Node Red UI crashing not loading on RPI 3 when using RS485

[Dannaz Perth]

Hello people.

Firstly happy new years :) Hope you all have a awesome 2018 ?

I Wondered if anyone has ever experienced or heard of the issue I'm having.

In a nut shell, I have got a raspberry pi 3B. running node red. communicating via Modbus RS485 to various devices.

I'm reading 12 addresses, they are each 2 x length 32float. so in total I'm reading 44 addresses.

I'm using Modbus Contrib. each of the 12  read nodes is reading the 2 x 16 bit addresses. 

I have the Pi set to automatically boot node red from power up. I do a boot up, the Pi seems to be OK, it allows me to do basic things with no lag. I try to load node red web page and it either crashes or is slower than erosion, if it does load I cannot use it as everything takes minutes to do.I have tried 3 browsers on the PI. Fire fox, Chrome to name a few. Makes no difference!

This issue is the same if I use a RS485 to USB dongle or if I change the Uart settings and activate serial port, as per these instructions https://www.abelectronics.co.uk/kb/article/20/raspberry-pi-serial-port-usage

I have got 6 RPI's and every one is doing the same thing. I have decent Evo memory cards slotted in each PI. The only way I can really do anything on the flow is to disable the UART in boot/config =0.

Then reboot. open the browser make my changes then set the uart port back to 1. As this solution works is not good if I want to test the flow as I make changes.

The flows on a PC work seemlesly with no delay. I have had a good look on forums and cannot find anyone else with this issue. :(

I'm using the Linksprite RS485 shields. Ive tried it with different brands of PLC's and Modbus sensors, makes no difference.

Any advice would be great, I appreciate there is hundreds of things to factor, so if you require details or screen shots just let me know and ill sort them out.

If anyone knows of a basic no thrills browser, something I can use just for node red, that be great too.

Thanks in advance.

Enjoy your holidays

Dan

[Colin Law]

Before opening the browser run, in a terminal

top

look at the %CPU column and see if the processor is being highly used.

If you are using MQTT run

mosquitto_sub -t '#'

to make sure you have not got an MQTT loop.

Are you running the browser on the pi or on a PC connected to the pi? If on the pi what happens if you run it (the browser) on the PC?

Colin

Colin

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[Mark Setrem]

I'd also check which versions of nodejs node-red and the serial-port you have.

I had something similar with older versions of nodejs / node-red & serial port in the past.

[Dannaz Perth]

Hello Lads.

CPU runs between 40-60% on average. doesn't seem to increase when I load the web browser up.

I have HDMI in the PI so viewing directly on the unit itself. However if I VNC or teamview into it, it doesn't make any difference.
I have done the Mqtt loopback test. I am using MQTT, to a private server. Again I have connected to different MQTT servers and it makes no difference.

In all fairness. even without MQTT nodes deployed on the flow it still has the same issue.

I did the update-nodejs-and-npm command a couple of months ago. I haven't done a recent update.

Ill export the log and post on here, maybe you can see an issue?

If I start fresh on a pi, for example. I load Neewbs, install Raspian, Load node red. install Modbus contrib. it is the same. Then any further updates from this [point makes no difference.

Ill export some logs and flows for you to look at

Thanks for the support lads.

Dan

[Colin Law]

I did not mean you to try viewing the browser with VNC or Teamviewer, as then the browser is still running on the pi. I meant you to view it from browser in the PC by accessing http://<ip_address_of_pi>:1880

Colin

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[Dave C-J]

40 - 60 % does sound quite high... What happens if you don't use the 485 nodes ? 

If you run the command     top    at a command line - what does it show as using most of that 40% ?

(and also try remote browser as Colin suggests). 

[Dannaz Perth]

Thanks Lads.

I understand what you mean now. Use PC to log onto Pi server via local network. Thus not actually using the Pi's Compute power to run the UI.
I will try that later and get back to you.

what i did last night was.

I wiped the SSD.
Reloaded Raspian only, didnt do the Neewbs thing
sudo Update
Sudo upgrade
Followed the Link sprite instructions again to activate UART GPIO
Installed Node red Contrib Modbus
Installed Node red Dashboard
there was a command line Core_freq=250.   I did this and it did make a noticeable bit of difference, but not enough to consider the issue solved.
CPU was still running around 40-65% maximum

ill try what Colin said and let you know later. Sorry for the delay.

Dan




On Monday, 1 January 2018 19:47:41 UTC+8, Dannaz Perth wrote:

[Colin Law]

If you are running on a pi (or other debian based system such as Ubuntu) you should use the recommended method for installing/updating node red [1].  Run the bash <(curl command described there and that should ensure you have valid versions of everything installed.

