[First Project] The Painted Veil by W. Somerset Maugham

[Marshall Bockrath]

Hi,

I'd like to try producing a version of _The Painted Veil_ by W. Somerset Maugham, published in the United States in 1925.  The text itself looks straightforward -- all regular prose paragraphs, divided into short chapters.  There is an existing Project Gutenberg transcription and scans on HathiTrust and the Internet Archive.

Gutenberg: https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/64682

Scans: https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.$b243466

There are a few minor textual issues:

1. The Project Gutenberg transcription appears to be based on a later edition and includes an author's preface I do not find in scans of editions from before 1930; it presumably should be omitted.

2. The Project Gutenberg transcription edition is one which substituted "Hong-Kong" with the fictional "Tching-Yen" due to a threatened lawsuit.  The HathiTrust scans edition linked above and modern editions use "Hong-Kong," which presumably is Maugham's intended version.

I don't see any prior discussion of this book on this mailing list, but it also seems a bit obvious not to have been tackled yet, so please let me know if this project would present any unforeseen difficulties.

Thanks!

-Marshall

[Alex Cabal]

Great, that one would be a good start.

You can include the preface, if it's on PG then we can assume it's
public domain.

There is also a one-sentence epigraph that you should include. Since
there is front matter you will have to add a half title page.

This book is a little unusual in that it seems like it's one large
section with short "chapters" that are not really independent chapters.
I would put it all in one single file with the chapters in sub
<section>s. But, you can uppercase the numerals per our house style.

Make sure to read the Standard Ebooks Manual of Style before starting,
as you won't know what to fix if you haven't read the standards. In
particular, please closely review the semantics, high level patterns,
and typography sections:

https://standardebooks.org/manual

https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/4-semantics

https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/7-high-level-structural-patterns

https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/8-typography

The step by step guide will take you from start to finish:

https://standardebooks.org/contribute/producing-an-ebook-step-by-step

This page on common issues in older books may be useful:

https://standardebooks.org/contribute/how-tos/common-issues-when-working-on-public-domain-ebooks

Please email often if you have any questions at all. Our standards are
well-established so there is probably already a standard for formatting
whatever problem you've encountered.

When you're ready, email back with a link to your Github repository so
that I can mark you as having started.

Have fun! :)

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[Marshall Bockrath]

On Wed, May 28, 2025 at 11:31 AM Alex Cabal <al...@standardebooks.org> wrote:

 

You can include the preface, if it's on PG then we can assume it's
public domain.

Is this a policy decision? -- if PG made a mistake, it's fine to follow; or an assessment? -- PG was unlikely to have made a mistake.

If the latter, I'm pretty confident that this was a mistake regardless.  The PG transcription header specifically refers to the page scans as having been sourced from the Internet Archive and the PG transcription content copies text stating that the source edition was "THE COLLECTED EDITION OF THE WORKS OF W. SOMERSET MAUGHAM".  I checked all the "collected edition" copies of _The Painted Veil_ on archive.org, and they all include a publication history specifying "Collected Edition (reset) 1934".  I'm reasonably confident the preface was added for this edition and so is not yet in the public domain.

There is also a one-sentence epigraph that you should include. Since
there is front matter you will have to add a half title page.

Roger!

 

This book is a little unusual in that it seems like it's one large
section with short "chapters" that are not really independent chapters.
I would put it all in one single file with the chapters in sub
<section>s. But, you can uppercase the numerals per our house style.

Hmm.  I'm a bit of two minds on this:

- For running chapters: all editions of this novel I've inspected are set with running chapters in this style, and some of the chapters are quite short.

- For page-breaks between chapters: different print editions of Maugham's previous and subsequent novels have appeared using both styles -- I have found versions in both styles for _The Moon and Sixpence_, _Of Human Bondage_, and _Cakes and Ale_ -- but the Standard Ebooks editions of Maugham's novels thus far have all used page breaks between chapters.

I'll probably waffle a bit then probably merge back into a single file unless suggested otherwise (yes, I already started and split into chapters, alas).

When you're ready, email back with a link to your Github repository so
that I can mark you as having started.

Any special options or naming convention to follow, or does anything amiss get ironed out when (I presume) the repo is transferred to the standardebooks org?

