No stitching points between overlapping pictures and a further principal questions

[CW E]

Hi all!

I would have a first principal question: 

Why are there very often no stitching points generated between overlapping, sometimes directly adjacent pictures (found)?

Independent whether the option  to remove points from not directly adjacent pictures is activated or not. 

Those pictures are often well structured and finding corresponding points would be no problem. This behavior leads sometimes  to stitching problem. Adding points per hand removes those problems. But this makes the process more time consuming as it should be the case. 

Another question: 

Would it be a good idea to activate the first stitching process a second time? How do You handle it?

I sometimes have stitching errors. Of course - nothing is perfect. When I activate the whole stitching process (not the optimization) a second or third time, sometimes those errors are ironed out. 

So - would it not a good idea to trigger the stitching process every time? Could this for example not be integrated into the software (option: stitching in 1, 2, 3, ... steps)?

Greetings 

CE

[PTGui Support]

On 27-05-2024 16:43, CW E wrote:
> /Why are there very often no stitching points generated between
> overlapping, sometimes directly adjacent pictures (found)?/

I would need to investigate, could you post the images?

> /Would it be a good idea to activate the first stitching process a
> second time? How do You handle it?/

I think that's a misconception; if you stitch the same project twice,
without realigning, the result will be identical.

Kind regards,

Joost Nieuwenhuijse
www.ptgui.com

[CW E]

1)

I presume the original ones? One panorama consists of approx. 2 GB of RAW-data. Try to find a good example.

A bad one I have on hand (this behaviour I observe very often) - first panorama --> found. 'Bad', because the overlapping area is relatively dark.

2)

think that's a misconception; if you stitch the same project twice,
without realigning, the result will be identical.

Interestingly this is not my own observation somehow (I think...). I will try to make screenshots next time I observe this behaviour after the first an the second stitching. Maybe (as often the case) I am wrong in interpreting something. But will have an eye on this behaviour.

But 'realigning':

There is an option I have always on: 'straighten panorama'. Could this be a form of realignement?

[PTGui Support]

On 27-05-2024 21:01, CW E wrote:
> 1)
> I presume the original ones? One panorama consists of approx. 2 GB of
> RAW-data. Try to find a good example.
> A bad one I have on hand (this behaviour I observe very often) - first
> panorama --> found. 'Bad', because the overlapping area is relatively dark.
>

> 2.png

I see what you mean. I'll be the first to say that the control point
generator is not perfect, so there will always such cases.

It would be helpful if you could send me the two images shown in the
screenshot.

> 2)
> /think that's a misconception; if you stitch the same project twice,
> without realigning, the result will be identical. /

>
> Interestingly this is not my own observation somehow (I think...). I
> will try to make screenshots next time I observe this behaviour after
> the first an the second stitching. Maybe (as often the case) I am wrong
> in interpreting something. But will have an eye on this behaviour.
> But 'realigning':
> There is an option I have always on: 'straighten panorama'. Could this
> be a form of realignement?

> 3.png

No that option only applies during the Align Images stage.

Create Panorama will always generate exactly the same panorama if you
don't change the project. If not, this would be a bug.

[CW E]

I will a good example of a pair of pictures or will send the two ones. Have to find a way to upload large files :-)

Concerning a second stitching process:

No that option only applies during the Align Images stage.

Create Panorama will always generate exactly the same panorama if you
don't change the project. If not, this would be a bug.

I have had an eye on it and this is the result:

Yes, when activating the stiching process a second time (right after finishing the first one without changing anything else) - results differ. One example:

A) Just brought pictures into the software. No stitching, just put in pictures:

 

My default project-settings (sorry- forgot to change GUI into english):

B, C) Then stichting a first and a second time, without changing anything else, just two times activation the button 'Bilder ausrichten' (Align Images):

Have a closer look and you will find differences. In this case not very much. But in some cases the differences are huge: first time: a tree is split in two, second time the same tree is more or less ok. 

