dropping 2.10 builds for Lithium release (4.0)

[iulian dragos]

Hi all,

I'd like to gauge the interest for a 2.10 build for the next major version of the IDE (4.0). We hope to release an RC1 in a couple of months, and given that Scala is already at 2.11.1 today, we're thinking about not releasing a 2.10 build. That would simplify our development, and given the size of the team, it would be very desirable (see for example the evaluate expression PR being slowed down by the 2.10 build).

Given that M2 has experimental support for multiple Scala versions in the same workspace, we think this won't impact that many people. If 2.10 support is important for you, please try it out and speak up if this is a big concern for you!

cheers,

iulian

[Clint Gilbert]

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What are the implications for users of dropping the 2.10 build? I use
ScalaIDE on a project that can't yet move to 2.11 due to dependencies
that are still on 2.10, and likely won't be able to upgrade for some time.

Would I be able to use a new build of 4.0 and use the
multiple-scala-versions-support to choose Scala 2.10 for my projects,
or would I need a build of Scala IDE specifically for 2.10?

On 06/17/2014 09:42 AM, iulian dragos wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I'd like to gauge the interest for a 2.10 build for the next major
> version of the IDE (4.0). We hope to release an RC1 in a couple of
> months, and given that Scala is already at 2.11.1 today, we're
> thinking about not releasing a 2.10 build. That would simplify our
> development, and given the size of the team, it would be very
> desirable (see for example the evaluate expression PR

> <https://github.com/scala-ide/scala-ide/pull/684> being slowed down

> by the 2.10 build).
>
> Given that M2 has experimental support for multiple Scala versions

> <http://scala-ide.org/blog/Xsource-compatibility.html> in the same

> workspace, we think this won't impact that many people. If 2.10
> support is important for you, please try it out and speak up if
> this is a big concern for you!
>
> cheers, iulian
>
>

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[ijuma]

Sounds good to me.

Ismael

[iulian dragos]

On Tue, Jun 17, 2014 at 4:00 PM, Clint Gilbert <clint_...@hms.harvard.edu> wrote:

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What are the implications for users of dropping the 2.10 build?  I use
ScalaIDE on a project that can't yet move to 2.11 due to dependencies
that are still on 2.10, and likely won't be able to upgrade for some time.

Would I be able to use a new build of 4.0 and use the
multiple-scala-versions-support to choose Scala 2.10 for my projects,
or would I need a build of Scala IDE specifically for 2.10?

You could use the new support for multiple versions of Scala in the same workspace. We seem to be doing a pretty bad job at publicizing/describing it... It would be great if you could give it a try using 4.0-m2. Since it's experimental, there might be issues that we need to fix before the final release.

cheers,

iulian

 

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Alphonse Allais

[Daniel Chia]

My vote is to not drop support for 2.10 until support for multiple Scala versions is no longer experimental but considered "stable" or even "mostly working".

Smaller projects might be able to switch to 2.11 very quickly, but larger organizations might find it tricky to migrate their entire codebase to 2.11 at once. I briefly attempted to get our build working on using the Xsource flag, but ran into a few problems / annoyances:

1) I have to change the source level for every project (we have quite a few), as auto-detection doesn't seem to be working.

2) Even then, there were compile errors.

At that point I just gave up as the 2.10 editor worked fine for me.

I'm happy to try again sometime, but I would be rather sad to see 2.10 support removed until we know multi-version support is working well.

On Tuesday, June 17, 2014 12:47:24 PM UTC-7, ijuma wrote:

Sounds good to me.

Ismael

[Clint Gilbert]

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I agree completely.

On 06/23/2014 05:08 PM, Daniel Chia wrote:
> My vote is to not drop support for 2.10 until support for multiple
> Scala versions is no longer experimental but considered "stable" or
> even "mostly working".

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[Andrew Gaydenko]

I would be happy with "2.11 only" way. Projects forced to use 2.10 can be maintained with already existing IDE versions having 2.10 support.
 

