ACES color management support

[shaa...@gmail.com]

Hello!

Because PTGui already many years using not only as a best panorama stitching software, but also for creation of spherical HDRI pano. That used for IBL (Image based lighting)in 3DCG and VFX industries such users in bad situation from two camps. Camera or sensor manufacturers and giants like Adobe or Sony and ACES group that is VFX camp.

And as result almost all images from cams are only support ICC color profiles and mostly only sRGB and AdobeRGB. Best Raw processing software add support for ProPhoto color space. But again lack of ACES support. In same time VFX and especially 3DCG apps do not understand well other than sRGB color spaces and gamut they have.

May be PTGui can be a bridge that will join two camps and make HDRI capturers work easier?

May be possible add support for color management via OpenImageIO and/or ACES libraries and allow map gammut for HDRIs inside PTGui in processing time?

Like import AdobeRGB tagged images or even ProPhoto images, and on export time chose gamut mapping to sRGB, AdobeRGB, Prophoto or any of ACES profiles like ACESsg or other ...

This can be huge advantage for whole industry and again just proof that PTGui was, and will be a best tool for this work! :)

Best regards

Vlad.

[PTGui Support]

Hi Vlad,

I think PTGui Pro 12 can do what you need:
https://www.ptgui.com/beta.html

It understands the color space in source images and can convert to any
desired output color space.

Kind regards,

Joost Nieuwenhuijse
www.ptgui.com

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[shaa...@gmail.com]

Hi Joost.

Problem that ACES is not ICC.

Between ICC profiles all easy in 2D Photo camp. As soon as this is mature technology.

But ACES and VFX is a different thing and they are not compatible so easy yet :(

ACES have some support for color spaces common for Photo editing, but ICC do not have support for color spaces from ACES.

Best regards

Vlad

[PTGui Support]

There exist ICC profiles both for ACEScc and ACEScg. I think it's
nothing special, just a linear color space with particular primaries.

See:
https://github.com/ellelstone/elles_icc_profiles/tree/master/profiles

Use the 'g10' profiles for linear gamma.

If you have such an .icc profile file, you can select it in PTGui for
the output:

Create Panorama - Output color space - Other

PTGui will then convert to ACES and embed the ICC profile.

But perhaps I'm missing something here, please let me know about your
particular workflow.

Kind regards,

Joost Nieuwenhuijse
www.ptgui.com

[shaa...@gmail.com]

Hi Joost.

Main problem that ICC designed for 0.0-1.0 domains. While HDRIs have 0.0-infinity. :(

And using ICC ACES profile is more like simulation of ACES and it's workflow designed for high dynamic images images used in 3DCG/VFX industries from early days (not only for IBL but for composing and other.)

In same moment ACES color management have some usable support for most modern color spaces like sRGB, AdobeRGB, ProPhoto etc. And can allow more or less correctly deal with HDR gamma/tonemapping.

Best regards

Vlad

[PTGui Support]

Hi Vlad,

PTGui should have no problem outputting over > 1.0 if you use one of
those ICC profiles from github from my previous post.

Give it a try; if you run into any issues please let me know how to
reproduce.

Kind regards,

Joost Nieuwenhuijse
www.ptgui.com

On 18/03/2021 05:46, shaa...@gmail.com wrote:
> Hi Joost.
>
> Main problem that ICC designed for 0.0-1.0 domains. While HDRIs have
> 0.0-infinity. :(
> And using ICC ACES profile is more like simulation of ACES and it's
> workflow designed for high dynamic images images used in 3DCG/VFX
> industries from early days (not only for IBL but for composing and other.)
> In same moment ACES color management have some usable support for most
> modern color spaces like sRGB, AdobeRGB, ProPhoto etc. And can allow
> more or less correctly deal with HDR gamma/tonemapping.
>
> Best regards
> Vlad

> image0.pngimage0 (1).png

> On Saturday, March 6, 2021 at 1:06:09 AM UTC+9 PTGui Support wrote:
>
> There exist ICC profiles both for ACEScc and ACEScg. I think it's
> nothing special, just a linear color space with particular primaries.
>
> See:

> https://github.com/ellelstone/elles_icc_profiles/tree/master/profiles <https://github.com/ellelstone/elles_icc_profiles/tree/master/profiles>

