How to access local file from PDP-10

[Nigel Eke]

Hi All,

I have a file on my local workstation, that I'd like to "copy" to the PDP-10 (simh emulation).

I have the following mypdp10.ini file:

set dz 8b
set tim y2k
set ptr enabled
att ptr mylocalfile.mac
att rp0 dskb.dsk
att rp1 dskc.dsk
att lp20 printer.out
att -am dz 2020
boot rp

But when I run up the TOPS-10 image and run PIP
mycopy.mac=ptr:

I get "?Device PTR does not exist"...

I'm thinking the TOPS-10 image needs configuring for it to recognise the paper-tape reader device. That's a rabbit hole I'd prefer not to dive down - but will if I have to.

Can anyone a) confirm the above suspicion and / or b) provide a different approach to "loading" the local text file?

TIA

Nigel

[Lars Brinkhoff]

The SIMH KS10 emulator does support the paper tape reader, but the manual says this:

"The paper tape reader requires an unsupported driver under TOPS-10 and is not supported under TOPS-20 or ITS."

Reading various LCG catalogs on Bitsavers seems to confirm that a paper tape reader was not an officially supported option.  There's a card reader though...

Other ways to transfer files would be Kermit (if it's installed in your image) or using magnetic tape.

[Nigel Eke]

The card reader approach sounds/sounded promising :)

This ini file:
set tim y2k
set cr enabled
set translation=default
set cr autoeof
set cr reset
attach -a cr mylocalfile.txt
attach rp0 t10.dsk
attach -am dz 2020
set console log=tops10.log
boot rp0

still resulted in "device CR not found" though :(

I'm thinking perhaps that I need to build my own TOPS-10 image for a system that includes a card-reader...  If so, a pointer to the right manual would be useful :)

Thanks

[Clem Cole]

Nigel - the easiest way I have found is using tape files.   I have several tools for the same.   I tended to use PDP-10 backup/PDP-20 dumper format, for which I have a couple of different implementations for UNIX, but there is also a version of the v7 tar for TOPS-10/TOPS-20 in the wild (I think I have it also somewhere), as well as lots of tools to run on Unix that read/write ANSI labeled tapes.

Contact me offline if you have questions, I'll be happy to make what I have available.

One other thought .. (I've never tried this personally), but ... Bob has a tool in the simtools/converter directory called fsio, which can read/write RT11/DOS8 and a few other formats.  TOPS-10 has a tool called RTFLX that reads RT-11 formatted disks.   While the size of an RX01/02 floppy is smaller than Magtape, I believe that the RX20 drive and controller will read 

ToDo - update the OpenSimh tools directory to add some more of the tape tools.

ᐧ

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[John Forecast]

I am the author of "fsio". You should be able to use it to create an RT11 floppy image which can be read with RTFLX on TOPS-10 (ks10 only). However, once again you will need to perform a SYSGEN since the RX20 device driver is not included in the default monitor.

  John.

[Nigel Eke]

Thanks to everyone that helped me out on this problem (especially Clem with his patience re my lack of knowledge of many areas).

In the end I by-passed the magtape route, and simple went for a TTY solution:

From file: <CTRL-A><CTRL-C>

From emulator:
.R PIP
*MYFILE.MAC=TTY:

<CTRL-SHIFT-V>

...

<CTRL-Z>

*

It's a bit time-consuming doing changes that way, but it serves its purpose.  The end results can be seen here: https://github.com/nigeleke/monop

Thanks again,
NIgel

[Tim Radde]

Interesting on this Monopoly game.  I have one written in Basic.  For what system I don't remember. Think an HP 2000 Basic.  I have tried to make it run on many different

Basics with little luck.  Each is a bit different.  It uses a Common directive which many don't support.  It also uses random access files and Chains between multiple Basic files.  It's contained in about 10 or 12 files.  The first sets up the database (not really, but a file containing all the properties to be used later, along with costs, etc).

I might try it on Tops-10 and see if Basic there works.  I had to type it all in from the printout I have of it.  And since it's almost a 50 year old listing it's faded in some

areas.  I am sure there are typos.  I have already fixed many.  I wasn't sure how to load it in and maybe your PIP solution will work.  I am surprised the PTR thing doesn't work as that is how I would have normally done it.   Just trying to paste the file contents into BASIC must overflow a buffer as it loads about 20 lines.