Colin

[1] https://nodered.org/docs/hardware/raspberrypi

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[Dannaz Perth]

HI Lads.

I logged in the Server through my PC. and it was unbelievably fast.
I have never moved through flows that fast. I copied and pasted the master flow 3 times to different flow pages and it was fine.
Also noticed that the CPU was between 1-5% thats with about 60 modbus address being polled.

So the Pi is working tremendously. the issue is elsewhere, Web browser ? Graphic settings.

Thanks for helping chaps, i hope we can figure this out.
Please advise any other checks.

Kind regards

On Monday, 1 January 2018 19:47:41 UTC+8, Dannaz Perth wrote:

[Dannaz Perth]

Hi Collin.
I did the bash command initially. I used that same web page for instructions.
Please read below. we have made some progress. basically, access through the network from the PC. the speed is so fast.

Read my comments below.

Regards

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[Colin Law]

Are you using charts on your dashboard?

Colin

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[Csongor Varga]

Hi Dannah,

I am using a much less extensive Modbus setup, 2 slaves, 1 read 5 floats, other 2 words. I had not issues in the past. I just upgraded my Node.js to 6.12.3 contrib-modbus to 3.0.0 and all seems just fine. I did not make any other serial related settings to the original Pi3 install. So it is probably not the serial... 

but I guess you realized it by now.

[Dannaz Perth]

No Charts mate.
Just the flows. all data is pushed to Mqtt server, i visualize it here.

Dan

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[Dannaz Perth]

Hi Mate.

The devices work OK when deployed and i don't need to explore around the desktop.
Like i explained on my recent posts, i logged in through the PC, thus not utilizing the Pi's graphic processing and the flows were mega fast. I was clicking and a clacking everything with no delays.
So the serial is OK. It seems to be more graphic, browser based?

Any help would be awesome chaps.

[Colin Law]

It sounds as if the pi is just not up to the job of running the browser.  I only use them as headless servers with no interface, so I can't comment on this.

Colin

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[Andy]

What's on the dashboard?  I've done a lot of testing running browsers on the Pi directly, and the one thing that always kills CPU is animations.  One liquid level gauge will suck 30%+ CPU and every additional will add to it.  If you turn off the animations CPU usage is nil.  I settled on running chromium, kweb works well for most things as well.

[Colin Law]

Does it consume the processor even if you only send the gauge values every ten seconds, for example?

Colin

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[Dannaz Perth]

Hi mate
Im not using guages, charts, anyrhing like that. Im just using the flows.
The data is pushed to a cloud where it is visulized / animated.

Even so, ill try turn animation off if it helps.

Thank you

[Dannaz Perth]

Hi collin.

Im only using the flows, not the guages,charts, dashboard.

Eventually i use them as headless.
My.issue is when i want to dial into them remotely i cannot do anything due to speed, unless i turn uart off.

Cheers mate

[Dave C-J]

What is the RS485 driver / hardware in use here. Seems odd/bad that it's having such an effect.

[Dannaz Perth]

Hello Dave.

RS485 hardware is the linksprite V2. I followed there instructions to set it up on the PI.
As explained above. dialing in to the pi from PC it works awesome.

Soon as i attempt to view node red on the PI using the HDMI, or even remotely through team view or VNC, it is painfully slow and unusable.
It is the same if i use a RS485 USB dongle plugged into the PI usb port.

How do i turn animations off ?

 Kind regards

[Andy]

Colin - yes, even if you just send it no data and the wave just slowly churns.  The amount of CPU (and GPU) consumed varies by browser/OS.  Chromium and kweb on Pi3 running Jesse will come screeching to a halt with 3 level gauges even if you just send one value to set them initially.  It's the slow churn of the wave animation that does it.  If you turn off the wave animation you can watch the CPU drop back to nearly zero.  Chrome and Chromium on Winders and Ubuntu act exactly the same, but I think Firefox has figured something out and results differ.  For example, FF beta on Android uses almost zero CPU for the animations.  This Linux PC was just updated to FF 58.0b13 yesterday and I just checked and it, too, uses next to no CPU for these animations now.  Last week it wouldn't even render the gauge wave correctly.  SVG animations kill CPU for most OS/browser combos I've tested.  I haven't tested Edge/IE.

If you keep sending the same value to it, as long as the transition isn't animated and it's not completely redrawing each time should result in no CPU usage.  I have a test setup here where I'm reading an ADC on the Pi 4 times a second and dumping it to the level gauge directly.  It will take a good chunk of CPU 4 times a second if I'm winging the pot wired to the ADC around to force changes, but with the wave animation turned off it's barely a blip because it's a short animation to raise the wave.  Changing the number or speed of the waves makes very little difference to CPU usage.

