Tube database?

[SWISSNIXIE - Jonathan F.]

Hi all,

I would like to present one of my ideas/dreams. Please notice, that this topic is not about how to do it, its just a general question of interest.


Nowadays nixie tube names are easily found by google, but there are alot of collectors that have many tubes, and other places where only a few tubes are listed etc. Sadly there is no "master" list of tubes, where you can find all (yet) known types.

Imagine a website where you can find only a list of nixie tubes, and their common paramters like size, characters and shape. The page would have a advanced search filter like you know from mouser or digikey shops when looking for parts. The list would conain each known parameter of a tube, in some cases maybe only its name and manufacturer, in other cases name,manufacturer,base,shape,size,characters.
The database would only provide text data about the tubes - no images or datasheets - if a collector owns a particular tube, a link could be added to see this tube on the collectors page. This would ensure that visitors still would visit the collectors pages instead of looking up tube images on the master database. So every collector could freely design his own website.

To make something like this come alive, it would need the help of people from this group.

So, what do you think? Any opinions about this? Any interest?

[Dekatron42]

A link to datasheets found on Frank Philipses huge database would also be good: https://frank.pocnet.net/sheetsZ.html (some Nixies on that page in particular).

/Martin

[Nicholas Stock]

That sounds like a good resource (if it doesn't already exist). What kind of help are you looking for?

Nick

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[Mac Doktor]

On Apr 21, 2019, at 2:48 PM, SWISSNIXIE - Jonathan F. <jfre...@gmail.com> wrote:

Nowadays nixie tube names are easily found by google, but there are alot of collectors that have many tubes, and other places where only a few tubes are listed etc. Sadly there is no "master" list of tubes, where you can find all (yet) known types.

This is exactly my problem. I only collect symbolic tubes, not numeric. In addition, I'm not interested in simple plus, minus, and/or numeral 1 tubes so I'd like to be able to filter them out as well. I already have all the former Soviet symbol tubes and I don't know what to search for next on eBay.

The database would only provide text data about the tubes - no images or datasheets - if a collector owns a particular tube, a link could be added to see this tube on the collectors page. This would ensure that visitors still would visit the collectors pages instead of looking up tube images on the master database. So every collector could freely design his own website.

Exactly. Links to existing sites would have to be a main feature.

On a related note, one of my nightmares is that sites like http://www.tube-tester.com or www.jb-electronics.de might disappear someday due to unforeseen circumstances. It would be terrible to lose all of that information and the enormous effort put into compiling it. Alan Franzman's site only exists on Archive.org now:

https://web.archive.org/web/20111222052741/http://mysite.verizon.net/res0fab4/files/nixdat.htm

Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
"The Mac Doctor"

"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe: attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion... beams...in the dark in the Tannhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time...like tears in the rain." — Roy Batty, Blade Runner

[jb-electronics]

Dear Terry,

jb-electronics.de will be around for the forseeable future, I can promise that :) But I see your point.

Dieter and myself set up a nixie tube database back in 2011 on http://nixie-museum.org/ which I still own but it is no longer functional. I have extensive knowledge in database programming and webdesign, but I presently do not have the time to develop the database.

Maybe enybody can list some features in this thread they would like to see? I will make a note of them and hopefully I will have some time for this project this summer.

Best wishes
Jens

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[SWISSNIXIE - Jonathan F.]

Hi Jens,

Nice to hear! I already made a concept on the project, i will upload it tommorow. Im also very familiar with large and even complex sql databases since this is part of my work.

But such a project will only become great if there are people who are willing to help, mostly to either provide data or enter data.

As terry wrote, the archived list also could be used and converted.

[alex nolan]

Jonathan,

That's rather exciting. I'd request that the website would be easily backed up by any user who wanted to, but downloading an archive or something.

[Nicholas Stock]

Jonathan, if i can help with data entry let me know.

Nick

Sent from my iPhone

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[martin martin]

I will help too.   Did you try the site in Canada 

https://www.sphere.bc.ca/

They have doc for most tubes also

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[Nick]

Nice idea - it'd be good if it could be done vis Google Groups, like the use of the shared Google Drive for the library section.

Is there a free Google product that'll do what you want?

Nick

[Mac Doktor]

On Apr 22, 2019, at 1:27 PM, Nick <gerbilp...@gmail.com> wrote:

Nice idea - it'd be good if it could be done vis Google Groups, like the use of the shared Google Drive for the library section.

