CC0 and CC "PD" again (National Museum in Warsaw)

[David]

I'm aware this comes up with unwelcome regularity... :/ But I'd like to check on a(nother) possible exception to the "CC0 ONLY" rule.

The National Museum in Warsaw explicitly declares works (images) to be in the "Public Domain" (see any example in the PD filter results). On the page of such works is the "slashed c" symbol, which is the Creative Commons "public domain mark", so explained on the same page as CC0. The NMW PD license link goes to the Polish Wikipedia page explaining "public domain" in Poland. Meanwhile, the equivalent "Public Domain Mark" page in the lang:en Wikipedia notes that this symbol "is recommended to be used only for works that are likely free from any copyright restrictions worldwide", citing a CC source for that notice.

As far as I can see, this pretty much matches an exception that Alex has granted before, and I'm wondering whether this is another such case. I'm alert to the possibility that it may not be!  But if we could get a ruling on this case of the NMW, that would be a real help.

Many thanks!

David / Fife, UK

[Alex Cabal]

I don't think a symbol is enough. An explicit CC0 license is required.

On 9/13/22 4:24 AM, David wrote:
> I'm aware this comes up with unwelcome regularity... :/ But I'd like to
> check on a(nother) possible exception to the "CC0 ONLY" rule.
>
> The National Museum in Warsaw explicitly declares works (images) to be
> in the "Public Domain" (see any example in the PD filter results

> <https://cyfrowe.mnw.art.pl/en/catalog?filter=JTdCJTIyY29weXJpZ2h0cyUyMjolN0IlMjJuYW1lJTIyOiUyMmNvcHlyaWdodHMlMjIsJTIydmFsdWUlMjI6JTVCJTdCJTIyaWQlMjI6MjkxNDYsJTIydGV4dCUyMjolMjJQVUJMSUMlMjBET01BSU4lMjIsJTIydGl0bGUlMjI6JTIyUFVCTElDJTIwRE9NQUlOJTIyJTdEJTVELCUyMmRlc2MlMjI6bnVsbCwlMjJhY3RpdmUlMjI6dHJ1ZSU3RCU3RA%3D%3D>).

> On the page of such works is the "slashed c" symbol, which is the
> Creative Commons "public domain mark", so explained on the same page as

> CC0 <https://creativecommons.org/share-your-work/public-domain/>. The

> NMW PD license link goes to the Polish Wikipedia page explaining "public
> domain" in Poland. Meanwhile, the equivalent "Public Domain Mark" page

> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Domain_Mark> in the lang:en

> Wikipedia notes that this symbol "is recommended to be used only for

> works that are likely free from any copyright restrictions /worldwide/",

> citing a CC source for that notice.
>
> As far as I can see, this pretty much matches an exception that Alex has
> granted

> <https://groups.google.com/g/standardebooks/c/IMaWpoJxg94/m/xNtHOpByBAAJ> before,

> and I'm wondering whether this is another such case. I'm alert to the
> possibility that it may not be!  But if we could get a ruling on this
> case of the NMW, that would be a real help.
>
> Many thanks!
>
> David / Fife, UK
>

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[Weijia Cheng]

Also, if you look at the explanation of why the Nationalmuseum was allowed, it was because the museum explicitly dedicated the images (that is to say, the digital derivative works they created) to the public domain. You can see on their rights page that they declare explicitly, "Nationalmuseum does not consider that a new copyright emerges for the reproduction [of a painting]." A lot of the time, these generic public domain labels on museum websites basically boil down to "we think that this is probably public domain, but we're not guaranteeing anything explicitly," which is much more wishy-washy than what the Nationalmuseum wording is. The wording of the CC0 license is basically a more formal, codified version of the Nationalmuseum's waiver.

[Weijia Cheng]

Not a lawyer though; that's just my layman understanding of IP protections and why our image policy is what it is. If you do happen to find any museums with an explicit CC0 license though, definitely submit it to the mailing list and it can get vetted and added to the manual! I do like to search for those occasionally and I've found a few in the last couple of months.

[David]

Thanks for these replies. It's a wee shame the NMW couldn't have been more explicit, but it seems copyright in Poland has a number of quirks. It's good to have clarification in this case. (The hunt for PD proof is on for any of their images, then....sigh!)

David / Fife, UK

[David]

@Weijia - since you're willing :) could you evaluate these, and see about having them added to the manual? I've got three....