 

Have fun! :)

Already so-doing! :-D

 

Thanks!

-Marshall

[Alex Cabal]

Can you send me a link to the scans you're looking at? It is unlikely PG
made a mistake.

Repo name doesn't matter but please send a link to your Github repo so
we can assign a manager and reviewer.

On 5/28/25 2:43 PM, Marshall Bockrath wrote:
> On Wed, May 28, 2025 at 11:31 AM Alex Cabal <al...@standardebooks.org
> <mailto:al...@standardebooks.org>> wrote:
>
> You can include the preface, if it's on PG then we can assume it's
> public domain.
>
>
> Is this a policy decision? -- if PG made a mistake, it's fine to follow;
> or an assessment? -- PG was unlikely to have made a mistake.
>
> If the latter, I'm pretty confident that this was a mistake regardless.
> The PG transcription header specifically refers to the page scans as
> having been sourced from the Internet Archive and the PG transcription
> content copies text stating that the source edition was "THE COLLECTED
> EDITION OF THE WORKS OF W. SOMERSET MAUGHAM".  I checked all the

> "collected edition" copies of _The Painted Veil_ on archive.org <http://
> archive.org>, and they all include a publication history specifying

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[Marshall Bockrath]

On Wednesday, May 28, 2025 at 3:57:05 PM UTC-4 Alex Cabal wrote:

Can you send me a link to the scans you're looking at? It is unlikely PG
made a mistake. 

These are the two Internet Archive scans with title pages matching the one included in the PG transcription:

• https://archive.org/details/W.SomersetMaughamThePaintedVeil/page/n1/mode/2up
• https://archive.org/details/dli.ministry.18340/page/n7/mode/2up 

Repo name doesn't matter but please send a link to your Github repo so
we can assign a manager and reviewer.

Created and pushed current state:

• https://github.com/llasram/w-somerset-maugham_the-painted-veil

-Marshall

[Alex Cabal]

OK, cut the preface then and make a note of why in the production-note
notes section of the metadata.

Weijia will manage this with Lukas reviewing.

On 5/28/25 4:34 PM, Marshall Bockrath wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 28, 2025 at 3:57:05 PM UTC-4 Alex Cabal wrote:
>
> Can you send me a link to the scans you're looking at? It is
> unlikely PG
> made a mistake.
>
>
> These are the two Internet Archive scans with title pages matching the
> one included in the PG transcription:
>

> * https://archive.org/details/W.SomersetMaughamThePaintedVeil/page/n1/
> mode/2up
> * https://archive.org/details/dli.ministry.18340/page/n7/mode/2up

>
> Repo name doesn't matter but please send a link to your Github repo so
> we can assign a manager and reviewer.
>
>
> Created and pushed current state:
>

> * https://github.com/llasram/w-somerset-maugham_the-painted-veil

>
> -Marshall
>
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[Weijia Cheng]

Ok, let me know if you have any more questions and I'll try to answer them.

[Vince]

This edition that includes the preface has a publishing history, but only a single copyright of 1925. That wouldn’t be true if the preface was copyrighted another year, would it?

[Alex Cabal]

Interesting, it says copyright by the estate 1925 so that must be it
then. Since PG is also hosting it, I think we're fine to include it
after all. Good find Vince!

On 5/28/25 5:27 PM, Vince wrote:
> This <https://archive.org/details/paintedveil0000unse_v1t6/page/n5/
> mode/2up?q=%22easter+vacation+gave+me+six+weeks+to+myself%22> edition

> that includes the preface has a publishing history, but only a single
> copyright of 1925. That wouldn’t be true if the preface was copyrighted
> another year, would it?
>

> PastedGraphic-1.png
>
>
>> On May 28, 2025, at 2:56 PM, Alex Cabal <al...@standardebooks.org> wrote:
>>
>> Can you send me a link to the scans you're looking at? It is unlikely
>> PG made a mistake.
>>
>> Repo name doesn't matter but please send a link to your Github repo so
>> we can assign a manager and reviewer.
>

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[Marshall Bockrath]

On Wed, May 28, 2025 at 6:13 PM 'Weijia Cheng' via Standard Ebooks <standar...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Ok, let me know if you have any more questions and I'll try to answer them.

Great! I have some:

1. How should "P. & O." be marked semantically? https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.$b243466&seq=272&q1=company
2. Likewise "P. and O." and should one form or the other be switched for consistency? https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.$b243466&seq=23&q1=p.+and+o.
3. How should an inline letter be marked? https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.$b243466&seq=87&q1=urgent
4. Also on the inline letter, should one of the quoting and italics be removed, and if so which?
5. What inflection should be used for dialogue content which is a quotation which is spoken in a foreign language but translated into English in the text?  (whew) https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.$b243466&seq=209&q1=angel

Thanks!

-Marshall

[Marshall Bockrath]

On Wed, May 28, 2025 at 6:57 PM Alex Cabal <al...@standardebooks.org> wrote:

Interesting, it says copyright by the estate 1925 so that must be it
then. Since PG is also hosting it, I think we're fine to include it
after all. Good find Vince!

Ok, I have restored the preface to my repo.

I'd been assuming a stricter standard of US publication from clearly before 1930 in order to be completely confident that the work was entirely in the public domain in the US, to avoid any risk of cross-national publication extending copyright even in the absence of explicit copyright notice.

For the page scan source is it fine then to link to one of the Penguin editions which was printed later but only asserts the 1925 copyright?  I picked the HathiTrust copy I did because it was a US edition that appears to be from before 1930 and has US style punctuation (but retains en-GB spelling etc).  Or should I reference both?

-Marshall

[Alex Cabal]

I have to see it. Generally if it says (c) <some-pd-year> then we can
use it regardless of what actual year it was published in.

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[Weijia Cheng]

1. <abbr epub:type="z3998:initialism">P.</abbr> & <abbr epub:type="z3998:initialism">O.</abbr> (ampersand would have to be escaped in the actual code)

2. You can standardize on P. &. O. in an editorial commit.

3. The relevant rule for that example is 8.2.1. You can simply remove the italics. No need for any additional semantics.

4. See above.

5. In this case I think rule 8.2.1, about italics and quotes, still applies. I would take the italics off. But you can wrap the paragraph in <blockquote>, since that is what the quote is in context. That would also create some visual distinction.

[Marshall Bockrath]

I've done a read-though and have just a few changes I still need to make before next steps.  A few questions first:

1. There are a number of characters who are nuns with adopted names like "Sister St. Joseph" and "Sister St. Francis".  The "St." for "Saint" abbreviation is a z3998:name-title for the referenced saint, but not for the character actually named in the text.  Which inflection should be used here?

2. There is a letter which is signed with initials, which with the default CSS is not distinguished from regular capitals.  Should there be additional CSS to force the initials to small caps?

3. How much leeway is there to adjust standard CSS with local rules?  I did re-merge the files to have a single body file with running chapters; then I felt the standard CSS with equal spacing before and after headings was a bit much so I added a local rule to halve the space following the chapter headings.

Thanks!

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[Weijia Cheng]

1. z3998:name-title is fine.

2. No, the default CSS is fine.

3. The general question of how much leeway we have with local rules is hard to answer. We have some leeway, especially when it comes to tricky cases, but we generally want to avoid changing the styling on a whim. Can you push the changes so that I can see what your current styling is? Also, rule 7.1.3.1 should be applicable to styling this book.

[Marshall Bockrath]

3. Pushed, but it now seems like my modification is irrelevant and should be removed.  When Alex suggested at the beginning of this thread that the body matter could be in one file I thought that was to allow reproducing the visual style where there were not necessarily page breaks between the very short chapters.  If the SE house style is in fact to always force page breaks then I misunderstood.  What is the rationale for splitting into per-chapter files or not here?

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[Weijia Cheng]

Honestly, I have no idea why we would want to put all the text into one file here instead of splitting it. That is very much an Alex Question. I personally would not have asked for that structure, but I am only a mere Editor, and not Editor-in-Chief ;)

______________________________

Weijia Cheng (they/them)

On Jun 3, 2025, at 11:46 PM, Marshall Bockrath <lla...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Alex Cabal]

If I recall, in print there are no page breaks between chapters.
Splitting them into separate files will force page breaks. Keeping them
all in one file prevents page breaks.

