RO's Code Speed

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Richard

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Nov 7, 2015, 6:22:25 AM11/7/15
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As a matter of historical interest, how fast do you think most RO's can
copy? The more you practice the better you become, so RO's must have
been pretty fast.

When I was young and ignorant, rather than old, (and ignorant) one
reason I didn't go to sea was my code speed was too low, and I wasn't
sure I wanted to copy code 8 hours every day. Now I'm good for 30-35,
half copy at 40, and short words at 50. I think I have plateaued.

Richard, AA1P

David Oakden

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Nov 7, 2015, 6:49:39 AM11/7/15
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Speed was not the issue - Fist shot reception 100% was the order of the day. So in bad statec QSB conditions speed could be down to 3 or 4 words a minute.   Good conditions about 20 wpm . Some telegrams could be over 2000 words so you dont want errors . In my case I always did CK50 which meant check every 50 words.,
So accuracy not speed
73s
David ex GZWD



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R/O David Ring - N1EA

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Nov 7, 2015, 2:31:01 PM11/7/15
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I echo David's comments.


100% first try reception was the order of the day.  Repetitions cut the code speed by at least half - at least for the repeated content.

SLIDELL RADIO /WNU was part of what was left of the Great White Fleet who advertised for the best Morse operators - their advertisements said solid copy at 45 but they told me just to come down and interview for the job.

I did find that many of the operators there could copy 45 wpm and faster - Jan Edwards, Fred Joy, the fellow from the CIA who was one of the best, but I have forgotten his name, Frank Estrada - he could copy anything you threw at him, but sent at 18 to 20 wpm on his hand key.  FE (Frank Estrada) was the month-to-month traffic champ of WNU - probably because he was all business unlike the other fast ops who also chatted a bit with the R/O's they knew - not much but maybe "Hi DR big storm out there, hope ur doing ok" and things like that.

Normal traffic speed at the coast stations was 27 wpm - the so-called Western Union standard speed.  Tropical Radio did a follow up survey and found that if the speed was dropped to 26 wpm, the traffic totals dropped and if the speed was increased to 28 wpm the traffic totals dropped due to reception errors and transmission repeats.  So 27 wpm became the order of the day.

But also with commercial practice, anything above 25 wpm was double spaced.  Word spaces were doubled and fast "DITTY" letter combinations were slowly fed to the receiving operator to prevent typewriter jams.

R E E F E R I N G   CARGO   OPERATIONS   BETWE E N   MIDNIGHT   AND  NOON   STOP

I hope the above line illustrates what I am talking about sufficiently.

I hope this isn't what our vintage 1990 Irish R/O is speaking of when he says inconsistent spacing!

73
DR

D.J.J. Ring, Jr.

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Nov 7, 2015, 2:56:20 PM11/7/15
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To be clearer to answer RB's exact question.

I found that most shipboard R/O's could copy 27 wpm and many could copy 33 at least for short periods and for WX reports where the words weren't unknown to them in advance.  How many variations of WINDS FROM THE SOUTH are there to stump an R/O, anyway (not a question for further discussion, please.)

I found that if you started sending 40 wpm or faster under good to ideal conditions to a coast station, the operator would tell you to "WAIT" and they'd put on one of their fastest operators.

They also did this - and so did I - when a particular ship board R/O's style of sending was particularly frustrating to an operator, as poor YL op on Y5CC was to me.  She elongated the second (and only the second) dot but only when it was the last dot sent.  So for R I was copying W and so on.  The other fast speed op, my dear friend, Walter Kane, III could copy her with his eyes closed, his excellent USCG training saw to that.

But I have found operators at WPA - Port Arthur - Skip (also known as "Fly Boy") who is a member of this group could copy 65 wpm easily - he would ask for "confirmation" but not a repeat of critical number-letter groups in parts lists for parts requisitions from the Chief Engineer.  He got them 100% correct all the time.

I could list many of the list members who were outstanding technicians and speedy Morse operators who could send and receive flawlessly above 50 wpm.

I would say that most of them had also worked at coast stations and I would consider them the best of the ship operators.

Ship operators only had to be able to copy 20 wpm and except for the White Fleet of United Brands / United Fruit, few companies asked for more.  White Fleet asked for 35 wpm for their R/O's - which was an achievable speed for most R/Os with a bit of experience if they were allowed a semi-automatic key to send with.

Few R/O's kept the ability to send 25 wpm on a straight key through out their lives, but some have, but very few.

73
DR


Conor Daly

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Nov 7, 2015, 3:04:44 PM11/7/15
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Nah, I see what you're getting at there, different thing. I was
talking more about characters being run together and bad spacing
between words. One of the operators at Genoa/ICB was always doing
this on their keyer and adding too many dits to his/her characters. If
they wound their speed back just a few wpms it would have ironed out
their sending in a week. 27 is a nice speed to work at. I recall the
traffic lists and WX from WLO were at about that speed with that teeny
bit of extra spacing.

Mike Zbrozek

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Nov 7, 2015, 3:11:17 PM11/7/15
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Hello Group -
 
I sailed from 1980-1996 with differant companies and Unions....releaving all sorts of
Radio Officers. I found that most stayed away from CW if possible. Most of these guys
sent their obs and amvers via Inmarsat. Thats what they told me before they left the
Radio Room to me. So all this talk about code copying speed makes me wonder who
out there were such great cw men. I sent obs and amvers via cw as a matter of pride in my profession.
But all company tfc was via tlx/satellite....thats what the companies wanted. It was nice to be on a cw only ship,
that was the Jean Lykes/WLAH. I also was on a sitor only ship once, OMI Missouri/WBKX.
On both ships the tfc was low and less BS from the company. Nice.........
I wonder how much tfc goes to ships now via Internet/Satcomm?
 
