Tires for HHH tandem

[René Sterental]

Since today I paid for my tandem wheel set that Rich built, I've started thinking about tires for the tandem. Being a Compass tires fan, their best option is the 650b 48mm  Switchback Hill. 

I wonder if tires for a tandem have some specific requirements vs. tires for a regular bike that I'm not aware of. There would also be the consideration of the casing, standard vs. extra-light. All my Compass tires are extra-light and I just love them.

Any suggestions, feedback or insights? 

This will be my first tandem ever.

René 

[Bill Lindsay]

I picked up my tandem wheelset today.  I have a set of Pacenti Quasi Moto knobbies that I used to run on a Bombadil and that are too big for any of my 650B bikes today.  I'm going to use those for starters.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[René Sterental]

Hi Bill, how wide are the Quasi Motos?

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[Mark in Beacon]

Was it you, René, who mentioned hoping to get the SO interested in this bicycle? If so, a bit of extra flat tire protection might not be a terrible idea, especially with a tandem. I like just fine both the Kenda Kwik Seven.5 (1.75") that came stock on my Clementine, and the Big Ben Raceguard (27.5x2), currently out of stock at Rivendell. I imagine for the Hubbub these tires will be more than fine, while giving a bit of extra peace of mind.

The only tandem I had in 650B was my old Follis, which had, IIRC, maybe some kind of Michenlin. I was so excited to score this rig, but my significant other at the time never developed a taste, so I sold it. Now I ride a 26" Santana with my 7-year-old. If Tioga ever comes out with a 27.5 version of the PowerBlock, highly recommended.

Semi-gratuitous shot of 650b Follis tandem:

[Daniel Jackson]

Love that Follis

[Ray Varella]

Tandems have some ratty significant advantages over singles in terms of headwinds, crosswinds, downhills and general cruising.
A sturdier tire will not handicap general riding, especially on the cruiser/bomber type tandem the HHH will be.

The tandem I've owned for many years has both a caliper and a drum brake, making fixing rear flats a fair amount more of a hassle than on a typical single.

Personally, I would opt for a 55-60mm tirefrom a company like Schwalbe over a Compass tire.
I definitely would avoid the extra light casing compass tires for just about any tandem.
I think you are entering the territory of diminishing returns. Ask any stoker how much they feel bumps on the rear of the tandem.
They are just subjected to significantly higher loads than a sporty single.

Even on old Schwinn cruiser tandems with stock Schwinn cruiser tires, you could really get moving with two very average riders.

My humble opinion would suggest a tire more in line with the design of the HHH.

Ray
Vallejo CA

[Bill Lindsay]

They were about 52mm on normal rims. On these wide Alex rims they probably will be even wider. I'll let you know when I have them mounted.

[Michael Hechmer]

We  have run the compass 45mm tires - I forget the name - for the past year,  without undue problems.  We ride a mixture of dirt and paved roads but pretty much all rural.  We did have two flats, in quick succession.  They are very comfortable and roll well.

Michael

On Tuesday, February 21, 2017 at 5:35:21 PM UTC-5, René wrote:

[Ruben Flores]

One other bit of info on tandem tires. You will burn thru them faster than you expect. We use 120psi on our roadie and only get about 800 miles out of a rear, often the issue is sidewall tesr but ask your stoker what they think of s pothole blowout.

After a few cycles we went with the front to rear rotation.

[Julian Westerhout]

The good news  is that unless you're running 25c or narrower tires on a tandem there is no reason to use such high pressures. 

On our first tandem we used 32s and 35s at about 80-90 psi. 

On our second we run 650b x 42 Hetres at 60-65 psi. 

On the HHH we anticipate 55+ and 45 psi. 

Tandem tires do wear out more quickly than singles, though. We get ~ 1500 from the Hetres, and I replace them a bit earlier than I probably need to. Lower pressures on wider tires will add greatly to comfort for both captain and stoker, and will add to tire life -- I think sidewall failures are more likely at really high pressures. 

FWIW, we're not a small team (my half, anyway). I'm 6'7" and 250 lbs, my stoker is 5'2" and 110 lbs, and every year we do at least one loaded self-supported primarily camping tour, sometimes with panniers, sometimes with a trailer, and sometimes with both. 

Julian Westerhout

Bloomington, IL 

[René Sterental]

Thanks to all for your feedback. I still feel inclined to go with the standard Compass tires, as I haven't had any problems with MTB compass tires compared to the previous Schwalbe tires and love their suppleness. We'll see... wonder if a wider less supple tire somehow offsets their lesser suppleness. Has anyone done a direct comparison?

