briar tires

[Tom Horton]

some advice please. I'm outfitting an MIT atlantis 62 for riding forest roads and trails  where I live on the eastern shore of maryland. not real rough riding, though sandy in patches, BUT we have an eastern native species, greenbriar (smilax), which is not goathead level in its ability to flat tires, but still a tough customer.

I'd prefer to go the tough tire route vs slime or other sealant in the tubes. the schwalbe marathon plus is one way, but mighty heavy and not quite as wide as I'd prefer. schwalbe makes a smart sam with something called double defense, nylon/kevlar belt, that looks pretty good and I think their 2.25 inch would fit the atlantis without fenders.

anyone have experience with those tires, or others? and I often ride pavement to get to the trails.

[Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY]

If it's an option, tubeless is the best thing since tubes.
Or big tubes with sealant, big because the less a sealant filled tube needs to expand, the better.
-Kai

[Tom Horton]

Hey kai tubeless not an option but yeah sealant might be worth another try My first attempt was unsatisfactory

Still i dream of the perfect no muss no fuss greenbriar defeating tire

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[Matt D]

Why isn't tubeless an option? Haven't got an appropriate wheelset, no budget for it, just don't like the idea?

I'm not a huge fan of tubeless for most purposes but that's a use case for which I would certainly consider it. The reason it's so popular in MTB is that you can run lower pressures for more comfort and better traction without the danger of a pinch flat. It's also popular with people riding super-supple tires like Compass/Rene Herse on road and gravel because you can run thinner casings if you don't have to worry about a ride-ending series of flats from small things like thorns.

Your use case is somewhere in between, you're riding trails but you aren't riding hard enough to risk PF'ing on a rock garden so the reason you're doing it is more similar to that of the Bicycle Quarterly adherent. Tires with tons of belts and protection don't feel very good and don't conform around obstacles as well, meaning that you have less traction offroad. You can probably get the same flat protection without tubeless but you'll cost yourself ride quality. In your situation I would use a 48mm Gravelking SK set up tubeless on Velocity Cliffhanger or VO Voyager rims.

[Tom Horton]

I have thought about tubeless and haven t convinced myself it s worth new rims and needing to remember to renew sealant occasionally   It s flat down here on the delmarva peninsula and few rocks—we were basically ocean bottom not that long ago— so traction and pinch flats not biggies.

But if i do go that route i think gravel kings perfect  i have some in lesser width on my quickbeam  with tubes

Wonder how thorn proof those new endurance plus casings from compass/herse are?  I sure like their standard tires on pavement

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[Patrick Moore]

I've used only 1 extralight model, but from my experience with thorns, I'd bet $15 that they won't protect sufficiently for your tastes against goatheads. Pre-Stan's and Orange Seal, I used Kojaks (35 labeled/32 actual) on a couple of my road bikes; the puncture belt sufficed to keep goathead punctures down to about 1 every 30 miles, which I considered to be the preferable commuting and errand choice to riding dog tires; I went through most of a yearly purchase of 200 Remas a year, though of course this use included other bikes with other tires, some of which were 23 mm wide racing tires and got slightly fewer miles per flat than the Kojaks but not hugely so; and 60 mm Big Apples, which had a really effective puncture belt, and which would be punctured by goatheads much less frequently, tho' they weren't flat free -- but the BAs weigh literally 2X what my current fat tires weigh.

The only systems I've found to be almost 100% proof against thorns are: Modern Stan's and Orange Seal, used with as light a tire as you like (175 gram 559 X 28s; 450 gram 722 X 60s) -- tubeless for lower pressures, tubed with sufficient road-like pressures -- tubeless works somewhat better; or the pre-sealant standard around here, which was a heavy, heavy, belted tire with thorn proof tube (2 lb in 700C C 50 size, no kidding, but you can get them for 25s-28s) + tire liner + Slime. Result = bow wow.

The local roadies used to cut the beads off a used racing tire and use that as a liner between tube and new tire; gain, too woofy for me.

II haven't used Big Apples for years, but they do reduce your puncture repair to I'd guess about 1 about every 100 miles, this on pavement where the hard surface seems to push the thorn through the casing. On dirt, I've very often come out with literally dozens of thorns in front and rear tread, brushed them off, and ridden away without air loss.  60 mm, 15 to 20 psi, normal tube, no sealant.

On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 12:38 PM Tom Horton <swan...@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Wonder how thorn proof those new endurance plus casings from compass/herse are?  I sure like their standard tires on pavement

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Patrick Moore

Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique

[Patrick Moore]

I meant to say of course: "but from my experience, and extrapolating from these to the Endurance casings, I'll bet $15 that the Endurance casings wont ...."

On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 7:24 PM Patrick Moore <bert...@gmail.com> wrote:

I've used only 1 extralight model, but from my experience with thorns, I'd bet $15 that they won't protect sufficiently for your tastes against goatheads.

--

[tom horton]

big apples might be worth a try. haven’t dealt with goatheads/puncturevine, but they seem even worse than our greenbriar. I can change a tire fine, just don’t want to be doing it every week, especially on winter rides through the forests when it’s cold enough your hands don’t work so well.

thanks for all the advice.

[Joe Bernard]

I've used Big Apples on a few 20"-wheel folders. Great puncture protection, and they seem less sluggish than Marathons.

[j.schwartz]

I really like this name for these type of tires.
I may put Briar Tires on my Hillibike.

[ctifusion]

I am currently riding Big Apples on my 60cm MIT Atlantis and I can fully recommend them. I have used lighter tires like Compass, which I love on other bikes, but the Big Apples seem like a natural fit to me. They're hefty, but seem to match the feel of the big Atlantis. I assume they are about as puncture resistant as you can get, and yet they have a distinct feel that I really like.

Brynnar

indy

[Philip Williamson]

I have 38mm nice-ish road tires on the Quickbeam. I have tubes with sealant. I’ve picked up a number of goatheads, and the sealant sealed the hole when I picked the thorns off.
If I had further issues, I’d install some tire savers (thorn flickers) in addition to the Stans in the tubes. I think that would cover you.

Philip
Santa Rosa, CA

[Rick Thompson]

I'm in severe goathead country in N. CA. Only two approaches have worked reliably for me:

1. My go fast rando bike has tubeless RH wide supple tires with sealant. These did not work as well tubed with sealant, after many thorn punctures the sealant leaked between tire and tube then they would slowly leak.
2. My e-bike commuter has Marathon Plus. I tried Big Apples, there were a few thorn and tire wire flats. 6 months on the Marathons no flats so far.

[peec...@yahoo.com]

I tried Gravel Kings for my MIT Atlantis. Didn't like how they handled loose gravel.  I am pleased with a tire made WTB.com.  Check out their website.  

Tim Petersen

[Tom Horton]

I have decided to go with my existing schwalbe allrounders and try stans sealant. so far so good, after maybe fifty miles of forest trail riding. if it doesn't do the trick I will probably just go for the marathon plus, maybe their mtb version for good measure. the schwalbes, at about 57mm (stated size, not measured), do a very good job of traversing frequent patches of sand common here on maryland's eastern shore.  and I am finding the mit atlantis with those big schwalbes to be a fine all around bicycle.

thanks for all the comments.

[JohnS]

Since you're talking tires. Has anyone tired the Schwalbe Marathon Almotion in the 38c folding (500g)? Looks a lot like Little Big Ben's, but an nearly twice the price. I suppose it has better flat protection than the LBB's. I love the LBB's but they are not in stock, nor are do they hold up that well against the broken glass in Baltimore alleys. 

Thanks,

JohnS

On Sunday, November 10, 2019 at 3:42:25 PM UTC-5, Tom Horton wrote:

[Tom Horton]

Re briar tires as a brand name  suitable for hillibikes  the first model could be dubbed briar rabbits  with apologies to uncle remus

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