[Tim Radde]

Tried this method with PIP.  Does the same as trying to post directly into Basic.  Loads about 10-12 lines then stops and sits mid-line.

[Steven A. Falco]

I've only run ITS on my PiDP10 (where I've used itstar to move data to/from Linux), but I found a discussion about putting files onto TOPS-10:

https://alt.sys.pdp10.narkive.com/X8g7cWuv/putting-files-on-tops-10-tape-from-linux

The consensus seems to be that kermit is the best tool for the job. No idea if it would work for you but I thought I'd pass the link along in case it helps.

Steve

On 12/13/24 12:04 PM, Tim Radde wrote:
> Tried this method with PIP.  Does the same as trying to post directly into Basic.  Loads about 10-12 lines then stops and sits mid-line.
>
> On Friday, December 13, 2024 at 10:31:51 AM UTC-6 Tim Radde wrote:
>
> Interesting on this Monopoly game.  I have one written in Basic.  For what system I don't remember. Think an HP 2000 Basic.  I have tried to make it run on many different
> Basics with little luck.  Each is a bit different.  It uses a Common directive which many don't support.  It also uses random access files and Chains between multiple Basic files.  It's contained in about 10 or 12 files.  The first sets up the database (not really, but a file containing all the properties to be used later, along with costs, etc).
> I might try it on Tops-10 and see if Basic there works.  I had to type it all in from the printout I have of it.  And since it's almost a 50 year old listing it's faded in some
> areas.  I am sure there are typos.  I have already fixed many.  I wasn't sure how to load it in and maybe your PIP solution will work.  I am surprised the PTR thing doesn't work as that is how I would have normally done it.   Just trying to paste the file contents into BASIC must overflow a buffer as it loads about 20 lines.
>
> On Wednesday, February 14, 2024 at 3:35:04 AM UTC-6 nige...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Thanks to everyone that helped me out on this problem (especially Clem with his patience re my lack of knowledge of many areas).
>
> In the end I by-passed the magtape route, and simple went for a TTY solution:
>
> From file: <CTRL-A><CTRL-C>
>
> From emulator:
> .R PIP
> *MYFILE.MAC=TTY:
> <CTRL-SHIFT-V>
> ...
> <CTRL-Z>
> *
>

> It's a bit time-consuming doing changes that way, but it serves its purpose.  The end results can be seen here: https://github.com/nigeleke/monop <https://github.com/nigeleke/monop>

>
> Thanks again,
> NIgel
>
> On Thursday 1 February 2024 at 03:00:50 UTC+11 John Forecast wrote:
>
> I am the author of "fsio". You should be able to use it to create an RT11 floppy image which can be read with RTFLX on TOPS-10 (ks10 only). However, once again you will need to perform a SYSGEN since the RX20 device driver is not included in the default monitor.
>
>   John.
> On Friday, January 26, 2024 at 10:32:00 AM UTC-5 cl...@ccc.com wrote:
>
> Nigel - the easiest way I have found is using tape files.   I have several tools for the same.   I tended to use PDP-10 backup/PDP-20 dumper format, for which I have a couple of different implementations for UNIX, but there is also a version of the v7 tar for TOPS-10/TOPS-20 in the wild (I think I have it also somewhere), as well as lots of tools to run on Unix that read/write ANSI labeled tapes.
>
> Contact me offline if you have questions, I'll be happy to make what I have available.
>
> One other thought .. (I've never tried this personally), but ... Bob has a tool in the simtools/converter directory called fsio, which can read/write RT11/DOS8 and a few other formats.  TOPS-10 has a tool called RTFLX that reads RT-11 formatted disks.   While the size of an RX01/02 floppy is smaller than Magtape, I believe that the RX20 drive and controller will read
>
> ToDo - update the OpenSimh tools directory to add some more of the tape tools.

> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-10/7bb2d4da-3a7f-4d3e-b1d6-36776eb46c91n%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-10/7bb2d4da-3a7f-4d3e-b1d6-36776eb46c91n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.

