H89-A Beeps Twice, no screen

[Conner Burns]

Hello all,

My rainstorm dumpster H89-A won't show anything on the screen. The first smoke test I did showed a very faint pattern ( screen all one character, looks like a memory error?), then died once the tantalum at C103 blew. The heater still glows, faintly. I have replaced C103 and C102 with 1uF, 50v tants. Now, I flip it on and I get the fan and two beeps, faint heater glow that doesn't change with the brightness knob around back, and no picture at all. The PSU seems to be outputting all the correct voltages, within limits according to my multimeter.

Any advice?

Thank you,

Conner

[Douglas Miller]

It sounds to me like the CPU board is functional, at least enough to send a BEL character to the terminal board (second beep). Also, the terminal board seems to be functioning enough to respond to the BEL.

Maybe try depressing the OFFLINE button and confirm that you can type characters and see them on the screen. Be sure you return the OFFLINE button to the "up" position again. (confirms terminal board is functioning)

Then maybe check your CPU board dipswitches to make sure that auto-boot is not selected. I'm not sure if that by-passes the normal prompt and goes straight to trying to boot.

Otherwise, maybe the monitor ROM (or H17 floppy ROM) is bad/corrupted. You might need to burn new copies of those. You could also have bad RAM that prevents the monitor from getting started.

It's certainly possible that more tantalums have blown, so there could be some more-subtle failure preventing the monitor from getting to the part where it displays the prompt. Also, check what version of the monitor ROM you have.

That's my 2 cents, adjusted for inflation.

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[Joseph Travis]

If you get 2 beeps at power up, it is very likely the CPU & TLB (Terminal Logic Board) are both fine.  Double check all cable connections to the video board.

Turn up the brightness control on the back. Do you see a raster of any kind? No: check the video cabling from the TLB to the brightness pot and to the video board. Still nothing, check voltages following the troubleshooting guide in the manual.

Good luck,

Joe

--

[Conner Burns]

I've made headway! The CRT now displays the image below at boot. It can boot into RAM test from dip switch, and passes those fine. The odd star thing doesn't blink, but the cursor does. No characters show on screen with or without offline depressed, and the only thing that effects this screen is pressing multiple keys and the space bar (think  desperate keyboard mash) will reset the timer and get rid of the odd star thing in the corner. The cursor still blinks.

Any ideas? Bad character ROM?

[Glenn Roberts]

I’ve seen “~” like that on power on.  I assume it’s junk received by the UART.  What’s displaying the on screen clock? Is there a built in clock of some sort?

 

If you don’t see anything with “OFF LINE” depressed that’s indicative of a problem in the terminal function – it should echo back what you type.

 

I’ve never done the RAM tests . are those on screen displays?  If so then clearly the computer and terminal ARE talking?

 

From: se...@googlegroups.com <se...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Conner Burns
Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2020 6:44 PM
To: SEBHC <se...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [sebhc] H89-A Beeps Twice, no screen

 

I've made headway! The CRT now displays the image below at boot. It can boot into RAM test from dip switch, and passes those fine. The odd star thing doesn't blink, but the cursor does. No characters show on screen with or without offline depressed, and the only thing that effects this screen is pressing multiple keys and the space bar (think  desperate keyboard mash) will reset the timer and get rid of the odd star thing in the corner. The cursor still blinks.

Any ideas? Bad character ROM?

On Friday, November 27, 2020 at 3:19:14 PM UTC-8 Joe Travis N6YPC wrote:

If you get 2 beeps at power up, it is very likely the CPU & TLB (Terminal Logic Board) are both fine.  Double check all cable connections to the video board.

 

Turn up the brightness control on the back. Do you see a raster of any kind? No: check the video cabling from the TLB to the brightness pot and to the video board. Still nothing, check voltages following the troubleshooting guide in the manual.

 

Good luck,

Joe

 

On Fri, Nov 27, 2020, 5:31 PM Conner Burns <poodb...@gmail.com> wrote:

 

Hello all,

 

My rainstorm dumpster H89-A won't show anything on the screen. The first smoke test I did showed a very faint pattern ( screen all one character, looks like a memory error?), then died once the tantalum at C103 blew. The heater still glows, faintly. I have replaced C103 and C102 with 1uF, 50v tants. Now, I flip it on and I get the fan and two beeps, faint heater glow that doesn't change with the brightness knob around back, and no picture at all. The PSU seems to be outputting all the correct voltages, within limits according to my multimeter.

 

Any advice?

 

Thank you,

Conner

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[Conner Burns]

That 'clock' is just a timer counting up from boot. I assume the TLB and CPU board are working, possibly an IC issue...

The RAM tests are pictured below. It's triggered at boot by switching SW501 dip switch #5 to 0.

I also narrowed down the key mash that resets the timer, it's 'J K N M SPACE' all at once.

[Glenn Roberts]

Clearly the Terminal board works and the CPU can talk to it.

 

My guess is a bad keyboard or keyboard encoder. Failure is not uncommon. A while back (2012) Mark Garlanger found a source for the encoder and coordinated a group order. Not sure if that’s still available out there.

 

https://groups.google.com/g/sebhc/c/WAGZnW3_4R0/m/rzvxy0F0z0kJ

 

might be easier to locate a junker H19 and swap parts, or maybe someone here can help.

 

• Glenn

 

 

From: se...@googlegroups.com <se...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Conner Burns
Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2020 9:03 PM
To: SEBHC <se...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [sebhc] H89-A Beeps Twice, no screen

 

That 'clock' is just a timer counting up from boot. I assume the TLB and CPU board are working, possibly an IC issue...

The RAM tests are pictured below. It's triggered at boot by switching SW501 dip switch #5 to 0.

 

I also narrowed down the key mash that resets the timer, it's 'J K N M SPACE' all at once.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sebhc/953a6c7a-f6d5-44c3-9bc4-de680931712an%40googlegroups.com.

[Joseph Travis]

The clock display at the bottom right makes me believe you may have what is known as the Watzman (sp?) ROM on the TLB (Terminal Logic Board). Look for the documentation on SEBHC. I believe the DIP switch settings are different from the Heathkit standard/stock ROM. You might want to verify this before going further.

Are you still getting 2 beeps at power up? The first beep is from the TLB, the second is from the CPU board sending a ^G (bell) character before the H: prompt.

Joe

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sebhc/b939a635-bb16-4a95-8575-3337be2e9434n%40googlegroups.com.

[Kenneth L. Owen]

Hi Conner,

 

Based on what I have read on this between you and Glenn and by looking at the image of the screen, I tend to believe that Joseph Travis may be on to something in thinking you may have a modification to add the Watzman ROM.

 

• ken

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Conner Burns
Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2020 9:02 PM
To: SEBHC
Subject: Re: [sebhc] H89-A Beeps Twice, no screen

 

That 'clock' is just a timer counting up from boot. I assume the TLB and CPU board are working, possibly an IC issue...

The RAM tests are pictured below. It's triggered at boot by switching SW501 dip switch #5 to 0.

 

I also narrowed down the key mash that resets the timer, it's 'J K N M SPACE' all at once.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sebhc/953a6c7a-f6d5-44c3-9bc4-de680931712an%40googlegroups.com.

 

[Conner Burns]

Sorry for the formatting, mobile isn't ideal for email.

Joe, my system does still double beep.

Ken and Joe, how would I go about confirming the modified Wazman (sp?) ROM on the TLB? And what would the dip switch settings be for it? I can't seem to find I formation on it on the SEBHC github site, can anyone link it?

Much gratitude,

Conner B

[Mark Garlanger]

Interesting, since the memory test display is fine, it shows that both the terminal and cpu are up and functioning, and that the baud rate on the two boards are matching.

I've seen when the CPU is too fast initializing, it starts sending characters before the terminal is ready. What happens when you press the Right-shift and the 'RESET' key?

Mark

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sebhc/a201265b-ebad-4427-a2fa-ea22f7304a26n%40googlegroups.com.

[Terry Gulczynski]

I've attached the User Manual info for the Watzman ROM.

