Final list for the H19 (H89) Keyboard Encoder Order.

[Mark Garlanger]

I meant to place the order last week, but I will order it on Monday, below is the final list and quantities that I have for everyone. Let me know right away if anything is wrong.

Joe Piche	2
George Farris	2
Joe McGlone	2
Glenn Roberts	2
Jack Rubin	3
Terry Gulczynski	2
Ken Owen	2
Steve Shumaker	2
Chris Elmquist	2
Todd Goodman	4
Mark Garlanger	4
Thomas ?(from Germany)	2
Total	29

Mark

[John Frankle]

Hi,

 

Sorry for the late decision, but would you put me down for 1 (one). That will make a perfect 30 total.

 

Thanks,

 

John Frankle

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No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2441/5359 - Release Date: 10/28/12

[Mark Garlanger]

Update on the order, it was delayed due to the problems with Hurricane Sandy mess on the east coast, but was shipped today. So it looks like I should receive it at either the end of this week, or beginning of next. I'll let you guys know when it arrives.

Mark

[Mark Garlanger]

Hi Guys,

  The order arrived on Friday. So 30 parts @ $12 ea. Shipping/Insurance (cheapest they offered) was $25.05.  So roughly $13/ chip. I still need to buy some padded envelopes to ship these, plus shipping fees, paypal fees.. I'll probably have to place some in small boxes, since some are placed on anti-static foam. So for shipments to the U.S. I'm estimating it a $13/chip + $4 per order shipping/packing/paypal/etc. So 1 - $17, 2 - $30, 3 - $43, 4 - $56.  I think only two of you are out of the U.S., one in Canada and one in Germany. I have no idea what the shipping costs will be. Let me know if you have an estimate, otherwise, we may want to overshoot the price, and I can refund the difference, that way there wouldn't be a second paypal fee to make up any shortage.

If you are going to use paypal, do not send it to this email, but use "fin-acct-pp <<at>> garlanger <<dot>> com" - that is my paypal account.

If you want to mail a check mail it to me at:

2640 Henley Dr.
Round Rock, TX 78681

And please shot me an email so I can account for everyone.

Thanks,
  Mark

[Lee Hart]

On 11/11/2012 3:46 PM, Mark Garlanger wrote:
> Hi Guys, The order arrived on Friday...

That's great news. Have you tried one in an H19/H89 yet?
--
Results! Why man, I have gotten a lot of results. I know several
thousand things that won't work. -- Thomas A. Edison
--
Lee A. Hart http://www.sunrise-ev.com/LeesEVs leea...@earthlink.net

[Mark Garlanger]

Yes, I tried it on an H19, and all the keys seemed fine. The chips look identical except for the date code. On the one I had pulled from the H19, it was 913, and the one I put in was 911.

I had asked about the remarking, and they had said that this was a very low quantity chip, and they weren't aware of any remarking with this item.

Mark

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[Mark Garlanger]

BTW, thanks very much for pointing out exactly which version of the chip we needed, it would have be awful if the keys decoding was messed up.

Mark

[Lee Hart]

On 11/11/2012 5:52 PM, Mark Garlanger wrote:
> Yes, I tried it on an H19, and all the keys seemed fine. The chips look
> identical except for the date code. On the one I had pulled from the
> H19, it was 913, and the one I put in was 911.

Excellent! Great to hear you got the right chips. I was worried that
people might list versions of it with different suffixes, and thus
different programming. Suffixes on chips don't usually matter -- they
just specify things like temperature range or plastic vs ceramic. But in
this case, it's important!

--
Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has! -- Margaret Mead

[Chris Elmquist]

On Sunday (11/11/2012 at 07:37PM -0600), Lee Hart wrote:
> On 11/11/2012 5:52 PM, Mark Garlanger wrote:
> >Yes, I tried it on an H19, and all the keys seemed fine. The chips look
> >identical except for the date code. On the one I had pulled from the
> >H19, it was 913, and the one I put in was 911.
>
> Excellent! Great to hear you got the right chips. I was worried that
> people might list versions of it with different suffixes, and thus
> different programming. Suffixes on chips don't usually matter --
> they just specify things like temperature range or plastic vs
> ceramic. But in this case, it's important!