>
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[Tim Radde]

Yes, I have considered using Kermit.  Too bad I don't remember how as it's been decades since I last used it.  I know it's available on TOPS-10 as I have run it.

[Steven A. Falco]

Understood. I see that several Kermit books are available from https://www.kermitproject.org/onlinebooks/ if you choose to go down that rabbit hole. :-)

Steve

On 12/13/24 01:21 PM, Tim Radde wrote:
> Yes, I have considered using Kermit.  Too bad I don't remember how as it's been decades since I last used it.  I know it's available on TOPS-10 as I have run it.
>
> On Friday, December 13, 2024 at 11:20:36 AM UTC-6 steve...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> I've only run ITS on my PiDP10 (where I've used itstar to move data to/from Linux), but I found a discussion about putting files onto TOPS-10:
>

> https://alt.sys.pdp10.narkive.com/X8g7cWuv/putting-files-on-tops-10-tape-from-linux <https://alt.sys.pdp10.narkive.com/X8g7cWuv/putting-files-on-tops-10-tape-from-linux>

>
> The consensus seems to be that kermit is the best tool for the job. No idea if it would work for you but I thought I'd pass the link along in case it helps.
>
> Steve
>
> On 12/13/24 12:04 PM, Tim Radde wrote:
> > Tried this method with PIP.  Does the same as trying to post directly into Basic.  Loads about 10-12 lines then stops and sits mid-line.
> >
> > On Friday, December 13, 2024 at 10:31:51 AM UTC-6 Tim Radde wrote:
> >
> > Interesting on this Monopoly game.  I have one written in Basic.  For what system I don't remember. Think an HP 2000 Basic.  I have tried to make it run on many different
> > Basics with little luck.  Each is a bit different.  It uses a Common directive which many don't support.  It also uses random access files and Chains between multiple Basic files.  It's contained in about 10 or 12 files.  The first sets up the database (not really, but a file containing all the properties to be used later, along with costs, etc).
> > I might try it on Tops-10 and see if Basic there works.  I had to type it all in from the printout I have of it.  And since it's almost a 50 year old listing it's faded in some
> > areas.  I am sure there are typos.  I have already fixed many.  I wasn't sure how to load it in and maybe your PIP solution will work.  I am surprised the PTR thing doesn't work as that is how I would have normally done it.   Just trying to paste the file contents into BASIC must overflow a buffer as it loads about 20 lines.
> >
> > On Wednesday, February 14, 2024 at 3:35:04 AM UTC-6 nige...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > Thanks to everyone that helped me out on this problem (especially Clem with his patience re my lack of knowledge of many areas).
> >
> > In the end I by-passed the magtape route, and simple went for a TTY solution:
> >
> > From file: <CTRL-A><CTRL-C>
> >
> > From emulator:
> > .R PIP
> > *MYFILE.MAC=TTY:
> > <CTRL-SHIFT-V>
> > ...
> > <CTRL-Z>
> > *
> >

> > It's a bit time-consuming doing changes that way, but it serves its purpose.  The end results can be seen here: https://github.com/nigeleke/monop <https://github.com/nigeleke/monop> <https://github.com/nigeleke/monop <https://github.com/nigeleke/monop>>

> > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-10/7bb2d4da-3a7f-4d3e-b1d6-36776eb46c91n%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-10/7bb2d4da-3a7f-4d3e-b1d6-36776eb46c91n%40googlegroups.com> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-10/7bb2d4da-3a7f-4d3e-b1d6-36776eb46c91n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-10/7bb2d4da-3a7f-4d3e-b1d6-36776eb46c91n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.

> >
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>
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[Tim Radde]

I also don't think I have a cable that would work for this.  I have lots of old style RS-232 cables.  I don't have a USB serial crossover cable to make the connection.  I have the files on the Rasp Pi5 now.  But that's not very useful either.  I am used to using the PTR on the PiDP-8.  Doesn't work on the 10 as there is a missing driver according to the documents.

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[Flavio Villanustre]

Tim,

Simh provides pseudo-serial connections to the underlying Raspberry Pi. Once you run Kermit on your Raspberry Pi, you can issue the telnet "port" command to connect to that pseudo-serial console. There is a brief discussion of how that works here: https://github.com/simh/simh/issues/177. Once you have this connected, you can move the files from your console (the raspberry Pi) to your simulated TOPS-10 environment.