On 6/4/25 10:15 AM, 'Weijia Cheng' via Standard Ebooks wrote:
> Honestly, I have no idea why we would want to put all the text into one
> file here instead of splitting it. That is very much an Alex Question. I
> personally would not have asked for that structure, but I am only a mere
> Editor, and not Editor-in-Chief ;)
> ______________________________
>
> Weijia Cheng (they/them)
>
>> On Jun 3, 2025, at 11:46 PM, Marshall Bockrath <lla...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> 
>> 3. Pushed, but it now seems like my modification is irrelevant and
>> should be removed.  When Alex suggested at the beginning of this
>> thread that the body matter could be in one file I thought that was to
>> allow reproducing the visual style where there were not necessarily
>> page breaks between the very short chapters.  If the SE house style is
>> in fact to always force page breaks then I misunderstood.  What is the
>> rationale for splitting into per-chapter files or not here?
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 3, 2025 at 6:42 PM 'Weijia Cheng' via Standard Ebooks
>> <standar...@googlegroups.com

>> <mailto:standar...@googlegroups.com>> wrote:
>>
>> 1. z3998:name-title is fine.
>> 2. No, the default CSS is fine.
>> 3. The general question of how much leeway we have with local
>> rules is hard to answer. We have some leeway, especially when it
>> comes to tricky cases, but we generally want to avoid changing the
>> styling on a whim. Can you push the changes so that I can see what

>> your current styling is? Also, rule 7.1.3.1 <https://
>> standardebooks.org/manual/1.8.2/7-high-level-structural-
>> patterns#7.1.3.1> should be applicable to styling this book.

>>
>> On Tuesday, June 3, 2025 at 7:57:05 PM UTC-4 lla...@gmail.com

>> <mailto:lla...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I've done a read-though and have just a few changes I still
>> need to make before next steps.  A few questions first:
>>
>> 1. There are a number of characters who are nuns with adopted
>> names like "Sister St. Joseph" and "Sister St. Francis".  The
>> "St." for "Saint" abbreviation is a z3998:name-title for the
>> referenced saint, but not for the character actually named in
>> the text.  Which inflection should be used here?
>> 2. There is a letter which is signed with initials, which with
>> the default CSS is not distinguished from regular capitals.
>> Should there be additional CSS to force the initials to small
>> caps?
>> 3. How much leeway is there to adjust standard CSS with local
>> rules?  I did re-merge the files to have a single body file
>> with running chapters; then I felt the standard CSS with equal
>> spacing before and after headings was a bit much so I added a
>> local rule to halve the space following the chapter headings.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 29, 2025 at 10:10 AM 'Weijia Cheng' via Standard
>> Ebooks <standar...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>
>> 1. <abbr epub:type="z3998:initialism">P.</abbr> & <abbr
>> epub:type="z3998:initialism">O.</abbr> (ampersand would
>> have to be escaped in the actual code)
>> 2. You can standardize on P. &. O. in an editorial commit.

>> 3. The relevant rule for that example is 8.2.1 <https://
>> standardebooks.org/manual/1.8.2/8-typography#8.2.1>. You

>> groups.google.com/d/msgid/ <https://groups.google.com/
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[Weijia Cheng]

Interesting. I guess you won't need the page-break CSS, then. I would have thought this would have been a case of "we don't need to replicate the layout of the page scans."

[Alex Cabal]

Seemed like a deliberate author choice. A lot of the "chapters" are just
a few paragraphs.

> <http://standardebooks.org/manual/1.8.2/7-high-level-structural->

> >> standardebooks.org/manual/1.8.2/8-typography#8.2.1 <http://

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> >> eebe9b5d7d34n%40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>
> <https://
> >> groups.google.com/d/msgid/ <http://groups.google.com/d/msgid/>
> >> standardebooks/86c89783-24e2-4b96-8ebf-
> >> eebe9b5d7d34n%40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>?

> >> utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
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> >> ed749164e3f5n%40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>
> <https://groups.google.com/d/ <https://groups.google.com/d/>
> >> msgid/standardebooks/3e880cee-836b-4161-a592-
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> utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <http://40googlegroups.com?

> utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.
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> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/>
> >> standardebooks/CAB-iOwq7pqE%2Br0NQT2PGHAuHFMuC-DSXWHSfb3-
> >> s%3D1xAA9%3DTxQ%40mail.gmail.com <http://40mail.gmail.com>
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ <https://groups.google.com/d/
> msgid/>
> >> standardebooks/CAB-iOwq7pqE%2Br0NQT2PGHAuHFMuC-DSXWHSfb3-
> >> s%3D1xAA9%3DTxQ%40mail.gmail.com?
> utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <http://40mail.gmail.com?

> utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.
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> > standardebooks/34E7235B-D51B-41B7-B69C-0A0C7D9B317C%40bu.edu
> <http://40bu.edu> <https://
> > groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/34E7235B-D51B-41B7-
> <http://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/34E7235B-D51B-41B7->
> > B69C-0A0C7D9B317C%40bu.edu?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer
> <http://40bu.edu?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.

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> standardebooks/31fd367a-1ac0-4564-b4f9-0fef3e3a9f26n%40googlegroups.com
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/31fd367a-1ac0-4564-
> b4f9-0fef3e3a9f26n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.

[Marshall Bockrath]

I believe that I'm done proofreading, and it appears the next step is choosing a cover image.

I don't know much about art, so this has been a bit of a slog.  The book is set in China; though the "Chinese" parts are few, certain elements of the landscape appear repeatedly.  I looked for European artists painting landscapes of China in the European style and found George Chinnery (1774-1852).  There's a painting of his which seems absolutely perfect, but the museum housing it (Peabody Essex) doesn't appear to provide CC0 images of its artwork (cry cry).

So here's two options attached: 

(1) A landscape, vaguely resembling one described in the novel, but cropped from a watercolor painting; source https://collections.britishart.yale.edu/catalog/tms:8416

(2) A still life, abstractly evoking some of the feel of the novel, from a proper oil painting; source https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/10473

Thoughts?

Thanks!

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/7bc412ff-a468-43e8-82bf-cacbbefe4d3a%40standardebooks.org.

[Alex Cabal]

Finding fine art style paintings of Chinese/Asian subjects is hard, the
subject was just not very common in that era. One key word for searching
is "orientalist" and "orientalism" though that's a very big catch-all.

On 6/11/25 6:25 PM, Marshall Bockrath wrote:
> I believe that I'm done proofreading, and it appears the next step is
> choosing a cover image.
>
> I don't know much about art, so this has been a bit of a slog.  The book
> is set in China; though the "Chinese" parts are few, certain elements of
> the landscape appear repeatedly.  I looked for European artists painting
> landscapes of China in the European style and found George Chinnery

> (1774-1852).  There's a painting of his which seems absolutely /
> perfect/, but the museum housing it (Peabody Essex) doesn't appear to

> provide CC0 images of its artwork (cry cry).
>
> So here's two options attached:
>
> (1) A landscape, vaguely resembling one described in the novel, but
> cropped from a watercolor painting; source https://

> collections.britishart.yale.edu/catalog/tms:8416 <https://

> collections.britishart.yale.edu/catalog/tms:8416>
>
> (2) A still life, abstractly evoking some of the feel of the novel, from
> a proper oil painting; source https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/

> search/10473 <https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/10473>

> >     <lla...@gmail.com <mailto:lla...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >      >>
> >      >> 
> >      >> 3. Pushed, but it now seems like my modification is
> irrelevant and
> >      >> should be removed.  When Alex suggested at the beginning
> of this
> >      >> thread that the body matter could be in one file I
> thought that
> >     was to
> >      >> allow reproducing the visual style where there were
> not necessarily
> >      >> page breaks between the very short chapters.  If the SE house
> >     style is
> >      >> in fact to always force page breaks then I
> misunderstood.  What
> >     is the
> >      >> rationale for splitting into per-chapter files or not here?
> >      >>
> >      >>
> >      >> On Tue, Jun 3, 2025 at 6:42 PM 'Weijia Cheng' via
> Standard Ebooks
> >      >> <standar...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:standar...@googlegroups.com>