Here's a simple flow to test with.  Send it the 50 first, check CPU, then inject the other thing to turn off the animation and watch your CPU drop.

[{"id":"a43cba60.030bd","type":"inject","z":"873d8041.1463b","name":"send 50","topic":"","payload":"50","payloadType":"num","repeat":"","crontab":"","once":false,"x":655.5,"y":159,"wires":[["e092f5e.22b6508"]]},{"id":"e092f5e.22b6508","type":"ui_gauge","z":"873d8041.1463b","name":"","group":"e5a1f89b.c11318","order":0,"width":"5","height":"5","gtype":"wave","title":"Test Gauge","label":"units","format":"{{value}}","min":0,"max":"100","colors":["#00b500","#e6e600","#ca3838"],"seg1":"","seg2":"","x":888.5,"y":196,"wires":[]},{"id":"be03fbd9.e60538","type":"inject","z":"873d8041.1463b","name":"","topic":"","payload":"true","payloadType":"bool","repeat":"","crontab":"","once":false,"x":471.5,"y":239,"wires":[["6cfeef9.b8e621"]]},{"id":"6cfeef9.b8e621","type":"function","z":"873d8041.1463b","name":"stop animation","func":"node.send({\n    ui_control:{\n        \"options\": {\n        \"waveAnimate\": false\n        }\n    }\n}); ","outputs":1,"noerr":0,"x":666.5,"y":237,"wires":[["e092f5e.22b6508"]]},{"id":"e5a1f89b.c11318","type":"ui_group","z":"","name":"gauge test","tab":"e619b4e1.8b3bf","disp":false,"width":"13"},{"id":"e619b4e1.8b3bf","type":"ui_tab","z":"","name":"gauge test","icon":"dashboard"}]

[Dannaz Perth]

Hello Andy.

How you turning Animation off.   As i said, i'm not using gauges at all. Not even deployed a dashboard.
If possible can you provide some advise on my issue based on not using a dashboard gauges.

Thanks

[Dave C-J]

Adrian

good spot - thanks for the insight.

Dannaz, how many readings a second are you doing ? Any chance you can share your flow so we can see what else may be going on ? (Yes local Chrome browser isn't great - I prefer the Firefox ESR one on Pi... (but not sure how available it still is) - but neither are great running locally - though usually not too bad on a Pi3 as it is quad core after all. If you stop Node-RED entirely (node-red-stop) - is the browsing experience (of the web in general) any good for you ?

[Colin Law]

Dannaz, do you mean you are just using the node-red flow editor and am
not looking at the ui display at all?

Colin

> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/node-red/13861fcd-883e-41cf-824a-9667efb356dc%40googlegroups.com.

[Andy]

If no dashboard then the animation stuff doesn't affect you at all.  Are you bringing up the flow editor in the browser directly on the Pi or are you running the browser on another PC and connecting over the network?

[Dannaz Perth]

Correct mate.

Just wiring nodes together. no UI dashboard being used, Ever!

As per my other messages, i'm pushing the data to a cloud server using Mqtt.

Dan 

[Dannaz Perth]

Hi Andy.

Short answer to this question is, it doesn't matter how often i poll the Modbus, IE readings. Im currently reading 12 variables about 10 second intervals. 

If i change that to every hour it makes absolutely no difference at all, I have above explained that using the pi in headless mode it is fast as hell.

Soon as i view via the HDMI or through team-viewer,VNC it is slow as a snail.

Thanks for your help.

[Dannaz Perth]

Sorry Andy. I only answered half your questions!. 

There is no noticeable difference if i have node red running or stopped. Chromian browser is still the same, identical performance.

The pi is currently running at a temp of 59c. It is summer time in Perth, so ambient temperature in this room is about 30c. 

Kind regards

On Sunday, 7 January 2018 02:42:38 UTC+8, Andy wrote:

[Colin Law]

On 7 January 2018 at 06:51, Dannaz Perth <danieljame...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Sorry Andy. I only answered half your questions!.
> There is no noticeable difference if i have node red running or stopped.
> Chromian browser is still the same, identical performance.
> The pi is currently running at a temp of 59c. It is summer time in Perth, so
> ambient temperature in this room is about 30c.

Do you mean that if you stop node-red and use the browser to browse to
a normal website that it is still horrendously slow? I presume that
is what you meant by node red running or stopped.

