Better to be silent when frogs croak - Sanskrit subhashitam

[K.N.RAMESH]

Courtesy: https://kalpanamuzumdar.wordpress.com/tag/maunam/

भद्रं भद्रं कृतं मौनं कोकिलैर्जलदागमे l 

वक्तारो दुर्दरा यत्र तत्र मौनं हि शोभते ll 

bhadram bhadram krutam maunam kokilairjaladaagame l

vaktaaro durdaraa yatra tatra maunam hi shobhate ll

On the onset of the rainy season, Cuckoo does not sing (but remains silent). That may as well be, because when there are distressing noises (croaking of the frogs), it is better to be silent.

[Hnbhat B.R.]

It should have been दर्दुराः   and not दुर्दराः.

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[KN.Ramesh]

Thanks a lot for pointing out Prof.Dr.H.N.Bhat ji

namaskarams

[S K]

This verse is a classic example of the "depravation" (per Whitney) of Sanskrit after the Vedic period.

Later Sanskrit writers couldn't be bothered to remember the complicated cases and tenses of Vedic Sanskrit and have avoided active voice and finite verbs like a plague

Sanskrit died for a reason - it became sterile.

The verse above cannot be considered to be in the same language as

हिरण्यगर्भः समवर्तताग्रे भूतस्य जातः पतिरेकासीत ।
स दाधार पृथ्वीं ध्यामुतेमां कस्मै देवायहविषा विधेम ॥

[Naresh Cuntoor]

On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 8:21 PM S K <skpf...@gmail.com> wrote:

This verse is a classic example of the "depravation" (per Whitney) of Sanskrit after the Vedic period.

Later Sanskrit writers couldn't be bothered to remember the complicated cases and tenses of Vedic Sanskrit and have avoided active voice and finite verbs like a plague

Sanskrit died for a reason - it became sterile.

The verse above cannot be considered to be in the same language as

हिरण्यगर्भः समवर्तताग्रे भूतस्य जातः पतिरेकासीत ।
स दाधार पृथ्वीं ध्यामुतेमां कस्मै देवायहविषा विधेम ॥

Even a beginner in Samskrit will understand much, much more of the Vedic extract you posted than the most fluent of English speakers would of Beowulf.

Here, these are the first few lines of Beowulf I found online -

Hwæt. We Gardena in geardagum,

þeodcyninga, þrym gefrunon,

hu ða æþelingas ellen fremedon.

Oft Scyld Scefing sceaþena þreatum,

monegum mægþum, meodosetla ofteah,

egsode eorlas. Syððan ærest wearð

Also, for a post claiming to defend Vedic Samskrit, the least one would expect is to get the shloka right. Or at least, know enough to copy/paste a typo-free version. But hey, facts are overrated for people who believe in narratives.

Naresh

[S. L. Abhyankar]

सुभाषितमेकं सरलतरम् आशयस्तु तथैव => 

कोलाहले काककुलस्य जाते ।

विराजते कोकिलकूजितं किम् । 

परस्परं संवदतां खलानाम् । 

मौनं विधेयं सततं सुधीभिः॥ 

[Neelesh Bodas]

On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 9:03 PM S. L. Abhyankar <sl.abh...@gmail.com> wrote:

सुभाषितमेकं सरलतरम् आशयस्तु तथैव => 

कोलाहले काककुलस्य जाते ।

विराजते कोकिलकूजितं किम् । 

परस्परं संवदतां खलानाम् । 

मौनं विधेयं सततं सुधीभिः॥ 

कोलाहले काककुलस्य जाते  

विलम्बते किं वसन्तागमो हि?

परस्परं संवदतां खलानाम्

मौनं न धेयं कदाचित् सुधीभिः॥ 

 

On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 at 03:25, KN.Ramesh <knra...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks a lot for pointing out Prof.Dr.H.N.Bhat ji

namaskarams

On Monday, 10 June 2019 21:20:38 UTC+5:30, KN.Ramesh wrote:

Courtesy: https://kalpanamuzumdar.wordpress.com/tag/maunam/

भद्रं भद्रं कृतं मौनं कोकिलैर्जलदागमे l 

वक्तारो दुर्दरा यत्र तत्र मौनं हि शोभते ll 

bhadram bhadram krutam maunam kokilairjaladaagame l

vaktaaro durdaraa yatra tatra maunam hi shobhate ll

On the onset of the rainy season, Cuckoo does not sing (but remains silent). That may as well be, because when there are distressing noises (croaking of the frogs), it is better to be silent. 

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[S. L. Abhyankar]

साधूक्तम् नीलेशवर्य -

कोलाहले काककुलस्य जाते  

विलम्बते किं वसन्तागमो हि?

तथापि कोकिलेन वसन्तागमतावत् धीरेण वर्तनीयम् |

अविलम्बनविषये मराठी-भाषायां कथ्यते - 

कुक्कुटस्याच्छादनेनैव 

सूर्योदयः किं विलम्बते ?

On Wed, 12 Jun 2019 at 00:23, Neelesh Bodas <neeles...@gmail.com> wrote:

[S K]

This person posts only to conduct combat and I don't expect him to comprehend my point.

I am not contrasting "Vedic Sanskrit" and "Classical Sanskrit" linguistically.

I am comparing the quality of Sanskrit works in the Vedic period and later scriptures.

Whitney is 100 percent correct that Sanskrit underwent a deprivation after the Vedic period in the form of overlong compounds, pervasive passive voice and not using finite verb forms.

Mahabharata, Ramayana and Puranas are all written in mediocre sanskrit - totally lacking the power of the language used in Rig Veda.

The Sanskrit affected by posters posting in Sanskrit here is like a toothache.

Sanskrit  is not a living language - and let us move on.

The attested ancient works are of immense importance - but English is the key to understand them, going forward.

[Irene Galstian]

Why is English the key to understanding Sanskrit works?

On 6/15/19, S K <skpf...@gmail.com> wrote:
> This person posts only to conduct combat and I don't expect him to
> comprehend my point.
>
> I am not contrasting "Vedic Sanskrit" and "Classical Sanskrit"
> linguistically.
>
> I am comparing the quality of Sanskrit works in the Vedic period and later
> scriptures.
>
> Whitney is 100 percent correct that Sanskrit underwent a deprivation after
> the Vedic period in the form of overlong compounds, pervasive passive voice
>
> and not using finite verb forms.
>
> Mahabharata, Ramayana and Puranas are all written in mediocre sanskrit -
> totally lacking the power of the language used in Rig Veda.
>
> The Sanskrit affected by posters posting in Sanskrit here is like a
> toothache.
>
> Sanskrit is not a living language - and let us move on.
>
> The attested ancient works are of immense importance - but English is the
> key to understand them, going forward.
>
>
> On Tuesday, June 11, 2019 at 8:50:40 PM UTC-4, Naresh Cuntoor wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>

>> On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 8:21 PM S K <skpf...@gmail.com <javascript:>>

>> wrote:
>>
>>> This verse is a classic example of the "depravation" (per Whitney) of
>>> Sanskrit after the Vedic period.
>>>
>>> Later Sanskrit writers couldn't be bothered to remember the complicated
>>> cases and tenses of Vedic Sanskrit and have avoided active voice and
>>> finite
>>> verbs like a plague
>>>
>>> Sanskrit died for a reason - it became sterile.
>>>
>>> The verse above cannot be considered to be in the same language as
>>>
>>>

>>> *हिरण्यगर्भः समवर्तताग्रे भूतस्य जातः पतिरेकासीत ।* स दाधार पृथ्वीं

>>> ध्यामुतेमां कस्मै देवायहविषा विधेम ॥
>>>
>>
>>
>> Even a beginner in Samskrit will understand much, much more of the Vedic
>> extract you posted than the most fluent of English speakers would of
>> Beowulf.
>> Here, these are the first few lines of Beowulf I found online -
>>
>> Hwæt. We Gardena in geardagum,
>> þeodcyninga, þrym gefrunon,
>> hu ða æþelingas ellen fremedon.
>> Oft Scyld Scefing sceaþena þreatum,
>> monegum mægþum, meodosetla ofteah,
>> egsode eorlas. Syððan ærest wearð
>>
>>
>> Also, for a post claiming to defend Vedic Samskrit, the least one would
>> expect is to get the shloka right. Or at least, know enough to copy/paste
>> a
>> typo-free version. But hey, facts are overrated for people who believe in
>>
>> narratives.
>>
>> Naresh
>>
>>
>>
>

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[Sumedha Verma Ojha]

Yes, I would like to understand that,too. How about so many Indian languages and scripts through which Sanskrit still lives ?

Sumedha 

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[Nagaraj Paturi]

All the words like quality, deprivation, mediocre etc. used in SK's post are highly subjective and value loaded. 

Those are opinions. 

There can not be any discussion about subjective value loaded opinion statements. 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/samskrita/CAK-gWDrSjAYR3f5CkChtMOMU7vRGxuBuFgAr_BmfJXzkAuaEyA%40mail.gmail.com.

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Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

Director,  Inter-Gurukula-University Centre for Indic Knowledge Systems. 

BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra

BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

 

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

 

 

 

[S K]

A language lives by parents speaking to little children in that language and it being spoken in the street..

The use of Devanagari script today says nothing as to whether Sanskrit lives.

You can say that it "lives" through Hindi,Gujarati etc, if you use a peculiar definition of "lives".

Although Malayalam, Telugu and Kannada have a huge inventory of borrowed words from Sanskrit - they belong to a separate language family and are not descendants of Sanskrit.

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[Arvind_Kolhatkar]

To understand SK's point better, I would like to read Whitney's statement in its surrounding context.  Can it be supplied?  By SK or by someone else?

Arvind Kolhatkar.

[Irene Galstian]

Here’s the link to Whitney’s Sanskrit Grammar. 

https://archive.org/details/sanskritgrammari00whituoft/page/n6

The quote in question is part of the Introduction. 

On 15 Jun 2019, at 10:17 pm, Arvind_Kolhatkar <kolhat...@gmail.com> wrote:

To understand SK's point better, I would like to read Whitney's statement in its surrounding context.  Can it be supplied?  By SK or by someone else?

Arvind Kolhatkar.

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[Sanju Nath]

Dear SK,

Let me guess given your anonymity:

* You are doing research/PhD at one of the Western Sanskrit departments and will publish about your interaction here with right wing Hindu nationalists.

* You follow the thinking of the likes of Sidney Pollard and Wendy Doniger on Sanskrit and Hinduism, and how the future of Sanskrit lies with their thinking in the West, and not with the Indians or traditional Sanskrit scholars worldwide who are to be excluded or vanquished versus engaged.

* You don't like the current government in India or Sanskrita Bharati organization world-wide for the promotion of Sanskrit or Indian culture because that threatens the ownership of Sanskrit by your sect in the West. 

If you or your mentors wanted honest discussion about future of Sanskrit, please discuss with scholars who hold opposing views such as Rajeev Mehrotra (who has written a book "The Battle for Sanskrit" and where your sectarian thoughts are ably repudiated) and Dr. Kak and many others in the West.  But of course, they would not be an echo chamber and their arguments cannot be answered except by extreme prescriptive statements such as displayed in your posts.

Here's a short video by Dr. Kak if you have the time on Sanskrit (24 minutes long).  Please feel free to invite him for discussion at whichever university you are a member of.

https://youtu.be/NmG1Jgwq6QU

"From the times of Rigveda to now, Sanskrit has thrived and helped nourish young minds. Prof. Kak reveals the importance of chanting and speaking Sanskrit from a young age and how it helps in cognitive intelligence."

Why are you here if you know we are all wrong and you are right?

Sincerely,
Sanju

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Thanks,
Sanju

[S K]

Not just Sanskrit - just about everything:

https://www.quora.com/Is-it-true-that-much-of-the-knowledge-of-the-world-is-in-English

Nothing written about Rig Veda so far in any language can equal the Brererton and Jamieson translation.

Many early lexical items are only poorly understood and the early commentators like Sayana are often fanciful.

Sanskrit has almost impenetrable ambiguity due to Sandhi and compounding and only a historical linguistics approach can unravel the remaining mysteries in the older scriptures.

English has become analytical (in the linguistic sense) to such an extent and has this astounding vocabulary that its expressive power is near-universal.

At any rate, most educated Indians now think in English and it is now an Indian language and is the most natural language to study Sanskrit in.

English is so rich that "ubtranslatable words like "dharma" and "Deva" can be left as they are in translation.

> email to sams...@googlegroups.com.

[Raja Srinivasan]

Dear Sri SK,

I have no idea who you are and what your name is. Your name is hidden within your email address, so please do pardon me for addressing you as SK.

 

If you think Samskritam is “dead” what are you doing here?

 

Regards

Raja Srinivasan

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[Irene Galstian]

I looked at other posts by SK, and these are on the level a contrary
teenager whose main intent is to troll. It's not so much what SK is
doing on this list (that's for SK to decide - and for Naresh), but
whether people responding to SK feel that their time is well spent.

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