I hope this helps.

Flavio

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-10/CABTODK9DofyNE4tQsEZS%2BYGhiy5DvdETgTnR%2ByT4Qy1_LgJ6ZQ%40mail.gmail.com.

[Tim Radde]

Just not sure why my Copy (Ctrl-C) and Paste (Ctrl-V) does not complete.  It works and then it just stops.  I would think the system would be able to keep up with that.  I can

do it in chunks but would rather not.

On Fri, Dec 13, 2024 at 12:47 PM Steven A. Falco <steve...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Tim Radde]

Well, I seem to be able to connect via Kermit to the localhost.  But this "discussion" as you pointed to isn't very good in explaining how to move files back and forth.

It's more for how to connect as I see it.  Lots and lots of verbiage.  I'd prefer something with some samples.  Thanks for the pointer though.  Maybe I will get there eventually.

[Flavio Villanustre]

Fair point. Connect to tops-10 using kermit, like you've done now; run kermit on tops-10 and issue the command SERVER to put it in server mode. Now you can use the command SEND to send files (going by memory here).

Flavio

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-10/34ae30d1-19fe-4254-b2f8-db096ec19a69n%40googlegroups.com.

[Steven A. Falco]

Please see chapter 9 of https://www.kermitproject.org/onlinebooks/uck2ep2.pdf

Steve

On 12/13/24 03:27 PM, Tim Radde wrote:
> Well, I seem to be able to connect via Kermit to the localhost.  But this "discussion" as you pointed to isn't very good in explaining how to move files back and forth.
> It's more for how to connect as I see it.  Lots and lots of verbiage.  I'd prefer something with some samples.  Thanks for the pointer though.  Maybe I will get there eventually.
>
> On Friday, December 13, 2024 at 1:41:07 PM UTC-6 fvilla...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Tim,
>

> Simh provides pseudo-serial connections to the underlying Raspberry Pi. Once you run Kermit on your Raspberry Pi, you can issue the telnet "port" command to connect to that pseudo-serial console. There is a brief discussion of how that works here: https://github.com/simh/simh/issues/177 <https://github.com/simh/simh/issues/177>. Once you have this connected, you can move the files from your console (the raspberry Pi) to your simulated TOPS-10 environment.

>
> I hope this helps.
>
> Flavio
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 13, 2024 at 2:05 PM Tim Radde <timr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I also don't think I have a cable that would work for this.  I have lots of old style RS-232 cables.  I don't have a USB serial crossover cable to make the connection.  I have the files on the Rasp Pi5 now.  But that's not very useful either.  I am used to using the PTR on the PiDP-8.  Doesn't work on the 10 as there is a missing driver according to the documents.
>
> On Fri, Dec 13, 2024 at 12:47 PM Steven A. Falco <steve...@gmail.com> wrote:
>

> Understood.  I see that several Kermit books are available from https://www.kermitproject.org/onlinebooks/ <https://www.kermitproject.org/onlinebooks/> if you choose to go down that rabbit hole. :-)

>
>         Steve
>
> On 12/13/24 01:21 PM, Tim Radde wrote:
> > Yes, I have considered using Kermit.  Too bad I don't remember how as it's been decades since I last used it.  I know it's available on TOPS-10 as I have run it.
> >
> > On Friday, December 13, 2024 at 11:20:36 AM UTC-6 steve...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> >     I've only run ITS on my PiDP10 (where I've used itstar to move data to/from Linux), but I found a discussion about putting files onto TOPS-10:
> >

> > https://alt.sys.pdp10.narkive.com/X8g7cWuv/putting-files-on-tops-10-tape-from-linux <https://alt.sys.pdp10.narkive.com/X8g7cWuv/putting-files-on-tops-10-tape-from-linux> <https://alt.sys.pdp10.narkive.com/X8g7cWuv/putting-files-on-tops-10-tape-from-linux <https://alt.sys.pdp10.narkive.com/X8g7cWuv/putting-files-on-tops-10-tape-from-linux>>