[Clint Gilbert]

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I work on projects that depend on 2.10 and 2.11. I wouldn't want to
switch IDEs to work on different projects.

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[iulian dragos]

Hi Daniel,

On Mon, Jun 23, 2014 at 11:08 PM, Daniel Chia <danst...@gmail.com> wrote:

My vote is to not drop support for 2.10 until support for multiple Scala versions is no longer experimental but considered "stable" or even "mostly working".

Smaller projects might be able to switch to 2.11 very quickly, but larger organizations might find it tricky to migrate their entire codebase to 2.11 at once. I briefly attempted to get our build working on using the Xsource flag, but ran into a few problems / annoyances:

1) I have to change the source level for every project (we have quite a few), as auto-detection doesn't seem to be working.

2) Even then, there were compile errors.

At that point I just gave up as the 2.10 editor worked fine for me.

In order to move from "experimental" to "mostly working" we need to hear from people that use it, and fix those bugs. It would be great if you could let us know about what errors you saw. BTW, did you use sbt-eclipse and the withBundledContainers = false setting?

 

I'm happy to try again sometime, but I would be rather sad to see 2.10 support removed until we know multi-version support is working well.

We all agree, but given the size of the team we have to be very careful with what we choose to work on. The 2.10 build costs us a lot in development time (new features, like evaluate expression, see PR 684, take way longer to integrate because of the requirement to work with both 2.10 and 2.11). The more we delay our release, the less value there is in a 2.10 build (most people will have switched by then to 2.11). Ultimately, 2.10 builds means less time for everything (including multiple version support). :-(

I work on projects that depend on 2.10 and 2.11.  I wouldn't want to
switch IDEs to work on different projects.

Clint, it seems that you are describing the multiple Scala version support as an essential feature. Did you have the chance to give it a spin?

thanks,

iulian

 

On Tuesday, June 17, 2014 12:47:24 PM UTC-7, ijuma wrote:

Sounds good to me.

Ismael

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[Clint Gilbert]

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Not yet. I'm in the middle of a release, but I'll try the new
milestone in a day or two.

On 06/24/2014 04:18 AM, iulian dragos wrote:
>
> Clint, it seems that you are describing the multiple Scala version
> support as an essential feature. Did you have the chance to give it
> a spin?

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[virtualeyes]

+1 for prioritizing 2.11

[Clint Gilbert]

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Hi Iulian, I tried the 2.11 version of 4.0.0m2, and I hit a snag. I
right-clicked on my project, chose Properties -> Scala Compiler,
checked 'Use Project Settings', and selected '2.10' from the Scala
Source Level dropdown.

After closing the dialog, Eclipse wanted to do a full rebuild, which
resulted in a bunch of reported errors. Most of them are about
dependencies that haven't been built for 2.11:

> Description Resource Path Location Type
> scalatest_2.10-1.9.1.jar is cross-compiled with an incompatible version of Scala (SpecificScalaVersion(2,10,0,Final)). In case this report is mistaken, this check can be disabled in the compiler preference page. shrine-util Unknown Scala Classpath Problem
> lift-json_2.10-2.5.1.jar is cross-compiled with an incompatible version of Scala (SpecificScalaVersion(2,10,0,Final)). In case this report is mistaken, this check can be disabled in the compiler preference page. shrine-util Unknown Scala Classpath Problem

Right-clicking the project, choosing Scala Compiler -> Build Manager,
and unchecking 'withVersionClasspathValidator' seems like it might
address the errors, but I can't make a change to that setting 'stick',
wither by choosing apply or ok on the settings dialog. Is it even a
good idea to disable those errors here?

Additionally, several of my projects use the scala-xml module that's no
longer part of scala-library in 2.11. Is there a way to add this to
Eclipse's build path (preferably on an automated basis, as I have about
~30 projects) so that I don't have to modify my POMs? Doing the latter
probably wouldn't work anyway, since my whole tree of Maven modules
depends on Scala 2.10 and 2.10 libs, for which scala-xml is not
available seperately. (Right?)

On 06/24/2014 09:20 AM, Clint Gilbert wrote:
> Not yet. I'm in the middle of a release, but I'll try the new
> milestone in a day or two.
>
> On 06/24/2014 04:18 AM, iulian dragos wrote:
>
>> Clint, it seems that you are describing the multiple Scala version
>> support as an essential feature. Did you have the chance to give it
>> a spin?
>
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[François Garillot]

On Fri, Jun 27, 2014 at 4:53 PM, Clint Gilbert <clint_...@hms.harvard.edu> wrote:

> After closing the dialog, Eclipse wanted to do a full rebuild, which

> resulted in a bunch of reported errors.  Most of them are about

> dependencies that haven't been built for 2.11:

> > Description   Resource        Path    Location        Type

> > scalatest_2.10-1.9.1.jar is cross-compiled with an incompatible version of Scala (SpecificScalaVersion(2,10,0,Final)). In case this report is mistaken, this check can be disabled in the compiler preference page.   shrine-util             Unknown Scala Classpath Problem

> > lift-json_2.10-2.5.1.jar is cross-compiled with an incompatible version of Scala (SpecificScalaVersion(2,10,0,Final)). In case this report is mistaken, this check can be disabled in the compiler preference page.   shrine-util             Unknown Scala Classpath Problem

Those messages occur when the presentation compiler is not running in

compatibility mode, which is detected by checking that compiler Options

include '-Xsource:2.10'.

If you reopen the Project's properties, you should see '-Xsource:2.10'

and '-Ymacro-expand:none' at the end of the 'Additional command line

parameters' line. After setting project settings to '2.10', if you have

logging in debug mode, you should also see a line declaring that these

compiler options have been added to this project's parameters. Is that

the case ?

> Additionally, several of my projects use the scala-xml module that's no

> longer part of scala-library in 2.11.  Is there a way to add this to

> Eclipse's build path (preferably on an automated basis, as I have about

> ~30 projects) so that I don't have to modify my POMs?  Doing the latter

> probably wouldn't work anyway, since my whole tree of Maven modules

> depends on Scala 2.10 and 2.10 libs, for which scala-xml is not

> available seperately.  (Right?)

While they would run on a tweaked 2.11 scala presentation compiler, your

2.10 projects should ultimately have the same classpath : if you have a 2.10

project, the scala-compiler, and scala-library on classpath should be

2.10.

I suspect you are relying on the default scala class path container

provided by Eclipse. Would you mind expanding the details of whatever

you have for Scala in your build path menu until you see versions and

checking what number comes out ?

If it's not a 2.10 scala, you should remove any 2.11 classpath container

and replace it by pointing to 2.10 scala jars (scala-compiler,

scala-library).

On a side note, while adapting the Scala classpath container manually is

still a requirement for this version, we have an automatic adapter that

will do that for you currently in review. It should hit a nightly pretty

soon, and I'm already working on improvements of that feature.

-- 

François Garillot

[Clint Gilbert]

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Thanks for your help, François. I'll answer your questions below.

On 06/27/2014 12:53 PM, François Garillot wrote:
> Those messages occur when the presentation compiler is not running
> in compatibility mode, which is detected by checking that compiler
> Options include '-Xsource:2.10'.
>
> If you reopen the Project's properties, you should see
> '-Xsource:2.10' and '-Ymacro-expand:none' at the end of the
> 'Additional command line parameters' line. After setting project
> settings to '2.10', if you have logging in debug mode, you should
> also see a line declaring that these compiler options have been
> added to this project's parameters. Is that the case ?

I don't know if my IDE is logging in debug mode. How do I check, and
enable debug mode if needed?

After switching 'Scala Source Level' to 2.10, the 'additional command
line parameters' box is still blank. If I add the values you
mentioned to that field and let Eclipse do a clean and rebuild, the
errors I saw in Eclipse's problems view go away and are replaced by:

> The version of scala library found in the build path (2.11.1) is
> incompatible with the one expected by scala IDE (2.10). Please
> replace the scala library with the scala container or a compatible
> scala library jar. shrine-util Unknown Scala Classpath Problem

Which makes sense, as I have a library container, 'Scala Library
[2.11.1]' on my project's build path.

> While they would run on a tweaked 2.11 scala presentation compiler,
> your 2.10 projects should ultimately have the same classpath : if
> you have a 2.10 project, the scala-compiler, and scala-library on
> classpath should be 2.10.

This is good to know.

> I suspect you are relying on the default scala class path
> container provided by Eclipse. Would you mind expanding the details
> of whatever you have for Scala in your build path menu until you
> see versions and checking what number comes out ?

That's the case. I was using the default Scala class path container
which brings in 2.11.1 jars.

> If it's not a 2.10 scala, you should remove any 2.11 classpath
> container and replace it by pointing to 2.10 scala jars
> (scala-compiler, scala-library).

I tried doing this with an explicit Maven dependency on
org.scala-lang:scala-library:2.10.4, but after lots of clean-rebuilds
and right-click->Maven->Update Project, I still see

> Unable to find a scala library. Please add the scala container or a
> scala library jar to the build path. shrine-util Unknown Scala
> Classpath Problem

in the problems view. I can make that error go away by adding a
scala-library jar on my filesystem to the build path as an external
jar, but that's not workable for my ~30 projects, unfortunately.

> On a side note, while adapting the Scala classpath container
> manually is still a requirement for this version, we have an
> automatic adapter that will do that for you currently in review. It
> should hit a nightly pretty soon, and I'm already working on
> improvements of that feature.

That's great news. I'll try out the next milestone when it arrives.

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[François Garillot]

Thanks you for your report, it will greatly help push that feature to

completion.

On Fri, Jun 27, 2014 at 9:04 PM, Clint Gilbert <clint_...@hms.harvard.edu> wrote:

> I don't know if my IDE is logging in debug mode.  How do I check, and

> enable debug mode if needed?

http://scala-ide.org/docs/current-user-doc/features/logging/index.html

> After switching 'Scala Source Level' to 2.10, the 'additional command

> line parameters' box is still blank.  If I add the values you

> mentioned to that field and let Eclipse do a clean and rebuild, the

> errors I saw in Eclipse's problems view go away and are replaced by:

One confusing thing I'm working on at the moment is that this

'Additional parameters' line doesn't offer immediate feedback. Do, if

you switch the toggle (2.11 -> 2.10) press OK (closing the dialog), and

reopen project properties, you should get the additional '-Xsource:2.10'

option added to this line. But it won't appear if you just flick the

switch without saving (for now).

> > If it's not a 2.10 scala, you should remove any 2.11 classpath

> > container and replace it by pointing to 2.10 scala jars

> > (scala-compiler, scala-library).

> I tried doing this with an explicit Maven dependency on

> org.scala-lang:scala-library:2.10.4, but after lots of clean-rebuilds

> and right-click->Maven->Update Project, I still see

> > Unable to find a scala library. Please add the scala container or a

> > scala library jar to the build path.  shrine-util             Unknown Scala

> > Classpath Problem

Yes, I'm afraid the maven dependency does not put a scala library in

your fully resolved classpath, which is what this check considers. Is

that something you use often ?

> in the problems view.  I can make that error go away by adding a

> scala-library jar on my filesystem to the build path as an external

> jar, but that's not workable for my ~30 projects, unfortunately.

Very understandable, and hopefully, a nightly will soon be able to

greatly help you with that.

--

FG

[Rich Oliver]

+1 for prioritising 2.11

It seems like a lot of effort has gone into making the transition to 2.11 as painless as possible at considerable cost to the speed of development of Scala. As 2.11 is the last release that will support Java 6 and 7. It strikes me that it makes sense to focus on 2.11 as a sort of long term support release. 3.03 seems perfectly serviceable for those that feel they must remain on 2.10 for the time being.

[Clint Gilbert]

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On 07/03/2014 04:17 PM, Rich Oliver wrote:
> feel they must remain on 2.10

I can't speak for everyone whose projects depend on 2.10, but my
projects' dependencies have much less to do with my feelings than with
valid business reasons, like needed dependencies not being released
for 2.11.

+1 for making the IDE work smoothly with 2.10 and 2.11 out of the box.

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[Andrew Gaydenko]

On Friday, July 4, 2014 12:33:11 AM UTC+4, Clint Gilbert wrote:

+1 for making the IDE work smoothly with 2.10 and 2.11 out of the box.

So, your project not only depends on libs being ready for 2.10 at the moment, but also depends on another libs working under 2.11 only. Is it true?

[Clint Gilbert]

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I need to work on the latest release of my app, plus the last couple
of releases. The current version could be migrated to 2.11, but doing
that for the older ones would be a harder sell, as I'd have to upgrade
more deps and upgrade them from (possibly much) earlier versions,
resulting in more code changes. For this reason the last couple of
versions are likely to stay on 2.10 for as long as they're supported.

If ScalaIDE doesn't make it easy to work with projects built with
multiple Scala versions, I could have 2 Eclipse installs, one for 2.10
projects and one for 2.11 projects, but that's clunky. (Would
IntelliJ make users do that?)

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[Andrew Gaydenko]

Clint, thanks for the explanation. Just wanted to understand if your case is sufficiently common to stick very limited team resources to the use case.

[Clint Gilbert]

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No worries, I understand you need to make some hard choices about what
to work on. Based on other messages in this thread, it seems like the
next milestone will have better support for multiple Scala versions,
which makes me optimistic.

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[Andrew Gaydenko]

On Friday, July 4, 2014 2:20:32 AM UTC+4, Clint Gilbert wrote:

No worries, I understand you need to make some hard choices about what
to work on.  Based on other messages in this thread, it seems like the
next milestone will have better support for multiple Scala versions,
which makes me optimistic.

No-no, I'm just humble Scala developer not being included into any team, into Scala IDE one in particular :) So my question was just an illustration of my curiosity, Sorry I wasn't clear from the beginning.

[iulian dragos]

Hi all,

Indeed, we are working hard on making multiple version support a reality. Francois has managed to push it quite far, and you can see this in our PR queue (for example: PR 731, with a task list).

The Scala IDE had this limitation since its inception: the Scala version was baked-in the plugin you install, and people who could not switch had to use several Eclipse installs. We always tried to provide an upgrade for two Scala major versions, but we feel the multi-version support is a better answer than cross-compilation. We want people to be able to build additional functionality (plugins) on top of the core Scala plugin (like ScalaTest, JavaToScala translator, ScalaStyle), and imposing them the same burden is going to eventually make them give up.

I encourage people to try out milestones (and even nightlies) and give us feedback. This is a pretty big feature, we can use feedback (and help to make it prettier!)

cheers,

iulian

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[Scott Carey]

On Friday, June 27, 2014 9:54:27 AM UTC-7, François Garillot wrote:

On Fri, Jun 27, 2014 at 4:53 PM, Clint Gilbert <clint_...@hms.harvard.edu> wrote:

> After closing the dialog, Eclipse wanted to do a full rebuild, which

> resulted in a bunch of reported errors.  Most of them are about

> dependencies that haven't been built for 2.11:

> > Description   Resource        Path    Location        Type

> > scalatest_2.10-1.9.1.jar is cross-compiled with an incompatible version of Scala (SpecificScalaVersion(2,10,0,Final)). In case this report is mistaken, this check can be disabled in the compiler preference page.   shrine-util             Unknown Scala Classpath Problem

> > lift-json_2.10-2.5.1.jar is cross-compiled with an incompatible version of Scala (SpecificScalaVersion(2,10,0,Final)). In case this report is mistaken, this check can be disabled in the compiler preference page.   shrine-util             Unknown Scala Classpath Problem

Those messages occur when the presentation compiler is not running in

compatibility mode, which is detected by checking that compiler Options

include '-Xsource:2.10'.