> >      >> <mailto:standar...@googlegroups.com

> <mailto:standar...@googlegroups.com>>> wrote:
> >      >>
> >      >> 1. z3998:name-title is fine.
> >      >> 2. No, the default CSS is fine.
> >      >> 3. The general question of how much leeway we have with local
> >      >> rules is hard to answer. We have some leeway, especially
> when it
> >      >> comes to tricky cases, but we generally want to avoid
> changing the
> >      >> styling on a whim. Can you push the changes so that I can
> see what
> >      >> your current styling is? Also, rule 7.1.3.1 <https://
> >      >> standardebooks.org/manual/1.8.2/7-high-level-structural-
> <http://standardebooks.org/manual/1.8.2/7-high-level-structural->

> >     <http://standardebooks.org/manual/1.8.2/7-high-level-
> structural- <http://standardebooks.org/manual/1.8.2/7-high-level-

> structural->>
> >      >> patterns#7.1.3.1> should be applicable to styling this book.
> >      >>
> >      >> On Tuesday, June 3, 2025 at 7:57:05 PM UTC-4
> lla...@gmail.com <mailto:lla...@gmail.com>

> >      >> <mailto:lla...@gmail.com <mailto:lla...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >      >>
> >      >> I've done a read-though and have just a few changes I still
> >      >> need to make before next steps.  A few questions first:
> >      >>
> >      >> 1. There are a number of characters who are nuns with adopted
> >      >> names like "Sister St. Joseph" and "Sister St. Francis".  The
> >      >> "St." for "Saint" abbreviation is a z3998:name-title for the
> >      >> referenced saint, but not for the character actually named in
> >      >> the text.  Which inflection should be used here?
> >      >> 2. There is a letter which is signed with initials, which
> with
> >      >> the default CSS is not distinguished from regular capitals.
> >      >> Should there be additional CSS to force the initials to small
> >      >> caps?
> >      >> 3. How much leeway is there to adjust standard CSS with local
> >      >> rules?  I did re-merge the files to have a single body file
> >      >> with running chapters; then I felt the standard CSS with
> equal
> >      >> spacing before and after headings was a bit much so I added a
> >      >> local rule to halve the space following the chapter headings.
> >      >>
> >      >> Thanks!
> >      >>
> >      >>
> >      >>
> >      >> On Thu, May 29, 2025 at 10:10 AM 'Weijia Cheng' via Standard
> >      >> Ebooks <standar...@googlegroups.com

> <mailto:standar...@googlegroups.com>> wrote:
> >      >>
> >      >> 1. <abbr epub:type="z3998:initialism">P.</abbr> & <abbr
> >      >> epub:type="z3998:initialism">O.</abbr> (ampersand would
> >      >> have to be escaped in the actual code)
> >      >> 2. You can standardize on P. &. O. in an editorial commit.
> >      >> 3. The relevant rule for that example is 8.2.1 <https://
> >      >> standardebooks.org/manual/1.8.2/8-typography#8.2.1

> <http://standardebooks.org/manual/1.8.2/8-typography#8.2.1> <http://

> > standardebooks.org/manual/1.8.2/8-typography#8.2.1 <http://
> standardebooks.org/manual/1.8.2/8-typography#8.2.1>>>. You
> >      >> can simply remove the italics. No need for any additional
> >      >> semantics.
> >      >> 4. See above.
> >      >> 5. In this case I think rule 8.2.1, about italics and
> >      >> quotes, still applies. I would take the italics off. But
> >      >> you can wrap the paragraph in <blockquote>, since that is
> >      >> what the quote is in context. That would also create some
> >      >> visual distinction.
> >      >> On Thursday, May 29, 2025 at 11:35:11 AM UTC-4 Alex Cabal
> >      >> wrote:
> >      >>
> >      >> I have to see it. Generally if it says (c) <some-pd-
> >      >> year> then we can
> >      >> use it regardless of what actual year it was published
> >      >> in.
> >      >>
> >      >> On 5/29/25 6:52 AM, Marshall Bockrath wrote:
> >      >> > On Wed, May 28, 2025 at 6:57 PM Alex Cabal
> >      >> <al...@standardebooks.org <mailto:al...@standardebooks.org>

> >      >> > <mailto:al...@standardebooks.org

> >      >> > <mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com

> <mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com>>.
> >      >> > To view this discussion visit https://
> >      >> groups.google.com/d/msgid/ <http://groups.google.com/d/

