Many of you are familiar with the work to create a systems literacy initiative bridging INCOSE and ISSS and IFSR and others. The work is an evolution of work of other literacy activities such as ocean literacy, http://www.oceanliteracy.net earth science literacy, climate literacy etc see http://www.systemsliteracy.com for more info.
We need to involve K-12 educators and teachers in the process of creating a systems literacy guide, initiative, framework etc and have yet to do that comprehensively. Their involvement has been essential to the success of the ocean literacy activity which started in the USA in 2004 and is now going global based on the US work.. https://oceanliteracy.unesco.org/
I am hoping to go to the National Science Teachers Association annual conference in Boston April 2-5 and if possible have a meeting with anyone on this list that is interested in systems literacy and would be willing to come to Boston and even to learn more about science education in schools in the USA by attending some or all of the conference. https://s6.goeshow.com/nsta/national/2020/overview.cfm
Please contact me directly peterdt...@gmail.com
Thanks
Peter
Peter D Tuddenham
President
College of Exploration
Virginia, USA
http://www.systemsliteracy.net
+1 703 433 5760 (work)
+1 703 625 1136 (cell)
Skype petertudd
Video Meeting https://bluejeans.com/128371287
Managing Director,
CoExploration Limited,
Dorset, England, UK
http://www.coexploration.co.uk
http://www.oceanliteracy.eu
+44 (0) 770 969 7862 (mobile)
Past-President (2018-2019)
International Society for the Systems Sciences
.
--
The SysSciWG wiki is at https://sites.google.com/site/syssciwg/.
Contributions to the discussion are licensed by authors under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Systems Science Working Group Discussion List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to syssciwg+u...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/00ae01d5d60e%24cab28140%24601783c0%24%40gmail.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/CAFgHPLXP9D8%2BdttRJSTtcYs2HHoRVAkdes5TT48PAh9F0ar0Eg%40mail.gmail.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/CAOQXjpkYAxJW_16UiJ%2BYknt0VAc2uG0E_zm9%2B1%2Bsd-UkQzCUyg%40mail.gmail.com.
Ugh.Their work is so silly and rudimentary that I’m embarrassed for them. .Their 4 rules don’t even mention change in any kind of way. And they market this as coming from their “lab” at Cornell.I regret buying the book!DISTINCTIONS RULE: Any idea or thing can be distinguished from the other ideas or things it is with SYSTEMS RULE: Any idea or thing can be split into parts or lumped into a whole RELATIONSHIP RULE: Any idea or thing can relate to other things or ideas PERSPECTIVES RULE: Any thing or idea can be the point or the view of a perspective
On Feb 24, 2020, at 6:08 AM, Peter D Tuddenham <peterdt...@gmail.com> wrote:
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/CAOQXjpkYAxJW_16UiJ%2BYknt0VAc2uG0E_zm9%2B1%2Bsd-UkQzCUyg%40mail.gmail.com.
--
The SysSciWG wiki is at https://sites.google.com/site/syssciwg/.
Contributions to the discussion are licensed by authors under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Systems Science Working Group Discussion List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to syssciwg+u...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/4AB5B599-9626-496F-B07E-0995CB01BFB0%40gmail.com.
On Feb 24, 2020, at 5:04 PM, joseph simpson <jjs...@gmail.com> wrote:
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/CAPnyebzgD7iy6VTfVbCHW5Vobkxc2%3DEPsxiw2YwE%3DFhbOOJPxQ%40mail.gmail.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/1520A306-8A6D-4111-9CE0-37932BA17ED9%40gmail.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/CAPnyebzgD7iy6VTfVbCHW5Vobkxc2%3DEPsxiw2YwE%3DFhbOOJPxQ%40mail.gmail.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/30AAB047-5677-4F1A-842F-D4906E9E8586%40gmail.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/30AAB047-5677-4F1A-842F-D4906E9E8586%40gmail.com.