 
73
Mike K8XF
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2015 2:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Radio Officers, &c] RO's Code Speed

To be clearer to answer RB's exact question.

I found that most shipboard R/O's could copy 27 wpm and many could copy 33 at least for short periods and for WX reports where the words weren't unknown to them in advance.  How many variations of WINDS FROM THE SOUTH are there to stump an R/O, anyway (not a question for further discussion, please.)


I found that if you started sending 40 wpm or faster under good to ideal conditions to a coast station, the operator would tell you to "WAIT" and they'd put on one of their fastest operators.

They also did this - and so did I - when a particular ship board R/O's style of sending was particularly frustrating to an operator, as poor YL op on Y5CC was to me.  She elongated the second (and only the second) dot but only when it was the last dot sent.  So for R I was copying W and so on.  The other fast speed op, my dear friend, Walter Kane, III could copy her with his eyes closed, his excellent USCG training saw to that.

But I have found operators at WPA - Port Arthur - Skip (also known as "Fly Boy") who is a member of this group could copy 65 wpm easily - he would ask for "confirmation" but not a repeat of critical number-letter groups in parts lists for parts requisitions from the Chief Engineer.  He got them 100% correct all the time.


I could list many of the list members who were outstanding technicians and speedy Morse operators who could send and receive flawlessly above 50 wpm.

I would say that most of them had also worked at coast stations and I would consider them the best of the ship operators.

Ship operators only had to be able to copy 20 wpm and except for the White Fleet of United Brands / United Fruit, few companies asked for more.  White Fleet asked for 35 wpm for their R/O's - which was an achievable speed for most R/Os with a bit of experience if they were allowed a semi-automatic key to send with.


Few R/O's kept the ability to send 25 wpm on a straight key through out their lives, but some have, but very few.

73
DR


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Conor Daly

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Nov 7, 2015, 3:11:49 PM11/7/15
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Interestingly, I could eventually after a few years and a lot of
practice receive stuff in a foreign language such as Russian shore to
ship traffic at 40+ wpm but it it was in English above 30 wpm, I'd
eventually trip up on an unusual word as my guessing impulse would
kick in until I learned to control it. I think all operators had these
issues at one time or other.

Mike Zbrozek

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Nov 7, 2015, 3:31:32 PM11/7/15
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Hello Group -

It just hit me that after I sent my comments regarding code speed...
most guys that worked for oil companies didnt place that much value on cw
skills.
You had Inmarsat for tfc so they tried their best at being a great tech,
staying in
port working on stuff, etc...in hope of impressing the company e.g. Arco,
Exxon,
etc that when 500 goes the companies will keep them on as Ships Radio Tech.
I knew that would never happen, so I went ashore all the time unless I had
to fix
something in port, or stay and watch a teck fix something I didnt have parts
for.
All those guys sacrificed their port and look what happened to our
profession.

Viva CW
73
Mike K8XF



----- Original Message -----
From: "Conor Daly" <conifer...@gmail.com>
To: <radio-o...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2015 3:11 PM
Subject: Re: [Radio Officers, &c] RO's Code Speed


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COURY...@aol.com

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Nov 7, 2015, 3:32:42 PM11/7/15
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In the SMECC Communications museum we have some Huge contact wireless keys  from the teens and early 20s ( and always looking for more keys and gar line  this)  and I have always wondered how  fast an operator was able to send  with one of these monsters. ??
 
Thanks Ed Sharpe archivist  for SMECC
 
 
In a message dated 11/7/2015 12:56:20 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, djri...@gmail.com writes:
To be clearer to answer RB's exact question.

I found that most shipboard R/O's could copy 27 wpm and many could copy 33 at least for short periods and for WX reports where the words weren't unknown to them in advance.  How many variations of WINDS FROM THE SOUTH are there to stump an R/O, anyway (not a question for further discussion, please.)


I found that if you started sending 40 wpm or faster under good to ideal conditions to a coast station, the operator would tell you to "WAIT" and they'd put on one of their fastest operators.

They also did this - and so did I - when a particular ship board R/O's style of sending was particularly frustrating to an operator, as poor YL op on Y5CC was to me.  She elongated the second (and only the second) dot but only when it was the last dot sent.  So for R I was copying W and so on.  The other fast speed op, my dear friend, Walter Kane, III could copy her with his eyes closed, his excellent USCG training saw to that.

But I have found operators at WPA - Port Arthur - Skip (also known as "Fly Boy") who is a member of this group could copy 65 wpm easily - he would ask for "confirmation" but not a repeat of critical number-letter groups in parts lists for parts requisitions from the Chief Engineer.  He got them 100% correct all the time.


I could list many of the list members who were outstanding technicians and speedy Morse operators who could send and receive flawlessly above 50 wpm.

I would say that most of them had also worked at coast stations and I would consider them the best of the ship operators.

Ship operators only had to be able to copy 20 wpm and except for the White Fleet of United Brands / United Fruit, few companies asked for more.  White Fleet asked for 35 wpm for their R/O's - which was an achievable speed for most R/Os with a bit of experience if they were allowed a semi-automatic key to send with.


Few R/O's kept the ability to send 25 wpm on a straight key through out their lives, but some have, but very few.