> >
> >     The consensus seems to be that kermit is the best tool for the job. No idea if it would work for you but I thought I'd pass the link along in case it helps.
> >
> >     Steve
> >
> >     On 12/13/24 12:04 PM, Tim Radde wrote:
> >      > Tried this method with PIP.  Does the same as trying to post directly into Basic.  Loads about 10-12 lines then stops and sits mid-line.
> >      >
> >      > On Friday, December 13, 2024 at 10:31:51 AM UTC-6 Tim Radde wrote:
> >      >
> >      > Interesting on this Monopoly game.  I have one written in Basic.  For what system I don't remember. Think an HP 2000 Basic.  I have tried to make it run on many different
> >      > Basics with little luck.  Each is a bit different.  It uses a Common directive which many don't support.  It also uses random access files and Chains between multiple Basic files.  It's contained in about 10 or 12 files.  The first sets up the database (not really, but a file containing all the properties to be used later, along with costs, etc).
> >      > I might try it on Tops-10 and see if Basic there works.  I had to type it all in from the printout I have of it.  And since it's almost a 50 year old listing it's faded in some
> >      > areas.  I am sure there are typos.  I have already fixed many.  I wasn't sure how to load it in and maybe your PIP solution will work.  I am surprised the PTR thing doesn't work as that is how I would have normally done it.   Just trying to paste the file contents into BASIC must overflow a buffer as it loads about 20 lines.
> >      >
> >      > On Wednesday, February 14, 2024 at 3:35:04 AM UTC-6 nige...@gmail.com wrote:
> >      >
> >      > Thanks to everyone that helped me out on this problem (especially Clem with his patience re my lack of knowledge of many areas).
> >      >
> >      > In the end I by-passed the magtape route, and simple went for a TTY solution:
> >      >
> >      > From file: <CTRL-A><CTRL-C>
> >      >
> >      > From emulator:
> >      > .R PIP
> >      > *MYFILE.MAC=TTY:
> >      > <CTRL-SHIFT-V>
> >      > ...
> >      > <CTRL-Z>
> >      > *
> >      >

> >      > It's a bit time-consuming doing changes that way, but it serves its purpose.  The end results can be seen here: https://github.com/nigeleke/monop <https://github.com/nigeleke/monop> <https://github.com/nigeleke/monop <https://github.com/nigeleke/monop>> <https://github.com/nigeleke/monop <https://github.com/nigeleke/monop> <https://github.com/nigeleke/monop <https://github.com/nigeleke/monop>>>

> >      > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-10/7bb2d4da-3a7f-4d3e-b1d6-36776eb46c91n%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-10/7bb2d4da-3a7f-4d3e-b1d6-36776eb46c91n%40googlegroups.com> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-10/7bb2d4da-3a7f-4d3e-b1d6-36776eb46c91n%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-10/7bb2d4da-3a7f-4d3e-b1d6-36776eb46c91n%40googlegroups.com>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-10/7bb2d4da-3a7f-4d3e-b1d6-36776eb46c91n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-10/7bb2d4da-3a7f-4d3e-b1d6-36776eb46c91n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-10/7bb2d4da-3a7f-4d3e-b1d6-36776eb46c91n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-10/7bb2d4da-3a7f-4d3e-b1d6-36776eb46c91n%40googlegroups.com?

> utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>>.
> >      >
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[Tim Radde]

I found something a bit more useful I think.  Too bad I don't have an Alt key on this laptop to exit the Kermit server.  I got all the way from connecting to the 10, and starting a Kermit server but could not send Alt-X to send me back to the non server Kermit to do anything.  So close ....

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[Steven A. Falco]

You don't say which laptop you have, but if it is a macbook, then the option key should be equivalent to the alt key as used in windoze.

Steve

[Steven A. Falco]

And of course if your laptop has a usb port then you should be able to plug in a cheap keyboard. Many are < $10 on Amazon.

Steve

[Tim Radde]

I could not do the Alt-X that would exit the server, but leave it running.  I then later doing a search found out on a Mac the Alt key is the Command key.  Haven't tried it again yet though.  I may just do it upstairs on my Linux box near the PiDP-10.  If that works then I should be able to SEND files.  

[Tim Radde]

Now this is the manual I have been needing.  Much good stuff there.  Time to sit down an browse thru it esp chapter 9.  Thank you.

