Rudder Bushing Size Pearson 26 OD

[Chris Denny]

Hello everyone,

I dropped my rudder on my Pearson 26 OD (Hull 001) to replace the bushings. I'm on this website for new parts, based on Dan's excellent advice/website: 

https://www.rigrite.com/Hardware/Rudder_Hardware/RudderBushings.php

There are 2 bushing options for the P26, one is 2 3/8'' and the other is "less than" 2 3/8''.

I measured my rudder shaft. At the bottom it is exactly 2 5/16'', but near the top it is exactly 2 3/8''. I checked my measurements many times. So, which parts should I buy?

Many thanks,
Chris

[Michael Jonas]

Hello everyone 

I would use less that  “2 3/8”

Sent from my iPad

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[Dan Pfeiffer]

Sounds like the bottom (2-5/16) is worn?

[Chris Denny]

Dan, I think that the bottom is just worn a little. Very uniform wear where the existing bushing is. Do you think that's a problem?

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Sounds like it's worn about 1/16 in diameter?  How's the surface?  Smooth?  Grooves?  Pitting?  It should be the same diameter at top and bottom. 

I would get the 2-3/8 bushings and do an epoxy/graphite build as I did on at the bottom. 
http://dan.pfeiffer.net/p26/rudder.htm

I did that 25 years ago and a bit has changed since then.  Now I would use West System GF Flex epoxy rather than 105/205.  The G Flex will stick to the aluminum better.  I still would see about cleaning the aluminum with an etching solution. 

You can use the new bushing as a mold.  Thoroughly wax all surfaces.

A piece of this might work better as a mold:
https://www.mcmaster.com/8585K32/

It's 2-3/8 ID and clear so you can see that the epoxy fill is properly filled.  After the epoxy sets crack this off with a happer or cut it.  Then a bit of sanding with 400 or 600 grit to make the new surface a wee bit smaller for easy fit.   An issue might be that it it somewhat easily distorted from round so mind that.  But I think it will work.

After that you have two 2-3/8 surfaces for the bushings. 


You may (probably) also need to do some work on the bottom of the rudder tube that the bushing fits in.  It's likely a bit enlarged.   I would do basically the same thing using the bushing as the male mold and then leave it in place.  But you need to set the rudder in place as the epoxy cures to get proper alignment top and bottom.   



I would recommend that when a P26 or a P30 is sitting not in use that the rudder be turned backwards for the resting position.  That takes a lot of the weight off the bushings and will reduce wear that would occur just from passing wakes and such for the 95% of the time the boat isn't being sailed.    The rudder will sit a little deeper in the water so be sure that's not a problem. 

Dan Pfeiffer

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[Chris Denny]

Thanks, Dan. I'll give the epoxy a go on the shaft. The area that is worn is very smooth, no pitting, and evenly worn just where the bushing was.

You're right about the bottom of the rudder tube, it is enlarged and a bit cracked. I was going to do an epoxy mold there too. I can't reset the actual rudder unless I have my yard put the boat in the travel lift. So, do you think I could stick a 2 3/8'' pole/pipe down the rudder tube (with the bushings on it) to act in place of the rudder shaft so that I can properly align the bottom epoxy?

Thanks for your advice.

Chris

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Yes to the substitute for the rudder shaft.  Good idea.  The alignment is what's important or things will bind.  

I would expect the rudder to be a bit stiff at first after this repair. 

Dan Pfeiffer

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[Jeff Griglack]

Chris,

When I bought rudder bushings for the P30, I bought them from D&R Marine and not from RIgRite.  The price is much less and I have usually found them more responsive than RigRite.

http://www.drmarine.com/products.asp?cat=290

Jeff

------------------------------------------------------------------
| Jeff Griglack             "Jabberwocky" P-365 #269

------------------------------------------------------------------
| "Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent"
|                   - Walt Kelly
| 'Years ago my mother used to say to me, she'd say, "In this
| world, Elwood, you must be" – she always called me Elwood –
| "In this world, Elwood, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant."
| Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. You may quote me.'
|               —James Stewart as Elwood P. Dowd
------------------------------------------------------------------

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/bee691f124864805060a448244d99341%40pfeiffer.net.