I’m not sure there is sufficient awareness of the differences (either objective, functional or structural) between systems thinking, systems engineering and systems science. In some of the literature, this has been referred to as a “mindset”, but I have contended it goes beyond mindset into domains not requiring “a mind”.
The problem is similar to asking “how much don’t you know”?
====================================
Kenneth A. Lloyd, Jr.
CEO – Director of Systems Science
Watt Systems Technologies Inc.
Albuquerque, NM 87114 USA
The contents of this email message and any attachments are intended solely for the addressee(s) and may contain confidential and/or privileged information. These contents may be legally protected from disclosure. Due to technological issues with the means of transmission, the integrity of the contents of this email cannot be guaranteed.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/4C1CF29F-F304-4065-BC13-83449C213739%40gmail.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/CAPnyebzgD7iy6VTfVbCHW5Vobkxc2%3DEPsxiw2YwE%3DFhbOOJPxQ%40mail.gmail.com.
In system science I believe we need to take into account two dimensions of system knowledge. This is analogous to our established sciences where theory and practice are integrated as a whole.
DSRP is on the left hand side (diagram below) and is complemented by works such as that from the Waters Foundation and many others.
All of these frameworks have pros and cons. We could even include the majority of the content of our INCOSE handbook and processes on this side.
On the right hand side we have the work of many people who have been considering what some have called General Systems Theory.
Here we have the work of a list far too long to do it justice – but this includes the work of Len and George.
All this knowledge has value, but in order for us to realise the full benefits, it has to be integrated and communicated as a coherent whole, the gaps made evident and researched.
Without an understanding of the knowledge on the right we will lack a solid foundation for our practice. Without practice and the knowledge on the left, our understandings would remain merely academic and lacking validation.
The slide below is from the presentation “A Strategic Plan for System Science” given at the INCOSE IW and you can find the full content on the SSWG webpages
BR Gary (VP System Practice ISSS)
THIS DOCUMENT IS NOT SUBJECT TO EXPORT CONTROL.
From: syss...@googlegroups.com [mailto:syss...@googlegroups.com]
On Behalf Of James Martin
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2020 12:17 PM
To: syss...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [SysSciWG] Systems Literacy and Science Education
Lynn,
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/4C1CF29F-F304-4065-BC13-83449C213739%40gmail.com.
This email and its attachments may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you have received them in error you must not use, copy or disclose their content to any person. Please notify the sender immediately and then delete this email from your system. This e-mail has been scanned for viruses, but it is the responsibility of the recipient to conduct their own security measures. Airbus Operations Limited is not liable for any loss or damage arising from the receipt or use of this e-mail.
Airbus Operations Limited, a company registered in England and Wales, registration number, 3468788. Registered office: Pegasus House, Aerospace Avenue, Filton, Bristol, BS34 7PA, UK.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/4C1CF29F-F304-4065-BC13-83449C213739%40gmail.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/CAPnyebyn03OJatCKJMnd%3Dn5b2wxq%3DgnKwnrmoA-%2BjXWukxWhTw%40mail.gmail.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/2619432E-3525-4AA6-8C34-FEED3F4A6F60%40gmail.com.
A good paper on systems thinking. The unique approach was to use a systems approach to defining systems thinking.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1877050915002860
George
From: syss...@googlegroups.com <syss...@googlegroups.com>
On Behalf Of Lynn Rasmussen
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2020 10:03 AM
To: 'Hillary Sillitto' via Systems Science Working Group Discussion List <syss...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [SysSciWG] Systems Literacy and Science Education
Thanks, Joe, for your comments.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/2619432E-3525-4AA6-8C34-FEED3F4A6F60%40gmail.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/2619432E-3525-4AA6-8C34-FEED3F4A6F60%40gmail.com.