1. Thorvaldsens Museum, Copenhagen + Sample image (Click [CC]0 symbol under the image to be taken to the CC0 license text)

2. Musea Brugge, Belgium + Sample image (Scroll down to "Copyright" for explicit "Creative Commons Zero licence")

3. Yale Center for British Art (amazing collection!) + Sample image (click [CC]0/PD icon under image for explicit CC0 license text)

See what you think - hope this helps!

David / Fife, UK

[Lukas Bystricky]

I don't expect this to be approved but since we're on the topic already, the Rijksmuseum Twenthe collection says the following: "If an image has a download button, you’re welcome to use it for any purpose you like." That sounds a lot like CC0, and the wording is unambiguous, stronger/more specific than just saying "public domain". Unfortunately I can't find the CC0 symbol anywhere. (Full disclosure, in case it's not obvious: I found an image I'd like use in their collection.)

[Alex Cabal]

We require CC0 without exception precisely to avoid the "but it kind of
sort of sounds like they might be suggesting that it could be PD" arguments

On 9/13/22 3:21 PM, Lukas Bystricky wrote:
> I don't expect this to be approved but since we're on the topic already,
> the Rijksmuseum Twenthe collection

> <https://collectie.rijksmuseumtwenthe.nl/english> says the following:

> "If an image has a download button, you’re welcome to use it for any

> purpose you like." That /sounds/ a lot like CC0, and the wording is

> unambiguous, stronger/more specific than just saying "public domain".
> Unfortunately I can't find the CC0 symbol anywhere. (Full disclosure, in
> case it's not obvious: I found an image I'd like use in their collection.)
>
> On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 8:46:53 PM UTC+2 David wrote:
>
> @Weijia - since you're willing :) could you evaluate these, and see
> about having them added to the manual? I've got three....
>
> 1. Thorvaldsens Museum

> <https://kataloget.thorvaldsensmuseum.dk/en/results?q=&level%5B%5D=B>,
> Copenhagen + Sample image
> <https://kataloget.thorvaldsensmuseum.dk/en/B47> (Click [CC]0 symbol

> under the image to be taken to the CC0 license text)
>

> 2. Musea Brugge <https://www.museabrugge.be/en/collections/browse>,
> Belgium + Sample image
> <https://collectie.museabrugge.be/en/collection/work/id/0000_gro0181_i>

> (Scroll down to "Copyright" for explicit "Creative Commons Zero
> licence")
>
> 3. Yale Center for British Art

> <https://collections.britishart.yale.edu/?utf8=%E2%9C%93&f%5Bcollection_ss%5D%5B%5D=Paintings+and+Sculpture&range%5BearliestDate_is%5D%5Bbegin%5D=1614&range%5BearliestDate_is%5D%5Bend%5D=1900&search_field=all_fields&q=>

> (amazing collection!) + Sample image

> <https://collections.britishart.yale.edu/catalog/tms:1348> (click

> [CC]0/PD icon under image for explicit CC0 license text)
>
> See what you think - hope this helps!
>
> David / Fife, UK
>
>
> On Tuesday, 13 September 2022 at 16:31:08 UTC+1 weijia... wrote:
>
> Not a lawyer though; that's just my layman understanding of IP
> protections and why our image policy is what it is. If you do

> happen to find any museums with an /explicit/ CC0 license

> though, definitely submit it to the mailing list and it can get
> vetted and added to the manual! I do like to search for those
> occasionally and I've found a few in the last couple of months.
>

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[Lukas Bystricky]

Ok, just thought I'd check. The wording seems clear to me, but of course I'm not a lawyer and wouldn't be one getting into trouble. 

[Weijia Cheng]

Thanks David, all of those look good as CC0 museums to me, but Alex is the final authority on the image policy so I've put in a PR for those three museums. If Alex merges the PR you can consider those museums officially cleared.

[Alex Cabal]

Those look good, thanks. They'll appear in the next version of the manual.

On 9/13/22 9:27 PM, Weijia Cheng wrote:
> Thanks David, all of those look good as CC0 museums to me, but Alex is
> the final authority on the image policy so I've put in a PR

> <https://github.com/standardebooks/manual/pull/118> for those three

> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/b4bae984-d959-44f8-8147-25500189850dn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/b4bae984-d959-44f8-8147-25500189850dn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.

>
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