One of the main goals of this project should be to create a reference tool for the community that won't unexpectedly disappear or become inaccessible one day. I've seen that happen too many times. Given the checkered history of group hosting, I'm extremely leery of creating archives using the host's built-in features and storage unless there is an offline backup of everything. Just in case.

I get what you're saying. I don't have a problem with using "free" solutions from Google et al, such as hosting it online, as long as the whole thing is safely backed up offline in multiple locations.

I may sound paranoid but I've seen too much information (photos, pdfs, videos etc.) along with all the effort that went into creating and uploading it vanish overnight more than once. In the case of my own document and software archives, I store everything on external RAID1 drives. Each of them is in turn backed up to two additional external drives, one of which is stored off-site. I also keep bootable clones of my Mac and Windows system volumes. In the event of an internal drive failure I can run off of an external SSD.

I've been saved by this system more than once.

Is there a free Google product that'll do what you want?

Given the potential complexity of this type of database some free variant of SQL would be a logical choice for authoring it. We have members with the skills and motivation to develop it. The finished database would then be accessible to all on the Web in some form. If Google or someone else has a free solution then we should definitely take a close look at it.

Just my $0.02. Feel free to pile on.

[SWISSNIXIE - Jonathan F.]

I'm afraid google doesn't provide such a solution.

The data would have to be stored in a database. MySQL has bad performance, but for this tube database which contains little data, it should be just fine. Interfacing with a web-page is very easy and is done millions of times on the web. A "own" solution has the benefits that it can be fully customized to the needs of the user, is independand and can be backed up/ migrated easily. A SQL dump can be importet to any SQL Database in case the server/hosting would have to shut down.

[Terry Kennedy]

On Tuesday, April 23, 2019 at 1:47:53 AM UTC-4, SWISSNIXIE - Jonathan F. wrote:

A "own" solution has the benefits that it can be fully customized to the needs of the user, is independand and can be backed up/ migrated easily. A SQL dump can be importet to any SQL Database in case the server/hosting would have to shut down.

I'd be glad to host this on one of my company's web servers, which has a 10GbE link to multiple Internet providers (I think we peer with something like 250 providers). The host is FreeBSD / Apache / mySQL / PHP and command line / [S]FTP access would be available. Feel free to contact me off-list if this is of interest.

Note that this is just the hosting - someone else needs to develop / maintain the database and web app.

[Nick]

I'm well aware of the risks of data loss - that's why the group is backed up multiple ways.

The main reason for using a Google integrated solution is convenience - the hosting is there and so is access control - e.g. the library section is on Google Drive but "knows" about Google Groups; the access rights granted in neonixie-l automatically carry of to control access to the library section.

No disrespect, but anyone can go bust or withdraw a service, not just Google. Bearing in mind that they've supported free groups pretty much since they were founded, they're unlikely to go away any time soon. However, even if they did, we have multiple mirrors...

Cheers

Nick

[John Rehwinkel]

If it's stored as a table (spreadsheet style) or a database, it should be easy enough to export the data in a simple format such as CSV.  Backing up the CSV all over the place isn't difficult, and it could be imported into a variety of spreadsheet or database programs, or a search/mining utility could be written simply enough.

I used to do this sort of thing all the time in XML, but XML is probably overkill for this kind of data.

- John

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[Tyler Bourne]

I would support this idea.  I can't do much on the functional side of things but I have skills with Photoshop and can make any site look nice.

[Bill Notfaded]

I like your website and tube pictures... It's been a great resource for me. This is you right?

http://www.swissnixie.com

I assumed it was by your handle. I love your rate Nixie pics of stuff like the German elevator tubes! Mega props brother!

Bill

[Tyler Bourne]

That site does look pretty nice.  It would be nice for a database to have pictures of the tubes.  It can help when trying to identify a tube with the markings missing.

[Bill Notfaded]

I'm a CIS guy so if I wanted to do on the cheap I would just get it hosted somewhere cheap and use the lamp stack. All open source.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LAMP_(software_bundle)

The only expense would be the hosting fee to run a small VM.

Bill

[Mac Doktor]

Interesting. Would it still be possible to access the database with SQL on another platform?

I've worked with some non-SQL RDBMSs but I'm a Mac-only guy. Well, I do play games in Windows 10...