Colin

> Kind regards
>
>
>
>
> On Sunday, 7 January 2018 02:42:38 UTC+8, Andy wrote:
>>
>> If no dashboard then the animation stuff doesn't affect you at all. Are
>> you bringing up the flow editor in the browser directly on the Pi or are you
>> running the browser on another PC and connecting over the network?
>>
>> On Saturday, January 6, 2018 at 2:22:23 PM UTC+6, Dave C-J wrote:
>>>
>>> Adrian
>>>
>>> good spot - thanks for the insight.
>>>
>>> Dannaz, how many readings a second are you doing ? Any chance you can
>>> share your flow so we can see what else may be going on ? (Yes local Chrome
>>> browser isn't great - I prefer the Firefox ESR one on Pi... (but not sure
>>> how available it still is) - but neither are great running locally - though
>>> usually not too bad on a Pi3 as it is quad core after all. If you stop
>>> Node-RED entirely (node-red-stop) - is the browsing experience (of the web
>>> in general) any good for you ?
>

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[Dave C-J]

Ok - so have we ascertained it's not actually a Node-RED problem ? 

More - browsing is slow on a Pi problem ?

How fast is your SD card ? Did you try Firefox ESR etc....

[Dannaz Perth]

HI Lads.

OK. Just not to confuse things. Browsing the internet node red on or node red off is not horrendously slow. Trying to navigate the wiring page on node red is slow/stalls.
When on the normal web it slow but i would presume speeds equivalent to the Pis capabilities.

SD card is Samsung Pro 32. its the next one up from the EVO.
I tried fire fox a month ago and had no luck. I have downloaded and run every available Browser compatible with the PI. There is a website with the top 5 listed.
Fire fox doesnt crash but it just hangs on the flow page, you can see the nodes palette on the side but the actual contents of the flow don't load. Chromian has been the most successful WB.
Currently looking at installing windows IOT. see if this works better.
If it isnt node red issue could you recommend another google group to inquire within.

Thanks chaps

[Colin Law]

You do seem to have a knack of confusing us, or me at least. Have you
got a large number nodes?

Is anybody here actually using the browser on a pi to run the editor?

Colin

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[cflurin]

I quickly went through this thread but I didn't see, which node and node-red version you are running.

Could you post the log after starting "node-red-start".

[Dannaz Perth]

Ha, sorry mate.
I'm getting confused my self.
From a fresh install of node red i have the default palette of nodes. Additional to this i have the Modbus-Contrib a Float node. I also have the dashboard nodes, however i "don't" use them.
My palette is pretty minimal in terms of selection of nodes. I use the Pi's browser to program the PI. When deployed i sometimes dial in through teamviewer to edit make changes to the flow.

Kind regards

[Dannaz Perth]

0.17.5

Cheers

[cflurin]

Hi,

I mean the log e.g.

pi@rpi5:~ $ node-red-start
Start Node-RED
...
8 Jan 13:14:43 - [info]
Welcome to Node-RED
===================
8 Jan 13:14:43 - [info] Node-RED version: v0.17.5
8 Jan 13:14:43 - [info] Node.js  version: v6.12.3
8 Jan 13:14:43 - [info] Linux 4.9.59-v7+ arm LE
...

[Dannaz Perth]

HI Mate.

[info] Node-RED version: v0.17.5
[info] Node.js  version: v8.9.4

[info] Linux 4.9.59-v7+ arm LE

Noticed your still on 6.12.3 ?

Dan

[cflurin]

It seems you have the latest versions.

node 8.9.4 is ok, I have installed node v8.9.4 on a second pi3 and it works without any issues.

[Dannaz Perth]

Hmm...

I'm beginning to think it is the Contrib-Modbus pack. The Flow browser on the PI comes to a halt or best case scenario slow as hell if i poll more than 30 registers. thats 15 pairs 4 bytes, using the Contrib pack.
I have just used the Modbus serial in-out package and polled the same amount of registers and it was almost normal speed in terms of loading the Chromium browser and navigating around the flow editor page.

Any thoughts on this?

Dan

[Dave C-J]

aha - finally... :-) have been thinking this was most odd. But afraid I'm not a modbus person so no idea what that pack is doing. - Hopefully one of the other modbus folk around here can now chime in.

[Csongor Varga]

I had issues (not performance) with the contrib modbus and I raised an issue on github for this repository (about a year ago). The author was very helpful and responsive. Give it a try. I am reading far less registers than you and I did not notice any problems.

I am assuming you are using the queue functionality. Also what the author said in one of his video that it is better to have multiple modbus reads reading 1 register at a time if they are apart rather than having a read of 100s of registers at once. I am reading an energy meter which have the registers apart with many unused registers in between. For example I wanted to get registers 1, 7 and 25. Instead of reading 25 registers from 1, I am reading 1, 7 and 25 with a separate modbus read, all queued. This is was recommended. I am not sure if this applies to your scenario. The package takes care of the queueing mechanism and you can also see if requests are piling up in the queue. Do you have a chance to go higher speed on the modbus?

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