> msgid/> <http://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ <http://

> groups.google.com/d/msgid/>>
> >     <https://groups.google.com/ <https://groups.google.com/>
> <https://groups.google.com/ <https://groups.google.com/>>
> >      >> d/msgid/>
> >      >> > standardebooks/CAB-
> >      >> >
> >      >>
> iOwrY2Bc3Gqz3vt2t15_ymvUn9G6B5QYcYfz5MpCvoq9ojg%40mail.gmail.com
> <http://40mail.gmail.com>
> >     <http://40mail.gmail.com <http://40mail.gmail.com>>
> <http://40mail.gmail.com <http://40mail.gmail.com>

> >     <http://40mail.gmail.com <http://40mail.gmail.com>>>
> >      >> > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/> <https://
> > groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/ <http://

> groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/>>
> >      >> CAB- <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ <https://

> groups.google.com/d/msgid/> <https://
> > groups.google.com/d/msgid/ <http://groups.google.com/d/msgid/>>

> >      >> standardebooks/CAB->
> >      >> >
> >      >>
> iOwrY2Bc3Gqz3vt2t15_ymvUn9G6B5QYcYfz5MpCvoq9ojg%40mail.gmail.com
> <http://40mail.gmail.com>
> >     <http://40mail.gmail.com <http://40mail.gmail.com>>
> <http://40mail.gmail.com <http://40mail.gmail.com>

> >     <http://40mail.gmail.com <http://40mail.gmail.com>>>?

> >      >> > utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
> >      >>
> >      >> --
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> standardebook...@googlegroups.com
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> d/ <https://groups.google.com/d/>

> >     <https://groups.google.com/d/ <https://groups.google.com/d/>>
> >      >> msgid/standardebooks/86c89783-24e2-4b96-8ebf-
> >      >> eebe9b5d7d34n%40googlegroups.com

> <http://40googlegroups.com> <http://40googlegroups.com

> <http://40googlegroups.com>>
> >     <https://
> >      >> groups.google.com/d/msgid/ <http://groups.google.com/d/

> msgid/> <http://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ <http://
> groups.google.com/d/msgid/>>
> >      >> standardebooks/86c89783-24e2-4b96-8ebf-
> >      >> eebe9b5d7d34n%40googlegroups.com
> <http://40googlegroups.com> <http://40googlegroups.com

> <http://40googlegroups.com>>?
> >      >> utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
> >      >>
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> <mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com>>.
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> d/msgid/ <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/>

> >     <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ <https://
> groups.google.com/d/msgid/>>

> >      >> standardebooks/3e880cee-836b-4161-a592-
> >      >> ed749164e3f5n%40googlegroups.com
> <http://40googlegroups.com> <http://40googlegroups.com

> <http://40googlegroups.com>>
> >     <https://groups.google.com/d/ <https://groups.google.com/d/>
> <https://groups.google.com/d/ <https://groups.google.com/d/>>
> >      >> msgid/standardebooks/3e880cee-836b-4161-a592-

> >      >> ed749164e3f5n%40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>?
> >     utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <http://40googlegroups.com

> <http://40googlegroups.com>?
> >     utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.
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> <mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com>>.
> >      >> To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/

> d/msgid/ <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/>

> >     <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ <https://
> groups.google.com/d/msgid/>>
> >      >> standardebooks/CAB-iOwq7pqE%2Br0NQT2PGHAuHFMuC-DSXWHSfb3-
> >      >> s%3D1xAA9%3DTxQ%40mail.gmail.com

> <http://40mail.gmail.com> <http://40mail.gmail.com
> <http://40mail.gmail.com>>

> >     <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ <https://
> groups.google.com/d/msgid/> <https://groups.google.com/d/ <https://
> groups.google.com/d/>
> >     msgid/>
> >      >> standardebooks/CAB-iOwq7pqE%2Br0NQT2PGHAuHFMuC-DSXWHSfb3-
> >      >> s%3D1xAA9%3DTxQ%40mail.gmail.com <http://40mail.gmail.com>?
> >     utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <http://40mail.gmail.com

> <http://40mail.gmail.com>?
> >     utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.
> >      >
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> msgid/ <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/>