CAUTION: This email was not sent from a Cal Poly Pomona service. Exercise caution when clicking links or opening attachments. Please forward suspicious email to suspec...@cpp.edu.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/CAPnyebw9hPZ24nCAEk2Eu4nJ%3DE6pwZ0V_9GuBWyTy7EecjeDMQ%40mail.gmail.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/A5A2FF1A-BB72-4AB0-83A2-048D55BA9368%40cpp.edu.
--
The SysSciWG wiki is at https://sites.google.com/site/syssciwg/.
Contributions to the discussion are licensed by authors under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Systems Science Working Group Discussion List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to syssciwg+u...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/7FE69148-B9E3-4D0F-B7A9-12C8B147E9BF%40blueyonder.co.uk.
<36_rome_onse_ss_st.pdf>
Sent from my iPhone
--
The SysSciWG wiki is at https://sites.google.com/site/syssciwg/.
Contributions to the discussion are licensed by authors under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Systems Science Working Group Discussion List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to syssciwg+u...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/7FE69148-B9E3-4D0F-B7A9-12C8B147E9BF%40blueyonder.co.uk.
On Feb 25, 2020, at 4:36 PM, joseph simpson <jjs...@gmail.com> wrote
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/CAPnyebyL-0Z3KRJJksK4jRjT2oTicPvAXUxO7QAUX2DQFOGF2A%40mail.gmail.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/40081319-38A0-42CF-9D8A-8A68E1A208A3%40cpp.edu.
CAUTION: This email was not sent from a Cal Poly Pomona service. Exercise caution when clicking links or opening attachments. Please forward suspicious email to suspec...@cpp.edu.
<CSER2017 Troncale STvsSS Final Final.docx>
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/39AB9726-4E76-46D2-A51D-14A3487B4046%40gmail.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/3D1AF3DF-B350-4B56-A453-0A56327B5AB6%40cpp.edu.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/CADTfsHVg%2B4grnBq3naAbmrge7dUavpTD5-SgOKP2NvKgMhV6ZA%40mail.gmail.com.
Joe,
The contexts (more correctly, context models) can be mathematically encoded and “composed” with other contexts that interact with the (linguistically encoded) model. Furthermore, the linguistic model can be related to compositions of abstract concepts. “Coherent consistency” is better achieved at the abstract conceptual level and translated (transformed) by language models (in cultural or domain specific) contexts to form the translation.
Ken Lloyd
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/CAPnyebzqe1AFDpNXP9F2DY2yruZer7uyB5urabuS%3Dw8f-iWzGg%40mail.gmail.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/CAPnyebzqe1AFDpNXP9F2DY2yruZer7uyB5urabuS%3Dw8f-iWzGg%40mail.gmail.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/002201d5ed8e%24134f4a00%2439edde00%24%40gmail.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/CADTfsHXo33moKF0R3YKQAa3tP_V8iaSLk4cSTiCpOyDGvE%3DL0g%40mail.gmail.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/006b01d5ebe8%240266cfd0%2407346f70%24%40gmail.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/CACVvz-qpqso9Hs_g5hyvW6YLy_YpWbEu2XNMoes8ukWwDDRN%3Dw%40mail.gmail.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/CACJD9WH4B05SJ_%2B4PzY6Ei%3D93_Af33aWm1ynWH_UP6-PEf5FoQ%40mail.gmail.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/CAPnyebyWQPczM1rPqMELQPo1%3D-dj38%2BTWRs7xAAjDUMKsJunug%40mail.gmail.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/CACVvz-pjZeTV7rdyWwVZR7bd0y2cQNmT2AP-bcyvfFhcPYasSw%40mail.gmail.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/CAPnyebw1%2ByZAqxdjWzMkCE6Ln9RPx9Z_Bujxjh1FadtXu3PwKQ%40mail.gmail.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/CACVvz-q3mAQaUnqawg4BvS8LNFuF7p0xTS_AeMh5fiEZCAWsnQ%40mail.gmail.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/CACVvz-q3mAQaUnqawg4BvS8LNFuF7p0xTS_AeMh5fiEZCAWsnQ%40mail.gmail.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/CACJD9WH41wa3z%3DwCkp4eWrPOEV_JC8%3DToNydFZbExiBb_S7B7Q%40mail.gmail.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/CAPnyebxF3S-6%2BMcZAMLm07t98%3DBNnBeXq1sx7mbM4ROR3ou5TQ%40mail.gmail.com.