73
DR


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Larry Bennett

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Nov 7, 2015, 3:34:12 PM11/7/15
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When I got my MRGC in 1979 the cw speed was 20 wpm - and when I joined GKA in 1980 there was a compulsory send/receive test at 27 wpm (on a hand key) which had to be passed within 1 year of joining. Normal working was of course decided by conditions and the speed of the R/O being worked. Could be anything between 12 wpm (some distinctly dodgy R/Os on Flag of Convenience ships) and 30 wpm+ (some top class R/Os out there!). Remember taking nearly 1000 words off an Esso vessel whose RTT gear wasn't working and it was the perfect QSO, breaking every 100 words. There was also the battle of speeds between an American R/O and myself, eventually reaching around 35 wpm before we called a truce! But of course speed wasn't everything, it was the quality of the cw that really mattered. Happy days at GKA, now a distant memory. Larry/G4HLN

Peter VK4QC

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Nov 7, 2015, 4:29:27 PM11/7/15
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Any ex passenger ship op's would remember having to copy the PRESS from WCC, GBR etc? It was sent pretty fast around 25-30wpm and breaks for SP.

I was a junior R/O on Empress of Canada/GHLA and the 3rd R/O would take the WCC press on an old Olivetti typewriter. His pages with carbon paper between them all stacked up ready to go. Headphones dangling around his neck and the gain turned up so the cans literally vibrated. He would underline each heading in red and catch up talking to me all the time. "What about another cuppa tea?" Even getting up, having a stretch, lighting another fag and then carrying on.

I had the job of taking the baseball results! Had an old reel-to-reel taperecorder just in case! A few names that would be tricky until you got used to them: Mississippi, Minneapolis etc..!! 

Then I remember Diane Hick, ex RAN communicator at HMAS Coonawarra could receive anything at any speed and answer at 20wpm on an old Junker.

73, Peter

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Mike Zbrozek

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Nov 7, 2015, 10:50:18 PM11/7/15
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R/O David Ring - N1EA

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Nov 8, 2015, 12:19:35 AM11/8/15
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Larry,

There is still a REWARD for a recording of anyone doing above 25 WPM on a hand key.  I know it can be done as I have heard it, but I do not have a recording of anyone doing it.

I am a 23 wpm "top speed" on a hand key man.  Thankfully FCC / USA allowed us to use any mechanical key for our 25 WPM code test.  I could do the 20 GPM cipher groups as the random letters had less "DITTY" characters which made the 25 WPM test challenging to me - sending fastest dots was the limiting skill at that speed.

73
DR

Ken McCormack

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Nov 8, 2015, 12:22:01 AM11/8/15
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In 1953 I was 4th R/O on RMS "Rangitiki" on the UK-NZ run and well remember copying "London Agency Copyright Press" during the evening 8-12 watch.  It didn't seem all that fast, sent in condensed format - about three foolscap pages.
The 3rd R/O has tasked with expanding it to 10 pages, cutting Gestetner stencils on a dedicated cork-roller typewriter during the 12-4 night watch for the Printer - 1st Class passengers had their newspaper delivered to their cabins - Tourist Class had to read it on bulletin boards.
The important news was stock market reports for the 1st Class passengers and UK football scores for the 280 crew.

We had four R/Os but the Chief didn't take a watch other than Sunday evenings while I was showing the crew movies.

Xmas Eve 1953 we had left Auckland bound Cristobal when the Tangiwai disaster occurred (bridge collapsed, dumping a passenger train into the river).   The recently crowned Queen Elizabeth was arriving on the "Gothic" at the time, so the British news was all over the events in New Zealand.
It seemed that almost all of the 450 passengers thought they had relatives on the train so the Purser's office was deluged with 100s of telegrams.    The 3rd R/O was our best operator (ex NZ Post Office) and sent excellent code at 25wpm on the crummy Marconi key, so the other three of us.became the "support team".

First problem started in the Purser's office seven decks below when the pneumatic "Lamson Tube" to the Radio Room became blocked because of too many cartridges being loaded too quickly - all four electricians were required to clear the blockage.
(who remembers the "Lamson Tube"?)

Even though our 3/RO was fast, working ZLD Auckland to another excellent op, there was no way he could keep up with the mounting stack of QTCs.   The ZLD ops acknowledged receipt every 5 QTCs.
I was emptying the cartridges, adding preamble, word-count etc., but it soon became obvious that we needed simultaneous operation on MF and HF, for which the Marconi installation had not been designed..   As the only tech, I set up another operating position so that we could use both the "Worldspan/Electra" combination with the emergency transmitter and "Mercury" receiver - worked fine, two operators.

While the 2/RO and 3/RO handled the traffic, I copied press on a Marconi CR-300 morning and evening, cut up their meals into "bite-size'" pieces and sat in for their brief "pee-breaks".   The Chief stayed in the Purser's office doing the word-count and ensuring that there were no more blockages.

After about 36 hours, the "sent" QTCs diminished but there were still many replies coming via MF and HF.

Our Company had a Marconi RAMAC (rental and maintenance contract) - we were Company employees but still bound by "No alteration to the equipment" rules.   We never told MIMCO.

It was a very busy 48 hours during that Xmas period.. 

Not wanting to offend the moderator, I gained my ham licence when 16 years old, my 1st Class RTO at 17.
I worked at a radio repair shop after school from age 13 so had the advantage of being an experienced "solder slinger"/repairman before I went to sea at 17 - retired 1987, cargo, passenger, cruise ships and an oil rig.   These days at age 80, I enjoy ham radio CW contests and can handle 40wpm with ease.

73,
Ken ZL1AIH
.


On Sun, Nov 8, 2015 at 10:29 AM, Peter VK4QC <vk...@wia.org.au> wrote:


Mike Zbrozek

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Nov 8, 2015, 12:41:02 AM11/8/15
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Harry Wilson

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Nov 8, 2015, 1:12:27 PM11/8/15
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Mike - when did you ship with the Jean Lykes?  A CW-only boat she was. Lousy food, but a queen among tramps.  Harry


From: Mike Zbrozek
Sent: ‎Saturday‎, ‎November‎ ‎7‎, ‎2015 ‎3‎:‎11‎ ‎PM
To: radio-o...@googlegroups.com

 
 
Hello Group -
 
I sailed from 1980-1996 with differant companies and Unions....releaving all sorts of
Radio Officers. I found that most stayed away from CW if possible. Most of these guys
sent their obs and amvers via Inmarsat. Thats what they told me before they left the
Radio Room to me. So all this talk about code copying speed makes me wonder who
out there were such great cw men. I sent obs and amvers via cw as a matter of pride in my profession.
But all company tfc was via tlx/satellite....thats what the companies wanted. It was nice to be on a cw only ship,
that was the Jean Lykes/WLAH. I also was on a sitor only ship once, OMI Missouri/WBKX.
On both ships the tfc was low and less BS from the company. Nice.........
I wonder how much tfc goes to ships now via Internet/Satcomm?
 
 
73
Mike K8XF
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2015 2:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Radio Officers, &c] RO's Code Speed

To be clearer to answer RB's exact question.

I found that most shipboard R/O's could copy 27 wpm and many could copy 33 at least for short periods and for WX reports where the words weren't unknown to them in advance.  How many variations of WINDS FROM THE SOUTH are there to stump an R/O, anyway (not a question for further discussion, please.)


I found that if you started sending 40 wpm or faster under good to ideal conditions to a coast station, the operator would tell you to "WAIT" and they'd put on one of their fastest operators.

They also did this - and so did I - when a particular ship board R/O's style of sending was particularly frustrating to an operator, as poor YL op on Y5CC was to me.  She elongated the second (and only the second) dot but only when it was the last dot sent.  So for R I was copying W and so on.  The other fast speed op, my dear friend, Walter Kane, III could copy her with his eyes closed, his excellent USCG training saw to that.

But I have found operators at WPA - Port Arthur - Skip (also known as "Fly Boy") who is a member of this group could copy 65 wpm easily - he would ask for "confirmation" but not a repeat of critical number-letter groups in parts lists for parts requisitions from the Chief Engineer.  He got them 100% correct all the time.


I could list many of the list members who were outstanding technicians and speedy Morse operators who could send and receive flawlessly above 50 wpm.

I would say that most of them had also worked at coast stations and I would consider them the best of the ship operators.

Ship operators only had to be able to copy 20 wpm and except for the White Fleet of United Brands / United Fruit, few companies asked for more.  White Fleet asked for 35 wpm for their R/O's - which was an achievable speed for most R/Os with a bit of experience if they were allowed a semi-automatic key to send with.


Few R/O's kept the ability to send 25 wpm on a straight key through out their lives, but some have, but very few.

73
DR


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Harry Wilson

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Nov 8, 2015, 1:28:26 PM11/8/15
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All I remember about commercial RT was going SLOW
CAPT REQUIRES 50000 CASH ARRIVAL STOP BOSUN WILL NOT BE RELIEVED NOLA AR
HW



From: Conor Daly
Sent: ‎Saturday‎, ‎November‎ ‎7‎, ‎2015 ‎3‎:‎11‎ ‎PM
To: radio-o...@googlegroups.com

Interestingly, I could eventually after a few years and a lot of
practice receive stuff in a foreign language such as Russian shore to
ship traffic at 40+ wpm but it it was in English above 30 wpm, I'd
eventually trip up on an unusual word as my guessing impulse would
kick in until I learned to control it. I think all operators had these
issues at one time or other.

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Mike Zbrozek

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Nov 8, 2015, 1:37:01 PM11/8/15
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Hello Harry -
 
I sailed on that old ship in 1992 I think. I joined it in New Orleans and she
took a cargo of corn to Mozambique....zillion bags of corn.
The food was lousy like U said....and the company was cheap regarding
supplying good food...the steward dept was all black except for the Ch Stwd.
After Mozambique we went to Madagascar to drop off 4000 bbls of cooking oil.
 
I remember my first salad abd the Jean Lykes....it was a leaf of yellow lettuce
under two green tomato slices...after dinner I asked the OM if this is normal for Lykes
to serve this???...and he said, ""Lykes doesnt have to feed you...only keep U alive""
What a ship...now I see that Lykes is run by Canada Steamship and has only 5 ships?
Foreign flag no doubt. That was first and only ship with Lykes. I sailed for ARA from
1990-1992...then they wanted me to pay 4000 bux to join their Union. I said no and that
was the end of my ARA job.....I knew that the REO job was going qrt....ARA and ROU did very little
to save our jobs.......yet the RO job still exists on ara vessels as a Elect Tek position. No thanks, I
dont want to work in the eng room, etc.......it was a great life for me sailing 1980-1996.
 
 
73
Mike K8XF
 
 
----- Original Message -----

Richard Monjure

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See attachment.



>>> an email to radio-officers+unsub...@googlegroups.com.
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Code Certificate.jpg

D.J.J. Ring, Jr.

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Nov 8, 2015, 4:39:05 PM11/8/15
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RM,

Congrats on your excellent achievement.

I can say first hand you are an awesome WT operator.

By the by, USA Radio Officers somehow confuse RT with WT as they write down RT meaning, Radio Telegraphy, but RT actually means Radio Telephony.  WT the older term, Wireless Telegraphy meant - at first - SPARK transmissions, but was retained after we converted to continuous wave, first with alternators, then with arc transmitters and finally about 1919 or so with vacuum tube oscillators, or transmitters with electronic valves as the Brits and others speaking Great British English.

RM you sent some awesome WT. :-)

73
DR
On Sun, Nov 8, 2015 at 11:31 AM, 'Richard Monjure' via Radio Officers <radio-o...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
See attachment.

Harry Wilson

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Nov 8, 2015, 4:48:42 PM11/8/15
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Mike - yes!!  I remember the yellow lettuce and green tomatoes!  And the passengers raiding the stale bread and PB&J in the officer’s mess, mid-Atlantic. Sailed WLAH in ‘91,  Baltimore-to-Eastern Med.  Alexandria for a month during Ramadan.  I recall a rusty, ugly, loud, fast, and dangerous ship, and a world-class radio job.  Agree--don’t want to work in the engine room. Nope
Harry       


From: Mike Zbrozek
Sent: ‎Sunday‎, ‎November‎ ‎8‎, ‎2015 ‎1‎:‎37‎ ‎PM
To: radio-o...@googlegroups.com

 
Hello Harry -
 
I sailed on that old ship in 1992 I think. I joined it in New Orleans and she
took a cargo of corn to Mozambique....zillion bags of corn.
The food was lousy like U said....and the company was cheap regarding
supplying good food...the steward dept was all black except for the Ch Stwd.
After Mozambique we went to Madagascar to drop off 4000 bbls of cooking oil.
 
I remember my first salad abd the Jean Lykes....it was a leaf of yellow lettuce
under two green tomato slices...after dinner I asked the OM if this is normal for Lykes
to serve this???...and he said, ""Lykes doesnt have to feed you...only keep U alive""
What a ship...now I see that Lykes is run by Canada Steamship and has only 5 ships?
Foreign flag no doubt. That was first and only ship with Lykes. I sailed for ARA from
1990-1992...then they wanted me to pay 4000 bux to join their Union. I said no and that
was the end of my ARA job.....I knew that the REO job was going qrt....ARA and ROU did very little
to save our jobs.......yet the RO job still exists on ara vessels as a Elect Tek position. No thanks, I
dont want to work in the eng room, etc.......it was a great life for me sailing 1980-1996.
 
 
73
Mike K8XF
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2015 1:04 PM
Subject: Re: [Radio Officers, &c] RO's Code Speed

Mike - when did you ship with the Jean Lykes?  A CW-only boat she was. Lousy food, but a queen among tramps.  Harry


From: Mike Zbrozek
Sent: ‎Saturday‎, ‎November‎ ‎7‎, ‎2015 ‎3‎:‎11‎ ‎PM
To: radio-o...@googlegroups.com

 
 
Hello Group -
 
I sailed from 1980-1996 with differant companies and Unions....releaving all sorts of
Radio Officers. I found that most stayed away from CW if possible. Most of these guys
sent their obs and amvers via Inmarsat. Thats what they told me before they left the
Radio Room to me. So all this talk about code copying speed makes me wonder who
out there were such great cw men. I sent obs and amvers via cw as a matter of pride in my profession.
But all company tfc was via tlx/satellite....thats what the companies wanted. It was nice to be on a cw only ship,
that was the Jean Lykes/WLAH. I also was on a sitor only ship once, OMI Missouri/WBKX.
On both ships the tfc was low and less BS from the company. Nice.........
I wonder how much tfc goes to ships now via Internet/Satcomm?
 
 
73
Mike K8XF
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2015 2:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Radio Officers, &c] RO's Code Speed

To be clearer to answer RB's exact question.

I found that most shipboard R/O's could copy 27 wpm and many could copy 33 at least for short periods and for WX reports where the words weren't unknown to them in advance.  How many variations of WINDS FROM THE SOUTH are there to stump an R/O, anyway (not a question for further discussion, please.)

I found that if you started sending 40 wpm or faster under good to ideal conditions to a coast station, the operator would tell you to "WAIT" and they'd put on one of their fastest operators.

They also did this - and so did I - when a particular ship board R/O's style of sending was particularly frustrating to an operator, as poor YL op on Y5CC was to me.  She elongated the second (and only the second) dot but only when it was the last dot sent.  So for R I was copying W and so on.  The other fast speed op, my dear friend, Walter Kane, III could copy her with his eyes closed, his excellent USCG training saw to that.

But I have found operators at WPA - Port Arthur - Skip (also known as "Fly Boy") who is a member of this group could copy 65 wpm easily - he would ask for "confirmation" but not a repeat of critical number-letter groups in parts lists for parts requisitions from the Chief Engineer.  He got them 100% correct all the time.

I could list many of the list members who were outstanding technicians and speedy Morse operators who could send and receive flawlessly above 50 wpm.

I would say that most of them had also worked at coast stations and I would consider them the best of the ship operators.

Ship operators only had to be able to copy 20 wpm and except for the White Fleet of United Brands / United Fruit, few companies asked for more.  White Fleet asked for 35 wpm for their R/O's - which was an achievable speed for most R/Os with a bit of experience if they were allowed a semi-automatic key to send with.

Few R/O's kept the ability to send 25 wpm on a straight key through out their lives, but some have, but very few.

73
DR


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Harry Wilson

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Is that, Rich Monjure, R/O of the oceanographic legend (“no sea too steep, no trough too deep”)  USNS Bartlett ?
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Richard Monjure

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Hi Mike,

I sailed on the Sheldon Lykes/KRJP in 1987.  The ship was poorly maintained and the food was nearly inedible.  We went to Northern Europe in December... it was a nightmare.

We did encounter 50 foot seas and it was frightening. The Captain didn't leave the bridge for days.

I thought to myself... "What do we have a Union for?"  Certainly food is an important issue.

So I decided to NOT join the ARA.  Went with the ROU instead.

73,
RM





D.J.J. Ring, Jr.

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Nov 9, 2015, 12:23:13 AM11/9/15
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Lykes Bros. used to supply their ships with products of their subsidy, Lykes Bros Meat and packing, but a court decision said they could not buy food from their subsidy.

The family has an interesting if unique history:
http://www.floridatrend.com/article/12859/family-feud

Lykes Bros was known for being perhaps the highest paid ships around - all WT no satcom, they always paid the R/O overtime.

