Good deal for Siplace feeders ( 5$ / piece in bulk)

[Jarosław Karwik]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/253495131309?ViewItem=&item=253495131309&ssPageName=ADME:X:COCE:GB:3160

I got offer for 1150$, so it is actually around 5$ / feeder

Unfortunately I am unlikely to be able to arrange reasonable shipment to EU ( this looks like to be  big EU palletes after packaging).

Maybe there is somebody in US interested ? I would certainly buy part of it.

[Mike Menci]

This feeders are not compatible with Schultz controller that Bill did for Open PnP - be aware !
Mike

[Jarosław Karwik]

I have asked for their types as it is not obvious from pictures.

I have seen only typical Siemens  cables, so I have assumed that they might  be compatible - such cable suggests serial communication after all.

[Mike Menci]

They should look like this; https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10-pcs-Siemens-Siplace-S-Feeders-2x8mm/124195297506?hash=item1cea9dd8e2:g:AjUAAOSwopNexqW2

but this are 5 pcs only

[Jarosław Karwik]

I know :-)

It all looked to good to be true - most likely the ones from my link are older ones ( still have not got answer about their type)

I will stay with my mechanical ones ( Dima /  Optimat), although fully electrical looked tempting.

[Bernd Walter]

On Sun, Jul 05, 2020 at 11:16:58PM -0700, Jaros??aw Karwik wrote:
> I have asked for their types as it is not obvious from pictures.
>
> I have seen only typical Siemens cables, so I have assumed that they
> might be compatible - such cable suggests serial communication after all.

They work very well and use the same mounting system.
Most of my feeders are of this style.
You have to hook them up to 30V and send a +30V pulse on one of the
two additional wires, depending on the lane you want to feed.
The 8mm can only do 4mm feeds and they have no shutter.
The wider ones have a rotary encoder switch for multiples of 4mm.
Very simple electronic inside.
They also need more cover tape and occasionally you may even need a
cover tape expansion for a new reel.

>
>
> W dniu poniedzia??ek, 6 lipca 2020 08:12:12 UTC+2 u??ytkownik Mike Menci
> napisa??:

> >
> > This feeders are not compatible with Schultz controller that Bill did for
> > Open PnP - be aware !
> > Mike
>

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--
B.Walter <be...@bwct.de> http://www.bwct.de
Modbus/TCP Ethernet I/O Baugruppen, ARM basierte FreeBSD Rechner uvm.

[Bernd Walter]

On Mon, Jul 06, 2020 at 02:53:56AM -0700, Jaros??aw Karwik wrote:
> I know :-)
>
> It all looked to good to be true - most likely the ones from my link are
> older ones ( still have not got answer about their type)
> I will stay with my mechanical ones ( Dima / Optimat), although fully
> electrical looked tempting.

The Siplace feeder from the ebay listing have a push rod on the top
as well to be compatible with older mechanical once.
There is a switch below that.
Nevertheless, I actuate them with the pulse on the wire.
I also own some of the yet even older mechanical ones, but they require
a lot of activation force.

That said, unless you need 2mm, I would buy them.
The serve me well for 0603 and bigger.

>
>
>
> W dniu poniedzia??ek, 6 lipca 2020 11:29:20 UTC+2 u??ytkownik Mike Menci
> napisa??:

> >
> > They should look like this;
> > https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10-pcs-Siemens-Siplace-S-Feeders-2x8mm/124195297506?hash=item1cea9dd8e2:g:AjUAAOSwopNexqW2
> > but this are 5 pcs only
> >
> > On Monday, 6 July 2020 at 08:16:58 UTC+2 jarosla...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> >> I have asked for their types as it is not obvious from pictures.
> >>
> >> I have seen only typical Siemens cables, so I have assumed that they
> >> might be compatible - such cable suggests serial communication after all.
> >>
> >>

> >> W dniu poniedzia??ek, 6 lipca 2020 08:12:12 UTC+2 u??ytkownik Mike Menci
> >> napisa??:

> >>>
> >>> This feeders are not compatible with Schultz controller that Bill did
> >>> for Open PnP - be aware !
> >>> Mike
> >>
> >>
>

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[Marek T.]

Hi Bernd,

So you have Siplaces and Chinese CL feeders. Ignoring pneumatic-electric difference, can you comment working quality difference? Mainly position stability and parts jump-out problems.

[Jarosław Karwik]

Is anybody interested in getting some ?