The PDCA cycle is a very useful model when you are dealing with the simple or even the complicated when the scope and the architecture you are working within is clear.
Bud Lawson (bless him), placed Observe Orient Decide and Act (act being the act of planning) to sit above PDCA so that we could use OODA to deal appropriately with the perceived chaotic and complex. (and to keep in mind the context for the architecture/models and not fall into the trap of using a model that is not suitable to the situation)
Peace to you all.
BR Gary
THIS DOCUMENT IS NOT SUBJECT TO EXPORT CONTROL.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/CACJD9WH41wa3z%3DwCkp4eWrPOEV_JC8%3DToNydFZbExiBb_S7B7Q%40mail.gmail.com.
This email and its attachments may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you have received them in error you must not use, copy or disclose their content to any person. Please notify the sender immediately and then delete this email from your system. This e-mail has been scanned for viruses, but it is the responsibility of the recipient to conduct their own security measures. Airbus Operations Limited is not liable for any loss or damage arising from the receipt or use of this e-mail.
Airbus Operations Limited, a company registered in England and Wales, registration number, 3468788. Registered office: Pegasus House, Aerospace Avenue, Filton, Bristol, BS34 7PA, UK.
" Data generated by applying the model to a real-life case suggests that the model can serve as a universal model for various activities by a group of people with commonly shared goal. "
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/CACVvz-rHN2MOkPNkdhzTJYDGe-TVyNemfSXANoxgnyfkjQzcrA%40mail.gmail.com.
Ugh.
Many of you are familiar with the work to create a systems literacy initiative bridging INCOSE and ISSS and IFSR and others. The work is an evolution of work of other literacy activities such as ocean literacy, http://www.oceanliteracy.net earth science literacy, climate literacy etc see http://www.systemsliteracy.comfor more info.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/57f250f1167245d7819c31668abfe31e%40CD1-4BDAG03-P03.cdmail.common.airbusds.corp.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/04B0E6DE-66BD-4472-8A3C-29BEF2CF9861%40cpp.edu.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/CAPnyebyaTL61Z0H%2BOQLM7BOaeKu3M3wkboMpH0xX4iGkqiLaSQ%40mail.gmail.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/CACVvz-qBrH-qiHj9tFh%2BFKs3tREPDca%3DYiDEXdJ_br7eS%2BDGPA%40mail.gmail.com.
On 2 Mar 2020, at 23:05, Helene Finidori <hfin...@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Len, and I am also copying George, Tyler and Hillary as I just listened to the recording of the talk you had recently, that Gary posted on the Systems Science facebook group, and thought that what I am describing below does address some of the questions you had...As much as I agree Len with your anthropomorphic comments as far as PDCA is concerned, which involves conscious intentional rational behavior, so only applicable by humans, I think the OODA loop should be considered differently: as a complex instance (isomorphy?) of the semiotic process through which living organisms actually operate or 'cognize' in their environment, by interpreting or processing the signals their structure is able to process -chemical, electrical, magnetic, odor, sound, kinetic, etc.... The bacteria measures (O) the sugar concentration in the milieu it evolves in and orients itself (ODA) towards the food source. The bee observes (O) the dance of their peers, evaluates (O) the one that is the most convincing, and follows it (DA) towards a new hive location, the hunting dog... etc etc... Integrating new sign interpretation possibilities create adaptations and new structures and capabilities at the micro-evolution level, that eventually create leap at the macro evolution level. Boyd has come up with this OODA model to explain what goes on in a fighter pilot's cognitive process when handling a multitude of complex