CosmicWatch-Desktop-Muon-Detector

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Paul Hearn

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Feb 18, 2021, 5:59:21 AM2/18/21
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I'm a retired engineer in the UK and have a Radio Astronomy lab.

The CosmicWatch-Desktop-Muon-Detector project looks very interesting and well thought out with loads of good information. 

I'm looking at adding muon detection to my data flow. Is it possible to purchase a CosmicWatch-Desktop-Muon-Detector-v2 or a full kit of parts. I'm having difficulty is finding purchase information for complete units.  Some of the components are not so easy to find as an individual in the UK.   

Are there any SARA members part of this project.  

Jim Hannon

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Feb 18, 2021, 8:59:47 AM2/18/21
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I had a look at this project a couple of years ago. From looking at the
dates on the web pages and files I get the impression the project is
dead. Have you tried emailing the persons on the contact page?
You could still build the detector. You can have the PCB made by
suppliers in China. Should be able to find some of the scintillation
plastic on Ebay and the SiPM from electronic distributors. Though last
time I looked they were in short supply.

Jim Hannon
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Michiel Klaassen

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Feb 18, 2021, 10:29:49 AM2/18/21
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Op do 18 feb. 2021 om 13:59 schreef Jim Hannon <jmha...@fmtcs.com>:
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Jim Hannon

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Feb 18, 2021, 11:59:13 AM2/18/21
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I don't really understand much about muons but the project went to a lot
of trouble to build a scintillation detector rather than a Geiger counter.

BTW I have a SparkFun Geiger counter running online. About the only
thing interesting you see from it's data is an occasional radon washout
event when it rains. http://www.ocrslc.net/sensors/gcsensor.php

Jim Hannon

On 2/18/2021 9:29 AM, Michiel Klaassen wrote:
> Hi All,
> Perhaps this is an alternative; assembled or not.
>
> https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/4000235787157.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.1000014.3.3fcc3d68DzbIsC&gps-id=pcDetailBottomMoreOtherSeller&scm=1007.13338.177756.0&scm_id=1007.13338.177756.0&scm-url=1007.13338.177756.0&pvid=4b5ecdda-c24b-459e-8157-464f0e52f627&_t=gps-id:pcDetailBottomMoreOtherSeller,scm-url:1007.13338.177756.0,pvid:4b5ecdda-c24b-459e-8157-464f0e52f627,tpp_buckets:668%230%23131923%2328_668%23888%233325%232_3338%230%23177756%230_3338%233142%239890%232_668%232846%238107%231934_668%232717%237566%23866_668%231000022185%231000066059%230_668%233422%2315392%23540
> <https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/4000235787157.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.1000014.3.3fcc3d68DzbIsC&gps-id=pcDetailBottomMoreOtherSeller&scm=1007.13338.177756.0&scm_id=1007.13338.177756.0&scm-url=1007.13338.177756.0&pvid=4b5ecdda-c24b-459e-8157-464f0e52f627&_t=gps-id:pcDetailBottomMoreOtherSeller,scm-url:1007.13338.177756.0,pvid:4b5ecdda-c24b-459e-8157-464f0e52f627,tpp_buckets:668%230%23131923%2328_668%23888%233325%232_3338%230%23177756%230_3338%233142%239890%232_668%232846%238107%231934_668%232717%237566%23866_668%231000022185%231000066059%230_668%233422%2315392%23540>
>
> Michiel
> parac.eu <http://parac.eu>
>
> Op do 18 feb. 2021 om 13:59 schreef Jim Hannon <jmha...@fmtcs.com
> <mailto:jmha...@fmtcs.com>>:
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Marcus D. Leech

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Feb 18, 2021, 12:45:56 PM2/18/21
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On 02/18/2021 11:59 AM, Jim Hannon wrote:
> I don't really understand much about muons but the project went to a
> lot of trouble to build a scintillation detector rather than a Geiger
> counter.
>
> BTW I have a SparkFun Geiger counter running online. About the only
> thing interesting you see from it's data is an occasional radon
> washout event when it rains. http://www.ocrslc.net/sensors/gcsensor.php
>
> Jim Hannon
We run a 4-channel cosmic Muon detector based on cheap webcams inside a
dark metal box, and a bit of software using the
"opencv" Python library for machine vision.

The detection rate is not that high--an event every few minutes per
detector. The detector areas (just cheap CMOS camera sensors)
are tiny, so the detection cross-section is necessarily quite low.
But they reliably detect muon-driven electron precipitation events inside
the detectors.

James Brown

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Feb 18, 2021, 1:03:07 PM2/18/21
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I have built two of these units and don’t recommend them.
I wanted to build two units because of their ability to be ‘chained’ together so that only muons that occur in both units would be registered. My idea was to use the two on a mount making a cosmic ray telescope.
I managed to get both units electronics running but the addition of the required Silicon Photomultiplier (SiPM) was my downfall. The SiPM itself has to be ordered ($100 each) and the scintillation plastic ($40) as well. Soldering the SiPM to the board is fraught to say the least. I never got either of the units running because (I assume) I burned out the SiPM while soldering them down. I was going to order two more SiPMs but then common sense overtook me.

If the SiPM and scintillation plastic could be ordered assembled I would give it another try.

I’m still following the project be so far it doesn’t look promising.

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Larry Mayfield

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Feb 18, 2021, 1:24:40 PM2/18/21
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Marcus,
Sounds like fun. But where does it lead to? Once the events are detected, what do we do with that knowledge? Does the detection signify a special event or? What kinds of analysis can be performed to advance the art? Science? Or? I am too ignorant of what is going on to be able to ask intelligent questions, lol. I.E. I don't know what I don't know... but is fun hearing about different things! Hat's off to the experimenters!

Larry
Pahrump, NV
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Marcus D. Leech

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Feb 18, 2021, 1:34:20 PM2/18/21
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On 02/18/2021 01:24 PM, Larry Mayfield wrote:
> Marcus,
> Sounds like fun. But where does it lead to? Once the events are detected, what do we do with that knowledge? Does the detection signify a special event or? What kinds of analysis can be performed to advance the art? Science? Or? I am too ignorant of what is going on to be able to ask intelligent questions, lol. I.E. I don't know what I don't know... but is fun hearing about different things! Hat's off to the experimenters!
>
> Larry
> Pahrump, NV
We're providing the raw event data to Carleton University, and they have
a physics prof who is interested in the data. What we do is
we find the brighest pixels in an "event" image, and produce
thumbnails of the event, and Carleton evaluates those.

Not sure of the details of what the analysis looks like. I built the
thing mostly because we had 4 cameras that we tried for meteor
detection but they were not sensitive enough, so I redeployed them
for cosmic muon detection.

Steve Berl

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Feb 18, 2021, 1:37:46 PM2/18/21
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I have an ERGO (https://www.ergotelescope.org/) Pixel that has been running at my house for years. Don't know if the project is still alive or has died. Last thing I can find posted on their web site is from 2014.

Steve

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djl

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Feb 18, 2021, 3:11:23 PM2/18/21
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Steve: I had one of these too. several years ago it quit, so I sent it in to trade for a working one. Tried to communicate for a long time, no result. I think ERGO is long dead; I'd use the parts :-).

Don

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Larry Mayfield

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Feb 18, 2021, 4:53:28 PM2/18/21
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Very cool! Repurposed hardware is good. Like me today. Some time ago I built a tutorial rig to see how an ESP8266 worked as a web server. Pretty simple really. But it could turn LEDs on and off with either a touch on the screen or the mouse. Today, my partner of 49+ years was feel a bit off: she and I had received our #2 dose of the covid goo yesterday (we are both high risk elderly folk) and I had the epiphany. I dug out that rig and had it up and running in quick order. I made sure it worked to turn on the LEDs on command of the touch or rodent and then changed out the two LED: I swapped one to green and one to red. Went down to her hideaway where she works most of the day running the family. I had her type in the address of the ESP8266 which is running as a virtual web server now and set her browser up with a pin it tab to the address. Now if she needs me she just has to activate the red LED down in my office (the worm hole I call it, Spouse calls it the worm's hole) and I go running to fill do whatever request she needs done. A silent call button... Works like a charm! Repurposed is good!

I wonder what the prof is up to?

Anyway thanks for the reply.

Larry
Pahrump, nv
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>>>

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Paul Hearn

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Feb 19, 2021, 5:57:29 AM2/19/21
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Thanks so much for the good information, you have a great community and I'm pleased to be part of it.  I hope one day to visit the USA and come to your annual conference.
Counting muons has little scientific value (I think), however when added to other observations it can be interesting.  i.e. solar activity,
When stacked (with some coincidence processing) some spacial inf. and when added to other world-wide observations we have the makings of a muon telescope, a great undergraduate project.  A muon telescope was a dream once but I don't think it's being pursued at the present time, a pixel/observatory!!
[BTW well done re. Perseverance, we were glued to NASA TV]
Paul
Reading UK.

Michiel Klaassen

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Feb 19, 2021, 10:25:02 AM2/19/21
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Hi Jim,
I read your blog you mentioned in your post.
You have done some amazing projects and have done them very professionally.
Congratulations!

What gave me an extra trigger is that you mentioned a pyranometer, and clicking further I found the mentioning of Kipp&Zonen.
Well, I was in the (2 man) development team of that instrument at Kipp for 10 years (many many moons ago).
Best regards,
Michiel Klaassen

Op do 18 feb. 2021 om 13:59 schreef Jim Hannon <jmha...@fmtcs.com>:
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Emmett Kyle

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Feb 20, 2021, 12:43:33 AM2/20/21
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I've made several scintillation detectors using photomultiplier tubes and scintillation plastic and some sodium iodide detectors. There is a guy on Ebay that sells PM tube kits and scintillation plastic already prepared to mount to a PM tube. You would still need a high voltage power supply and a comparator circuit of some sort to interface with a micro controller. Its fun watching normal background pulses and watch a muon hit the detector. The muon pulses are sometimes 10x the height of a "normal" background pulse. There are observatories in Argentina and other places that have large arrays consisting of water tanks in a grid which have photomultiplier tube detectors. They can tell how strong an event was and what direction it came from depending on the pattern and the timing of pulses hitting the detectors. I would think that if one could provide precise timing info associated with events that it may be useful. I've also heard of projects that try to do this using the cameras in cell phones.


One of the many observatories: https://www.auger.org/

Ronald Fleshman

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Feb 21, 2021, 10:47:26 AM2/21/21
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Paul

I haven't heard good reports on the cosmic watch detectors.

Other detectors are available to do the same thing.

I have been using the Aware rm 60 detectors to monitor both backround and Muons since 2005.  I don't believe Aware is around any longer but the Black Cat Systems GM10 is basically the same unit. They run off a serial port or usb port of a computer. Both of these units use a GM tube as the detector. Scintillation Detectors and pancake tubes will give more sensitivity but at much higher cost.

I have two of them stacked one on top of the other.  They are connected to the computer through a coincidence box to read both total backround and muon counts.  I export the data into Excel to chart and graph. 

Ron


No trees were destroyed in the sending of this contaminant- free message. However, we do concede a significant number of electrons may have been inconvenienced.


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