CPCU Society
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Bill Wilson
Benefits Shared by All Membership Categories
All members—regardless of category—typically receive the following core benefits: cpcusociety.org+1
✅ Free monthly webinars on industry topics
✅ Subscription to Insights professional journal
✅ Member-only access to online community and Mentor Match program
✅ Career center tools and job resources
✅ Networking opportunities via local chapters, interest groups, and events
✅ Member discounts on events and select professional resources
On Dec 15, 2025, at 6:07 PM, 'AOL! EMAIL! SERVICE!!!' via RiskList <risk...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
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Scott LeMay
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Dave Morgan
member, too.
Not entirely sure what benefit this would bring to me on the basis that
if you're "post career" you're sort of actively avoiding work, but as
that "Post Career" deal's only a hundred bucks a year, maybe I'll give
it a go. If I ever find myself having to work again I could tell the
recruitment agency that I was a CPCU member:
"What does that mean?"
"It means I know loads about WC, CGL, Accord and stuff like that."
"What are those things?"
"Ah, forgot that we don't have those in the UK. I think they're American
insurance things and I can't actually prove that I know anything about
them, but I'm pretty sure they're insurance things so I reckon you
should give me the job?"
I also like the fact that they've valued the quarterly magazine at $50
per issue to justify the membership fee. Now don't get me wrong, I'm
sure it's a great magazine. But $50 for each issue? That's fairly strong
money.
That having been said...
The Chartered Insurance Institute in the UK is struggling with
membership engagement. When I joined the insurance industry in 1989
you'd have around 150 people giving up their Wednesday lunch hour to
attend a lecture on business interruption insurance. The wine tasting
and cocktail masterclasses I mentioned in my other email that they're
offering now? You have to pay a fiver to register so you've got a bit of
skin in the game, but from there, all your booze and nibbles are free.
And yet if 20 people turn up that's considered a right royal result.
So I can sort of see why the CPCU is doing this. If they can convert
this into engagement, maybe it isn't such a bad idea?
The only think I think the CPCU is missing is that in the UK, CII
qualifications are becoming sort of compulsory because as I've said in
my other email, we've got a lot of people starting via apprenticeship
schemes. But you can get Cert. CII after your name without too much
difficulty. I reckon pretty much everyone in RiskList could get that
fairly quickly - the only reason you lot couldn't simply take the exams
is the fact you'd need to know UK insurance law.
I've got Dip. CII which is the next level up. The one after that is
ACII. Not sure which one the CPCU designation matches. I'm guessing
somewhere in between those. The one after that is FCII which is
basically like an insurance PhD. When I started ACII was the entry level
one and that's not the easiest of things to do. I could probably get
that, but all of my credits from years ago have long since disappeared
and the CII's education secretary has told me not to bother.
So maybe the CPCU needs to make the main designation a degree-level
designation but then offer a Qualified-PCU designation for the entry
level stuff? That'd give people a route into the qualifications that
didn't require them to bite off more than they could chew? Or at least
give them a qualification early on in their career that they could then
use to progress to the higher levels?
Dave (Dip. CII)
Don Donaldson
compelled to add my 2 cents
(oh sorry, we don't have pennies anymore so I guess I have been upgraded
to a shinny nickel).
In the '80s I taught CPCU 6 (the legal environment of insurance) for
over 6 years in the Dallas CPCU
chapter. It was a 15 week deep dive into legal theory and legal issues
relating to insurance and insurance
contracts...difficult but not impossible. That was back when it was a
full 10 parts and the exams
were blue book essay answer...no multiple choice. One had to go through
the matriculation process
before being eligible to take their first exam.
You could only take 5 exams in a semester at that time due to scheduling
and only a very select few that I every knew were able to take and pass
5 exams in a single semester. I guess I am saying that regardless of
what real world,
practical knowledge was garnered, a CPCU designation reflected a serious
commitment to
insurance education. It was recognized throughout the industry at that
time as meaningful. Then things began to change.
The 90s brought massive change to the U.S. insurance industry and CPCU
began changing with it.
My regret is that the time and commitment of those professionals who
obtained the designation
when it was originally 5 parts and subsequently split into 10 has been
devalued by our industry to the level of
multiple choice exams and affiliation by membership.
Maybe Dave's right and it will garner interest and bring in a new
generation of participants, however, the
newbies will never understand what it was like to have to carry your
horse through the snow uphill
both ways to get to and from school.
Don (fully retired from everything but golf)
Greg Sosbee
The second issue is the easiest, note that what the CPCU Society has done is allow people to join the Society, but not be able to use "CPCU" after their name. I see Tom's issue, but if that helps the Society remain relevant that is fine with me.
The first issue is the never ending issue of "is risk management a part of insurance, or is insurance a part of risk management"? Well, both statements are true, the difference is in application.
Greg
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Bill Wilson
“Maybe Dave's right and it will garner interest and bring in a new generation of participants”
I was lurking through this thread until I read Dave's last post and felt compelled to add my 2 cents
(oh sorry, we don't have pennies anymore so I guess I have been upgraded to a shinny nickel).
In the '80s I taught CPCU 6 (the legal environment of insurance) for over 6 years in the Dallas CPCU
chapter. It was a 15 week deep dive into legal theory and legal issues relating to insurance and insurance
contracts...difficult but not impossible. That was back when it was a full 10 parts and the exams
were blue book essay answer...no multiple choice. One had to go through the matriculation process
before being eligible to take their first exam.
You could only take 5 exams in a semester at that time due to scheduling and only a very select few that I every knew were able to take and pass 5 exams in a single semester. I guess I am saying that regardless of what real world,
practical knowledge was garnered, a CPCU designation reflected a serious commitment to
insurance education. It was recognized throughout the industry at that time as meaningful. Then things began to change.
The 90s brought massive change to the U.S. insurance industry and CPCU began changing with it.
My regret is that the time and commitment of those professionals who obtained the designation
when it was originally 5 parts and subsequently split into 10 has been devalued by our industry to the level of
multiple choice exams and affiliation by membership.
Maybe Dave's right and it will garner interest and bring in a new generation of participants, however, the
newbies will never understand what it was like to have to carry your horse through the snow uphill
both ways to get to and from school.
Don (fully retired from everything but golf)
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Don Donaldson
society, those #s are actually
offensive in my opinion but not surprising.
Back when Jim Jones was the head of the society, I complained to him
that teaching faculty
had NO input on exam composition or content. He politely gave me a
verbal pat on the head and
said, effectively, that 'don't worry, we know what is best here in
Malvern.'
Scott LeMay
Off Having Fun In San Diego
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Dave Morgan
But Insurance *should* include Risk Management.
So I maintain that Insurance is a subset of Risk Management.
In fact, we make a mistake in thinking that Risk Management is about P&C
stuff. It's also about managing risk in investments, etc.
Dave
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Dave Morgan
Er... Aren't 2 and 5 the same?
I thought there were only four:
- Identify/Assess
- Eliminate - if possible
- Reduce
- Finance
Or something along those lines. Pretty sure they were different words, but I thought that was the process.
You can avoid any risk if you simply stop doing something, but that does tend to make the economy grind to a halt ;-)
Dave
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Bill Wilson
> On Dec 18, 2025, at 5:56 PM, Dave Morgan <da...@morganbishop.co.uk> wrote:
>
> Risk Management doesn't necessarily involve Insurance.
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Bill Wilson
LOSS CONTROL
Prevention
Reduction
Mitigation
TRANSFER
Insurance
Contractual
Financial/Hedging
RETENTION
Funded
Unfunded
> On Dec 18, 2025, at 9:05 PM, Bill Wilson <Insurance...@outlook.com> wrote:
>
> Insurance is a subset of the risk transfer component of risk management.
Dave Morgan
what you're dealing with.
Dave
Bill Wilson
Although I shouldn’t given that there are insurers advertising that they can sell a contractor a BOP in 10 minutes or an auto policy in 60 seconds.
Apparently everyone has identical exposures to loss.
> On Dec 18, 2025, at 9:33 PM, Dave Morgan <da...@morganbishop.co.uk> wrote:
>
> Identification and assessment first, surely? Otherwise you don't know what you're dealing with.
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Dave Morgan
"How am I supposed to tell the client that they need to insure for £4.5m?"
Greg Sosbee
My own experience verifies your observations, Scott.
My underwriting training began right after university graduation. The first requirement – complete the CPCU curriculum (the 5 Parts) within 3 years which I did. After 3 years I was an underwriting supervisor for a year then an underwriting manager for 2 years. Then went into Risk Management, eventually being hired to “straighten out” an international energy company’s captive operation. It was a mess, but I sorted that one out by splitting out the underwriting and the investment functions and installing a risk management culture by forming a risk management company. All of this led to the realization that risk management was greater than what I had learned/been taught. So, I changed directions and went to work in the financial area of an international company to hone my computer and financial skills and ended up taking a company out of bankruptcy.
Long boring story but the end is enterprise risk management which brings organizational strategy into the mix. While the ERM movement has made small steps over the past 25 years, there is still a long way to go. In ERM we group insurance in the Risk Transfer category and refer to captives as Risk Finance Facilities.
Greg
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Marshall & Swift book was used by many insurance professionals.
Pauline Thomas, CRM, CIC, ARM, CISR, FSRMC
CA License # 0519678
Effective Risk Management
Independent Insurance & Risk Management Consultants – No Insurance Sold
Phone 949-251-1500
From: 'AOL! EMAIL! SERVICE!!!' via RiskList <risk...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2025 9:56 AM
To: risk...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [RiskList] CPCU Society
What was the name of the book used to estimate building cost? Getting old is sometimes difficult
On Saturday, December 20, 2025, 12:34 PM, Dave Morgan <da...@morganbishop.co.uk> wrote:
Sadly, my experience of broking suggests that it isn't.
Actually, despite underinsurance being a big thing here in the UK at the moment, it's mostly a case of "let me have your current schedule so I've got the sums insured".
That's one of the reasons I decided to get out of the game.
I was mostly doing wholesale stuff during my last tour of duty. I'd be going back to the sub-brokers and suggesting that there's no way the figures were right.
The response was generally, "I've been in this business for 25 years and you're criticisng my judgement?!"
I had one where the the sub-broker asked me for a quote to increase the buildings sum insured from £400k to £600k and another quote to increase it to £800k. So I asked what it should actually be.
A quick look on Google suggested to me that it should be £2.5m. A couple of people I worked with agreed.
I said I wasn't renewing without a valuation survey That came in at £4.5m.
The sub-broker's response?
"How am I supposed to tell the client that they need to insure for £4.5m?"
Dave
-------- Original message --------
From: Bill Wilson <Insurance...@outlook.com>
Date: 19/12/2025 05:26 (GMT+01:00)
Subject: Re: [RiskList] CPCU Society
I assumed that was a given.
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Richard Betterley
On Dec 20, 2025, at 12:40 PM, Greg Sosbee <gr...@sosbee.net> wrote:
My own experience verifies your observations, Scott.
My underwriting training began right after university graduation. The first requirement – complete the CPCU curriculum (the 5 Parts) within 3 years which I did. After 3 years I was an underwriting supervisor for a year then an underwriting manager for 2 years. Then went into Risk Management, eventually being hired to “straighten out” an international energy company’s captive operation. It was a mess, but I sorted that one out by splitting out the underwriting and the investment functions and installing a risk management culture by forming a risk management company. All of this led to the realization that risk management was greater than what I had learned/been taught. So, I changed directions and went to work in the financial area of an international company to hone my computer and financial skills and ended up taking a company out of bankruptcy.
Long boring story but the end is enterprise risk management which brings organizational strategy into the mix. While the ERM movement has made small steps over the past 25 years, there is still a long way to go. In ERM we group insurance in the Risk Transfer category and refer to captives as Risk Finance Facilities.
Greg
From: risk...@googlegroups.com <risk...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Scott LeMay
Sent: Wednesday, 17 December, 2025 13:25
To: risk...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [RiskList] CPCU Society
Greg --
I'd say risk management and insurance are two circles of a Venn diagram that intersect to varying degrees.
The Risk Manager should recognize the use of insurance, and how risk management can affect the availability and cost of insurance.
The Insurance Practitioner should be aware of those perspectives from the other direction.
In the smallest businesses, the insurance buyer could be the business owner who also has the risk management duties, even if by default. The insurance practitioner may be in a position to provide insurance policies, but not consultation on risk management issues.
Things change greatly as the business revenues and employee counts increase. Managing risk and insurance for that risk becomes more formalized inside the business entity.
-- Scott
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