tasks in a fraction of a second without crashing, and this has been applied as a 'recipe' for adaptive behavior at slower paces involving conscious reflection. But the process is completely 'natural', with some 'culture' coming in there in more reflective applications.I think we should look more closely -as I have been doing these past months- at [bio]semiosis from an evolutionary perspective. Sign processes have been deemed critical in the emergence of complexity in living organisms, and in the evolution of species, with a continuum between nature and culture. Would some similar mechanism be at work at the molecular level?Here are two key slides that illustrate some of this:
<image.png>
On Mar 2, 2020, at 3:00 PM, Helene Finidori <hfin...@gmail.com> wrote:
I think the OODA loop should be considered differently: as a complex instance (isomorphy?) of the semiotic process through which living organisms actually operate or 'cognize' in their environment, by interpreting or processing the signals their structure is able to process -chemical, electrical, magnetic, odor, sound, kinetic, etc.... The bacteria measures (O) the sugar concentration in the milieu it evolves in and orients itself (ODA) towards the food source. The bee observes (O) the dance of their peers, evaluates (O) the one that is the most convincing, and follows it (DA) towards a new hive location, the hunting dog... etc etc... Integrating new sign interpretation possibilities create adaptations and new structures and capabilities at the micro-evolution level, that eventually create leap at the macro evolution level.
"I have the same thoughts about OODA, I see relationships with this pattern and the structure of the VSM, itself based on Beer's analysis of adaptive multicellular organisms to form the model. Lets also not dismiss though the potential utility of the PDCA model for recognising patterns in repetative mechanical processing. I'm not sure how close the analogy is but I certainly see aspects of this in cellular replication for instance." (He then agreed with me on how we need to expand our picture, need landscape pictures that cover the whole territory, and need to integrate ST and SS to better inform praxis).
--
The SysSciWG wiki is at https://sites.google.com/site/syssciwg/.
Contributions to the discussion are licensed by authors under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Systems Science Working Group Discussion List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to syssciwg+u...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/CADTfsHW4UadMFXyajz8NeEsOfVNYJ%3DdMBciB%2Bd_tUJn-pBpoUw%40mail.gmail.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/CACJD9WEz5HkbzqEKCOZZ59RCoj%2BdL8X%3DMiv2TJCFd-0Sh9i2gQ%40mail.gmail.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/CAFgHPLUz58K20Ve3jJT3nZ__0ZBq-G9PH2mRjrd-%2BOn_XLDKpg%40mail.gmail.com.
CAUTION: This email was not sent from a Cal Poly Pomona service. Exercise caution when clicking links or opening attachments. Please forward suspicious email to suspec...@cpp.edu.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/CADTfsHWpG2vvK8qUYwC8x43jVP9FQbrKCfT8%2BCbxOb_wtnS4%2Bg%40mail.gmail.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/CAHkq9YOAcV4mARF2Y_4_%2Bxfhgb6hH-_s4mZz0tKvhoAwjcmkSQ%40mail.gmail.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/CAG06eF1nTC1O6x%3D_4jSDkJpCGFWCc6zXfeQneNbpSgBsUj4b6w%40mail.gmail.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/CAG06eF1nTC1O6x%3D_4jSDkJpCGFWCc6zXfeQneNbpSgBsUj4b6w%40mail.gmail.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/CADTfsHXRZrU_VSTpV2sYnHY4-V%2BFQtEzJbJ2KOGaoGy0C8e%3DXw%40mail.gmail.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/CADTfsHXRZrU_VSTpV2sYnHY4-V%2BFQtEzJbJ2KOGaoGy0C8e%3DXw%40mail.gmail.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/CAExZvQXVrDh98SB4D93qhP67rYgCtT%3DjSAE_RrKJQhBRWRNyZw%40mail.gmail.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/CAG06eF1rUzCK3YFJsqWekUjB4Do6yBfzD20gQYNK0-vyjwBunw%40mail.gmail.com.
Ugh.