> >     <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ <https://
> groups.google.com/d/msgid/>>

> >      > standardebooks/34E7235B-D51B-41B7-
> B69C-0A0C7D9B317C%40bu.edu <http://40bu.edu>
> >     <http://40bu.edu <http://40bu.edu>> <https://
> >      > groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/34E7235B-
> D51B-41B7- <http://groups.google.com/d/msgid/
> standardebooks/34E7235B-D51B-41B7->
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> D51B-41B7- <http://groups.google.com/d/msgid/
> standardebooks/34E7235B-D51B-41B7->>
> >      > B69C-0A0C7D9B317C%40bu.edu?
> utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <http://40bu.edu?
> utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
> >     <http://40bu.edu?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer

> <http://40bu.edu?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>>.
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> > To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/
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> > standardebooks/31fd367a-1ac0-4564-
> b4f9-0fef3e3a9f26n%40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>
> > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/
> standardebooks/31fd367a-1ac0-4564- <https://groups.google.com/d/
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> cacbbefe4d3a%40standardebooks.org <https://groups.google.com/d/
> msgid/standardebooks/7bc412ff-a468-43e8-82bf-
> cacbbefe4d3a%40standardebooks.org>.

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> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/CAB-
> iOwpO5RGRVBfuzTOVa8FSaYmyMqg3rdr%3DsORHk5F8uj12pw%40mail.gmail.com?
> utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.

[Weijia Cheng]

The watercolor is not in house style so I have to nix that one. The vase painting looks good if you want to use it.

[David]

You didn't provide a link to that Chinnery painting, and the PEM site doesn't make searching its collection very easy. It's possible there is a "PD Proof" for it, and some SE producers are quite adept at finding them. If you'd like some help, do post a link. :)

David / Fife, UK

On Thursday, 12 June 2025 at 00:26:14 UTC+1 Marshall wrote:

... I looked for European artists painting landscapes of China in the European style and found George Chinnery (1774-1852).  There's a painting of his which seems absolutely perfect, but the museum housing it (Peabody Essex) doesn't appear to provide CC0 images of its artwork (cry cry).

 

[Marshall Bockrath]

Fair point, David!  This is the Chinnery painting I would like to use if there were a PD proof (and if it is actually the right style, and I could get a decent crop, etc): https://visualizingcultures.mit.edu/rise_fall_canton_04/gallery_places/pages/cwM_1834_M17053_Chinnery.htm  

If you or someone else feels like taking a look I would be grateful, but if not then I'm happy to proceed with the vase.

Thanks!

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[David Reimer]

Well, I found a couple full and fairly well illustrated articles on
Chinnery from the PD period, but neither featured that precise
painting.

FWIW, I think the "vase" cover is very pleasing, so long as it's
suitable for this book!

[Weijia Cheng]

I assigned the vase painting to this book. Let me know if anything changes.

[Marshall Bockrath]

Thanks! I noticed my crop included some of the top painting edge and was going to recrop, but I assume that doesn't matter for painting assignment etc?

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[Marshall Bockrath]

I've been otherwise occupied, but am trying to move on to the OPF, imprint, and colophon.  I'd noticed when running `se lint` earlier that many of the complaints were about "Variable not replaced with value."  Is there some literal variable-replacement tooling I'm failing to find, or are these just placeholders I should be manually replacing individually?

Thanks!

[Weijia Cheng]

Those "variables" are placeholders that you manually fill in when you get to the colophon, imprint, and metadata.

[Marshall Bockrath]

Hi Weijia -- Alex had to give me a poke, and I do apologize for the long silence, but I believe this is ready for your review.  Thanks!

[Weijia Cheng]

Lukas will be the reviewer. As the manager I am responsible for answering questions that come up before the review process.

[Lukas Bystricky]

Thanks for the reminder Weijia. Hopefully I'll get to this either today or tomorrow.

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[Marshall Bockrath]

Oh, I see. Thank you both!

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[Lukas Bystricky]

Very nice work Marshall! Very impressive for a first production. I've filed a few issues, nothing major.

[Lukas Bystricky]

Alright Alex, this is ready for you.

[Alex Cabal]

Looks very good Marshall, I've one ahead and released it. Thanks!

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