I checked all the info, shipping, so I am able to buy them and get to EU ( well,cheapest shipping  takes 6-8 weeks ), but 277 feeders is too much even for me :-)

[Marek T.]

Maybe I can be interested but need to check dimensions if can mount it on the machine.

[Bernd Walter]

On Mon, Jul 06, 2020 at 03:32:10AM -0700, Marek T. wrote:
> Hi Bernd,
>
> So you have Siplaces and Chinese CL feeders. Ignoring pneumatic-electric difference, can you comment working quality difference? Mainly position stability and parts jump-out problems.

Not really.
I only use 3 8mm CL feeders, one is 2mm pitch.
Another 8mm pneumatic is older type and not CL.
They work well and I get ocassional misspicks on all feeders, but
I've recently managed to trace them out to be problems with the vacuum
valves - when warm they may be a bit sticky and open delayed.
The old Siplace feeders are shutterless and ocassionally a part gets
flipped, but this is a problem with my machine being shacky and not
during feed.
Teoretically I could feed before picking and the only reason I'm not
doing this is because the wide feeders are kind of slow and I want to
keep them changeable without reconfiguring too much.
However this wasn't a real issue so far and is more problematic for strip
feeders.
All in all I can't complain about any of my automatic feeders so far.

[Bernd Walter]

On Wed, Jul 08, 2020 at 11:01:21PM -0700, Jaros??aw Karwik wrote:
> Is anybody interested in getting some ?
>
> I checked all the info, shipping, so I am able to buy them and get to EU (
> well,cheapest shipping takes 6-8 weeks ), but 277 feeders is too much even
> for me :-)

Problem is that I have a bunch of 8mm feeders.
What I really could use are 12/16mm.
I have a 3D printable adapter on thingiverse to run 16mm tape in a non
schultz generation 24/32 feeder.
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2719845
Only downside is that the 24/32 feeder takes 1.5 feeder slots and the
12/16 only needs one slot.
Let me know what you have left over.
I might even take other withs if you can't find a good home for them.

PS: I just looked into the auction again and noticed something you might
want to check with the seller first.
I havn't seen any feeder with the cover tape reel mounted.
Take a look at the second picture on the right side you see the big gear.
The black part in the middle iss the hub on which you mount the wheel.
If they are missing and have to be replaced this would be a major downside.
It might be posssible to print them with FDM, but not 100% sure.
I will do some pictures of my feeders to show what parts you have to take
care about.
E.g. the wider feeders have width reducers (e.g. the one I recreated).
You have to remove them for wide tapes.
The feeders have a storage mount position so you don't loose them, but
reality is that they do get lost.

> W dniu poniedzia??ek, 6 lipca 2020 12:32:10 UTC+2 u??ytkownik Marek T.
> napisa??:

> >
> > Hi Bernd,
> >
> > So you have Siplaces and Chinese CL feeders. Ignoring pneumatic-electric
> > difference, can you comment working quality difference? Mainly position
> > stability and parts jump-out problems.
> >
>

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[Bernd Walter]

On Thu, Jul 09, 2020 at 09:52:30AM +0200, Bernd Walter wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 08, 2020 at 11:01:21PM -0700, Jaros??aw Karwik wrote:
> > Is anybody interested in getting some ?
> >
> > I checked all the info, shipping, so I am able to buy them and get to EU (
> > well,cheapest shipping takes 6-8 weeks ), but 277 feeders is too much even
> > for me :-)
>
> Problem is that I have a bunch of 8mm feeders.
> What I really could use are 12/16mm.
> I have a 3D printable adapter on thingiverse to run 16mm tape in a non
> schultz generation 24/32 feeder.
> https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2719845
> Only downside is that the 24/32 feeder takes 1.5 feeder slots and the
> 12/16 only needs one slot.
> Let me know what you have left over.
> I might even take other withs if you can't find a good home for them.
>
> PS: I just looked into the auction again and noticed something you might
> want to check with the seller first.
> I havn't seen any feeder with the cover tape reel mounted.
> Take a look at the second picture on the right side you see the big gear.
> The black part in the middle iss the hub on which you mount the wheel.
> If they are missing and have to be replaced this would be a major downside.
> It might be posssible to print them with FDM, but not 100% sure.
> I will do some pictures of my feeders to show what parts you have to take
> care about.