[Tim Radde]

According to my web search it said the Command key is Alt.  Yes, it's a MacBook Air.

[Tim Radde]

That would be too easy. :)

[Nigel Eke]

Ha - don't look tooooo closely at the Monopoly game. It's a little buggy. I don't know if it's "my re-typing in" bugs or "original" bugs. I cross-checked the code as best I could, so I'm putting them down to "original", but not inspecting them further though...

[Tim Radde]

No worries.  I haven't even thought of trying it yet.  I still am trying to get this Basic code over onto my TOPS-10 disk to see if it will run.  I too am sure there are still typos.  As it was probably 1000-2000 lines typed in manually.  I caught many of the early ones just trying to run on RSTS, but there are 10 files and I am only on the 3rd I think.  I'd like to see it run as it's one of the most inclusive versions I've seen.  I never heard of yours so don't know and yours may be even better.

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[Tim Radde]

Well, I tried it from my laptop (Mac) and my Linux box.  Neither do anything at the point of pressing Alt-x (Command X on Mac) and Alt-x on Linux.  Yes, I do get to running K10MIT (TOPS-10 Kermit).  I can start it as a server, but can't then get back to the client.  So I am kind stuck for now.

[Lars Brinkhoff]

Maybe if DECnet is up an running on TOPS-10, it would be possible to do some kind of FTP over the network?

[Tim Radde]

Could be.  But not likely to happen.  I will figure out an easier way.  I'd rather not have to gen a TOPS-10 system and this seems to require that from what I have read so far unless the image I used already has it configured.  No idea on how to check that though.  I don't need to add something new to my stack of things to do. :)

On Sat, Dec 14, 2024 at 12:30 AM Lars Brinkhoff <lars.br...@gmail.com> wrote:

Maybe if DECnet is up an running on TOPS-10, it would be possible to do some kind of FTP over the network?

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[Steven A. Falco]

When I use Kermit, the key sequence to escape back is ^\ C. In other words, type control-backslash followed by C. I don't know where you found the alt-x command; perhaps that is what you'd use on RSX when calling out to another computer from your RSX system.

When kermit starts up on your macbook it might say what the escape key is. For example, here is what I get connecting to the serial port on my PiDP-11 from my Linux desktop. Notice that it says to use control-backslash followed by "C":

Connecting to /dev/serial/by-id/usb-FTDI_FT232R_USB_UART_AC013VJY-if00-port0, speed 115200
Escape character: Ctrl-\ (ASCII 28, FS): enabled
Type the escape character followed by C to get back,
or followed by ? to see other options.

Does yours print anything similar?

Steve

On 12/13/24 08:22 PM, Tim Radde wrote:
> Well, I tried it from my laptop (Mac) and my Linux box.  Neither do anything at the point of pressing Alt-x (Command X on Mac) and Alt-x on Linux.  Yes, I do get to running K10MIT (TOPS-10 Kermit).  I can start it as a server, but can't then get back to the client.  So I am kind stuck for now.
>
> On Friday, December 13, 2024 at 5:09:39 PM UTC-6 Tim Radde wrote:
>
> No worries.  I haven't even thought of trying it yet.  I still am trying to get this Basic code over onto my TOPS-10 disk to see if it will run.  I too am sure there are still typos.  As it was probably 1000-2000 lines typed in manually.  I caught many of the early ones just trying to run on RSTS, but there are 10 files and I am only on the 3rd I think.  I'd like to see it run as it's one of the most inclusive versions I've seen.  I never heard of yours so don't know and yours may be even better.
>
> On Fri, Dec 13, 2024 at 4:57 PM Nigel Eke <nige...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Ha - don't look tooooo closely at the Monopoly game. It's a little buggy. I don't know if it's "my re-typing in" bugs or "original" bugs. I cross-checked the code as best I could, so I'm putting them down to "original", but not inspecting them further though...
>
> On Saturday, 14 December 2024 at 03:31:51 UTC+11 timr...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Interesting on this Monopoly game.  I have one written in Basic.  For what system I don't remember. Think an HP 2000 Basic.  I have tried to make it run on many different
> Basics with little luck.  Each is a bit different.  It uses a Common directive which many don't support.  It also uses random access files and Chains between multiple Basic files.  It's contained in about 10 or 12 files.  The first sets up the database (not really, but a file containing all the properties to be used later, along with costs, etc).
> I might try it on Tops-10 and see if Basic there works.  I had to type it all in from the printout I have of it.  And since it's almost a 50 year old listing it's faded in some
> areas.  I am sure there are typos.  I have already fixed many.  I wasn't sure how to load it in and maybe your PIP solution will work.  I am surprised the PTR thing doesn't work as that is how I would have normally done it.   Just trying to paste the file contents into BASIC must overflow a buffer as it loads about 20 lines.
>
> On Wednesday, February 14, 2024 at 3:35:04 AM UTC-6 nige...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Thanks to everyone that helped me out on this problem (especially Clem with his patience re my lack of knowledge of many areas).
>
> In the end I by-passed the magtape route, and simple went for a TTY solution:
>
> From file: <CTRL-A><CTRL-C>
>
> From emulator:
> .R PIP
> *MYFILE.MAC=TTY:
> <CTRL-SHIFT-V>
> ...
> <CTRL-Z>
> *
>