Terry

On 12/28/2020 12:08 AM, Conner Burns wrote:
> Sorry for the formatting, mobile isn't ideal for email.
>
> Joe, my system does still double beep.
>
> Ken and Joe, how would I go about confirming the modified Wazman (sp?)
> ROM on the TLB? And what would the dip switch settings be for it? I
> can't seem to find I formation on it on the SEBHC github site, can
> anyone link it?
>
> Much gratitude,
> Conner B
>
> On Sunday, December 27, 2020 at 7:40:47 PM UTC-8 ken wrote:
>
> Hi Conner,
>

> __ __

>
> Based on what I have read on this between you and Glenn and by
> looking at the image of the screen, I tend to believe that Joseph
> Travis may be on to something in thinking you may have a
> modification to add the Watzman ROM.
>

> __ __
>
> * ken
>
> __ __
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows 10
>
> __ __
>
> *From: *Conner Burns
> *Sent: *Sunday, December 27, 2020 9:02 PM
> *To: *SEBHC
> *Subject: *Re: [sebhc] H89-A Beeps Twice, no screen
>
> __ __

>
> That 'clock' is just a timer counting up from boot. I assume the TLB
> and CPU board are working, possibly an IC issue...
>
> The RAM tests are pictured below. It's triggered at boot by
> switching SW501 dip switch #5 to 0.
>

> __ __

>
> I also narrowed down the key mash that resets the timer, it's 'J K N
> M SPACE' all at once.
>

> On Sunday, December 27, 2020 at 5:49:28 PM UTC-8 Glenn wrote:
>
> I’ve seen “~” like that on power on.  I assume it’s junk
> received by the UART.  What’s displaying the on screen clock? Is
> there a built in clock of some sort?
>
> If you don’t see anything with “OFF LINE” depressed that’s
> indicative of a problem in the terminal function – it should
> echo back what you type.
>
> I’ve never done the RAM tests . are those on screen displays?
> If so then clearly the computer and terminal ARE talking?
>

> *From:* se...@googlegroups.com <se...@googlegroups.com> *On
> Behalf Of *Conner Burns
> *Sent:* Sunday, December 27, 2020 6:44 PM
> *To:* SEBHC <se...@googlegroups.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [sebhc] H89-A Beeps Twice, no screen

>
> I've made headway! The CRT now displays the image below at boot.
> It can boot into RAM test from dip switch, and passes those
> fine. The odd star thing doesn't blink, but the cursor does. No
> characters show on screen with or without offline depressed, and
> the only thing that effects this screen is pressing multiple
> keys and the space bar (think  desperate keyboard mash) will
> reset the timer and get rid of the odd star thing in the corner.
> The cursor still blinks.
>
> Any ideas? Bad character ROM?
>

> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sebhc/f47600df-1ff8-4d4e-811d-33d320dcd972n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.

>
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> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sebhc/b939a635-bb16-4a95-8575-3337be2e9434n%40googlegroups.com
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sebhc/b939a635-bb16-4a95-8575-3337be2e9434n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.

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[Glenn Roberts]

Do we have the two ROM images (keyboard + code) anywhere? I thought they were on Les' site but don't see them. Also Mark has an entry for 885-1221 in his HUG list but no data.

Would be good to capture the ROM images plus this User Manual in one place!

I see Les has Lee Hart's "SUPERSET" ROMs & doc's, plus "Super-19" so there are at least three ROM upgrade possibilities for the '19/'89 - any comments on the relative merits? If I wanted to install one which one's "best"? of most value to me would be higher baud rate and "flicker free" refresh (e.g. for games). I presume there's benefit also to upgrading to 4Mhz

> -----Original Message-----
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[Conner Burns]

Thank you Terry! When I get home, I am going to take a better look and see what I can do.

Mark, R Shift + Reset doesn't do anything.

So far, I've had phenomenal luck with this trash-picked machine. I've only had to replace a few caps and re-solder the brightness knob on back, so I am holding out hope that nothing serious is the matter.

[Terry Gulczynski]

Glenn,

Are you referring to the Watzman Keyboard + Code?

If yes, I have it. I'm absolutely certain I pulled it from Les' site a
long while back, but you're right - it doesn't seem to be there now.

I have what I think is a full package for the Watzman ROM, which
includes a note that says (in part):

> I have no problems with this material being distributed in any form as long
> as I am given credit as the source of this software.
>
> Barry Watzman
> Wat...@neo.rr.com

So I might have gotten it elsewhere, but it has been a LONG time. I've
zipped the individual files and attached...


Terry

[Terry Gulczynski]

Glenn,

I can't really say which is 'Best' - I have the SuperSet in two machines
and none of the other packages. SuperSet is fairly 'Super' (far more
'Super' than I ever use) but I found the video RAM timing requirements
to be quite difficult to satisfy.