There are 2 pictures showing an 8mm feeder on the side.
Near the pickup reel there is a black lever.
On one picture it is hooked up with a spring and a metal plate to tension
the spring on a rod.
The spring is what created the adjustable cover tape pull force.
The other one is missing those two parts.
Would be easy to replace as the exact measures arn't critical, but at least
one feeder is missing them.

Even if they have put some of the parts aside, always assume that in such
offers there are feeders with missing and/or broken parts.
The are rather easy to take appart and repair, so having spare parts issn't
bad, just keep that in mind that the number of useable feeders will
be reduced.

> E.g. the wider feeders have width reducers (e.g. the one I recreated).
> You have to remove them for wide tapes.
> The feeders have a storage mount position so you don't loose them, but
> reality is that they do get lost.

[Jarosław Karwik]

Thanks for info.

I know that not all are usable - you can even read red stickers on some of them with error reports.

About the cover tape reels - I had similar issue with Dima feeders - it is easy to make replacements from laser cut plastic ( easier then 3D printing - )

I still have not decided about buying - but I am very much tempted. The shipping (total) is about 1000$, so I end up with 2500$ for 277 feeders.

I just asked the seller to be sure that 277 is amount of feeders and not feeder lanes ( as I have seen such way of counting in eBay offers as well).

[Marek T.]

My machine is very shaky as well :-).

That's why a problem of flipping and shutter is important for me.

> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to ope...@googlegroups.com.

[Bernd Walter]

On Thu, Jul 09, 2020 at 02:47:29AM -0700, Marek T. wrote:
> My machine is very shaky as well :-).
> That's why a problem of flipping and shutter is important for me.

Happens very rarely for me on those feeders and isn't an issue at all.
They are very heavy and absorb most of the energy.
And I use them for all sorts of 8mm tapes, since those are my 8mm
working horses.

My strip feeders however are a different issue.
No problem with SO8 strips, but 0603 and 0402 resistors are a problem.
I ocassionally use strips for small volumes to avoid changing automatic
feeders.
You always loose parts when changing tapes, so it doesn't matter if I
loose some parts in strip feeders or by tape changes.

I might end up changing whole feeders instead of just tapes.
That is the downside with those siplace 8mm, a feeder always holds 2
or even 3 tapes and if you need one of the parts you can't change
the whole feeder.
Right now most of my Siplace feeders are still hard wired, so can't
be changed.
I also have some ideas left to add even more feeders or build a second
machine.
Currently I have 26 8mm automatic lanes and those are not enough for
all parts I regularily need.

[Bernd Walter]

On Thu, Jul 09, 2020 at 01:49:30AM -0700, Jarosław Karwik wrote:
> Thanks for info.
>
> I know that not all are usable - you can even read red stickers on some of
> them with error reports.
> About the cover tape reels - I had similar issue with Dima feeders - it is
> easy to make replacements from laser cut plastic ( easier then 3D printing
> - )

I've attached picture of those reels.
I'm pretty sure you can FDM print them.
The clamping noses might need some support material, but shouldn't be a
problem.
The 12/16mm feeders use the same kind of wheel, just a little bit wider.
The even wider feeders use drums, which include the transmissing gear and
are more difficult to replace.

> I still have not decided about buying - but I am very much tempted. The
> shipping (total) is about 1000$, so I end up with 2500$ for 277 feeders.
> I just asked the seller to be sure that 277 is amount of feeders and not
> feeder lanes ( as I have seen such way of counting in eBay offers as well).
>

Didn't thought about lanes vs feeders, but a very good question indeed.
Don't forget costs customs, unless you are a company and get back VAT.

[Marek T.]

Understand. I have some 250 feeders (old mechanical Philips) used for 4 machines - and it is still not too many :-)

Last question, every old and new Siplaces that you know have 2mm advancement? It's the main reason why I think about other feeders than I actualy have.

[Jarosław Karwik]

I have a company and then VAT is neutral for me.

These oldest Siplace feeders seem to be 4mm only. But there is a wheel on motor with single encoder hole - maybe drilling second one would make it 2mm he he

[Bernd Walter]

On Thu, Jul 09, 2020 at 03:57:42AM -0700, Marek T. wrote:
> Understand. I have some 250 feeders (old mechanical Philips) used for 4
> machines - and it is still not too many :-)
> Last question, every old and new Siplaces that you know have 2mm
> advancement? It's the main reason why I think about other feeders than I
> actualy have.

No - only the Schultz can do 2mm.
The older 8mm are 4mm only.
They are accurate enough for 0602, but don't think one feed and
double pick would work with 0402.
0402 is the only reason why I'd like to get my Schultz working.
Otherwise the older ones are perfect for my purspose.
They are slower than the Schultz, which is ok however.
Power consumpsion is even better with the old ones, because they don't
need power at all when idle - that feed pulse triggers an internal self
holding relais, so they are 100% power less when idle.
All my Siplace together take 25mA idle current (@30V) and that is
because of the one 24mm feeder I have mounted right now.

[Bernd Walter]

On Thu, Jul 09, 2020 at 04:08:31AM -0700, Jarosław Karwik wrote:
> I have a company and then VAT is neutral for me.
>
> These oldest Siplace feeders seem to be 4mm only. But there is a wheel on
> motor with single encoder hole - maybe drilling second one would make it
> 2mm he he

They don't have encoder wheels.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKNlFyXO1fY

Unfortunately it is difficult to operate them open, because the coverplate
holds some parts in place.
This is the reason why it got stuck in the second run.

They even have a single motor for both lanes.
Depending on the direction and one way bearings it turns either side.

[Jarosław Karwik]

These do have:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3OMtkqk9J0

They are marked as Siemens AUT 5

[Bernd Walter]

On Thu, Jul 09, 2020 at 04:53:23AM -0700, Jarosław Karwik wrote:
>
>
> These do have:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3OMtkqk9J0

Those are Schultz and they are configureable between 2 and 4mm.
What I saw in the auction are older one.

> They are marked as Siemens AUT 5

They are all AUT5, not matter what generation.

>
>
>
>
> W dniu czwartek, 9 lipca 2020 13:34:32 UTC+2 użytkownik Bernd Walter
> napisał:
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 09, 2020 at 04:08:31AM -0700, Jarosław Karwik wrote:
> > > I have a company and then VAT is neutral for me.
> > >
> > > These oldest Siplace feeders seem to be 4mm only. But there is a wheel
> > on
> > > motor with single encoder hole - maybe drilling second one would make it
> > > 2mm he he
> >
> > They don't have encoder wheels.
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKNlFyXO1fY
> >
> > Unfortunately it is difficult to operate them open, because the coverplate
> > holds some parts in place.
> > This is the reason why it got stuck in the second run.
> >
> > They even have a single motor for both lanes.
> > Depending on the direction and one way bearings it turns either side.
> >
> > --

> > B.Walter <be...@bwct.de <javascript:>> http://www.bwct.de

> > Modbus/TCP Ethernet I/O Baugruppen, ARM basierte FreeBSD Rechner uvm.
> >
>

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[Jarosław Karwik]

Yes, it seems that there are at least two generations of these Schultz feeders.

And for good or bad - the auction seems to be indeed for the oldest generation.

> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to ope...@googlegroups.com.

[Bernd Walter]

On Thu, Jul 09, 2020 at 05:44:56AM -0700, Jarosław Karwik wrote:
> Yes, it seems that there are at least two generations of these Schultz
> feeders.

Schultz are only those with microcontrollers.
AUT5 seems to be a whole series of machines - you see AUT5 markings on
other machine parts as well.
Feeders are S-Type (current machines have X-Type feeders.
S means the mounting system.
The Schultz S-Feeders do have different generation.
My Schultz are a little bit older and have different buttons, but
otherwise they are identic.
Also PCBs have some variations, especially between MCU internal and
external EPROMs.
Not sure if the more modern 3-lane are also called Schultz, but I think
they are.

> And for good or bad - the auction seems to be indeed for the oldest
> generation.

The oldest electrical.
See this video of my, even older, mechanical ones:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mkig0lqc9hk
The machines have had a pneumatic actuator on the head.
As I wrote earlier, the older electrical have a feed button exactly where
the mechanical ones had theirs and are compatible with those old
machines - just have to supply power, which can even be AC on those
feeders.

> > an email to ope...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>.

> > > To view this discussion on the web visit
> > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openpnp/a38f9361-7877-4ecc-bd21-744ee6020f97o%40googlegroups.com.
> >
> >
> >
> > --

> > B.Walter <be...@bwct.de <javascript:>> http://www.bwct.de
> > Modbus/TCP Ethernet I/O Baugruppen, ARM basierte FreeBSD Rechner uvm.
> >
>
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[Marek T.]

Bernd thank you for all that very useful informations!

[Mike Menci]

See enclosed models which I have and are compatible with Bill controller interface to Open PnP

Never models have sticker 2-4mm compatible

and under sprocket clen out drawer small one - easy to buy when you see this black drawer than it is the newer model!!

Mike

[Mike Menci]

Stickers on top

[Bernd Walter]

On Thu, Jul 09, 2020 at 07:38:00AM -0700, Mike Menci wrote:
> Stickers on top [image: Sticker 2mm+4mm.jpg]
>
> On Thursday, 9 July 2020 at 16:36:57 UTC+2 Mike Menci wrote:
>
> > See enclosed models which I have and are compatible with Bill controller
> > interface to Open PnP
> > Never models have sticker 2-4mm compatible

All of this mechanical type are 2mm capable.
Even my very old revision.

The auction however is a completely different mechanic.

[Bernd Walter]

On Thu, Jul 09, 2020 at 04:41:57PM +0200, Bernd Walter wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 09, 2020 at 07:38:00AM -0700, Mike Menci wrote:
> > Stickers on top [image: Sticker 2mm+4mm.jpg]
> >
> > On Thursday, 9 July 2020 at 16:36:57 UTC+2 Mike Menci wrote:
> >
> > > See enclosed models which I have and are compatible with Bill controller
> > > interface to Open PnP
> > > Never models have sticker 2-4mm compatible
>
> All of this mechanical type are 2mm capable.
> Even my very old revision.

I've attached a picture showing the buttons on my Schultz feeders.
Those are the oldest variant I'm aware of and 2mm capable.
Mechanically they should be the same I think.
Beside that drawer you showed - never saw that before.

[Mike Menci]

Herewith Sprocket Cut out on side of some of my feeders and Controller PCBs

Older one V.2.3 ;   V2.4,...  up to newer with V.3.2( on the right of photo attached

Mike

[Mike Menci]

I agree 110% -Correct - "The auction however is a completely different mechanic" !!

Mike

[Bernd Walter]

On Thu, Jul 09, 2020 at 09:34:13AM -0700, Mike Menci wrote:
> Herewith Sprocket Cut out on side of some of my feeders and Controller PCBs
> Older one V.2.3 ; V2.4,... up to newer with V.3.2( on the right of photo
> attached

My feeder, I think have the left PCB version, but with the EPROM in a
socket.
That is how we got the firmware to reverseengineer.

> On Thursday, 9 July 2020 at 16:50:14 UTC+2 be...@bwct.de wrote:
>
> > On Thu, Jul 09, 2020 at 04:41:57PM +0200, Bernd Walter wrote:
> > > On Thu, Jul 09, 2020 at 07:38:00AM -0700, Mike Menci wrote:
> > > > Stickers on top [image: Sticker 2mm+4mm.jpg]
> > > >
> > > > On Thursday, 9 July 2020 at 16:36:57 UTC+2 Mike Menci wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > See enclosed models which I have and are compatible with Bill
> > controller
> > > > > interface to Open PnP
> > > > > Never models have sticker 2-4mm compatible
> > >
> > > All of this mechanical type are 2mm capable.
> > > Even my very old revision.
> >
> > I've attached a picture showing the buttons on my Schultz feeders.
> > Those are the oldest variant I'm aware of and 2mm capable.
> > Mechanically they should be the same I think.
> > Beside that drawer you showed - never saw that before.
> >
> > --
> > B.Walter <be...@bwct.de> http://www.bwct.de
> > Modbus/TCP Ethernet I/O Baugruppen, ARM basierte FreeBSD Rechner uvm.
> >
>

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[Bill Ruckman]

I have extracted the newer firmware from the boards on the right as well.  All of my feeders are that style (-03 or -04 revisions).

--Bill

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openpnp/20200709163736.GA18139%40cicely18.cicely.de.

[Mike Menci]

Tween Feeders for 50 Eur in EU

Look at this on eBay
Siemens Siplace ASM Schulz Feeder 2x8 mm

https://www.ebay.com/itm/133084986132
Mike

[Jarosław Karwik]

I have seen them.

This looks like a good deal as well - unless you are unlucky and get damaged one ( as they are untested)

I have reached a conclusion - I will stick with my Dima feeders. These electrical ones are no gain for me, also I will not be able to easily resale surplus of 20+ years old electrical  feeders without 2mm support.

Dima ( from old Optimat)  are more compact and easier to maintain then electrical ones. They biggest drawback is that they are quite wide (relatively), but I have big machine and can fit about ~50 of them.

I have full set of 8/12/16/24 sizes ( 32 and 44 are available, but I do not have much use for so big ones), there is also possibility to rework them to 2mm.

[Bernd Walter]

On Thu, Jul 09, 2020 at 11:41:03AM -0700, Jaros??aw Karwik wrote:
> I have seen them.
> This looks like a good deal as well - unless you are unlucky and get
> damaged one ( as they are untested)

The seller is located about 15 minutes from here.
AFAIK they deal with different kind of used industrial PnP machines.
I assume they are just that: untested and not intentially defect.
I have one feeder, which is problematic and I suspect a part stuck in
an unreachable part of the feederbox.
By unreachable I mean it requires removing the sprocket wheel and
to recalibrate the pick location.
But most of the time you just have to dismount the lanes and remove
parts from the feeder box stuck between the gears, tighten screws and
maybe replace the shutter dampeners.

>
> I have reached a conclusion - I will stick with my Dima feeders. These
> electrical ones are no gain for me, also I will not be able to easily
> resale surplus of 20+ years old electrical feeders without 2mm support.
>
> Dima ( from old Optimat) are more compact and easier to maintain then
> electrical ones. They biggest drawback is that they are quite wide
> (relatively), but I have big machine and can fit about ~50 of them.
> I have full set of 8/12/16/24 sizes ( 32 and 44 are available, but I do not
> have much use for so big ones), there is also possibility to rework them to
> 2mm.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

> W dniu czwartek, 9 lipca 2020 20:28:47 UTC+2 u??ytkownik Mike Menci napisa??:

> >
> > Tween Feeders for 50 Eur in EU
> >
> > Look at this on eBay
> > Siemens Siplace ASM Schulz Feeder 2x8 mm
> >
> > https://www.ebay.com/itm/133084986132
> > Mike
> >
> >
>

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[Matt Odin]

Those Siemens feeders (2x8) usually sell for $25US/ea (or less) and should be relatively easy to get a hold of.  I come across them all the time.  I've been accumulating them for my project and currently have approx 100units.  These feeders are heavy and the shipping is sometimes more expensive than the feeder itself.  I've been slowly taking them apart (scrapping most of the parts), and building my own version.  From each single 2x8 feeder, I will get 4 single feeders.  For the 8mm feeders, I just use the drive motor and sprocket which advances the tape by 2mm very accurately.  This feeder does not need a takeup reel since the cover tape is just unpeeled on one side and shifted over so the head can pick up the components.  The tape comes out with the cover tape in a single piece which simplifies the design.  See attached pics.  For the 12, 16, 24, 32+ feeders, I only use the cover tape motor to pull back the tape, which advances the sprocket.  Since the components in these feeders are a lot bigger, the accuracy of the advance is not that critical.  (This is the basic design that essemtec uses on their CSM feeders).  I'm running all the motors at 24V and it has more than enough power and speed for my application.

Note:  I'm doing this project part-time (on the weekends only) so it does not always advance quickly.  I'm still making changes to the body (for example: the new version routes the spent tape out the back of the feeder), so don't ask for the stl/step files at this time.  I'll gladly provide them when I'm finished and happy with the design.  As for the controller board,  I've designed the board, but havent sent it out yet.  It uses the quick connect type of connectors, so there are no cables to plug in when installing the feeders.  I'm expecting to send the boards out by the end of July.  If anyone is interested and if I make sufficient progress, I can share more pics.

PS. If someone needs parts from the Siemens feeders I'm scrapping (ie boards, bodies, etc), send me a msg and we can work something out.

Matt

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[Mike Menci]

Hi Matt,

Well done aproach! The only thing is that you might have a problem with parts in tape "jumping out of pockets when advancing tape" if you do not use the "shutter" ! ?  I was thinking of simillar aproach to reduce the weight - as you say this are heavy feeders....

I will send you PM for some parts that you do not need.

Mike

[Matt Odin]

Hi Mike,

So far I have advanced over 1000 (0402) parts thru the feeder at full speed (24V) using both paper and plastic tape, and no parts jump out or flip.  I've seen some comments about it on different forums, my hardware supports motor acceleration, so I can play with the firmware on the feeder should this be a problem in the future.  Besides most people using original Siemens equipment don't use shutters for 8mm feeders anymore, they switched to a similar 1/2 peel design like on my feeder.  You can see what the big boys use at feederfingers.com

Matt

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[Matt Odin]

whoops... the link is feederfinger.com (no 's').

[Mike Menci]

I am aware of "big boys approach" - great if you managed to overcome this shutter issue !

Mike

[John deGlavina]

Holy!!! Great work with making them smaller. Do you have any spare shutters? Some of mine are bent and stick.

[ice...@gmail.com]

Um Wow? I was considering something like this, but I never had the ability to do it. Can you post a video of it working? 

[Bernd Walter]

On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 07:35:58AM -0700, ice...@gmail.com wrote:
> Um Wow? I was considering something like this, but I never had the ability
> to do it. Can you post a video of it working?
>
> On Friday, July 10, 2020 at 1:12:46 AM UTC-6 odin...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > Hi Mike,
> >
> > So far I have advanced over 1000 (0402) parts thru the feeder at full
> > speed (24V) using both paper and plastic tape, and no parts jump out or
> > flip. I've seen some comments about it on different forums,
> > my hardware supports motor acceleration, so I can play with the firmware on
> > the feeder should this be a problem in the future. Besides most people
> > using original Siemens equipment don't use shutters for 8mm feeders
> > anymore, they switched to a similar 1/2 peel design like on my feeder. You
> > can see what the big boys use at feederfingers.com

Would be cool to retrofit a few of my feeders with such a system.
But I would still like to keep the mostly original.
How did you create that Part?
I suspect FDM printing wouldn't work, right?
Does feederfinger still have an active patent on that idea?
I think this might prohibit sharing your work.
Nonetheless, doing for yourself in fine, even with an active patent.

[Jarosław Karwik]

Hi,

I talked with the seller - I told him that I was not interested as these feeders do not support 2mm pitch.

Got offer to take all 277 feeders ( some are dual lane) for 500$ - this gives less then 2$ for one.

Anybody interested ?  I will not take them as the total shipment to Europe ( 48"x40"40 with 1100lbs ) is almost 1000$ and I am not ready to spend time on them to get them operational again.

[bert shivaan]

Bendi, looks like FDM when you zoom in.

No, their patent expired this year like april maybe.

Jaroslaw, Where are the feeders located?

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[Jarosław Karwik]

Warehouse at :

1700 Victor Hill Road, Duncan, SC 29334

It is all already packed as :

48”L x 40”W x 30”H
1042 LBS (473 kg)
(5 boxes on 1 pallet)

W dniu piątek, 10 lipca 2020 18:06:38 UTC+2 użytkownik cncmachineguy napisał:

Bendi, looks like FDM when you zoom in.

No, their patent expired this year like april maybe.

Jaroslaw, Where are the feeders located?

On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 12:03 PM Jarosław Karwik <jarosla...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,

I talked with the seller - I told him that I was not interested as these feeders do not support 2mm pitch.

Got offer to take all 277 feeders ( some are dual lane) for 500$ - this gives less then 2$ for one.

Anybody interested ?  I will not take them as the total shipment to Europe ( 48"x40"40 with 1100lbs ) is almost 1000$ and I am not ready to spend time on them to get them operational again.

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[Matt Odin]

Hi John,

I've already committed to send the shutters to Mike Menci for the next batch I take apart (this weekend/next week)  Send me a reminder in 4 weeks, that's probably when I'll take another batch apart.

Matt

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[Matt Odin]

I'll post a video once I get the feeders mounted and talking to the machine.

Matt

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[Matt Odin]

1- the main body is 3d printed.  For the prototypes, I'm using ABS, but will switch to Nylon-CarbonFiber for the final version.  I also plan to put sheet metal sides on the feeders

2- why wouldn't it work?  The tape is simply being folded over, most people think it is being cut, but once it gets past a certain point, the tape will just peel off...  As for the wear factor, I haven't run that many parts that would allow me to assess the wear, but keep in mind that I'm not planning to run millions or parts/month, so I think the peeler will last longer than me.

3- According to google patents: https://patents.google.com/patent/US20140318713A1/en  it says that the patent application has been abandoned.  I would have thought that Mydata/Mycronic would of held a patent for their agilis feeders

Matt

Matt

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[Mike Menci]

This was a good chice to follow Matt feeders..

I posted this a while ago..

[Wladimir Nickel]

Hi, is someone in Europe or Germany going to do the same conversion as Matt Odin?

I would queue for some shutters and original electronics. Maybe I can repair some of my own feeders. Thanks.