[Bill Notfaded]

SQL is SQL.  The query language is what it is... The differences are some of the interfaces and management tools.  There are advantages to using MS SQL server if you're used to that.  I use SQL server for lots of stuff too because many applications use it.  The same is true for Oracle but for the most part we've tried to move away from Oracle because it's very expensive but if you're running an Enterprise database a large company depends on... Sometimes it's worth the expense.  Macs are really Unix now under the covers...  Ever since Steve jobs came back to Apple many years ago MacOS has been based on the mach kernel which came from NeXT if anyone remembers that?  It's basically Unix.  This is around the same time Apple switched from Motorola to Intel processors.  I would virtualize the whole thing with either open source stuff or even windows on some hypervisor.  When you get something from a hosting provider these days it's usually always a virtual machine or you run your own VM on their hypervisor in the cloud.  They'll do as much or little for you.  They even have webservers you can setup without knowing anything about what's going on underneath.  Many people just use WordPress and start their site like a blog almost then it grows into more later with options for selling stuff and payment processing with a cart.  A big company HQ for that kind of thing here in Phoenix area is GoDaddy.

Bill

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[Mac Doktor]

> On Apr 24, 2019, at 6:20 PM, Bill Notfaded <notf...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> SQL is SQL. The query language is what it is...

Well, you guys have me buried! I'm looking forward to this project.

[Nick]

I have sites hosted on GoDaddy and find them very slow.

I also have sites on Digital Ocean (DO) who I find both cheap and extremely fast. I'm moving all my sites across. DO is more "raw" in that you generally don't get cpanel, i.e. just raw Linux plus whatever you want to run on it, but it's very quick even for the lowest virtual server ("droplet") options. GoDaddy is painful by comparison. DO is for techies...

If you want cpanel etc. at a good price and very very fast, try SiteGround, who are again far faster than GoDaddy (IMHO).

SiteGround also support LetsEncrypt whereas GoDaddy make it extremely tricky as they still try to sell you expensive SSL certs .

Nick

[Bill Notfaded]

Don't get me wrong I really wasn't suggesting GoDaddy but it's local here and someone people have heard of before.  Lol it always makes me think of Danika Patrick.

Bill

On Wed, Apr 24, 2019, 8:24 PM Nick <gerbilp...@gmail.com> wrote:

I have sites hosted on GoDaddy and find them very slow.

I also have sites on Digital Ocean (DO) who I find both cheap and extremely fast. I'm moving all my sites across. DO is more "raw" in that you generally don't get cpanel, i.e. just raw Linux plus whatever you want to run on it, but it's very quick even for the lowest virtual server ("droplet") options. GoDaddy is painful by comparison. DO is for techies...

If you want cpanel etc. at a good price and very very fast, try SiteGround, who are again far faster than GoDaddy (IMHO).

Nick

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[Joe Croft]

Dreamhost is a great place, I have used them for years. They have a lot of options for building web sites. As for databases I'll take them in the order od Postgresql, Mysql or if I don't need the power of a server (90% case) sqlite (www.sqlite3.org). The latter is very easy to use from within perl or python.

In all caes of a database, the issue ifs rarely the data (though if its complex you do have to figure out lay it out), but in the entry of the data. Nobody thinks about that until it's too late.

Not to start a flamewar, but mssql server, like oracle, is way over powered and has the other side feature of being 90% complient on it's sql syntax. The other 10% you get to learn out the Microsoft way.

-joe

[Bill Notfaded]

I pretty much concur with Joe.  Postgres is more open source for Enterprise.  For a little website MySQL would be fine... You won't need things postgres has like clustering etc.

Also the database won't be complex or large enough to really require any serious normalization.  I'd make the primary key something like the model number of the tube and just be done with it.  The hosting part is more about choice and price.

Also if you make it a VM, or even a container, it'll be really easy to change hosting provider later if you want to change... or end up not liking them.

Bill

[Mac Doktor]

Before going any further, what shall we call this project? "NixieBase" is the first thing that pops into my mind. Any better suggestions? Does GoogleGroups have a poll feature?

On Apr 25, 2019, at 7:16 AM, Bill Notfaded <notf...@gmail.com> wrote:

Also the database won't be complex or large enough to really require any serious normalization.  I'd make the primary key something like the model number of the tube and just be done with it.

Exactly. Jonathan and I had a private conversation before he started this thread. In his words:

...we would need to implement a phonetic search or look up table. Take example "ZM 1020" tube. If you ask 10 people, you would probably get "ZM1020, ZM-1020, ZM 1020, ZM10-20, ZM 10 20" as an input which would hide some searches.

Not to mention allowing lowercase letters for the convenience of those who can't touch-type.