Just ran into this upgrading to the 4.0 milestone.   Now I have to edit 100 projects by hand to use the 2.10.4 bundle.   Ok that is a lie, only ~35% of the projects are Scala.
Well, I can probably script modifying the project configs instead.

This is because the m2e integration does not set the -Xsource setting or choose the bundle based on what the maven project's scala version is.
 
I would go back to Kepler, except that no longer works for me due to problems in other plugins, which is how I got here.  So whomever suggested that 2.10 support be dropped because older IDE versions can still run that -- not anymore, not for me.

When I try and set this at the global level, it does not let me choose the 2.10.4 bundle.  I can only do so at the per project level.   I really hope this is cleaned up before 4.0 so that it just works.

[iulian dragos]

On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 6:52 AM, Scott Carey <scott...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Friday, June 27, 2014 9:54:27 AM UTC-7, François Garillot wrote:

On Fri, Jun 27, 2014 at 4:53 PM, Clint Gilbert <clint_...@hms.harvard.edu> wrote:

> After closing the dialog, Eclipse wanted to do a full rebuild, which

> resulted in a bunch of reported errors.  Most of them are about

> dependencies that haven't been built for 2.11:

> > Description   Resource        Path    Location        Type

> > scalatest_2.10-1.9.1.jar is cross-compiled with an incompatible version of Scala (SpecificScalaVersion(2,10,0,Final)). In case this report is mistaken, this check can be disabled in the compiler preference page.   shrine-util             Unknown Scala Classpath Problem

> > lift-json_2.10-2.5.1.jar is cross-compiled with an incompatible version of Scala (SpecificScalaVersion(2,10,0,Final)). In case this report is mistaken, this check can be disabled in the compiler preference page.   shrine-util             Unknown Scala Classpath Problem

Those messages occur when the presentation compiler is not running in

compatibility mode, which is detected by checking that compiler Options

include '-Xsource:2.10'.

Just ran into this upgrading to the 4.0 milestone.   Now I have to edit 100 projects by hand to use the 2.10.4 bundle.   Ok that is a lie, only ~35% of the projects are Scala.
Well, I can probably script modifying the project configs instead.

This is because the m2e integration does not set the -Xsource setting or choose the bundle based on what the maven project's scala version is. 

 
I would go back to Kepler, except that no longer works for me due to problems in other plugins, which is how I got here.  So whomever suggested that 2.10 support be dropped because older IDE versions can still run that -- not anymore, not for me.

When I try and set this at the global level, it does not let me choose the 2.10.4 bundle.  I can only do so at the per project level.   I really hope this is cleaned up before 4.0 so that it just works.

So a workspace-level preference would help here. m2e-scala scala should also understand the new setting. Thanks!

 

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[David Bernard]

Hi,

I need some details before "adapting" m2e-scala. 

1. If we "use 2.10" with  scala-ide version >= 4.0.0, should the project use SCALA_CONTAINER library or not and keep scala-library provided by maven ?

2. How to set the preference "use 2.10" programmatically ? (without any dependency to scala-ide plugin/bundle)

Thanks.

(I'll not be able to work on it before next week).

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/scala-ide-user/CAOwe9fZrbc1Ha%3D0kH-g2qD%3DFZ4-ZRSH4PyQgfsw%3D%3DBqF2TxPxQ%40mail.gmail.com.