In the controll point table you also see the difference. Did it a 3rd time with this panorama:

And a 4th time (now with english UI :-):

As you can see in the secreenshot - I use the most latest PTGUI Pro. Attachments (without pictures):

1.pts --> after the first align-process

2.pts --> after the second align-process. No closing project inbetween.

Greetings

CWE

[CW E]

D) The the ultimative test: started the whole project once again:

Closing PTGUI, starting new panorama with same project-settings (my default ones), same pictures - klick on 'Align Images' --> different result:

 And the second stitching-process:

As You can see - 6 times different results without changing anything else but activating the button 'align images'.

[CW E]

Did even a third new project with the same pictures again - new values again:

[CW E]

Maybe, just maybe there is a misunderstanding in two vacabularies on mny side (I use the german UI):

1) Stitching

2) Aligning

If so -. when I use 'stitching', I mean the button 'Bilder ausrichten' (align images). If 'stitching' is meant as the last step in the process (producing the result-image), then I have to formulate my question in the first post:

'Would it be a good idea, to 'align images' more than one time until you have the best results? What's Your opinion and Your way of processing panoramas?'

[PTGui Support]

Yes that was the misunderstanding. Bilder Ausrichten / Align Images will
analyze the images and generate control points. Because there is some
randomness in this process, the set of control points will be different
each time.

Generally it's not recommended to run Align Images more than once. It
will reset some of your changes to the default settings.

What you can do though, is run Control Points - Generate Control Points
(in the menu bar). Perhaps this will find a few extra control points.
Then you can run the optimizer.

But there seems to be a big problem in your setup. In your screenshots I
see control point errors of 100 or more. This should be less than 5 in
general. Usually this is caused by parallax. Are you using a panoramic
tripod head? And is it correctly calibrated for your lens?

If you are not familiar with parallax, please do watch the first video
tutorial:
https://www.ptgui.com/videotutorials.html

Kind regards,

Joost Nieuwenhuijse
www.ptgui.com

On 02-06-2024 22:48, CW E wrote:
> Maybe, just maybe there is a misunderstanding in two vacabularies on mny
> side (I use the german UI):

> /1) Stitching/
> /2) Aligning/

>
> If so -. when I use 'stitching', I mean the button 'Bilder ausrichten'
> (align images). If 'stitching' is meant as the last step in the process
> (producing the result-image), then I have to formulate my question in
> the first post:
>

> *'Would it be a good idea, to 'align images' more than one time until

> you have the best results? What's Your opinion and Your way of

> processing panoramas?'*

>
>
>
> CW E schrieb am Sonntag, 2. Juni 2024 um 22:29:53 UTC+2:
>
>

> *Did even a third new project with the same pictures again - new
> values again: *
> 9.png
>
>
>
>
>
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[CW E]

What you can do though, is run Control Points - Generate Control Points
(in the menu bar). Perhaps this will find a few extra control points.
Then you can run the optimizer.

Thank you - this information is most welcome. I searched exactly for this behavior --> will try it as soon as possible. 

Ad 'big problem' with huge control point errors: 

I am aware of this. And this 'problem' is one of the main reasons using PTGUI and not another software. PTGUI is in my case the best one which can handle my pictures well :-)

Reason: each and every panorama I make with the DJI Mini 3 Pro in RAW-mode. Parallax errors are very common, especially when windy like the situation in my panorama above. But - PTGUI is really a great software so far. 

Greetings

[Nick Ross]

Thanks for your reply. I did figure out what I was doing wrong. I renamed the pic so that it didn't say "bottom" as the last word so it didn't overwrite the unmodified pic. Once I named it with bottom at the end it worked fine.

Yahoo Mail: Search, Organize, Conquer

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[John Houghton]

On Monday, June 3, 2024 at 3:07:05 PM UTC+1 Nick Ross wrote:

Thanks for your reply. I did figure out what I was doing wrong. I renamed the pic so that it didn't say "bottom" as the last word so it didn't overwrite the unmodified pic. Once I named it with bottom at the end it worked fine.

Nick, I think your response was entered into the wrong thread, but I'm glad to hear that you were able to assemble your cube faces ok.

John