Yes-- I was worried about the same. Glad it worked out and thanks for
the effort Mark!

I'll PayPal ASAP.

Chris
--
Chris Elmquist

[steve shumaker]

payment on the way via paypal


Steve

> *From:* Mark Garlanger <mailto:garl...@gmail.com>
> *To:* se...@googlegroups.com <mailto:se...@googlegroups.com>
> *Sent:* Sunday, October 28, 2012 4:04 PM
> *Subject:* [sebhc] Final list for the H19 (H89) Keyboard

> Encoder Order.
>
> I meant to place the order last week, but I will order it
> on Monday, below is the final list and quantities that I
> have for everyone. Let me know right away if anything is
> wrong.
>
> Joe Piche 2
> George Farris 2
> Joe McGlone 2
> Glenn Roberts 2
> Jack Rubin 3
> Terry Gulczynski 2
> Ken Owen 2
> Steve Shumaker 2
> Chris Elmquist 2
> Todd Goodman 4
> Mark Garlanger 4
> Thomas ?(from Germany)
> 2
> Total 29
>
>
>
> Mark
>
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[George Farris]

Hi Mark,

I'm the one in Canada and have ordered 2 so this is what I figure if you
send it in a padded envelope via US Post.

2 x $13.00 = $26.00
Canada post estimates surface shipping at $8.52, $10.10 and $18.66
From Mill Bay to Texas

I'll Paypal you $45.00 to be on the safe side.

Address is:

George Farris
2570 Seaview Road
Mill Bay, BC, Canada
V0R 2P1

Many thanks
George

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[Mark Garlanger]

Chips went out on Wednesday, so if I've received your payment, it'll hopefully arrive tomorrow or Monday. George shipping was less than expected, so I sent back $13. I was unable to 'refund', because paypal said that gifts could not be partially refunded.

Still waiting on payment from:
  Joe Piche - 2   - $30
  Jack Rubin - 3 -  $43
  Thomas ?(from Germany) - 2  -  $45 should easily cover it, and I'll refund once I get the actual price when I ship it.

Ken, as of yesterday's mail, I didn't see you check, yet. If you want to provide me your address, I can send it.


Mark

[Chris Elmquist]

Mark,

Received the chips in yesterday's mail. All looks good and thanks again
for handling this order!

Chris

On Wednesday (11/07/2012 at 07:22PM -0600), Mark Garlanger wrote:
> Update on the order, it was delayed due to the problems with Hurricane
> Sandy mess on the east coast, but was shipped today. So it looks like I
> should receive it at either the end of this week, or beginning of next.
> I'll let you guys know when it arrives.
>
> Mark

--
Chris Elmquist

[Glenn Roberts]

Received the chips and they look and work great!  another H19 saved by this (it now works fine) and now I’ve got a spare chip (for insurance).  I’ve got to admit I was a skeptic but this worked out great.

 

Thanks Mark!

 

-          Glenn

[jmcg...@windstream.net]

Mark-

 

I received my chips yesterday too.

 

Thanks!

 

Joe

[Mark Garlanger]

Excellent. Glad to see it fixed the problem.

Mark

BTW: These chips were from  icelect.com  They were very helpful and easy to deal with. Definitely a company to keep in mind when needing chips. A quote request I had sent to another company was never even responded to.

[steve shumaker]

OK.. I bit the bullet and used plastic to score the un-built H89A that
was on EPAY. Got back yesterday and was able to open the boxes and
check it out this morning. It's definitely NOT an "un-opened box"
unassembled kit, so there's little collectible value to be gained by
leaving it in it's kit state (plus what fun is that???) but the question
that comes to mind is:

Are there thing that can be/should be done with an un-assembled kit from
an archiving perspective? like perhaps hi res photos of the housing
pieces. Not sure I can get a good 3-D image of the unit but might try
that as well...

thoughts? comments? ideas? Probably won't mess with it until the
holidays but figured I'd ask the group and see what folks think.


Double Score!!

