Proposals: "migrate mailing list to self hosted"

[Daniel Trüssel]

Hey

Google is one of the most evil corporation (Surveillance capitalism,
Censorship, military projects, sprawling capitalism ...). I am forced to
use Google Groups as a Prom user.

I recommend migrate to GNU Mailman or other self hosted list manager.

Thank you for your choice in terms of moral and ethical values to get
rid of Google.

kind regards

Daniel

[Werner Keil]

Prometheus is written in Go, which was also created by Google. Without Google there would be no Prometheus either O;-)

Some projects I'm involved in use Groups.io. Not sure, if there is a possible migration path to preserve the history of a rather long list like that or it even is considered. Either way, if you use Prometheus you'll also use Google via Go. So you might have to use a different monitoring tool if you wanted to really get rid of Google.

Regards,

Werner

[Daniel Trüssel]

On 05.10.19 00:21, Werner Keil wrote:
> Prometheus is written in Go, which was also created by Google. Without
> Google there would be no Prometheus either O;-)
>
> Some projects I'm involved in use Groups.io. Not sure, if there is a
> possible migration path to preserve the history of a rather long list
> like that or it even is considered. Either way, if you use Prometheus
> you'll also use Google via Go. So you might have to use a different
> monitoring tool if you wanted to really get rid of Google.
>
> Regards,
> Werner

No other answers?

I think everybody should do a small step for a better world

[Christian Hoffmann]

Hi,

On 10/5/19 12:21 AM, Werner Keil wrote:
> Prometheus is written in Go, which was also created by Google. Without
> Google there would be no Prometheus either O;-)
>
> Some projects I'm involved in use Groups.io. Not sure, if there is a
> possible migration path to preserve the history of a rather long list
> like that or it even is considered. Either way, if you use Prometheus
> you'll also use Google via Go. So you might have to use a different
> monitoring tool if you wanted to really get rid of Google.

It depends on what you mean by "using Google". For me, "using Google
services" is certainly something different than "using Google software
products such as Go or Google-contributed code". I try to avoid the
first (nothing against Google specifically -- it's the same for
Microsoft, Apple, AWS, ...). I'm mostly OK with the latter.

Of course, I will still have to trust Google -- but so do I have to
trust all other contributors of code to any projects which Prometheus
imports. The fact that I could at least validate it theoretically (if I
had enough motivation, time and understanding) makes it more acceptable
for me. Also, I believe in some kind of web of trust in this case: I
trust the Prometheus team to limit their use of external code to
projects which they trust themselves.

Regarding usage of Google Groups, I understand what Daniel says. I do
not like Google Groups either. It was hard to find a way to sign up as a
non-Google account e-mail-only user. Plus, it's an externally hosted
service.

Using Google Groups is somewhat OK for me, because we are only dealing
with public information anyway. I am posting here. This will be public
for the whole Internet. Everybody can see it, analyze it, store it.
Google will do that as well as all other search engines, regardless of
the forums/mailing list platform.

However, there is another concern for me which I only noticed recently:
The use of Google Groups discriminates against users whose access to
Google domains is blocked. This seems to be the case in China:

https://github.com/prometheus/prometheus/issues/6383#issuecomment-558987854


Kind regards
Christian

[apoorve kalot]

Hey Guys,

Just a thought, as there are two sides to see this,  one - in agreement with Werner and Christian view's, most of the information which you guys deal with, about all things going around, they are discussed here and as they are public, so all the people who are following Prometheus or wanted to start with it in some way, might see to these discussion and then can adapt accordingly, and hence it is win-win situation for everyone.

Secondly if you guys are really interested to put some barrier for controlling information ( like some sort of restriction of information flow, on the basis of hierarchical topology) we can see to the alternatives of google groups, like Slack or something, As in china, i heard most people use VPN services to get around with the access restrictions, and use slack and other services accordingly.

My views : keeping usage of google groups might not be a problem for now, but i think in long run, we can adapt to other options, depending on what majority or the Devs think about it.

[Bjoern Rabenstein]

On 27.11.19 10:11, Christian Hoffmann wrote:
>
> However, there is another concern for me which I only noticed recently:
> The use of Google Groups discriminates against users whose access to
> Google domains is blocked. This seems to be the case in China:
>
> https://github.com/prometheus/prometheus/issues/6383#issuecomment-558987854

Whatever service we pick, there will always be a regime in the world
that censors it.

It's not "the use of Google Groups" that discriminates against users
in China, it's the Chinese regime that discriminates against users in
China.

--
Björn Rabenstein
[PGP-ID] 0x851C3DA17D748D03
[email] bjo...@rabenste.in

[apoorve kalot]

Hey @Bjorn, so for now, what is current plans for this issue, are you thinking to move to another alternative, or any other way to sort out this issue.

[Jiacai Liu]

I'm a Chinese developer, just as apoorve said, most of my colleagues use VPN to bypass restrictions.

[Daniel Trüssel]

On 29.11.19 11:39, Bjoern Rabenstein wrote:
> Whatever service we pick, there will always be a regime in the world
> that censors it.
>
> It's not "the use of Google Groups" that discriminates against users
> in China, it's the Chinese regime that discriminates against users in
> China.

Can you please mirror the mailing list?

https://www.mail-archive.com/faq.html#newlist

It can be done only by Google Groups admin.

thank you

kind regards

Daniel

[Tobias Schmidt]

The mailing list should get archived on the mail-archive.com now. At least I added archi...@mail-archive.com to the list subscribers as described.

We hope that helps.

Best,

Tobi

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[Daniel Trüssel]

On 12.02.20 01:49, Tobias Schmidt wrote:

The mailing list should get archived on the mail-archive.com now. At least I added archi...@mail-archive.com to the list subscribers as described.

We hope that helps.

Best,

Tobi

Hi Tobi

thank you very much.

https://www.mail-archive.com/prometheus...@googlegroups.com/

Please also add the users list. This list even more important.

cheers

Daniel

[Tobias Schmidt]

Sure. Done.

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[Daniel Trüssel]

On 14.02.20 18:06, Tobias Schmidt wrote:
> Sure. Done.

Thank you.

Now only https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/prometheus-announce
missing.

kind regards and nice weekend

Daniel

[Tobias Schmidt]

Heh, I hope we have all now ... Done

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