and poor feel under the water). 

If you're worried about pulling large fish from weeds with a 9' 7-weight, those must be some real weeds.  Just point the rod at the fish and remove "rod" from the equation, and you'll horse them in....at the expense of putting more on your tippet, and more hook pull-outs.  You could just use a 5-6' rod and really give yourself some power, but then you have to deal with casting a 5-6' rod all day......

All opinion ^^

TB

On Wednesday, September 6, 2017 at 9:42:56 AM UTC-4, DJ wrote:

[DJ]

Thanks, I guess I should say short(er) rods....I think I'd be less likely to break a tip off in a canoe with my kids around, hopefully it would help with short, accurate casting...and hey who doesn't like a new rod every now and then?  I know folks tire of the "vs" and "which rod" threads, but I thought I'd post specifically about these two as it'll be really tough to test cast them back to back since different places carry them.  
-DJ

[Carl Z.]

If you're looking for a canoe rod, keep it cheap.  An 8wt or 9wt.  I might even suggest a used 2pc rod.  You are less likely to loose a section and if you're hauling a canoe, you don't need to worry about the size of a 2 piece rod.

I love my rods, but to be honest, all of them catch fish.

Carl

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[James Ovelmen]

Between my Dad and I we have many of the Sage Bass 1 & 2 rods in the various sizes. They are great rods, but really do fish best with the fly line that comes with them. I have used a sink tip and full sink line with a couple of the models and find I hit myself and/or the rod more than I would like. I found it hard to match a sinking line with those rods.

On Wednesday, September 6, 2017 at 9:42:56 AM UTC-4, DJ wrote:

[TurbineBlade]

I used to do the same thing -- particularly with heavy shooting heads, you have to really, completely not think of "casting" them in any way that you would a floating line.  That was my mistake.  It is really much better to think of lobbing them in a much wider arc (I hesitate to say "loop") and to aim much higher when you let the line fly. 

I still don't really enjoy using them and I do own matches and some diesel fuel. 

Gene

[DJ]

How do you calculate your leader?  Is there a specific formula you use or just start with a base and add or subtract based on conditions?
Thanks!

-DJ

On Wednesday, September 6, 2017 at 10:29:42 AM UTC-4, TurbineBlade wrote:

[TurbineBlade]

I don't use precise formulas (and question the utility of using mathematics for something used for fishing), but just keep general guidelines in mind.  A decent leader for bass can be made by tying 30 pound mono > 20 pound mono > 12 pound mono in approximately equal lengths, with the total leader being 6-7 feet.  I generally use back-to-back uni knots with 1-2 additional turns on the lighter side than I do the heavier side.  If you like blood knots or seaguar, or surgeons, or whatever -- that's fine.  Just use what you can tie reliably and quickly.  If you wanted to use 40-50 pound mono as the butt and taper down from there instead, go for it.  If you wanted to use a proportionally longer section of 30 pound butt and then shorter sections thereafter -- go for it.  

If you wanted to use a single strip of 12 pound mono as your leader, you can do that too if you want.  I have, but generally prefer tapered leaders now.  The only issue is that it will take more effort on you cast to get it to turn over, and will be slightly even more annoying in wind for that same reason. 

If it's windy, cut your length down and/or reduce skinny tippet end and add to butt section.  If you're casting a tiny dry fly over calm water, add length and add additional tippet to prevent drag (doing basically the opposite).   

Tying your own leaders is a skill every fly fisherman should really know in my opinion, as making modifications based upon conditions is easily learned that way, versus the guy who only ever shows up with the extruded 9' 0-1x bass leader purchased at the bass leader store who never changes anything about it, regardless of whether the wind picks up to 15 mph, or he wants to go from a small woolly bugger to a massive 1/0 popper or something.  Maybe people don't like to cut and add a knot to a leader they paid $6 for.....I don't know.  

[DJ]

Thanks! Anyone here have experience with the 7'11" Recon 8wt that can speak of how it casts (smooth? Accurate especially at bass fishing distances), handles large flies an sink top line vs floating?
DJ

[Rob Snowhite]

I'm a fan of the 7'11" rod. It helps me maneuver around the Tidal Basin trees. I have the Orvis bank shot line. Haven't tossed sinking line. I've thrown some big streamers with it.

Great rod for travel.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 12, 2017, at 12:20 PM, DJ <djcamph...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks! Anyone here have experience with the 7'11" Recon 8wt that can speak of how it casts (smooth? Accurate especially at bass fishing distances), handles large flies an sink top line vs floating?
> DJ
>

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[Matthew Longley]

I tie bass leaders up as follows: 18inches 40lb maxima chameleon, 18inches 30lb maxima chameleon, 18inches 20lb maxima chameleon, 2-3feet of 15lb maxima clear. Chameleon is supposed to be stiffer, and the heavy butt will really turn over a fly.

Really though, a la turbineblade above, it doesn't matter. I just really like tying leaders, and I don't get to fish to much so I get my cheap thrills buying spools and tying knots in my kitchen. The leader setup above does noticeably outperform my old setup of slapping together 2-3 random lengths of 20lb to 10lb trilene, but anything in the middle should be fine. Also blood knots between different colored mono looks really cool, which is essential.

On Wednesday, September 6, 2017 at 9:42:56 AM UTC-4, DJ wrote: