Holder Juki Nozzle

[Alexander]

Holder 14 Juki Nozzle. N20 motor in the X Y plane, moving in the Z plane in the future.

[Mike Menci]

Opening & Closing the nozzle holder is much more simple with a servo and Smoothieboard. 

https://grabcad.com/library/juki-nozzle-changer-park-1

[Jason von Nieda]

Beautiful work!

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[Alexander]

Mike, I am familiar with your design. For my N20 motor control mechanism, one controller output is enough. I don’t see that it will be easier with a servo, this is a matter of taste and possibilities.
But this is not the whole mechanism, in the future it will move along the Z vertical.

четверг, 24 августа 2023 г. в 22:59:33 UTC+3, Jason von Nieda:

[Wayne Black]

Nice work Alexander. I having a hard time envisioning the " future it will move along the Z vertical ". How and why?

[Alexander]

Wayne Black, the basis of the "Z" vertical movement mechanism, four screws rotating synchronously and will move the mechanism that I attached in the first message.

пятница, 25 августа 2023 г. в 17:43:52 UTC+3, black...@blackboxembedded.com:

[vespaman]

Alexander,

Nice work!

Is the Z movement for getting the nozzles out of their way when, and bring them up only when there's  a nozzle change due, or is it intended to be pulling/pushing the nozzle from/into the head?

 - Micael

[Jonathan Oxer]

I have one of the DeltaPrintr nozzle holders which I intended to install in a Kayo A4, but then I discovered that the A4 only has about 13mm of Z movement which isn't quite enough to move the retracted nozzle over the holder and then extend it far enough to be latched and removed:

https://www.deltaprintr.com/product/nozzle-magazine/

There's nothing wrong with the nozzle holder, it's a limitation caused by the short Z travel of the A4 so I considered adding a z-axis movement to the holder.

Sadly the nozzle holders in the A4 are very strong and it can't exert enough force to unload a nozzle anyway, so I shelved the idea. It's nice to see this problem being solved though.

Jon

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[Markus Rechberger]

Hi Jonathan,

can you give me the exact measurement of the Holder in the Kayo A4? I
have made some magnetic nozzle holders for the Juki Nozzles. Maybe it
might fit. I built my own machine but have only deployed 2 heads so
far, 6 more are on the list but I'm not in a hurry with it.
So far I have not experienced any issues with our nozzle holder, of
course if you crash it - it might be misaligned and might need some
new mechanical calibration ;-)

Markus

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[mark maker]

Just to make a more complete picture:

There are other solutions, where the Z travel is made irrelevant, both in terms of available head-room and in terms of force needed to couple/decouple a nozzle tip.

PnP machines are usually weak on their Z motors, because we want light heads for speed (acceleration), obviously, and therefore we want small motors. Lifting parts is obviously very light work, so it would be a shame to sacrifice that design goal for the very few nozzle tip changes that happen in a job.

However the X, Y motors are usually strong, so users have made "wedge" holders, where the coupling and decoupling is done by driving X or Y against wedges that separate or connect nozzle tips. This also makes them passive (no extra motor, signalling or power needed). I think there is potential to make these way more compact, and/or to share one wedge for all the tips that then branches out into slots (see the discussion in the second link):

https://youtu.be/KRR3bC9j_3s?feature=shared

https://groups.google.com/g/openpnp/c/xAWzXVgXSUQ/m/8orHMgBxBQAJ

The wedge design allows for quite fast and fluid motion, so I'm actually not so sure it is necessarily slower than the active design discussed here (if your machine's Z can do it at all).

Btw., I would always sink the nozzle tip holder into the table, if possible, to avoid any risk of collision. This example (my machine) is not a wedge design, it just shows the aspect of being sunken:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uFxV1-vnXw

_Mark

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[vespaman]

For machines with the double wheel pushing down kind (like e.g. the chmt), the z-motor will not have the power to keep the nozzle upwards push, so the push-on must be against the Z end stops. (The wedge to get it off is trouble free, but to push it on again is the problem here). It probably depends on the actual nozzle lock force as well, of course.

(warning: chmt rants;)

I did a nozzle changer like this for my machine, with a huge ski slope, which seemed to work but decided it was taking way too much space. Then I almost finished a solution with only one ski slope, and a revolving 8-nozzle store. (Did it just for fun, learning FreeCAD). Still used too much precious space, for my needs.

Granted, a chmt 36/48 type machine is perhaps more complicated to do a changer for, since it has the drag pin solenoid behind the nozzles that is "always in the way" for advanced maneuvering.

Then I tested a turning lock on each nozzle, pushing the three balls in. This worked fine, but I decided that it might not be a good solution in the long run, since nozzles are turning so much themselves, that maybe this could unlock the nozzle during run. (And the parts was a bit tough to 3d print on an FDM printer). I have since got myself a resin printer, so maybe I will try this again, with some kind of push-up-then-turn-lock.