[George DuBose]

Rigrite is the last place I would buy anything, they are severely
overpriced and in my experience, have lousy customer service.

D&R sells bushings for P26s or P30s, but these Delrin bushings would be
easy to make by someone with a good lathe.

George/Skylark

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[George DuBose]

Also, I recall on several instances, the bushings as delivered needed
some slight size modification (sanding) to get a good fit.

George/Skylark

On Sun, 7 Mar 2021 13:02:11 -0800 (PST), Chris Denny wrote:

> pearso...@googlegroups.com

[George DuBose]

I tried the epoxy mixed with graphite when trying to build a bearing
surface on the corroded and pitted aluminum shaft of the P26 rudder.
Later, I realized that graphite while making a good bearing surface, is
very far from aluminum on the galvanic scale. I think the problem of
aluminum rudder post corrosion is due to the fact that the close
tolerance between the Delrin bushings and the aluminum post is that the
water trapped in the very thin space and doesn't circulate. The rudder
post is at an angle and is pressing on the forward side of the bushing
when at rest. The water in this thin space loses its oxygen and that
causes the aluminum to corrode more quickly. I think it is called
anaerobic corrosion due to the lack of oxygen in this narrow space.

The graphite, in my opinion, only accelerated the demise of the
aluminum rudder post.

Eventually, the rudder blade jumped ship and is now resting on the
bottom of Gardiner's Bay, NY.

I bought a new rudder from D&R with a stainless steel post.

...but my P26 is gone. Anyone want to buy the rudder with the stainless
steel shaft., which I saved.

George/Skylark





On Sun, 07 Mar 2021 17:40:34 -0500, Dan Pfeiffer wrote:
> d...@pfeiffer.net

[George DuBose]

I once ordered end blocks for my P36 traveller. RigRite listed them on
their website, but told me it would take 3 months to make them.

After three months passed and no word from RigRite, I dug a little
deeper and found that Garhauer had a lot of parts for these old style
"X" travellers and while RigRite was asking $300 per block, Garhauer's
price was only $75 per block.

I avoid RigRite like the plague...

George/Skylark

https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/CAJj5SXJ8W4eEp%2B1Y_HPc6AjUpzTA2-NdjsKtnhQ%2BbR6_zS%3De2Q%40mail.gmail.com.

[Jeff Griglack]

George,

I think you would need a metal lathe to do this in order to get proper accuracy on the Delrin.  I only have a wood lathe and don't have access to a metal lathe, so buying them from D&R made sense to me.  The inside diameter was a little too tight, so I used a brake cylinder hone tool (bought at the local auto parts store), on my drill, to remove material on the inside, but was careful not to remove too much.  The hone helped to keep what I did remove even and consistent through the whole bushing.  You want them to be tight, but not bind up.

I have dealt with RigRite a couple of times.  I really only buy from them when I can't find it elsewhere.  Their prices are not good, and their customer service leaves a little to be desired as well.  I did buy the new mast step for the P365 from them, but that was after looking at other possible sources.

------------------------------------------------------------------
| Jeff Griglack             "Jabberwocky" P-365 #269

------------------------------------------------------------------
| "Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent"
|                   - Walt Kelly
| 'Years ago my mother used to say to me, she'd say, "In this
| world, Elwood, you must be" – she always called me Elwood –
| "In this world, Elwood, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant."
| Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. You may quote me.'
|               —James Stewart as Elwood P. Dowd
------------------------------------------------------------------

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/20210308073241105988.8c96aad8%40george-dubose.com.