> It's a bit time-consuming doing changes that way, but it serves its purpose.  The end results can be seen here: https://github.com/nigeleke/monop <https://github.com/nigeleke/monop>

>
> Thanks again,
> NIgel
>
> On Thursday 1 February 2024 at 03:00:50 UTC+11 John Forecast wrote:
>
> I am the author of "fsio". You should be able to use it to create an RT11 floppy image which can be read with RTFLX on TOPS-10 (ks10 only). However, once again you will need to perform a SYSGEN since the RX20 device driver is not included in the default monitor.
>
>   John.
> On Friday, January 26, 2024 at 10:32:00 AM UTC-5 cl...@ccc.com wrote:
>
> Nigel - the easiest way I have found is using tape files.   I have several tools for the same.   I tended to use PDP-10 backup/PDP-20 dumper format, for which I have a couple of different implementations for UNIX, but there is also a version of the v7 tar for TOPS-10/TOPS-20 in the wild (I think I have it also somewhere), as well as lots of tools to run on Unix that read/write ANSI labeled tapes.
>
> Contact me offline if you have questions, I'll be happy to make what I have available.
>
> One other thought .. (I've never tried this personally), but ... Bob has a tool in the simtools/converter directory called fsio, which can read/write RT11/DOS8 and a few other formats.  TOPS-10 has a tool called RTFLX that reads RT-11 formatted disks.   While the size of an RX01/02 floppy is smaller than Magtape, I believe that the RX20 drive and controller will read
>
> ToDo - update the OpenSimh tools directory to add some more of the tape tools.

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[Steven A. Falco]

I should have said "TOPS-10" instead of "RSX" but that doesn't matter.

There have been many implementations of the kermit protocol over the years. Pretty much all Linux and Mac kermit programs are based on the "C-Kermit" source code, which uses the escape sequence I mentioned in my previous email.

Steve

[Tim Radde]

I think the directions I used assume Kermit-95 for Windows and it specifically states Alt-X.  I will try this Ctrl-\C thing to see if that works.  I don't seem to remember it showing the escape sequence but I could have overlooked it.  I had never used the "Connect" command before as I had just been directly telnet-ing to the 10.  Yes, it

does indeed show this Ctrl-\C thing if I connect.  Thank you.  Maybe I can finally make this work.

[Tim Radde]

That did indeed make it work and I copied all the files I needed.  Then I verified they were there and they are.  I owe you a beer or a glass of your favorite drink.

On Saturday, December 14, 2024 at 8:34:14 AM UTC-6 steve...@gmail.com wrote:

[Steven A. Falco]

Glad I could help. I've been using Kermit pretty much since "day 1". It is a great tool!

Steve

> > It's a bit time-consuming doing changes that way, but it serves its purpose.  The end results can be seen here: https://github.com/nigeleke/monop <https://github.com/nigeleke/monop> <https://github.com/nigeleke/monop <https://github.com/nigeleke/monop>>

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[Tim Radde]

Oh, I agree Kermit is a great tool.  I used it often back in the day.  Not so much these days though.