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[René Sterental]

I e-mailed Compass Cycles and Gave highly recommended the 650b 48mm Switchback Hill with the regular casing and said they know a number of heavy tandem riders who've used them with no issues at all. So I placed my order. Will report once everything is built and ridden. Can't wait.

On Wed, Feb 22, 2017 at 1:34 PM, René Sterental <orth...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks to all for your feedback. I still feel inclined to go with the standard Compass tires, as I haven't had any problems with MTB compass tires compared to the previous Schwalbe tires and love their suppleness. We'll see... wonder if a wider less supple tire somehow offsets their lesser suppleness. Has anyone done a direct comparison?

On Wed, Feb 22, 2017 at 10:44 AM Julian Westerhout <weste...@gmail.com> wrote:

The good news  is that unless you're running 25c or narrower tires on a tandem there is no reason to use such high pressures. 

On our first tandem we used 32s and 35s at about 80-90 psi. 

On our second we run 650b x 42 Hetres at 60-65 psi. 

On the HHH we anticipate 55+ and 45 psi. 

Tandem tires do wear out more quickly than singles, though. We get ~ 1500 from the Hetres, and I replace them a bit earlier than I probably need to. Lower pressures on wider tires will add greatly to comfort for both captain and stoker, and will add to tire life -- I think sidewall failures are more likely at really high pressures. 

FWIW, we're not a small team (my half, anyway). I'm 6'7" and 250 lbs, my stoker is 5'2" and 110 lbs, and every year we do at least one loaded self-supported primarily camping tour, sometimes with panniers, sometimes with a trailer, and sometimes with both. 

Julian Westerhout

Bloomington, IL 

On Wednesday, February 22, 2017 at 10:06:51 AM UTC-6, Ruben Flores wrote:

One other bit of info on tandem tires. You will burn thru them faster than you expect. We use 120psi on our roadie and only get about 800 miles out of a rear, often the issue is sidewall tesr but ask your stoker what they think of s pothole blowout.

After a few cycles we went with the front to rear rotation.

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[Ray Varella]

Using them on road exclusively or on trails?

Did you ask that Rene?

I'm sure they will roll great. I'll be curious to hear how they hold up on bumpy and rutted trails.

Those HHH tandems will make really fun trail bikes.

Ray
Vallejo.

[Bill Lindsay]

I think my quasi motos were more like 50mm on Synergy rims. They are 53mm on these wide rims.

[Tony DeFilippo]

I ran Compass 700c x 35mm regular casing on my Burly tandem for a 2-3 day 135 mile C&O canal and rail trail ride to July's ago. Combined team and cargo weight was a pretty robust ~450lbs. I had three flats the first day, all rear, exhausting my spare tubes. After adjusting weight to front panniers and being more mindful of my steering technique day 2 was much better - it also was over half on pavement.

Anyway, we haven't done significant mileage since due to pregnancy and having a small child but when we do return to the tandem it'll be with a heavier tire.

I love compass tires and maybe the 48's, especially tubeless, would be enough cushion to overcome the flat problems I had. I did have some correspondence with cold after the fact and they recommended upping the tire pressure to about for the extra weight which also seems smart.

Tony

[Ryan Thompson]

Like Tony I plan to ride my HHH on the C&O towpath and think I'll go with Big Bens.  I have a set on my Xtracycle'd vintage mountain bike and with hauling two kids over many miles I've never had a flat and they still manage to provide a good ride.

Ryan

Arlington, VA

[Michael Hechmer]

All improvements are governed by the law of diminishing returns.  Going from 28 mm tires to 38 mm tires yields a big improvement on comfort; from 38 to 48mm offers offers less but still noticeable improvement in comfort without any noticeable loss in rolling.  Going from 48 to 58 will yield little improvement in comfort while complicating other things, like frame design, brake choice & fender selection.  My tandem rode very comfortably on 1.5 tires for 5 years.  Last year I went with 1.8 (which also required new brakes) and liked the improvement, but it was not huge, even with 450lbs of weight on them.  I have ridden a single on the C&O very comfortably on 38 mm tires.

Michael 

On Thursday, February 23, 2017 at 7:53:38 AM UTC-5, Tony DeFilippo wrote:

[René Sterental]

I asked them about paved and dirt trails, but didn't specifically mention gnarly rutted/rocky trails. But I believe that with this in mind, they recommended the standard sidewall instead of the ultralight. 