Seems you had to be a MREO to work the basic WT ships!  ROU had SeaLand and ARA had Lykes Bros - both worthy of about $12,000/month pay including vacation pay and overtime.  You had to starve, but the pay was excellent.  Base pay was around $3800.00 a month but lots of overtime!

73

DR


Mike Zbrozek

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Nov 9, 2015, 12:55:24 AM11/9/15
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Hello RM-
 
When I see what happened to the El Faro I have memories of all the ships I have been on battling
all these storms in whatever ocean. Its impossible to get sleep when you are rolling and pitching.
And when the seas calm down you are glad to be alive. And when on a Lykes ship you dont have a
decent meal to look forward to. Now thats a crime. I have a feeling that  Maritime Unions never brings up the
issue of food at contract negotiations? How some guys could sail forever is beyond me. I have had a
few jobs before I went to sea and jobs thereafter.....and many great meals on land.....I dont miss shipping.
 
How was ROU?
 
 
73
Mike K8XF
 
 

Mike Zbrozek

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Nov 9, 2015, 1:08:53 AM11/9/15
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Dave -
 
I read that Lykes article u displayed for all those concerned. I dont think any mention of their
rust bucket fleet? I was told that Lykes once had over 35 ships back in the day.
And now nil ..................
 
73
Mike K8XF
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 09, 2015 12:22 AM
Subject: Re: [Radio Officers, &c] RO's Code Speed

Lykes Bros. used to supply their ships with products of their subsidy, Lykes Bros Meat and packing, but a court decision said they could not buy food from their subsidy.

The family has an interesting if unique history:
http://www.floridatrend.com/article/12859/family-feud

Lykes Bros was known for being perhaps the highest paid ships around - all WT no satcom, they always paid the R/O overtime.

Seems you had to be a MREO to work the basic WT ships!  ROU had SeaLand and ARA had Lykes Bros - both worthy of about $12,000/month pay including vacation pay and overtime.  You had to starve, but the pay was excellent.  Base pay was around $3800.00 a month but lots of overtime!

73

DR


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Conor Daly

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Nov 9, 2015, 6:47:22 AM11/9/15
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Wow. In my 6 years as an R/O food was never an issue. The pay was not
all that great (I was working for an agency started on about £1050
pounds a month, finished on maybe 1300). On the Dutch ships there was
an open pantry and you could snack away on anything the cook left in
the crew fridge but on the Italian ships eating was strictly confined
to meal times and the pantry was locked shut and reinforced with a
steel bar and chain/giant padlock lol.....

ML

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Nov 9, 2015, 8:14:43 AM11/9/15
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I find this discussion around code speed extremely interesting. As a side note, the speed qualification for a USCG Radioman was just 18 wpm. I think that - combined with the perfect conditions under which morse code was learned - contributed to the struggles new radiomen had at their first assignment.

But what I find really interesting is the dynamic behind what makes an operator good enough to send and receive code at high speeds (even just 18wpm). It is not a matter of "translating" a signal. To do so, we had to make an automatic ear/hand connection. The mind part (thinking) had to become second nature. For example, in the beginning of learning, I would hear .- then think a then type a. This won't suffice for higher speeds. To succeed, you have to be able to hear .- and know that it is a without thought - just as you would if you heard the spoken letter a.

With that intro in mind, I see that applicability in other areas. For example, I took two years of shorthand prior to learning morse code. To become good at it, the same principle applied - I had to automatically react by writing the appropriate symbol without any conscious thought of it. (In fact, I wonder if the two years of shorthand helped me with learning to send and receive code). 

This discussion has made me wonder how well this 'mind training' can parlay into other areas. Would, for example, former cw operators be especially adept at translating the spoken word into sign language? I think it would and I'm wondering if anyone on this list has gone on to learn sign language and whether they see any parallels. I'm thinking of taking it up just to test the theory (and it would be a useful skill to have anyway).

Can anyone think of other jobs that require an ear/hand automatic reaction?

-- Mary

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Mike Zbrozek

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Nov 9, 2015, 8:19:22 AM11/9/15
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Hello Conor
and the Group -

I started to work in 1980 for my six months sea endorsement with the
US Govt, Military Sealift Command. Its a civilian position on US Govt owned
vessels.
I got my six months on a survey ship that left Port Everglades Fl before
Xmas 1980
and went to Brazil and Argentina for my time aboard.. this ship would stay
out to sea for
23 days during survey underwater stuff for the US Navy. The fellow that I
learned the
trade from was a worn out old man that shud have retired years ago. He was
not a pleasant
fellow, and I can say that for the rest of the crew. Before we departed
Florida the US Govt installed
Marisat in the Radio Room. The Radio Officer didnt like that at all since it
cut his overtime.
On MSC ships the US Govt sent fleet bcst messages in the blind on selected
frequencies
for all or specific msc ships. 8090 was a frq that comes to mind. The other
freqs were bcst simul-
cast from cw stns around the world at specific bcst times...meaning u had to
get up in the early
am to copy long, I mean long winded msgs with a check list of hundreds of
words. Most of the time
it was US Navy/MSC BS, this was OT out to sea or in port. By the way. this
survey ship would stay in port for
5 days after being out to sea for 23 days....that was the only good thing
about this job.

Now getting to the food situation. This was my first ship and the quality of
the food was poor.
In the evening all U had in the mess was a bowl of fruit, and mystery meat
laid out on a tray
in the refridge. Thats all. When I sailed on oil tankers years later the
situation was opposite.
Ice cream, all sorts of fruit, breakfast cereals, etc etc was available in
the mess. What a pleasure
visiting the mess in the evening if you were hungry. Working for MSC was a
great place to get your six months
sea endorsement. I dont understand guys who made a career of sailing with
this lousy outfit.
Before I started with MSC the tour in the 1950-1960's was 9 months on and
one month off.
What kind of fool would work under those conditions? My wife would NEVER
stand
for that. Nowadays I believe MSC has 4 months on and one month paid
vacation.