There's a free eBay search app called "AuctionSieve" (works on all platforms—check it out). You perform an ordinary eBay search and then refine the results by double-clicking words in auction headings and adding them to a "Catch Word" list or a "Trash Word" list. It's just like refining a search on eBay itself but without all the typing and reloading. Lightning fast by comparison, almost painless.

This might be the solution. Start with a basic query based on the model number and then let the user narrow the results down.

Perhaps there are other, better ways I'm unfamiliar with (I know just enough to be dangerous). I'm hoping to learn a great deal more by the time "NixieBase" goes live.

On Apr 25, 2019, at 6:57 AM, Joe Croft <cro...@gmail.com> wrote:

Not to start a flamewar, but mssql server, like oracle, is way over powered and has the other side feature of being 90% complient on it's sql syntax. The other 10% you get to learn out the Microsoft way.

I had to work with that house of cards VisualFoxPro once. MicroSoft shafted me. The less said the better...

Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
"The Mac Doctor"

Nately: "...it's better to die on your feet, than to live on your knees."
Old Man: "You have it backwards: it is better to live on your feet, than to die on your knees."—Catch-22

[martin martin]

I vote for NixieBase . It needs a logo.  I suggest the original Burroughs front view.  Maybe even animated?

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[Mac Doktor]

On Apr 25, 2019, at 9:29 PM, martin martin <mcve...@gmail.com> wrote:

I vote for NixieBase . It needs a logo.  I suggest the original Burroughs front view.  Maybe even animated?

I can vectorize a bitmapped image if anyone has something suitable.

[Bill Notfaded]

Makes me think "All your base are belong to us"... And that's some serious retro stuff when you go there...

"All your base are belong to us" was a popular Internet meme based on a broken English phrase found in the opening cutscene of the 1992 Mega Drive port of the 1989 arcade video game Zero Wing. The quote comes from the European release of the game, featuring poor English translations of the original Japanese version.

All your "Nixiebase are belong to us"... Whoa that's some heavy geek stuff right there!

[Bill Notfaded]

nixiebase works...

[Nathan Diniz]

We should have an animated B-7971 display showing the motto and some unique font that shows the logo. It might be a bit much, but it is an idea.

[严泽远]

Any help you need for Chinese Nixie tubes data please let me know, I have almost all types of Chinese Nixie tubes in my stock, and I have original datasheets for them, also can translate them to English as well.

Yan.

[SWISSNIXIE - Jonathan F.]

Happy to hear all this response and interest! I wasn't expecting that. Now i'm feeling like i really want to do this project and start to make a concept on how to store the data :) And yes, Nixiebase is a very nice name!

[robin bussell]

On 26/04/2019 09:16, Nathan Diniz wrote:
> We should have an animated B-7971 display showing the motto and some unique font that shows the logo. It might be a bit much, but it is an idea.
>

I can offer up the services of @NixieBot if anyone wants to make some
animated GIF B7971 banners, it now has a secret HTTP interface, so you
don't need to faff about with twitter, and you get higher quality
results too :) I can also arrange for suitable lighting conditions when
time comes for the final rendering.

Email me off list for the low down on using it, I don't really want to
put the URL anywhere publicly searchable and risk what used to be called
a slashdotting as the server is just a little old raspberry pi :)

Cheers,
Robin.

[Mac Doktor]

> On Apr 26, 2019, at 1:11 PM, SWISSNIXIE - Jonathan F. <jfre...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Happy to hear all this response and interest! I wasn't expecting that. Now i'm feeling like i really want to do this project and start to make a concept on how to store the data :) And yes, Nixiebase is a very nice name!

"NixieBase" (capital B). It looks fancier.

We could casually refer to it as "TheNB". Alliteration makes it roll off the tongue nicely and those not bitten by the bug won't know what we're talking about. 8D

> On Apr 26, 2019, at 1:44 PM, robin bussell <ro...@cqr-ltd.com> wrote:
>
> I don't really want to put the URL anywhere publicly searchable and risk what used to be called a slashdotting as the server is just a little old raspberry pi :)

Now there's an expression I haven't heard in a long time.


"By the end of Chuck Statler's 'Rock Videos' of Devo we agreed that even if Devo did not take the stage it was still the best concert any of us had ever attended." --Kim Thayil (Soundgarden), 1995

[Bill Notfaded]

I'm still looking for one of you power PCB's Robin. This is notfaded1 from your project.

Bill

[Bill Notfaded]

I kinda like all lower case... But I'm a xnix guy so...