[david.l...@gmail.com]

George,

Your take on RigRite is spot on.
I kept after them for more than a 5 months for a replacement furler drum assembly.

They kept confirming the order and the delivery date but nothing actually shipped out. I cancelled the order at the end of the season.
I tried yet one more time that December and made friends with the woman who was taking my incessant calls (and those from other potential customers), on the phone. We traded jokes and laughed a lot. She took pity on me and it only took yet another four months to finally get the replacements shipped out. Without her inside help that would have never happened.

Once I got the furler, I still had to do a lot of tweaking/remanufacturing to center it and to make it spin smoothly. Good to finally have the parts - but not a reliable way to keep my baby on the water.

If anyone is considering RigRite - probability is low but not impossible - take other options if you can find them.

-DaveL

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/20210308081317872938.84b24321%40george-dubose.com.

[david.l...@gmail.com]

I've heard similar warnings about using graphite-impregnated packing in stuffing boxes against SS shafts. Consistent evidence of the SS shaft becoming the sacrificial.

-DaveL


-----Original Message-----
From: pearso...@googlegroups.com <pearso...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of George DuBose
Sent: Monday, March 8, 2021 2:07 AM
To: pearso...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [pearson ] Rudder Bushing Size Pearson 26 OD

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[Dan Pfeiffer]

I think West 404 high density filler would also be a good choice for a new bearing surface in this shaft repair.

I didn't worry about the graphite in my fresh water location but I can see that being a concern.  But I don't know how much electrical connection you would get with the graphite bound up in all that epoxy.  Might be worth an experiment to find out. 

Whatever filler is used the result only restores a bearing surface.  It does nothing to strengthen the shaft.  If there was pitting and erosion of the aluminum that weakened the shaft it will still be just as vulnerable to failure. 


For more on corrosion of all types I highly recommend this book:

Collier, Everett 2001 A Boat Owners Guide to Corrosion, International Marine



Dan Pfeiffer

[Jeff Griglack]

As far as stuffing used in stuffing boxes, I have had very good luck with Gore GFO Packing http://gfopacking.com/

------------------------------------------------------------------
| Jeff Griglack             "Jabberwocky" P-365 #269

------------------------------------------------------------------
| "Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent"
|                   - Walt Kelly
| 'Years ago my mother used to say to me, she'd say, "In this
| world, Elwood, you must be" – she always called me Elwood –
| "In this world, Elwood, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant."
| Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. You may quote me.'
|               —James Stewart as Elwood P. Dowd
------------------------------------------------------------------

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/1bae01d71547%2439ed18e0%24adc74aa0%24%40gmail.com.

[Chris Denny]

I got the new bushings in from D&R. They fit well.

Do I need to epoxy the bushings to the rudder tube? The folks at D&R said the bushings should be epoxied to the tube so they don't spin when the rudder shaft spins inside of them. The previous bushings were not epoxied to the tube and freely spun.

Thanks!

Chris

[Jeff Griglack]

No, you rough up the outside of the bushings, apply some thickened epoxy, and epoxy them to the fiberglass tube on the boat.  The rudder shaft moved against the delrin, but you don't want the delrin to spin on the fiberglass tube.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/567f5016-8280-43a9-8d56-5e4338608500n%40googlegroups.com.

[Jeff Griglack]

Sorry, I misread your message and thought you were going to epoxy them to the shaft. :). The bushings have areas where they are flat, and you are mostly filling that with the thickened epoxy.

On Fri, Mar 12, 2021, 2:37 PM Chris Denny <chrisq...@gmail.com> wrote:

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/567f5016-8280-43a9-8d56-5e4338608500n%40googlegroups.com.

[George DuBose]

I might think about using West System G-Flex as it bonds well to
plastics. When glueing HDPE, I had to "oxides" the HDPE with a propane
torch, not burn it but heat it well.

George/Skylark

https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/567f5016-8280-43a9-8d56-5e4338608500n%40googlegroups.com.