[John deGlavina]

Has anyone gotten the 3x8 feeders to work with OpenPnp?

[bil...@gmail.com]

I've never had a 3x8 feeder to try.  I imagine it could be made to work with my controller with some firmware changes.

--Bill

[Danh Trinh]

I just bought these feeders from Ebay. Going to take a 1000 mile road trip to pick them up next week.

Bernd - could you tell me the connector pinout for power and control?

Thanks,

Danh

On Monday, July 6, 2020 at 6:01:20 AM UTC-4, Bernd Walter wrote:

On Sun, Jul 05, 2020 at 11:16:58PM -0700, Jaros??aw Karwik wrote:
> I have asked for their types as it is not obvious from pictures.
>
> I have seen only typical Siemens  cables, so I have assumed that they
> might  be compatible - such cable suggests serial communication after all.

They work very well and use the same mounting system.
Most of my feeders are of this style.
You have to hook them up to 30V and send a +30V pulse on one of the
two additional wires, depending on the lane you want to feed.
The 8mm can only do 4mm feeds and they have no shutter.
The wider ones have a rotary encoder switch for multiples of 4mm.
Very simple electronic inside.
They also need more cover tape and occasionally you may even need a
cover tape expansion for a new reel.

>
>
> W dniu poniedzia??ek, 6 lipca 2020 08:12:12 UTC+2 u??ytkownik Mike Menci
> napisa??:
> >
> > This feeders are not compatible with Schultz controller that Bill did for
> > Open PnP - be aware !
> > Mike

>
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[Jarosław Karwik]

Well, they could send them to you - for  about 300...350$

But gasoline in US is cheap - or at least it was few years ago when I was ther3.

[Mike Menci]

For Schultz 2x8mm see here:  https://github.com/bilsef/SchultzController/wiki

The 4 pin PCB in the feeder connector pin-out is:

1. 30V (Brown wire)
2. Ground (White wire)
3. RX (from feeder) (Yellow wire)
4. TX (to feeder) (Green wire)

Connect a 30V power supply to the 2 pin terminal block. Idle feeders draw about 55mA. The maximum current is about 500mA when the shutter solenoid is active, but that will only happen on one feeder at a time. A 2 amp power supply should be adequate for 20 twin feeders.

[Danh Trinh]

Thanks

I think Bernd said these older ones have a simpler interface, just power and pulse signals for lane 1 or 2. With only 4 wires, I should be able to figure it out.

Quote:

" They work very well and use the same mounting system.
Most of my feeders are of this style.
You have to hook them up to 30V and send a +30V pulse on one of the
two additional wires, depending on the lane you want to feed."  

[Christian...@gmx.at]

Hello there,

I am not sure if that is the right place for my question, but I still try it.

Does anybody knows if it is possible to change the pitch of the Siplace Feeders (2/4mm) without serial comminication, just with pressing one or two of the two buttons on the feeders on a special way??

Another question to Matt:

Do you still have parts of your scrapped Siplace feeders??

Best regards

Christian

[Christian...@gmx.at]

Specifically i would need some shutters, some of those spring clamps, boards and some peeling units.

best regards

[Bill Ruckman]

Yes, it is possible to change the pitch using the switches.

First you must not have any alarm (yellow light is off).

Press and hold the green button.

After the shutter closes, press the yellow button one time for 2 mm, two times for 4 mm.

Release the green button.

The yellow light will flash one to two times depending on your selection.

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[Mike Menci]

I prchased some shutter parts from China Search for Siplace ASM part 00309036_S05 or Aliexpress

[Christian...@gmx.at]

Hello Mike,

Thank you for your Answer.

I just tried looking for it, but no one seems to be offering these parts at the moment.

What I would also need are a couple of shutter magnets with the small screwed-on hook at the end.

I have a couple of feeders where this hook is broken.

Does anyone from you have such parts and does this someone also come from Europe?

I live in Austria, shipping from the USA for example would be much more expensive than the parts themselves.

[Christian...@gmx.at]

It works!! Thank you for your help!!

[Mike Menci]

There are two types of this el.mag coils - one have two small screws on top (from tape grove) and 2nd type is with one crew on the oposite side from Shutter arm on picture - so which one are you in need ?

see this listing on ebay: Maxon Motor

You migt better buy some of this and use for spare or function set; Siplace feeder

Mike

[Bill Ruckman]

You can find this hook part on Aliexpress: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001156174267.html

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