Many of you are familiar with the work to create a systems literacy initiative bridging INCOSE and ISSS and IFSR and others. The work is an evolution of work of other literacy activities such as ocean literacy, http://www.oceanliteracy.net earth science literacy, climate literacy etc see http://www.systemsliteracy.com for more info.
--
The SysSciWG wiki is at https://sites.google.com/site/syssciwg/.
Contributions to the discussion are licensed by authors under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Systems Science Working Group Discussion List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to syssciwg+u...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/00ae01d5d60e%24cab28140%24601783c0%24%40gmail.com.
--
The SysSciWG wiki is at https://sites.google.com/site/syssciwg/.
Contributions to the discussion are licensed by authors under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Systems Science Working Group Discussion List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to syssciwg+u...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/CAFgHPLXP9D8%2BdttRJSTtcYs2HHoRVAkdes5TT48PAh9F0ar0Eg%40mail.gmail.com.
--
The SysSciWG wiki is at https://sites.google.com/site/syssciwg/.
Contributions to the discussion are licensed by authors under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Systems Science Working Group Discussion List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to syssciwg+u...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/CAOQXjpkYAxJW_16UiJ%2BYknt0VAc2uG0E_zm9%2B1%2Bsd-UkQzCUyg%40mail.gmail.com.
--
The SysSciWG wiki is at https://sites.google.com/site/syssciwg/.
Contributions to the discussion are licensed by authors under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Systems Science Working Group Discussion List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to syssciwg+u...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/4AB5B599-9626-496F-B07E-0995CB01BFB0%40gmail.com.
--
Joe Simpson
“Reasonable people adapt themselves to the world.
Unreasonable people attempt to adapt the world to themselves.
All progress, therefore, depends on unreasonable people.”
George Bernard Shaw
Git Hub link:
Research Gate link:
YouTube Channel
Web Site:
--
The SysSciWG wiki is at https://sites.google.com/site/syssciwg/.
Contributions to the discussion are licensed by authors under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Systems Science Working Group Discussion List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to syssciwg+u...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/CAPnyebzgD7iy6VTfVbCHW5Vobkxc2%3DEPsxiw2YwE%3DFhbOOJPxQ%40mail.gmail.com.
--
The SysSciWG wiki is at https://sites.google.com/site/syssciwg/.
Contributions to the discussion are licensed by authors under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Systems Science Working Group Discussion List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to syssciwg+u...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/30AAB047-5677-4F1A-842F-D4906E9E8586%40gmail.com.
--
The SysSciWG wiki is at https://sites.google.com/site/syssciwg/.
Contributions to the discussion are licensed by authors under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Systems Science Working Group Discussion List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to syssciwg+u...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/4C1CF29F-F304-4065-BC13-83449C213739%40gmail.com.
--
The SysSciWG wiki is at https://sites.google.com/site/syssciwg/.
Contributions to the discussion are licensed by authors under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Systems Science Working Group Discussion List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to syssciwg+u...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/006b01d5ebe8%240266cfd0%2407346f70%24%40gmail.com.
--
The SysSciWG wiki is at https://sites.google.com/site/syssciwg/.
Contributions to the discussion are licensed by authors under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Systems Science Working Group Discussion List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to syssciwg+u...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/CACVvz-qpqso9Hs_g5hyvW6YLy_YpWbEu2XNMoes8ukWwDDRN%3Dw%40mail.gmail.com.
--
The SysSciWG wiki is at https://sites.google.com/site/syssciwg/.
Contributions to the discussion are licensed by authors under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Systems Science Working Group Discussion List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to syssciwg+u...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/CACJD9WH4B05SJ_%2B4PzY6Ei%3D93_Af33aWm1ynWH_UP6-PEf5FoQ%40mail.gmail.com.
--
Joe Simpson
“Reasonable people adapt themselves to the world.
Unreasonable people attempt to adapt the world to themselves.
All progress, therefore, depends on unreasonable people.”
George Bernard Shaw Git Hub link: Research Gate link: YouTube Channel Web Site:
--
The SysSciWG wiki is at https://sites.google.com/site/syssciwg/.
Contributions to the discussion are licensed by authors under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Systems Science Working Group Discussion List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to syssciwg+u...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/CAPnyebyWQPczM1rPqMELQPo1%3D-dj38%2BTWRs7xAAjDUMKsJunug%40mail.gmail.com.
--
The SysSciWG wiki is at https://sites.google.com/site/syssciwg/.
Contributions to the discussion are licensed by authors under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Systems Science Working Group Discussion List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to syssciwg+u...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/CACVvz-pjZeTV7rdyWwVZR7bd0y2cQNmT2AP-bcyvfFhcPYasSw%40mail.gmail.com.
--
Joe Simpson
“Reasonable people adapt themselves to the world.
Unreasonable people attempt to adapt the world to themselves.
All progress, therefore, depends on unreasonable people.”
George Bernard Shaw Git Hub link: Research Gate link: YouTube Channel Web Site:
--
The SysSciWG wiki is at https://sites.google.com/site/syssciwg/.
Contributions to the discussion are licensed by authors under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Systems Science Working Group Discussion List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to syssciwg+u...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/CAPnyebw1%2ByZAqxdjWzMkCE6Ln9RPx9Z_Bujxjh1FadtXu3PwKQ%40mail.gmail.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/SA0PR18MB36784B8E496E941A838D7283C3E30%40SA0PR18MB3678.namprd18.prod.outlook.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/SA0PR18MB36783413C9A08504250D3CFDC3E00%40SA0PR18MB3678.namprd18.prod.outlook.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/SA0PR18MB36788072EED8F11987F00A6BC3E10%40SA0PR18MB3678.namprd18.prod.outlook.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/4DDA8743-DC4B-48F1-AB6A-BD6C5C0D27EA%40gmail.com.
Jargal,
I too have been writing about thinking but from a perspective that is tangential to yours. You may be aware that two gentlemen Kahneman and Thaler were awarded the Nobel prize for showing that homo sapiens are incapable of making rational decisions. These irrational decisions are influenced by a factor called cognitive bias which is a distortion in decisions caused by emotion and prior belief. They also show that self-mitigation of these biases is virtually impossible because most people are unaware or their own biases and have no desire to correct them. These flawed decisions have resulted in major catastrophes and the loss of thousands of lives.
I have written some short articles about flawed decisions that were published in the INCOSE magazine Insight. I can send you one of these if you wish, It was not my intent to write serious research articles. These were intended to be chain-rattling or attention getting articles. To my dismay this topic has received very little attention.
Finally I have written a book on this topic which is now being reviewed by a publisher. I can send you a draft of the whole book if you wish,
The big question is whether this topic fits into the scope of your topic of thinking as a system. I personally think it does, but that is for you to decide.
Best wishes,
Scott
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/SA0PR18MB367846990E5C5C099B5BC68AC3E10%40SA0PR18MB3678.namprd18.prod.outlook.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/SA0PR18MB367802CDC6D4EC266FF236C8C3E10%40SA0PR18MB3678.namprd18.prod.outlook.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/SA0PR18MB367846990E5C5C099B5BC68AC3E10%40SA0PR18MB3678.namprd18.prod.outlook.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/SA0PR18MB3678C0377275F6E4CF33C921C3FE0%40SA0PR18MB3678.namprd18.prod.outlook.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/SA0PR18MB367811C08847CF4476C52140C3FE0%40SA0PR18MB3678.namprd18.prod.outlook.com.
Joe,
‘Erroneous priorities’ (a structure) and be abstracted into ‘erroneous priors’, which is always a possibility in science. Therefore, a conjecture consists of:
Model: Prior --> Posterior, where the Model and Prior are embedded in a common context. This is, however, incomplete.
Model(Opposite): Posterior --> Prior, and example of Inverse Theory yielding a probabilistic distribution of alternative models (a structure, same as erroneous priorities structure above).
What most people don’t realize is that there is important, useful information in errors [/Beta] about the problem space context (see Scales, Smith, Treitel http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.87.9248&rep=rep1&type=pdf [Pg 23]).
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/CAPnyebwAGLMQhmFyc9DRpeTRmLodzi0OVnuXX43WabePw-e%3Dfw%40mail.gmail.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/CACVvz-rCjASRGzk3%2BZQBOe7YVBJF8EkaBMA_dVqeC-NCA0gahA%40mail.gmail.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/CAFgHPLWQ0ub07esS0FN%3D8mMPiqsKSSUDxDRQ%3D0q0kgoHRX%3DFHw%40mail.gmail.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/CACVvz-qMdDoH5Vcd28ND%2BMf%3DAOzb4Vt-Tq2rA2usSvA%2B9%2Bq%3Dhg%40mail.gmail.com.
"The erroneous priorities effect (EPE) states that groups acting upon what they initially consider important are almost always misplacing their effort. When groups do this they have not yet determined which factors are most influential in their potential to achieve desired change."
I believe that EPE is associated with a collection of individuals that have not established a common context; they have not yet determined which factors are most influential in their potential to achieve desired change.
The individuals use their own individual value systems to establish priorities which, as the EPE states, usually are not aligned with the final group priorities. The main idea is to have group of individuals engage in dialog and discussion to create a common context that also includes a common set of priorities before the individuals in the group vote to rate, rank and prioritize the items of interest.
Take care, be good to yourself and have fun,
Joe
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/005e01d5f60a%241b382d70%2451a88850%24%40gmail.com.
Joe,
This touches upon an important point (IMO) found all through science – the search for knowledge through all the unknowns. Erroneous priorities stem from erroneous priors, which is quite understandable. Everyone’s priors are slightly different. Studies by Ken Stanley and Joel Lehman (currently with Uber Research) found “deception” related to search objectives (especially grand objectives) through underdetermined search spaces. This has profound effect on “determining which factors are most influential”. It also seems almost counter-intuitive.
This phenomenon is also the area where the greatest advances in artificial intelligence have recently been made – how to know where to look when you may be mistaken what you’re looking for. Lehman proposed novelty as the search criteria, which proved, experimentally, more effective and efficient than objective functions. That (novelty) has since been dramatically improved upon. C.F. “The AlphaZero Paradox” and “OpenAI 5”, which, themselves, have subsequently been improved upon. I offer a caveat: do not conflate artificial intelligence with human intelligence – they are very different things.
You may have noticed a pattern of referring to knowledge gained in the past – much from the 1960s – 1980s, some well before. These were the priors for many people. The are also the source for anchoring errors and confirmation biases that result in the erroneous priorities effects, related to that deception in objective search. What has been the effect of new information on those priors? Obviously, that relationship is hard to see – especially when the thinker is part of the system s/he is trying to understand.
I propose a modification to Hofstadter’s Law – call it Science’s Law: “Science is more difficult than you think, even when you consider Science’s Law.”
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/CAPnyebxNqyyrKowAEu7mREJ-x8Jh8Z_CDy1jAKqsjaw0MMEp9g%40mail.gmail.com.
Jack,
There is a paradox inherent in human determination of “a metric for Fit For Purpose”. There are methods for determining metrics for Fit For Purpose in myriad contexts that obviate human anchoring errors and confirmation biases.
Ken Lloyd
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/CAFgHPLW1v2Yy_QGxxead%2BLTDaYTB-Vi0Lns1%2BiHY9Nu%2B%3DzHRAQ%40mail.gmail.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/syssciwg/CACJD9WFeqNS4rN%3DYrSxqQS4r%3DyjYqcf8RkA%2BKNgeXxPOp-C9sQ%40mail.gmail.com.