Forums or Mailing List?

[Jason von Nieda]

Hi all,

TL;DR: Should we switch from this mailing list to a forum system for OpenPnP discussions?

There has been some discussion in another thread regarding setting up a forum for OpenPnP: https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openpnp/CA%2BQw0jz2e6ycYNz0FqUpAVS55%2BVbzsU%2BD%2BkB3U10ZyYwVpr%2BMg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer

I'd like to take a quick poll and see if there is interest in this. If we decide to move to a forum I will lock and archive the mailing list. The posts will still be available to browse on the web, but all future discussion will move to the forum so that we don't end up with a confusing choice for new users.

So, the question is:

Would you prefer a forum with sub-forums for OpenPnP discussions, or do you want to stick with this mailing list?

Thanks,

Jason

[Lisandro B]

A forum would be nice, but to be honest I think it should be run by somebody else, so it doesn't take you time that is better invested in coding

[Jason von Nieda]

Lisandro,

If we move in that direction I'll definitely reach out for some help running it, but I will want to maintain control of it. I have a responsibility to make sure the project continues, whether any other person is involved or not. 

Jason

On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 8:13 AM 'Lisandro B' via OpenPnP <ope...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

A forum would be nice,  but to be honest I think it should be run by somebody else,  so it doesn't take you time that is better invested in coding

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[Daniel Dumitru]

In my opinion, there where good source of information here. Hoewer it's hard to be retrived even with google search.

Maybe a forum would be better but this requires administration. 

You Jason have to lead development and not making forum maintenance... 

On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 6:13 PM, 'Lisandro B' via OpenPnP <ope...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

A forum would be nice,  but to be honest I think it should be run by somebody else,  so it doesn't take you time that is better invested in coding

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[Graeme Bridge]

I think the forum would allow more depth of discussion. There could be sections for builds in progress, sections for CAD files etc 

As i said earlier I'm happy to admin/mod if you need help

[Anthony Webb]

In general, I dont like forums, but they do have their place.  Great user experience is not synonymous with many of the antiquated PHP based forum packages out there.  One exception IMHO is https://www.discourse.org

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[Daniel Dumitru]

I am amazed how Juha it's posting in no-time links to his internal forum with interesting stuff.

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[Arthur Wolf]

From my ( smoothie ) experience, forums are something some folks like better for user support/help, but they are not adequate at all for dev.

Mailing lists are adequate for both, but support can take a lot of volume so the dev list should be separate ideally.

Definitely don't "move" from here to a forum, you'd kill the project ... offering the option of a forum is good, but I'm pretty sure if it were the only option you'd loose many folks.

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[Jason von Nieda]

Just to clear one point up: If we switch to a forum package I will handle hosting and general admin, and will ask folks to help with moderation.

Jason

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[Jason von Nieda]

Thanks Arthur, this is helpful information. Do you find that people generally use the forum first, and then take to the list if they can't get a question answered? Or does it tend to be kind of random?

Jason

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[Arthur Wolf]

To be blunt : complete newbies use the forum for technical question, that's it. The forum sees no other type of user. In the reprap community, very little dev is done on the forums either.

In Smoothie, dev is done in the mailing lists, irc channel, and G+ community.

i've only seen forums used as a "ask a question and come a few days later see if there is an answer" type thing. For dev i've never seen them be useful.

In Smoothie we've made the choice of having all options : forum, dev list, help list, general irc, dev irc, social media ( mostly g+ )

Works pretty well.

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[Ray Kholodovsky]

I host a discourse forum.  I love discourse.  But now that mandrill (transactional email service) is in bed with Mailchimp and not offering a free plan anymore, the options for email notifications are more limited.  Gmail is possible but has a limit to how many messages can be sent per day, and OpenPNP is fairly popular so I wouldn't risk it. 

I use the google groups interface/ UI most of the time so this is like a forum to me.  I prefer to see the flow this way and respond as a whole than responding to individual emails. 

[Jason von Nieda]

Thanks Arthur, this is very helpful.

I was initially against the idea of having both the mailing list and a forum, but I am coming around to it. To be honest, very little of the discussion on this list (or any OpenPnP channel) is dev; it's almost entirely support and general discussion.

I'm going to let this thread run for another day or two to see what everyone thinks, but at the moment it seems like there is enough interest in a forum to go ahead and set one up in addition to the mailing list.

Jason

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[Richard Sim]

I agree with Arthur on all points (except for G+, hah). I very much like the balance this group has of discussions, and dislike the idea of wading through newbie posts that a forum would attract; it'd change the dynamics of the community. If a forum is deemed necessary, I'd also suggest it be kept strictly to user-support and buildlogs if people choose to put them there (there are better options for those IMO, like hackaday.io - but cross-posting is an option too).

[Graeme Bridge]

I think there can be a forum that is just like this, lets face facts this is a pretty specialist group i dont think there are a huge amount of people looking to building a PnP vs a 3D printer so i doubt there would be a lot of newbs just because its a forum, also all of us were newbs at one point.

My reason for forum is the centralisation of projects, my time is limited and i don't want to have to chase all over the internet to see what members of the group are doing to solve issues or whats the latest hack they have developed spread across multiple sites 

Id be more than happy to stay on google groups if there was a way of having some kind of sub sections so that topics can be sorted into some order

Just my 2 cents

[Anthony Webb]

I think the barrier to entry (ie a PNP machine, need for circuit boards, and a use for one) prohibits the "newbie" traffic people keep referring to.  I doubt the content would be any different than what you find here today, would just be a little more organized.  I definitely dont like the idea of fragmenting conversation though, having yet another place to monitor so I can be sure I'm not missing something is not a good idea.  The idea that switching venue kills the project is a bit of an overstatement, people who have a need will go wherever the action is.  My 2 cents.

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[Lisandro B]

Did somebody  mention that this group can be subdivided by topic? maybe that's a middle point

[Jason von Nieda]

Unfortunately Google Groups doesn't have that option. The only thing you can really do is create additional groups, but I think that would just exacerbate the issue.

Jason

On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 10:42 AM 'Lisandro B' via OpenPnP <ope...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Did somebody  mention that this group can be subdivided by topic? maybe that's a middle point

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[cf]

I think its possible to have subforum in google groups. I am following another group beagleboard that has subforums

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/beagleboard

[Jason von Nieda]

I've just been corrected (thanks cf!), Google Groups does indeed support categories now. Here is an example:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/beagleboard

This basically allows us to create categories and organize the group without having to break it out into separate groups. Not quite the same as a full forum system, but it would make it a lot easier to find what you are looking for, and only look at the things you are interested in.

Do you all think this is a reasonable compromise, or does it not go far enough?

Jason

[Graeme Bridge]

That works for me, thats almost perfect without having to go down a forum route

[Ray Kholodovsky]

That looks nice!

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[Ray Kholodovsky]

I'm very happy with this approach.  Strikes the perfect balance for me as far as UI.

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[Lisandro B]

The only issue may be if this "sub groups" supports moderators, but, on the other hand, I really don't see much "moderating" needs around here :)

[Mike Harrison]

Only skimmed this thread - forum is probably better for long- term access to info, and should definitely need manual approval to avoid spambots etc. I get hundreds of fake registrations a week on mine. For a specialist forum I don' t think it's a major problem to do the approval.

On 25 May 2016 14:59, 'Lisandro B' via OpenPnP <ope...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
> The only issue may be if this  "sub groups" supports moderators,  but,  on the other hand,  I really don't see much "moderating" needs around here :)
>

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[Juha Kuusama]

I require answering a silly question in the registration process (like "PnP macine means pick and ____ machine"). I get maybe one spammer in two months, and deleting the user and posts is only a few mouse clicks. Also, on a specialty forum the users are well behaved. In other words, administration of the forum is not much work at all. It took me a while to have it set up properly, though.

[alex]

I my opinion forum is definitely better!
The main reason is in one word: structure.
Subforums are very nice. Mechanics, electronics, software. You can pin to top some important threads such as FAQ.
Good search, subscriptions to threads, post editing, polls are also really useful.

I Love simple machines ( http://www.simplemachines.org/ ) forum engine it is simple, free, open source, very customizable and user friendly for admins and users.

[Andrew Frazer]

Theres plus and minus to all..

Forums build good communitys, ( relationship between people ) but Mailing lists are often useful as well, 

Wikis and blogs have their place as well, I shoudl probalby start a blog ( like Glen is doing ) for my build project as well..    Then you can just amke reference to it.

No one method is better than the other, but i'd think the google grous with sub-forums woudl be the go right now.

[Paul Jones]

Mailing list for me.

 

Paul.

 

From: ope...@googlegroups.com [mailto:ope...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jason von Nieda
Sent: Thursday, 26 May 2016 1:08 AM
To: ope...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [OpenPnP] Forums or Mailing List?

 

Hi all,

 

TL;DR: Should we switch from this mailing list to a forum system for OpenPnP discussions?

 

There has been some discussion in another thread regarding setting up a forum for OpenPnP: https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openpnp/CA%2BQw0jz2e6ycYNz0FqUpAVS55%2BVbzsU%2BD%2BkB3U10ZyYwVpr%2BMg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer

 

I'd like to take a quick poll and see if there is interest in this. If we decide to move to a forum I will lock and archive the mailing list. The posts will still be available to browse on the web, but all future discussion will move to the forum so that we don't end up with a confusing choice for new users.

 

So, the question is:

 

Would you prefer a forum with sub-forums for OpenPnP discussions, or do you want to stick with this mailing list?

 

Thanks,

Jason

 

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[Jacob Christ]

I like the mailing list.  It comes to me and I can ignore as I see fit.  If I have to go to a forum, I'll never go.

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[Arthur Wolf]

On Thu, May 26, 2016 at 9:37 AM, Jacob Christ <ja...@pontech.com> wrote:

I like the mailing list.  It comes to me and I can ignore as I see fit.  If I have to go to a forum, I'll never go.

+1

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[Daniel Dumitru]

I like better forum since you may sort subjects and maybe will be indexed better by search engines.

On the other hand it's needed moderation and more important storage/hosting space.

BR,

DAniel

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