73
Mike K8XF


----- Original Message -----
From: "Conor Daly" <conifer...@gmail.com>
To: <radio-o...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Monday, November 09, 2015 6:47 AM
Subject: Re: [Radio Officers, &c] RO's Code Speed


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Charlezzzzz

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Nov 9, 2015, 8:34:24 AM11/9/15
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On Nov 9, 2015, at 6:47 AM, Conor Daly <conifer...@gmail.com> wrote:

Wow. In my 6 years as an R/O food was never an issue. The pay was not
all that great (I was working for an agency started on about £1050
pounds a month, finished on maybe 1300). 

The New York Times is today beginning a series of articles on the situation of the unlicensed crew members of ships where the crews are put together by badly-regulated “employment agencies.”

Here’s a look at three paragraphs the first of these articles:

=====

Thousands of maritime employment agencies around the world provide a vital service, supplying crew members for ships, from small trawlers to giant container carriers, and handling everything from paychecks to plane tickets. While many companies operate responsibly, over all the industry, which has drawn little attention, is poorly regulated. The few rules on the books do not even apply to fishing ships, where the worst abuses tend to happen, and enforcement is lax.

Illegal agencies operate with even greater impunity, sending men to ships notorious for poor safety and labor records; instructing them to travel on tourist or transit visas, which exempt them from the protections of many labor and anti-trafficking laws; and disavowing them if they are denied pay, injured, killed, abandoned or arrested at sea.

“It’s lies and cheating on land, then beatings and death at sea, then shame and debt when these men get home,” said Shelley Thio, a board member of Transient Workers Count Too, a migrant workers’ advocacy group in Singapore. “And the manning agencies are what make it all possible.”

======

Interesting. Tragic.

     Charlezzzzz

mike.m...@btinternet.com

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Nov 9, 2015, 9:24:05 AM11/9/15
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“Can anyone think of other jobs that require an ear/hand automatic reaction”
 
Musician, Stenographer
 
From: ML
Sent: Monday, November 9, 2015 1:14 PM
Subject: Re: [Radio Officers, &c] RO's Code Speed
 
I find this discussion around code speed extremely interesting. As a side note, the speed qualification for a USCG Radioman was just 18 wpm. I think that - combined with the perfect conditions under which morse code was learned - contributed to the struggles new radiomen had at their first assignment.
 
But what I find really interesting is the dynamic behind what makes an operator good enough to send and receive code at high speeds (even just 18wpm). It is not a matter of "translating" a signal. To do so, we had to make an automatic ear/hand connection. The mind part (thinking) had to become second nature. For example, in the beginning of learning, I would hear .- then think a then type a. This won't suffice for higher speeds. To succeed, you have to be able to hear .- and know that it is a without thought - just as you would if you heard the spoken letter a.
 
With that intro in mind, I see that applicability in other areas. For example, I took two years of shorthand prior to learning morse code. To become good at it, the same principle applied - I had to automatically react by writing the appropriate symbol without any conscious thought of it. (In fact, I wonder if the two years of shorthand helped me with learning to send and receive code).
 
This discussion has made me wonder how well this 'mind training' can parlay into other areas. Would, for example, former cw operators be especially adept at translating the spoken word into sign language? I think it would and I'm wondering if anyone on this list has gone on to learn sign language and whether they see any parallels. I'm thinking of taking it up just to test the theory (and it would be a useful skill to have anyway).
 
?Can anyone think of other jobs that require an ear/hand automatic reaction
 
-- Mary
 
 

msta...@comcast.net

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Nov 9, 2015, 12:15:02 PM11/9/15
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The New york Times ran a series about lawlessness on the oceans. It make interesting reading:

<http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/07/24/world/the-outlaw-ocean.html>

Mike N2MS
“It’s lies and cheating on land, then beatings and death at sea, then shame and debt when these men get home,” said Shelley Thio, a board member of Transient Workers Count Too <http://twc2.org.sg/>, a migrant workers’ advocacy group in Singapore. “And the manning agencies are what make it all possible.”

======

Richard Monjure

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Nov 9, 2015, 9:42:57 PM11/9/15
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Mike,

I remember those broadcasts... the frequency you mention is correct, but I can't remember the others.  I think 16180 was another.  The 12 mc/s freq might have been 12135.  Navareas and Hydrolants were sent there, possibly other broadcasts.

I used to get the Gulf Stream Bulletin on 5080 out of Key West.  I also used to copy the International Ice Patrol bulletin out of Boston (NIK) but I forget the frequency now.

I remember the day the U.S.C.G. stopped the Gulf Stream Broadcast on 5080.  I copied the last broadcast.

73,
Rich



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Richard Monjure

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Nov 9, 2015, 9:43:29 PM11/9/15
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Hello Mary,

I know a former R/O who became a stenographer.  That is also called a "Court Reporter."

Last I head he was making $75,000.00 per year doing that a few years ago.  The stenographer's job is now being automated.

Soon there will be absolutely NOTHING left for a human to do!

73,
Rich Monjure



Mike Zbrozek

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Nov 9, 2015, 10:16:45 PM11/9/15
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Hi RM -
 
Rich I just sent you a msg and then 7 came in after I sent the msg....HI.....
Those MSC bcsts covered the world with stns in EU, Atlantic, Pac, and the far east.
I am glad that I never had to copy them. When I started working for MSC the US Govt
installed the big blue box on my first ship. I was on the USNS Hayes/NRLW for my 6
months sea svc endorsement. And all the other MSC ships had Marisat as well.
Thats fine with me. I didnt like the idea of waking up at 0300 local time and copying
a 600-1000 word message regarding unsafe cans of mushrooms. I was shocked to see
the junk the US Govt sent to their MSC fleet.
 