(Now I am experimenting with a traditional "push-up to release nozzle" -lock (one on each nozzle, weak spring pushing the lock ring down), 3d printed on resin printer, but the tolerances are tough, so I am not happy with those yet :-)).

 - Micael

[Alexander]

Micael.

Yes, this Z movement is designed to get the tips out of the way and only raise them when the tip needs to be replaced.

понедельник, 28 августа 2023 г. в 10:04:12 UTC+3, micael....@gmail.com:

[bing luo]

Using an electromagnet is simpler than using an N20 motor, requiring only a high-level signal to drive it.

[Alexander]

bing luo.
Electromagnet code, specification and where to buy?

понедельник, 28 августа 2023 г. в 20:51:30 UTC+3, tianl...@gmail.com:

[Wayne Black]

ah ok, for the CHMT cantilever Z head. I have a 36V and got some 'precision' brass juki holders from aliexpress but have not used them as the length is incorrect. Tho the length is wrong the clamping/releasing of the juki nozzles are much much smoother and dont stick w the precision juki holders...

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Wayne Black

Owner

Black Box Embedded, LLC

black...@blackboxembedded.com

1.831.682.4964

[bing luo]

I haven't tested it before, but I think a stroke of 15mm and a traction force of 15Nm are enough. You can use a spring on the left and an electromagnet on the right. When powered on, the white plastic will be pulled 15mm to the right. When powered off, the spring will return the plastic sheet to its original position. 

[Mike Menci]

@ Mark

can you please advice How to get this servo "Lock- Unlock " working ? 

I have it working if I press manual Actuator on or off ---- but not at Nozzles Change actuator : 

See enclosed sketch ----- what am I doing wrong ?

[mark maker]

Hi Mike,

this code is not by me, but looking at it I see it just always actuates ON.

This means you need to make two actuators, one to open, one to close, and assign them accordingly. And on both actuators you only need to assign the ON case G-code.

https://github.com/openpnp/openpnp/pull/1040

Needless to say, this has some room for improvement. 😉 A second issue, is that this binds actuators by name (the old way), so if you rename the actuator later, things will be broken.

_Mark

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[Mike Menci]

Hi Mark 

Thanks for fast respond - I did it now this way (see enclosed) 

- but I did not get the point of assign the ON case G code ?? what do you mean by this?
I have it now working with two windows (in one window I can open - 2nd window I can Close) but it is not taking commands in tools - nozzle  changer window ?? 

See enclosed - What am I doing wrong way ?  

[Mark]

> but I did not get the point of assign the ON case G code ?? what do you mean by this?

Make this "True", not "False". Both actuators only use the "True" = ON case.

_Mark

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[Mike Menci]

Mark you wrote: "but looking at it I see it just always actuates ON."  

No,  at 1st test above I could trigger it on or off manually from the same window !!?? 

See here from conf. txt

When I changed false to True now - it works from two windows - thanks. 

To add delay  for servo to finish move -  I add:  

{True:M280.1}
G4P{True:200} 

Correct ?

Mike

[Mark]

> Mark you wrote: "but looking at it I see it just always actuates ON." 
> No,  at 1st test above I could trigger it on or off manually from the same window !!??

Not sure I understand what you mean.

I'm talking about how the actuators are actuated when the nozzle tip load or unload is done by OpenPnP and that is always actuating ON.

But if you are manually using the actuator control panel, then of course you can press Off too.

{True:M280.1}

G4P{True:200} 

Correct ?

This works but is not really correct in case you are using the actuator control panel. This is better:

{True:M280.1}

{True:G4P 200} 

_Mark

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[Mike Menci]

Solved - All working - Thanks Mark.

[Alexander]

четверг, 31 августа 2023 г. в 12:38:59 UTC+3, mike....@gmail.com:

[Alexander]

Juki holder + Z-movement drive.

среда, 25 сентября 2024 г. в 10:31:27 UTC+3, Alexander:

[Bingluo]

nice!!!!

---- Replied Message ----

From	Alexander<785...@gmail.com>
Date	09/28/2024 21:24
To	OpenPnP<ope...@googlegroups.com>
Cc
Subject	Re: [OpenPnP] Re: Holder Juki Nozzle

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[Alex]

Prepared for final testing. Video of one work cycle.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1qIhqsQdO6_vebQucDKTSOksHgCriRuE5/view?usp=sharing

суббота, 28 сентября 2024 г. в 16:39:11 UTC+3, tianl...@gmail.com:

[Alex]

Juki holder + Z-movement drive, gif animation.

пятница, 11 апреля 2025 г. в 16:19:31 UTC+3, Alex: