前近代（1600年以前）

[Michael Pye]

Dear Colleagues,
In a recent funding announcement posted on PMJS reference was
made to "pre-modern" , and the Japanese equivalent was given as
*.......今回、特に前近代（1600年以前）.
Perhaps someone would care to offer a definitive clarification of
pre-modern, early modern, modern.... 近代 itself is an elusively
suggestive term, is it not!
We have the common usage in Japanese to consider, but also the
intellectual difficulty that in any case "periods" are never
hermetically sealed from one another in real history, and indeed are
often blown open the more we look into them.
Any offers?
Michael Pye

.................................................................................................................
Professor of the Study of Religions (em.), University of Marburg, Germany

[Laffin, Christina]

Dear PMJS colleagues,

In response to the query from Michael Pye, I wanted to point out the following bibliography posted on the Japan Past & Present (JPP) website which may be of interest:
https://japanpastandpresent.org/en/teaching-aids/reading-lists/periodization-in-premodern-japan
I recently wrote an overview of different approaches to periodization which is included in the list of sources.

Periodization seems to be a recurring theme on PMJS. Here is a conversation from 2021 focused on the term “medieval”:
https://groups.google.com/u/0/g/pmjs/c/1Ty4b13vXgo/m/Vjjj6WleAAAJ

However we may define “premodern,” PMJS of course remains inclusive of early modern scholarship.

Christina

Christina Laffin クリスティーナ・ラフィン (she, her, hers)
Associate Professor & VPRI SSH Research Advisor
Faculty of Arts | Department of Asian Studies
The University of British Columbia | xʷməθkʷəy̓əm (Musqueam) Traditional, Ancestral, Unceded Territory

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Sent: Tuesday, July 1, 2025 11:37 PM
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Subject: [PMJS] 前近代（1600年以前）

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[Karl Friday]

Aloha, Prof. Pye!

A good place to start on this issue would be the "Sorting the Past," "Defining 'Ancient' and "Classical,'" "Defining Medieval," and "Defining 'Early Modern'" chapters in the Japan Emerging textbook I edited a few years back (if you haven't already seen them). They were intended as jumping off points for class discussions on the questions you raise.

Best,

--Karl

 

 

======================================

カール・フライデー 歴史学博士

Karl Friday, PhD

Professor Emeritus 名誉教授

University of Georgia ・Saitama University

 ==================================

[Michael Pye]

Dear Karl Friday and colleagues,
Good to know people are thinkng about this. To Karl, I hope I
might take up your presentation of it later, and compare your
treatment with my own reflections on periodisation in
"Religionsgeschichte Japans" pp.21-23 (section 6 of introduction)) in
which I caution against uncritical acceptance of the five main
Japanese catefgories.
I must say that I am still completely baffled (NB polite
Englishness for dissatisfaction) by the relation between the three
terms kinsei, kindai and gendai, and how "pre-modern" fits with these.
What indeed is "modern"? Electricity, railways, - the French
revolution? Critical reflection on traditional sources? Hint: I still
regard Tominaga Nakamoto (1724-1756) as an early modern thinker, i.e.
as a modern thinker who was early....
So, PMJS - pre-modern...pre-what exactly? And when does "pre-" modern
come to an end?

best wishes all around in a troubled world,
Michael Pye


Zitat von Karl Friday <kfrida...@gmail.com>:

> Aloha, Prof. Pye!
>
> A good place to start on this issue would be the "Sorting the Past,"
> "Defining 'Ancient' and "Classical,'" "Defining Medieval," and "Defining

> 'Early Modern'" chapters in the *Japan Emerging* textbook I edited a few

> years back (if you haven't already seen them). They were intended as
> jumping off points for class discussions on the questions you raise.
>
> Best,
>
>
> --Karl
>
>
>
>
>
> ======================================
>

> *カール・フライデー* *歴史学博士*
>
> *Karl Friday, PhD*
>
> Professor Emeritus 名誉教授
>
> *University of Georgia ・Saitama University*

> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pmjs/CAPa4A06EOo3LCA_F%3DvMvuJTrCuFPVh32jC9_cw3%3DhdsBTJnmnA%40mail.gmail.com.

[Richard Bowring]

I am puzzled why anyone would bring this very old chestnut up for further discussion. Periodisation is a necessary evil stemming from our fear when faced with the uncontrollable nature of the past. Redrawing imaginary lines in order to make the past manageable is a never-ending game because it depends on what one wishes to achieve and on one’s interests. You inevitably end up with such absurdities as ‘the long x century’ so beloved of European historians. Premodern and modern will, in the end, be constantly redefined because of the nature of time itself.
Richard Bowring

> On 3 Jul 2025, at 19:06, 'Michael Pye' via PMJS: Listserv <pm...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
> Dear Karl Friday and colleagues,

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[William Farris]

Hi folks:

          I agree with Professor Bowring.  Periodization can be sliced and diced many ways, depending upon one's goals and agenda.

Wayne Farris

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>
>
>
> .................................................................................................................
> Professor of the Study of Religions (em.), University of Marburg, Germany
>
> --
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