Front Derailer Adjustment

[Doug H.]

I want to tap into the collective knowledge here. I need to adjust my Shimano Deore front derailer on my Clem. It looks to be aligned properly. Is it proper to tighten the cable when the chain is on the small ring and largest rear cog? Should the H and L screws be all the way screwed in when I start the adjustment? I was able to get it to shift but the low screw is pretty much all the way out so it just seems to be off in some way. And, after a couple of rides it seems to come back out of adjustment. Any advice would be most appreciated. 

Doug

[Scott Luly]

There's an order of operations to proper adjustment.

Have you tried the Park Tool website? They have some great videos for that.

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[Scott Luly]

Also, you can hop onto the Shimano website and locate your FD model's Service Instructions that will demonstrate step-by-step. I can send you the link later.

Scott 

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[Doug H.]

Hey Scott,

I will do that. Thank you.

Doug

[Richard Rose]

I recently replaced the Deore on my Clem with a nearly identical XTR. Only did so because it was cheap @ a tubeless tire explosion coated the Deore with sealant. That stuff just will not come off!

A way I had never installed / tuned one before. The supplied instructions were very helpful - it was a cinch! If I can find those instruction I will see if I can forward some pics. In the meantime, I think Shimano provides access to these very same instructions on line.

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On Dec 3, 2022, at 2:41 PM, Doug H. <dhansf...@gmail.com> wrote:

I want to tap into the collective knowledge here. I need to adjust my Shimano Deore front derailer on my Clem. It looks to be aligned properly. Is it proper to tighten the cable when the chain is on the small ring and largest rear cog? Should the H and L screws be all the way screwed in when I start the adjustment? I was able to get it to shift but the low screw is pretty much all the way out so it just seems to be off in some way. And, after a couple of rides it seems to come back out of adjustment. Any advice would be most appreciated. 

Doug

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[Doug H.]

That would be great. Thank you. I know it should be easy! And, if I learn to read instructions that would be most helpful. ;)

Doug

[Scott Luly]

Doug:

Chew on these...

https://www.parktool.com/en-us/blog/repair-help/front-derailleur-adjustment

https://si.shimano.com/en/#/en/search/Series?name=XTR&generation=Archive&type=MTB

On the Shimano site do some surfing around to find your FD model Service Instructions.

Bon appetit,

Scott

https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/2fa695ee-c562-44ce-a664-59f2f281ae9en%40googlegroups.com

.

[Joe Bernard]

The way I do it was self-taught decades ago and no doubt wrong but it works so here goes:

Chain in small front/big rear like you said, L and H screws all the way out, then I adjust the L screw to get the cage just inboard enough to clear the chain. That's my low position for the derailer, I know I dont want it swinging any closer to the frame. Now I tighten the cable at the clamp and shift to the big front/small rear. Is the fd getting my chain over to the big ring? Good, now I'm screwing the H limit in just far enough to keep the chain from overshifting and tossing the chain between the ring and crankarm. 

Once I've gotten this far I ride a bit to dial the L and H screws, often on the first try one or the other isn't quite right and I'm not getting enough travel to knock the chain to the next ring. 

Easy! 😂

[Joe Bernard]

Of course I forget something. The cable gets tightened down (after the L setting is done) with the shifter in its most forward position, the cable is let out as much as it will go. 

[Doug Hansford]

Joe these are excellent instructions. My mistake is not leaving the cable loose when adjusting the low limit. Thanks!!

Doug

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On Dec 3, 2022, at 5:00 PM, Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:

Of course I forget something. The cable gets tightened down (after the L setting is done) with the shifter in its most forward position, the cable is let out as much as it will go. 

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[Joe Bernard]

Trial and error bro! Basically you need the range of motion between L and H to cover the chainrings, and the cable pinched down so the shifter will move the cage through that range.

If the shifter starts slipping you'll need to crank down on the bolt there. Silver thumbies have a little ring you turn, SunRace/Microshift use a hex bolt. 

[Joe Bernard]

Apologies to anyone who thinks I'm explaining the obvious, I've learned over the years to start at "explain everything, assume nothing" and it's served me well. And as I said in my first post, I'm probably doing it all wrong! 😬

[Doug Hansford]

It may be obvious to some but I appreciate the detail. 

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On Dec 3, 2022, at 6:11 PM, Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:

Apologies to anyone who thinks I'm explaining the obvious, I've learned over the years to start at "explain everything, assume nothing" and it's served me well. And as I said in my first post, I'm probably doing it all wrong! 😬

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/12777b60-0c9e-4951-8c3f-b8f3694fac2cn%40googlegroups.com.

[Scott Luly]

Joe,

I appreciate the error on overshare/overstate philosophy.  I'm happy to discard what I already know and treasure hunt for what I don't know.

I'm more likely to get annoyed with a lack of explanation/clarification than too much.

I'm here to learn, not show what I know.

My knowledge toolbox has grown - plenty of which from you - in the short time I've been in the group.

Scott

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[Joe Bernard]

I do what I can, Scott! Just don't ask me how to bleed hydraulic brakes or set sag on a suspension fork. I barely know what those words even mean 😬

[John Hawrylak]

Doug

It sounds like the FD does not move far enough to the inside to shift to the granny of a triple with the low adjustment screw all the way out.  A possibility is your FD is designed for a front chain line greater than you actual front chain line.   FD have about 20mm of sideway motion and if the front chain lines are mismatched AND the crank ring spacing is > 5mm, the FD can move to the granny.

Suggestion:

Measure the front chain line to the middle chain ring and compare it to the design value for the FD

Measure the front chain line of the granny ring.  If the middle - granny is > 5mm (like 7 to 8 mm on a Sugino XD/TD crank you may have a problem.

Possible solution:  Get an old triple FD designed for a 45 mm front chain line, like a FD-MT-60 form the 80's.  I bought a Sora FD-3030b (9spd) with a FCL of 45m and it shifts a Sugino TD-2 46-36-26 with problem.  The XT-FD-M781-AX6S had a FCL of about 50mm and could not shift to the 28T granny.  TD-2 ring spacing is 8mm Outer to Middle and 5mm Inner to Small.   I bought the Sora from Universal Cycles  for $34.88.  My FD-MT60 also shifted it fine, part of a Biopace crank on a 88 Schwinn Voyaguer.

John Hawrylak

Woodstown NJ

[Doug H.]

John,

My chain ring is a double...38x24. I think it will work if I can get it adjusted. That is some good information though and I will keep it in mind. The collective knowledge here in this group is a fantastic resource.

Doug

[Junes]

Joe, you’re incredibly generous with your knowledge and experience. Thank you!! I’ve learned so much from your contributions to this community, and I very much appreciate the basics, too. The deeper I get into working on my bikes myself, the more I understand that 1) the notion of bike “standards” is hilarious and 2) what might be obvious to one person is not at all obvious to another. Everyone starts somewhere. You’re a great teacher, and you instruct with humor and kindness. 

On Dec 3, 2022, at 20:22, Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:

I do what I can, Scott! Just don't ask me how to bleed hydraulic brakes or set sag on a suspension fork. I barely know what those words even mean 😬

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/3c7229fd-2078-4ce1-8064-776050ee74b9n%40googlegroups.com.

[Ray Varella]

I’ve always done my initial  derailer adjustments before I install the chain. 

Front and rear both get installed and before the cable is connected I adjust the limit screw so that the front’s cage is centered on the small ring and the rear pulleys are centered on the small cog. 

Then I install the cables  and take up the slack, cinch the cable, run through the range of motion a few times to set the housing in the  ferrules. 

Then check the slack. 

Next, install the chain and run through the gears being careful not to run the chain into the spokes. 

Like Joe said, it can take a bot of fine tuning to get things perfect so I take my screwdriver and Allen wrench on a test ride. 

Getting the gross adjustment really close will minimize the fine tuning. 

Ray “also self taught many decades ago“  Varella

[Doug H.]

Ray,

Excellent idea about adjusting before installing the chain. That makes sense. I think I was able to get my FD adjusted. It is working well so far. Thanks all for your help.

Doug

[Joe Bernard]

Indeed, I never thought of that. I didn't self-teach myself that part! 

[Garth]

I was all set to write about doing it this way or that way, but honestly, I've never done it the same way twice as each and every "situation" is different. Just like reading and writing this, I can't say there is any prescribed way to do it, it rather "just happens" spontaneously and creatively, and it's Wonderfull !

[Doug H.]

Garth,

I need to heed this advice and more so this attitude! My frustration might have lead to a few choice words during the process but finally getting it right is satisfying and gratifying. All hail the bicycle for its simplicity and intricacy all at the same time.

Doug