U are correct 12.135, 16180, and 5080 were freqs that MSC used over here as well as EU and Africa.
MSC had a few other freqs for Asia, etc...
 
I still have a loose binder with all the relevant RO info from my career that spanned 1980-1996.
Those were the days....I loved hamming it up from the high seas.....I usually took along my ham rig.
 
 
73
Mike K8XF
 
 
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Harry Wilson

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Nov 9, 2015, 10:52:14 PM11/9/15
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Mary -- air traffic controllers I would think must also have strong ear/hand coordination skills, like short-hand writers and stenographers. You must be right; if one has aptitude for sending-receiving CW, then likely easily developed skills in other areas. 

CW teaches one skill I’ve been told many people are hopeless at---listening

- Harry

     

From: mike.m...@btinternet.com
Sent: ‎Monday‎, ‎November‎ ‎9‎, ‎2015 ‎9‎:‎24‎ ‎AM
To: radio-o...@googlegroups.com

“Can anyone think of other jobs that require an ear/hand automatic reaction”
 
Musician, Stenographer
From: ML
Sent: Monday, November 9, 2015 1:14 PM
Subject: Re: [Radio Officers, &c] RO's Code Speed
I find this discussion around code speed extremely interesting. As a side note, the speed qualification for a USCG Radioman was just 18 wpm. I think that - combined with the perfect conditions under which morse code was learned - contributed to the struggles new radiomen had at their first assignment.
 
But what I find really interesting is the dynamic behind what makes an operator good enough to send and receive code at high speeds (even just 18wpm). It is not a matter of "translating" a signal. To do so, we had to make an automatic ear/hand connection. The mind part (thinking) had to become second nature. For example, in the beginning of learning, I would hear .- then think a then type a. This won't suffice for higher speeds. To succeed, you have to be able to hear .- and know that it is a without thought - just as you would if you heard the spoken letter a.
 
With that intro in mind, I see that applicability in other areas. For example, I took two years of shorthand prior to learning morse code. To become good at it, the same principle applied - I had to automatically react by writing the appropriate symbol without any conscious thought of it. (In fact, I wonder if the two years of shorthand helped me with learning to send and receive code).
 
This discussion has made me wonder how well this 'mind training' can parlay into other areas. Would, for example, former cw operators be especially adept at translating the spoken word into sign language? I think it would and I'm wondering if anyone on this list has gone on to learn sign language and whether they see any parallels. I'm thinking of taking it up just to test the theory (and it would be a useful skill to have anyway).
 
?Can anyone think of other jobs that require an ear/hand automatic reaction
 
-- Mary
 
 

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D.J.J. Ring, Jr.

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Nov 9, 2015, 10:59:26 PM11/9/15
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The ability of R/O's to copy stations under three, four or five other stations on 500 kHz just amazes me - or the ability to hear what should not be there - like a ship sending something that isn't a call sign on 500 kHz - and it is most likely a TTT or XXX or SOS as the only thing you heard on 5 ton was call signs, but when we heard certain words, our hearing perked up.

Yes, we were good listeners and watchkeepers.

73

DR

Harry Wilson

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Nov 9, 2015, 11:22:19 PM11/9/15
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DR

Thanks for the post on the Lykes family.  You’re right, Lykes Brothers did pay well.  Alas, a company whose fortune crested and fell like the golden age of radio.  Best part of their fleet fleet when I was shipping were the stick-ships, totally independent tramp freighters, an inspiration I think each one for a story like Steaming to Bamboola

HW

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Lykes Bros. used to supply their ships with products of their subsidy, Lykes Bros Meat and packing, but a court decision said they could not buy food from their subsidy.

The family has an interesting if unique history:
http://www.floridatrend.com/article/12859/family-feud

Lykes Bros was known for being perhaps the highest paid ships around - all WT no satcom, they always paid the R/O overtime.

Seems you had to be a MREO to work the basic WT ships!  ROU had SeaLand and ARA had Lykes Bros - both worthy of about $12,000/month pay including vacation pay and overtime.  You had to starve, but the pay was excellent.  Base pay was around $3800.00 a month but lots of overtime!

73

DR


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Richard Freedland

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Nov 9, 2015, 11:32:45 PM11/9/15
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A few years ago, I shared the link below with another online group, but it seems appropriate to mention it here as well.   It's a recording of Jean Shepherd, who, in addition to being an acclaimed author and social commentator, had a very popular nightly radio program on WOR (New York) in the 60s and 70s.  He was also a ham (K2ORS).  If you don't care to listen to the entire tribute program, you can fast-forward to about the 34:15 mark.  That's where he begins his story about attending Morse code school in the Army. 

Enjoy.


73,

Richard Freedland
Miami

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D.J.J. Ring, Jr.

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Nov 10, 2015, 12:07:23 AM11/10/15
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John McPhee was going down the gangway when I joined Stella Lykes around 1988, then I saw he published Looking for a Ship in 1990 and he had excerpts ,from the Radio Log Stella Lykes in his book.  John is an excellent writer and the only writer who's prose I can identify just by reading it without even knowing who wrote the page I was reading - I've done it twice picking up a book and reading a page and saying "It reads like John McPhee.

Obviously I enjoy his writing.

The author of Steaming to Bamboola, Christopher Buckley (son of William F. Buckley) worked on a Norwegian freighter in his late teens and early twenties.

He also is a great writer - he writes about the merchant marine like some of the members here do!

73

DR
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