And if you don't satisfy them, the display will be unusable. (Intel
P2114 RAM chips work well - nothing else I could find worked. Good luck
on finding those!)

4MHz Terminal CPU clock? Maybe. I'm running @ 3MHz and it keeps up
with 19.2Kbaud without a problem, so 4MHz probably wouldn't do me much
(if any) good. (And that's with the H89 main CPU running @ 12MHz.)

The two boards are baud rate limited in data transfer ability, so after
a certain point, a faster terminal CPU won't do anything to help the
data transfer.

For those H19 ROM packages that DO allow 38.4Kbaud, a terminal CPU
increase to 4MHz would likely be a very good idea, but the H89 would
ALSO need a ROM patch to match that baud rate. (As would the H8 with a
modified H19.)

(And then you would have to modify/patch EVERY boot disk, too, since
they also set the baud rate based on the original switch settings.)

With the H89s, I've gone so far as to create a new Boot ROM that uses
higher baud rates and removed the code from CP/M that initializes the
terminal UART (the ROM does it, so the OS doesn't have to.)

HDOS uses would have to do the same thing. Or maybe the 'space bar'
thing with a new disk will cover the higher baud rate.


Regards,

Terry

[Conner Burns]

I looked, and yes it is the Watzman/myH-19 ROM on U437 and Key30 Master ROM on U445. I double checked jumpers and switches, and the TLB is set correctly.

[Glenn Roberts]

Conner: can you say more about how you found this machine? Always interesting to hear the “rescue” stories!

 

From: se...@googlegroups.com <se...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Conner Burns

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[Conner Burns]

A good friend found it outside the dumpsters at his apartment, and it had been sitting in the rain for a couple of days. The only hint I have is the build date, January of '82, so I assume it was a holiday gift in 1981. Not much of a background otherwise, sadly.

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[Dave McGuire]

On 12/28/20 10:15 PM, Conner Burns wrote:
> A good friend found it outside the dumpsters at his apartment, and it
> had been sitting in the rain for a couple of days. The only hint I have
> is the build date, January of '82, so I assume it was a holiday gift in
> 1981. Not much of a background otherwise, sadly.

Wow. What kind of a nutjob would put something like that in the
trash? Thirty seconds' worth of googling will show that it has value,
both intellectual and cash.

It's great that your friend spotted it, and that you're able to give
it a good home. It's even better that you've made such progress with it.

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA

[Glenn Roberts]

If Shift-RESET doesn’t do anything that would seem to point to a mechanical problem with the keyboard since those keys are directly hard wired into Z80 reset logic gates.

The new information that this machine sat out in the rain would seem to be critical as well!

Conner: what have you done to ensure that there’s no water or residue in the keyboard and to generally examine it, clean & test it?

Sent from my iPad

On Dec 28, 2020, at 11:33 AM, Conner Burns <poodb...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Mark Garlanger]

Not new info, his first message mentioned rainstorm dumpster H-89.

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 29, 2020, at 5:04 AM, Glenn Roberts <glenn.f...@gmail.com> wrote:

If Shift-RESET doesn’t do anything that would seem to point to a mechanical problem with the keyboard since those keys are directly hard wired into Z80 reset logic gates.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sebhc/C0C25411-5EE5-4016-B677-888F33489FF0%40gmail.com.

[Glenn Roberts]

Sorry missed that… ☹

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[Joseph Travis]

Hi Conner,

'Sorry I've been outta the loop for awhile.  I was outta town and didn't bring a computer with me.

When the LARGE photo was included in the thread, the type was far too small to be read on my

cell phone.

It seems that the thread took a tangent... getting back to the matter at hand, it appears the TLB

and the CPU boards are communicating fine.  I hope that you allowed the memory test to run all

the way thru 255 and rollover.  That would confirm the CPU memory is OK.

As mentioned previously, pressing R. Shift and Reset simultaneously should force a reset and

you should hear 1 beep.

The one thing that hasn't been tested or otherwise verified to be working correctly is the TLB

RAM.  If you don't have any spares / replacements for those chips, try swapping them and see

if anything changes.  If so, one or more may be bad.

Good luck,

Joe

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