Michael makes a good point about the diminishing returns, which I believe would also apply, for the HHH, on the sidewall thickness. Still, at this time I'm not planning any gnarly rides, so we'll see what happens as I ride them. 

René 

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[Alex Wirth- Owner, Yellow Haus Bicycles]

Currently split between the WTB Horizon (~48mm) because I have a pair laying around and Thunder Burts....because they are my latest tire obsession.

[Daniel Jackson]

Compass SBH Standard casing going on ours. Talked to Paul today at Paul Component and decided to spec some Motolites over the Honjo H-80 fender. He was certain clearances would work well.

Excited to put this all together in time for summer travels.

[Paul Burns]

Looking for tires for HHH, 70% on paved road, 30% dirt roads. Would really prefer tan sidewall. Compass sound great, but am concerned re flats/durability. Considering WTB Horizon 47 and Panaracer GravelKing 48. Which would be better? Any other (wider) suggestions?

Also: am assuming tubed is the way HHH riders go, but happy to be educated.

Thank you

[Alex Wirth- Owner, Yellow Haus Bicycles]

Schwalbe marathon supremes are working well for us. Had some thunderburts on there but the casing was too supple for the weight and we ended up having to way overinflate and had subsequent flat issues. You’ll want something with a fairly substantial casing so you don’t have to compensate with air pressure.

[Marc Pfister]

On Sunday, June 9, 2019 at 2:25:27 PM UTC-6, Paul Burns wrote:

Looking for tires for HHH, 70% on paved road, 30% dirt roads.  Would really prefer tan sidewall.   Compass sound great, but am concerned re flats/durability.  Considering WTB Horizon 47 and Panaracer GravelKing 48. 

My current not-a-hubbuh tandem has the GravelKing 48s on it, running tubes with tubeless sealant. This bike probably sees at least 75% of its mileage on dirt roads in goathead country. I have not had a single flat or cut in the past year.

The upcoming Hubbuh is going to run 60mm Schwalbe G-One Speeds tubeless. This tire only comes in blackwall, but there's a 50mm non-tubeless version available in tanwall.

WTB has a 50mm version of the Venture coming out, and there's a tubeless tanwall version.

Similar but slightly skinnier is the 47mm Teravail Cannonball, which is available in tubeless tanwall version too.

- Marc Pfister

Windsor CO

[Paul Burns]

Thanks, all, appreciated.  Am going to start with the 50mm G-One Speeds.

Am scared to try tubeless, mostly because I am old fashioned/out of touch/don't understand/haven't tried it.  Thoughts on the advisability of that with tandems?

[Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY]

Though they rarely get a chance to roll, my HHH and I love our 60mm g-ones mounted tubeless on cliffhangers. And the same tires mounted tubeless, also with cliffhangers, on my Rosco Bubbe are way way way way preferable to tubed when rolling around the mean streets of NYC. I go through roughly 100 ounces of sealant in a year (4 oz a fill), but refilling sealant is easy compared to all those tube swaps.
-Kai

[Paul Burns]

thanks--that's interesting and helpful.  I'm a little concerned about what i might be contributing to the environment with all the sealant I would use and its related packaging/transport/embedded energy/etc. i don't change tubes very often and can just pump them up with elbow grease when needed.

Thanks

- Paul

On Wed, Jun 12, 2019 at 11:28 AM Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY <kaivi...@gmail.com> wrote:

Though they rarely get a chance to roll, my HHH and I love our 60mm g-ones mounted tubeless on cliffhangers. And the same tires mounted tubeless, also with cliffhangers, on my Rosco Bubbe are way way way way preferable to tubed when rolling around the mean streets of NYC. I go through roughly 100 ounces of sealant in a year (4 oz a fill), but refilling sealant is easy compared to all those tube swaps.
-Kai

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[Adam Leibow]

I didn't read the whole thread so apologies if this has been stated: the tire pressures required for tandem weights are much higher than normal to support two peoples' weight. Compass EL seems risky to me for sidewall blow out. I have the WTB horizons on mine, which seem just strong enough not to cause worry but ride fairly lively and smooth. 

[Mark in Beacon]

You will not blow out a sidewall due to air pressure requirements of a tandem. Tires are tested well beyond stated maximum pressure, and you probably won't even hit that.

[Alex Wirth- Owner, Yellow Haus Bicycles]

My advice as a former shop owner is go tubes-in. The last thing you want is a tubeless tire coming unseated at speed on a tandem.

(I also ride a hubbah)

My two cents

Alex in Rochester