The EPAY ad described it as Heathkit/Zenith Memory Expansion Module.
In the description, it said the manual is for a WHA-11-16 and it was
"new in box" except the photo of the box exterior was *WAY* wrong for a
single H11 memory card - and the estimated shipping cost from southern
CA was $35. They offered it at $99 and no one bid. I suggested they
start at half that and then I'd bid and take my chances. Their response
was to offer it to me as a straight sale via paypal for $50.

The box that arrived contains an H27 Floppy system!

Steve

[Adrian Stoness]

wow :O nice

Steve

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[Glenn Roberts]

That's fantastic steve, I'm sure you'll have a lot of fun building the system.  I'd suggest taking lots of pictures as you unpack and assemble the unit.  Les will probably post some of them on his user pix site:

 

http://www.lesbird.com/sebhc/memberphotos.html

 

Enjoy!

 

- Glenn

--

[steve shumaker]

The H-27 system on examination is basically a pristine factory built
WH-27. there isn't even any dust in the fan filter material. It
doesn't appear to have ever been used. Problem is there's no docs and
no H-11 interface brd.

Anyone here know where I can find the docs? I understand the interface
was unusual with a controller board in the h-27 box but have no idea
what the brd in the H-11 amounted to...


Steve

[Joe]

Put in the payment today plus some extra for cdn shipping.

 

Cheers, Joe

 

From: se...@googlegroups.com [mailto:se...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark Garlanger

Sent: November-16-12 6:20 PM
To: se...@googlegroups.com

[steve shumaker]

Mine made it over the weekend in fine shape. Thanks Mark!

Steve

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[Mark Garlanger]

I'm SO jealous about the H27... ;-)   I had watched that same item and although I could use the memory, I didn't want to pay $100, plus what seemed like an  inflated shipping fee. It was hard to tell in the picture, that it was a huge box. I think I do have some manuals, I'll need to dig through some boxes when I get a chance, but without the controller, I'm not sure what you will be able to do with it.

As for the H89 kit, that same seller offered one earlier and started it at a $600 buy-it-now price which I quickly picked it up. He had done the same with the one I bought - opened the main boxes and took pictures. Did yours come in the original box? After winning it, he mentioned he put everything in a NEW box, I had to tell him that I wanted the original box. Luckily, he still had it. A friend of mine, in Dallas was able to pick up everything and bring it down. He mentioned that the seller was really confused on why someone would want the original, old weak box, instead of the new one he had used.

I've only opened the CPU box so far, but the padding, they used, has totally deteriorated, and is caked on to the circuit board. I'll need to really clean it, but I'm not sure the best way to approach it.

Mark
 

Steve

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[steve shumaker]

After I discovered what I had, I sent the seller an email and we chatted
a bit. it was originally a complete system: H11/H27/H19a/Olivetti KSR
printer.... ya really :) Anyway, she sold the H11 on Ebay about 8
months ago. Which means the interface card went with it. I'm toying
with the idea of seeing if she will forward my contact info to the
buyer... in the forlorn hope that he might consider a brd sale....
Turns out she still had some 4 binders of H11 docs so I made an offer
for everything except the Olivetti printer.... so we'll have some more
H11 docs shortly. (and another H19a for backup)

re the 89, one carton came with an original box inside - suspect from
weight and balance it's the CRT. The second box is clearly a re-pack.
No way to tell if it's all there until I do the parts inventory and I'm
gonna wait ... yup gonna wait...keep saying that :) until I have
time to do it right with pics and all...

looking forward to a almost a full month off at Christmas!


steve

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[Gary L. Messick]

Mark, Steve,

I know I have a set of docs for the H-27. I also have a non-functional H-27 controller (possibly bus drivers). What I do not have is ANY free time at the moment. If you ping me again the first week in Dec., or the third week. I may get a chance to dig them out and answer any questions or maybe scan them.

I can tell you that it's my understanding that the H-27 controller is really just a fancy parallel interface with a boot ROM. It should be too hard to replicate.

Gary

________________________________

From: se...@googlegroups.com on behalf of Mark Garlanger
Sent: Mon 11/19/2012 7:45 PM
To: Gary
Subject: Re: [sebhc] Re: WH-27 was SCORE!!