>
>
> Use the 'g10' profiles for linear gamma.
>
> If you have such an .icc profile file, you can select it in PTGui for
> the output:
>
> Create Panorama - Output color space - Other
>
> PTGui will then convert to ACES and embed the ICC profile.
>
> But perhaps I'm missing something here, please let me know about your
> particular workflow.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Joost Nieuwenhuijse

> www.ptgui.com <http://www.ptgui.com>

>
> On 05/03/2021 15:55, shaa...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > But ACES and VFX is a different thing and they are not compatible so
> > easy yet :(
> > ACES have some support for color spaces common for Photo editing,
> but
> > ICC do not have support for color spaces from ACES.
> >
> > Best regards
>

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[Berj Bannayan]

I'm curious how we can tell PTGui the color space of the input images.  For example.. we have some images that are EXR ACES 2065-1 primaries and others that are EXR ACEScg primaries both with linear gamma.  In other cases we may have 16 bit tiff with sRGB primaries and sRGB gamma.  Does the input color space affect the exposure fusion?

Thanks!

Berj

[PTGui Support]

Hi Berj,

The .exr format supports a 'chromaticities' metadata tag and PTGui
understands this. So if your images are properly tagged PTGui will use
the proper color space. Which application are you saving the .exr files in?

For TIFF PTGui understands the ICC profile. If a file is untagged, PTGui
assumes sRGB (or linear sRGB in case of floating point data).

Kind regards,

Joost Nieuwenhuijse
www.ptgui.com

On 29/06/2021 03:23, Berj Bannayan wrote:
> I'm curious how we can tell PTGui the color space of the input images.
>  For example.. we have some images that are EXR ACES 2065-1 primaries
> and others that are EXR ACEScg primaries both with linear gamma.  In
> other cases we may have 16 bit tiff with sRGB primaries and sRGB gamma.
>  Does the input color space affect the exposure fusion?
>
> Thanks!
> Berj
> On Thursday, March 18, 2021 at 4:04:03 AM UTC-4 PTGui Support wrote:
>
> Hi Vlad,
>
> PTGui should have no problem outputting over > 1.0 if you use one of
> those ICC profiles from github from my previous post.
>
> Give it a try; if you run into any issues please let me know how to
> reproduce.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Joost Nieuwenhuijse

> www.ptgui.com <http://www.ptgui.com>

> > www.ptgui.com <http://www.ptgui.com> <http://www.ptgui.com

> <http://www.ptgui.com>>
> >
> > On 05/03/2021 15:55, shaa...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >
> > > But ACES and VFX is a different thing and they are not
> compatible so
> > > easy yet :(
> > > ACES have some support for color spaces common for Photo editing,
> > but
> > > ICC do not have support for color spaces from ACES.
> > >
> > > Best regards
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > Groups "PTGui Support" group.
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
> send
> > an email to ptgui+un...@googlegroups.com
> > <mailto:ptgui+un...@googlegroups.com>.
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> >
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ptgui/de5a9da8-d6e1-428b-90ca-1deef843512bn%40googlegroups.com
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ptgui/de5a9da8-d6e1-428b-90ca-1deef843512bn%40googlegroups.com>
>
> >

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>
>
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[Berj Bannayan]

Hi Joost,

Thanks for that info. I think that will be helpful.  We've using both affinity pro and nuke only puts chromaticities in the exr under certain circumstances and assumes they're AP0 even if they aren't (usually we are AP1).  Affinity doesn't put them in at all.  I should be able to put them into the exrs manually, though.

For the future I think it would be very handy to be able to explicitly specify the colorspace of exrs directly in the list of images (even just a pull down menu of choices like: ACES2065-1, ACEScg, sRGB, etc which would either override the chromaticities specified in the exr or if they're just not there.

On the subject of tiffs.. you mention it assumes sRGB primaries for 16-bit images.  What does it assume about the gamma? sRGB as well?

Thanks!

Berj

[PTGui Support]

Hi Berj,

I've added that to the wish list.

Yes, for 8/16 bit untagged images, PTGui assumes sRGB with sRGB gamma.
For floating point tiffs/exr/.hdr PTGui assumes linear sRGB if no color
profile is present.

Kind regards,

Joost Nieuwenhuijse
www.ptgui.com