I'm SO jealous about the H27... ;-) I had watched that same item and although I could use the memory, I didn't want to pay $100, plus what seemed like an inflated shipping fee. It was hard to tell in the picture, that it was a huge box. I think I do have some manuals, I'll need to dig through some boxes when I get a chance, but without the controller, I'm not sure what you will be able to do with it.

As for the H89 kit, that same seller offered one earlier and started it at a $600 buy-it-now price which I quickly picked it up. He had done the same with the one I bought - opened the main boxes and took pictures. Did yours come in the original box? After winning it, he mentioned he put everything in a NEW box, I had to tell him that I wanted the original box. Luckily, he still had it. A friend of mine, in Dallas was able to pick up everything and bring it down. He mentioned that the seller was really confused on why someone would want the original, old weak box, instead of the new one he had used.

I've only opened the CPU box so far, but the padding, they used, has totally deteriorated, and is caked on to the circuit board. I'll need to really clean it, but I'm not sure the best way to approach it.

Mark

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[steve shumaker]

thanks Gary!

What little I've been able to find supports your info about some sort of
parallel interface and a boot ROM. But there seems to be almost nothing
available on the net. The seller of my unit has agreed to contact the
person who won the H11. We'll see what comes of that. I've got
other stuff to do before I tackle this (plus I already have a 3rd party
floppy system for my H11), so it is a long term project but I'll
definitely send you a reminder about the docs in a few weeks.

Steve

[steve shumaker]

Sextant Issue #2 has a fascinating review of the "new" Z100 system by
Charles Floto in which he waxes enthusiastic about the next gen
computer. But there is a strange comment that I've never seen stated
anywhere before:

"Want to run a disk operating system whose source code isn't a deep
secret? Stick around. HDOS 3 is coming."
(See "Sextant" Summer 1982, pg 107)

This is in an article about the "New Zenith Computer Line" (the Z100
series).

Was HDOS 3 targeted at the Z100 at some point? Is there code in there
that no one recognizes?


curious.....



steve

[Glenn Roberts]

I think you've got it with your "waxing enthusiastic" comment. This was probably Floto speculating about the possible, and since one of the z100 processors was an 8085 it may have seemed logical at the time. HDOS was so tied to the h8/h89 hardware architecture that a z100 version would have to be a substantial rewrite. I seem to recall... Did Pat Swayne do an emulator that mapped HDOS syscalls to cp/m equivalents? That would let "well behaved" HDOS programs run on the cp/m side of the z100




Sent from my iPad

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[steve shumaker]

anyone here chasing the H* extender brd up on EPay? Item number
251186001322. Won't compete with someone from here but was thinking
bidding since it *seems* low at the moment..

steve

[steve shumaker]

nice looking H8 up on EPay item 360519376602. Has a C-H8 controller and
DG64K Brd in it.


Steve

[Gregg Chandler]

I was working on HDOS 3.0 at the time we were also architecting the Z-100,
and had an org-0 version up and running without use of ROMs other than for
boot. (My working release number might have been 2.1 or 2.2? HDOS actually
is not "that" H-8/H-89 dependant.) The hardware group had spent nine months
working on the Z-100 boot ROM, however, they had nothing even close to
working. Microsoft was going to port MS-DOS in mid January, if I remember
correctly. As I was intimately familiar with the hardware design, and had
in fact designed part of the graphics and worked with Babu and Mark writing
much of the test code as we prototyped the various aspects of the hardware
design, I stopped working on HDOS 3.0 and wrote the debugger, H-19 emulator,
and the rest of the Z-100 boot ROM in about two weeks over Christmas. Kasik
didn't think it would be possible.

As no one had written any x86 code at Heath/Zenith yet, I pretty much was
breaking new ground all around. I used PL/M to meet the deadline. At a
time when some offices were in trailers, I got a second office where most of
the folks couldn't find me, (a skunk works if you will,) and started coding.
I had critical parts of the Intel MDS that I had ordered to write the PL/M
code delivered to my apartment so that they wouldn't get lost within the
Heath/Zenith bureaucracy at Christmas/New Years. It was probably the best
Christmas present I ever received.(grin) The code was complete in time for
the MS-DOS port in January.

I used the pointy finger for the boot ROM prompt as I had been to a Chicago
Fire soccer game with Dave and returned home with a foam finger. I though
that the prompt should NOT be Z:. It should be graphic. Watzman was upset
that I echoed non-printable characters in the debugger dump as the H-19
checkerboard character rather than '.'. I suggested he could change it
himself. Digital Research would have used the checkerboard if they could
have, but it was not part of the ASCII character set they generally had
access to. I believe we shipped with the checkerboard, as Watzman couldn't
really edit the code.

I had embedded my initials, GC, in the character set as the glyph for the
"DELete" character. I didn't think that anyone would try to send the "DEL"
character to the terminal. To my horror, the early MS-DOS, er... Z-DOS,
builds did echo the "DEL" character, along with the Back Space, Space, ....
Oops. A quick rev of the code fixed that "bug". But I digress...

I think that Floto had been on a tour of the plant while I was off working
on the Z-100 code, we had announced HDOS 3.0, and as they went by my office,
someone might have suggested that because I was off on the Z-100, ...

[Glenn Roberts]

What is the C-H8 controller?


Sent from my iPad

On Nov 23, 2012, at 6:35 PM, steve shumaker <shum...@att.net> wrote:

> nice looking H8 up on EPay item 360519376602. Has a C-H8 controller and DG64K Brd in it.
>
>
> Steve
>

[Glenn Roberts]

Fantastic story Gregg, tx. I remember the z100 shipped with a big thick listing of the pl/m boot rom code and recall being in awe at this inspired code

As a former insider what do you think became of all the source code at Heathkit? Hdos2, hdos3, the boot rom sources, etc. Did it get backed up on some tape drive and end up rotting in some warehouse? Is it still out there somewhere? I ask because it amazes me how so much precious software seems to have gotten lost forever... Like somebody just threw it away!

- Glenn

Sent from my iPad

[Adrian Stoness]

either floppy or some sorta hdd ?

[Norberto Collado]

Trionyx soft sector controller (smart controller).

[steve shumaker]

wow...

steve

[steve shumaker]

IIRC it did a mix of 5.25 and 8s in various formats/densities. And as
Norberto states, it was a Trionix card

Steve

[Tom Williams]

The down-side to creating software is how ephemeral all your work is.  A friend of mine wanted to retire and go into carpentry so that he would be creating things that lasted.

- Tom

[Gregg Chandler]

I used to make 9-track mag tapes of each release, which we stored in the
company vault. I used to also generate a full set of listings which I would
then bind in the print shop. We probably tossed all but the latest release
or two of these. The working source was in accounts by project on our
PDP-11/60 that we used for development--although some migrated to the 11/70.
The original source probably died with those disk packs. When I would
travel to do development, eg. the AutoScribe port, I made sets of diskettes
that held all of the source. I never wanted to recode something we already
had. Gordon's original work was all done on 8-inch floppies on RT-11
(11v03?). We had two utilities that would download binary and text files to
an H-8 or H-89 through a serial port. While traveling through the Seattle
airport one time, the switch box that I used caught the eye of some agent.
It had lots of wires and toggle switches. I believe he thought it a bomb
detonator. I produced a company card to convince him I wasn't going to blow
something up (circa 1980). The world didn't know Paul and Bill at that
time.

The HDOS 3 that shipped was done by non-employees, and I was gone by then.
I believe they were handed my source, and they worked from there, although I
remember one of them considered it to be a hack. My recollection is that
they worked from Bernoulli boxes, although I had left Heath by then. The
HDOS 2 source is relatively small. My further remember that it would fit on
a few 8-inch floppies, possibly a box of 5.25-inch also. (Maybe two boxes?)
I created my H-8 emulator so that I could reassemble old source--some of
which I have done. I also created disk images of some of my old floppies
before they died. Although I still have two H-47's, I am somewhat reluctant
to power them up. Perhaps I'll pick up a 8-inch PC drive some day to image
my 8-inch floppies. Because we use a non-standard sector size, that may be
more work than I want.

I try to keep copies of all my source--although I lost a mag-tape from
college. (The tape drives that could read it were decommissioned while I
was sailing on a boat in the Caribbean (?sp). It was in a proprietary DEC
format that DEC used all nine tracks for data--no parity (PDP-10). Someone
acquired some of the Z-100 source. Perhaps ten years ago or so, he called
my house having seen my name in a listing. Some of the trainer code and/or
robot code was based upon my Z-100 code, and he had acquired those assets.
Seeing my name in the listing he called. That's all that I remember. Maybe
HUG took over after I left? In any case, Jim Blake died years ago, and he
would have been the guy that would know.

>> builds did echo the "DEL" character, along with the Back Space, Space, .....

[Kenneth L. Owen]

Hi Mark and others following this thread,

I picked up the keyboard encoder/decoder chips in today's mail.

I replaced the faulty unit in the H-89A.  Works just fine now!  Thanks for your work to get these parts!

That leaves me with one spare that I pray I never have to use.

-- ken

On Fri, 2012-11-16 at 19:19 -0600, Mark Garlanger wrote:

Chips went out on Wednesday, so if I've received your payment, it'll hopefully arrive tomorrow or Monday. George shipping was less than expected, so I sent back $13. I was unable to 'refund', because paypal said that gifts could not be partially refunded.

Still waiting on payment from:
  Joe Piche - 2   - $30
  Jack Rubin - 3 -  $43
  Thomas ?(from Germany) - 2  -  $45 should easily cover it, and I'll refund once I get the actual price when I ship it.

Ken, as of yesterday's mail, I didn't see you check, yet. If you want to provide me your address, I can send it.


Mark

> wrote:
>         Update on the order, it was delayed due to the problems with
>         Hurricane Sandy mess on the east coast, but was shipped today.
>         So it looks like I should receive it at either the end of this
>         week, or beginning of next. I'll let you guys know when it
>         arrives.
>
>         Mark
>
>
>
>         On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 5:46 PM, John Frankle

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[Mark Garlanger]

Excellent, I'm glad that fixed it.

So everyone in the first group should have received their chips by now.  Jack/Joe your chips went out with Ken's so they have either arrived or should arrive shortly (maybe a little longer for due to customs for Joe).

I have not heard from Thomas yet, I've emailed him directly several times, and gave him until Friday to contact me. If not, I'll have 2 chips available, if anyone is interested in them.

Mark

[Jack Rubin]

Got’em, thanks!

Jack

 

From: se...@googlegroups.com [mailto:se...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark Garlanger

Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2012 3:59 PM
To: se...@googlegroups.com

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 2013.0.2793 / Virus Database: 2629/5921 - Release Date: 11/26/12

[George Farris]

Hi Mark,

Did you send mine out? I haven't received them yet.

George

[Mark Garlanger]

Yes, it was sent out with the first batch. I guess I should have gotten tracking info for it. Do you know how long it typically takes to go through customs? I had to fill out a form when I took it to the post office.

Mark

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sebhc+un...@googlegroups.com.

[Kenneth L. Owen]

Hi Mark and George,

I sent George some 8" floppies after reading what could be read and wrote the files to CD.  They left SC on 10/24 and arrived 11/11, so it takes a couple of weeks +.

-- ken

[George Farris]

Hey Mark,

Got the chips today.

Thanks muchly
George

On Tue, 2012-11-27 at 18:07 -0600, Mark Garlanger wrote:

> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sebhc

[Mark Garlanger]

Excellent.

Mark

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sebhc+un...@googlegroups.com.

[Joe]

Just wondering if you have a tracking # for the package for me?

 

Still hasn’t arrived.

 

Cheers, Joe

[Mark Garlanger]

No, sorry. I had mailed yours out shortly before hearing that there was a long delay for George.  Based on when I mailed out the two batches of chips, I think this is about the length of time it took for the other package to make it to Canada. Hopefully it will arrive shortly. Let me know when it does, or if you still don't have it by next Friday.

Thanks,
  Mark